Happier but confused

S

sunshinestate

New member
A while back I posted that I had a wife and a gf (I am also a woman), but I was feeling much more compatible with my gf and not happy in my home life, especially as a daily parent to my son with my wife.

Most people commented that it seemed like I wanted to leave/get a divorce. Some time went by and I came to the same conclusion. So I left and now live with my gf and called it off with my wife (upon her own insistence that I make a decision). I still see her and our son a couple times a week and we've arranged a good schedule for that. Things have been overall amicable between us and we are still close, but we have not been romantically involved for a couple months now. Overall my life has been better and I am happier. But I'm also confused because I still feel like I want to be involved with my ex-wife (we call each other "ex" but have not done any divorce paperwork as of yet for various reasons, including a big financial one at the moment).

I still have love for her and find myself attracted to her, while also being very much in love with my gf. It was the living situation that wasn't working for me, as well as having my wife be my primary partner (I found that the hierarchy wasn't working for me either). I've asked my wife what she can handle relationship-wise, and she said she doesn't know, but is open to perhaps becoming involved again. GF is not ok with this, at least, not now. GF has never liked my wife, although she is civil. And that's fine, I've accepted they're not going to be friends and limit their interaction as best I can. But I would like GF to be ok with me continuing to explore my relationship with my ex. We are going through the Jealousy Workbook page by page together, and she's open to being poly, but I just don't think she's open to me being poly with my ex. I am most definitely not into the idea of a "veto" and want my freedom to pursue whomever.

Anyone been in this situation before or can offer any advice or perspectives/insight? I want to continue being honest, and give my GF time, but I'm really missing my ex too...
 
Hi sunshinestate,

The main problem here seems to be that your girlfriend doesn't want you to get (re-)involved with your ex. How strong are your girlfriend's feelings on the matter? Would she be willing to grit her teeth and tolerate your relationship with your ex? Does she have any compelling reason for you and your ex to stay at arm's length, or is it all just an extension of her not liking your ex in general? Is there any specific reason why she doesn't like your ex?

I want to say go ahead and get (re-)involved with your ex; after all, you were involved with her previously and I presume your girlfriend didn't argue with that. But maybe things have changed now that it's the second time around? You may need to sit down with your girlfriend and discuss this.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi sunshinestate - it sounds like the living situation was your primary reasoning for the split with your ex. It makes sense that now that you're living apart, things would begin clicking between you two again. It's tough to walk away from someone you have history with, but it's even tougher to let a good thing go. You GF sounds genuinely supportive of your happiness and is willing to respect the co-parenting situation with your ex, just not a romantic relationship. Since you and your ex were so unhappy towards the end, it's understandable why your GF would be adamantly against a reconciliation (trying to protect you from heartache). You can't help how you feel, so sitting down with your ex and your GF (separately, probably) to express your feelings would be best.

I hope things work out for you all.
 
Your gf was okay with getting involved with you while you were living with your ex, so I think she's being unfair now. It sounds like she wants "primary" status - good for you for being clear about not wanting a hierarchy.

Ultimately, it's your call. You have a long history with the ex and it's your life - you don't need gf's permission to live your life as you see fit. If gf is saying that she's okay with poly but won't accept that you want a new type of relationship with your ex, I would not believe that she's actually okay with poly at all.

I read the following on Breathemusic's blog earlier today and I think you and gf would benefit from using this approach. It's a brilliant way to word how one will choose for themselves how to create the poly life they want, respectfully allow space for a partner's concerns, but yet letting an insecure or jealous partner do the inner work on themselves to handle it (we can't do it all for them!):

"I DO expect him to actually spend some time eventually really thinking about exactly WHAT about [my] dating others . . . bothers him. Then if we know it's just insecurities, I'll provide whatever level of assurances and love that helps him but ultimately still do my thing and he will know he needs to handle his emotions. But if he can actually identify something freaking useful that CAN be changed, we'll discuss that too. And if he continues to just say "it bothers me but I don't really know why" then it will just go into that bucket where I say "I'm sorry that you're struggling with this, I love you and nothing will change that, but I'm making these plans." I already know that he'll be accepting of that even if he doesn't like it. "​
That is from: www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=332704&postcount=91
 
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So, there seems to be two issues sort of tangled up together here:

1. Your relationship with your wife was not good, because of the living situation. You changed the living situation, and now your relationship with your wife is improving. Your confusion seems to be, because you thought that splitting up would be the 'end' of a romantic relationship between you and your wife - and instead, it appears to simply have been a restructuring of it?

Stuff to consider here is, can you and your wife have a romantic relationship and not live together and not co-parent in the same house? It seems like the answer is a very probable YES! Just because two people are romantically together doesn't mean they have to live together, or have their lives entangled, etc. Maybe you only saw 2 options: 1. Be together as a married couple or 2. divorce. But maybe now you're seeing a third option: 3. Be together romantically, in a way that is comfortable and healthy for this relationship. Maybe it's time to have a "how does this relationship look for us going forward with a new structure?" talk with your wife, instead of a "divorce" talk?

2. Your girlfriend doesn't want you to be with your wife.

Whether or not her reasons are understandable, or however strong her feelings are, there is one thing that stuck out in your post:

I am most definitely not into the idea of a "veto" and want my freedom to pursue whomever.
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Given that this is the case, you need to TAKE that freedom. You have the freedom, at the moment, but you may have not made it clear to your gf

"This is what I can offer in terms of a relationship: I will support you in feeling less jealous, but you do NOT get a say in who else I am romantically involved with".

Because the issue is not

"How bad does g/f feel, and therefore that weighs in on whether you are with wife or not?"

The issue is that you have decided, for you, that your freedom to date whomever you please is not negotiable. You will listen to, and support partners if they are jealous - but one partner does not get to say you should not, or cannot, date another.

You need to make that clear to g/f, that you breaking up with wife *for her* is not on the table. That right now, you are in a transition time of relationship with wife, and you don't know what that might look like, but that if things end romantically, FULLY with wife, it will be because YOU decide, NOT because g/f decides. And make it clear that the same applies for any other poly relationships you might get into.

That way, g/f knows she is not having any 'veto' power in your life, now or ever, and she can decide if she wants to keep dating you on those terms.

I hope this helped untangle things. Just don't give g/f the impression she has more choice in your life than she has. You say you 'want' the freedom to date whomever, but really, you already HAVE that freedom - it's just a matter of exercising it and setting clear boundaries to your partners about what they do and dont have a say in.

Maybe you will end up being the hinge between two g/fs, if you and your wife divorce but stay as g/f and current g/f decides she is OK moving forward knowing you will keep dating other (wife / ex-wife / g/f) on your terms.
 
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kdt26417 said:
...How strong are your girlfriend's feelings on the matter? Would she be willing to grit her teeth and tolerate your relationship with your ex? Does she have any compelling reason for you and your ex to stay at arm's length, or is it all just an extension of her not liking your ex in general? Is there any specific reason why she doesn't like your ex?

...you were involved with her previously and I presume your girlfriend didn't argue with that. But maybe things have changed now that it's the second time around?
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Her feelings seem very strong to me. She's gotten mad at me sometimes when I even bring up my ex's name, which I try not to do anymore. She may be willing to grit her teeth and bear it, but I do stand the risk of losing her which would be awful. I do think she and I are more compatible, but I also have to be able to live my life the way I want to. I think her compelling reason for not wanting my ex and I to become romantically involved again is because she's scared I'll go back to her. She also feels threatened by our history together and our connection. That's what she really needs to work on and get passed. She doesn't like my ex mainly because their personalities are polar opposite...and while my ex can sometimes act a little controlling and socially abrasive, she is still a kind person at heart and does her best.

When I met my gf, I told her I wasn't going to leave my wife and things were best kept casual between us. Then we started falling deeply in love and everything changed. After a lot of time and therapy, I realized I just wasn't happy in my home life (and hadn't been for years) and things became very strained between my wife and I. So I came to the conclusion that I did, in fact, need to leave. I'm not sure why my gf thinks I want to jump back into that. I'm much happier living with her, and nothing changed about the old situation... I just still have feelings for my ex.
 
nycindie said:
Your gf was okay with getting involved with you while you were living with your ex, so I think she's being unfair now. It sounds like she wants "primary" status - good for you for being clear about not wanting a hierarchy.

Ultimately, it's your call. You have a long history with the ex and it's your life - you don't need gf's permission to live your life as you see fit. If gf is saying that she's okay with poly but won't accept that you want a new type of relationship with your ex, I would not believe that she's actually okay with poly at all.
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Thanks for your input...I feel she's being unfair as well. She went from not having nearly as much as my wife (we started off with 1 sleepover a week), to having way more than my wife (I now live with her!), and she's still not happy.

I feel like I'm stuck once again with having to make a choice between them. Before I chose my gf, but now I feel like if I choose to carry on with my wife, I'm going to lose the gf. While GF does seem open-minded in theory, I think I'm involved with two mono people at heart :(
 
I am glad things are better, but sorry it's still some struggle.

I do think she and I are more compatible, but I also have to be able to live my life the way I want to.
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Yup.

I think her compelling reason for not wanting my ex and I to become romantically involved again is because she's scared I'll go back to her. She also feels threatened by our history together and our connection. That's what she really needs to work on and get passed.
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Is she willing to do that work? Have you asked?

What is is YOU want and need here? Are you able to articulate it? To me it sounds like you want to be the hinge in a V, with GF and ex-wife as your partners. If so? Clearly lay that out offer on the table. That is you responsibility. To clearly state what it is you would like and then invite them to participate. Or if it is still emerging, clearly state that to the partners -- that this is still transition and not the final thing yet.

If they choose to participate in this network, they don't have to like the other partner, but they have to be at least basic polite and respect that they are partner too. Out of respect for you.

If they cannot do that? They could choose NOT to participate in this network any more because they are not up for more transition time. It's that simple.

You sound like you are still in transition, and the former V is still trying to change into what the NEW thing will finally be. Perhaps passing through some iterations as the dust settles.

  • (Wife/Coparent + You the hinge cohabitating) + GF

  • Ex wife/Coparent + (you the hinge + GF cohabitating)

Maybe you are next heading to

  • Coparent/GF + you the hinge + GF all living in their own apartments.

Have you considered trying that variation on?

  • GF: She can see you are not stopping dating her. Just needing some space of you own. And leaving her some space to work out her issues on her own time. It's like she wants you to do/not do stuff so she doesn't have to feel yucky when she could learn to take responsibility for her emotional management and life choices.

  • Ex-Wife: You and her can think about dating again without the UGH living together brought. Deal with the stuff this changing marriage thing is bringing without GF baggage on top.

  • You: You can have space that is YOUR sanctuary and not "living with wife feeling ugh" or "living with GF feeling ugh." The hinge person needs to REST. You cannot be expected to do it all the emotional management for everybody "because you are the one that gets 2 partners." It can feel like you are the bone in a tug-o-war if your partners want you to do their processing FOR them. You have your OWN process that sometimes needs you attention and doing it in your own space might help.

Perhaps maintaining clear cut physical boundaries will help you maintain more clear cut emotional boundaries as well.

Every person deals with their OWN emotional baggage. That is fair. They cannot be looking for you to carry it all just because you are the hinge.

It is one thing for you to be supportive and to encourage them to pack light, and lose the stuff in their baggage that weighs them down so carrying it is easier on them.

It's another thing to be everyone else's maid/porter and get bogged down yourself! Packing the bags, unpacking the bags, sorting the bags, carrying the bags -- that's emotionally exhausting. Say NO. Everyone deals with their own bag.

If what you want is to be a hinge in a poly V with Coparent + GF, that's the offer on the table.

Coparent can say "ok" or "no thanks, not up for that."

GF can say "ok" or "no thanks, not up for that."

It is not fair for them to agree to participate / continue to participate in something of their own choosing, and then bitch at you later because they did not like the choice they made. They could choose to work through their baggage, choose to bow out, or you could choose to end it with them.

Not because you don't like them but because their behavior is unacceptable and they won't change it when you ask politely.

Keep things simple and direct.

I feel like I'm stuck once again with having to make a choice between them. Before I chose my gf, but now I feel like if I choose to carry on with my wife, I'm going to lose the gf. While GF does seem open-minded in theory, I think I'm involved with two mono people at heart
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You didn't choose your GF over the wife. You chose to move out. For YOUR well being.

If you want to work something out with your wife? You could choose that. For YOU. (And Wife has to choose same for it to actually work. But that part of it is Wife's choice.)

Wife can choose to stay in the network or not be in it any more. That is HER choice.

GF can choose to stay in the network or not be in it any more. That is HER choice.

I wonder if you have gotten too used to carrying everyone bags for them and don't know how to NOT carry them? I don't know if you are still seeing therapist but if you are... maybe talk about cleaning up emotional boundaries? Could that help?

Galagirl
 
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Boom, I give advice without even being present! Thanks NYCindie! LOL. Actually, I'm just glad that people find my rants on my journal useful.

It does sound like the g/f is just concerned that you'll change your mind and want to go back to your ex, which is a valid concern since so many people do it. Maybe it would help her if she better understood that you being interested in still having a relationship with your ex doesn't mean that you want to go back to how things were SPECIFICALLY because you've already been there, done that, it didn't work. You already know that you don't want to live with your ex, so you have no desire to go back to that. But she accepted you being with you ex when she wasn't your ex, so she should be able to accept that now.

The info that was provided from one of my entries definitely applies, she needs to identify more specifically what the issue is, and then you can talk through it to see how that works. But it sounds like you also need to have a boundaries and expectations discussion. You're poly, and if being poly means the freedom to choose your partners, she needs to accept that (of course, she can then choose to be with you or not based on your choices). But it sounds like you also need to have a conversation about what you living with her now means for your relationship. She clearly saw that as being a major jump up the relationship escalator and assumed that implied certain things. Sounds like you probably haven't made all of those same assumptions. I think it's just time for an overall relationship check in!
 
I can't help thinking that going to live with your other lover immediately after a breakup (which it was essentially supposed to be) makes the dynamics a little weird. I understand there is probably strong financial reasoning of course. But if you had your own place for a few months at least, then
1) you would have more space to sort yourself out and grieve
2) the relationship with your gf changes less abruptly, your gf would get much less of a wibe "she left her for me, we are a couple now"
3) you would be able to better enjoy your new independence and personal freedom
4) you are not going to push your gf to fit the expectations you had about your live-in person (I don't have hints from your writing that you are doing this, but I think this is a hard-to-resist tendency)
Just to consider.
 
I know the whole "moving out-moving in" thing happened quickly, but yes...it was a financial necessity. I am the bread winner, and I am financially supporting my wife and child for the most part (80%). So in order to let them stay in our house, I had to move out but I couldn't afford a place on my own so I moved in with GF who was more than happy to have me do so. And I'm happy living with her as well.

I am right now assisting with GF purchasing a house, although only her name will be on it. And I am buying a different house for my wife, who wants to sell our house so we can have a cheaper mortgage. I could nearly afford both mortgages (both new houses) on my own because they're cheap, although GF is ok affording her mortgage by herself (but won't have to with me in the picture). The house I'm buying with/for my wife has a separate mother-in-law apartment on the property. So that opens up the possibility for me to have my own space. If everything works out (we're in the thick of house buying right now), there are options galore.

Oh, and the two houses...they're 10 blocks apart.
 
I had similar feelings two years ago, when my husband, Arlo, and I separated. I had been dating outside the marriage for a while, but I didn't leave him to be with anyone else specifically. It was slow uncoupling after 15 years together. Like you, I felt we had a better relationship after he moved out, our time together seemed more precious, sex was more passionate. It was like dating again, and I hoped maybe we could maintain a less-entangled relationship.

During that first year of separation, if a partner had tried to tell me I wasn't allowed to have an intimate relationship with Arlo, I would have rebelled. Eventually, over a year or so, we weaned ourselves off each other. He didn't want to be part-time, and I didn't want him full-time.

I can see the wisdom in making a little space between your relationships, but sometimes poly people don't get to, because they already have other relationships in progress. You're newly living with a partner, might be best to tend to her. Maybe you can revisit dating exwife later. On the other hand, of course you still have feelings for the woman you married. It might be best to let whatever still exists between you and exwife turn into what it wants, though you might lose your girlfriend in the process. Either way--the first few year of a marital break-up are tough, but you'll get through. Hang in there!
 
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Re (from sunshinestate):
"The house I'm buying with/for my wife has a separate mother-in-law apartment on the property. So that opens up the possibility for me to have my own space."
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Would your girlfriend be accepting of that arrangement?
 
Hmmmm Is she going to be ok with you bringing other dating prospects into your shared space? Is that something you did before?
 
I think if I were your wife, I would also feel reluctant to get re-involved with you until you resolve this with your girlfriend. There is the potential she could get hurt again, and she may not want to take that chance.
 
There are many emotionally intimate relationships that should probably not become physically intimate. Nothing "wrong" with it... but the deep emotional bond can easily begin to erode, & be just a shell when the initial sexual thrill wanes.

There are many deeply loving relationships that should probably not live together. And there are many people who are great roommates & should never pile more intimacy on that, or the escalator leads quickly to the Peter principle.

And it sounds a bit as though you are bribing your girlfriend into acquiescing to your continued independence. While your personal financial situation is solid enough to consider underwriting TWO houses, I can see much long-term risk in this unless everyone involved is totally on the same page here -- you could find yourself out thousands of dollars (illiquid or simply gone) AND on the hook for much more as well. That doesn't strike me as a sound basis for any "loving" relationship, much less multiples.
 
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