Help! Coping with his Anxiety is difficult!

L

Leetah

Member
I know a number of people here suffer from anxiety and self esteem issues due to their life experiences and that they and their partners have worked out ways to cope with the various things that trigger their anxiety. I really need help knowing how to deal with someone with hair trigger anxiety which can pop up unexpectedly and very often with little explanation during or after the melt down.

So, I knew Ray had anxiety and depression problems, that his basic mantra is "I suck", but it is hard to know what to do when even a teenager's negative comment can cause him to withdraw, cry, and sleep for a day or more, and an actual conflict with my husband Tam or I!? whew.

What makes things trickier is that Tam has an aversion to anything passive aggressive or emotionally manipulative and even though Ray is very quiet about his breakdowns, trying to self sooth by withdrawing, his behavior can trigger Tam's family of origin issues. Then I am trying to reassure them both in turns, when I am the one who is not always great at emotional sensitivity!

Tam and I now have a standard warning "I think I broke Ray" which starts a tentative and anxious discussion of what to do to find out if Ray is actually unhappy, how to get him to discuss it and why Tam should not take it too personally.

Ray feels that once he is more settled and self supporting he will be less down on himself and so less likely to melt down.

Any advice on how to help Ray open up about his triggers and how to manage day to day life with someone who can be so fragile that even knowing that his fragility is worrying those who care about him makes things worse?

Leetah
 
First, is Ray in therapy of any type? I seriously hope so, because his issues sound like more than he can manage alone, even with friendship, support, and love from the people around him. He needs a professional to help him learn coping skills, including how to defuse those "I suck" triggers.

I have "I suck" anxiety/depression because of past emotional abuse, as well as simply because my brain has wonky chemistry. Sometimes it's difficult for me to know whether I'm feeling anxious because chemistry, or because something specific has triggered me.

I've learned to first, try to identify which type of anxiety I'm experiencing. If it's the chemical kind, which means there's no specific reason or focus for the anxiety, I just say, "Okay, I'm feeling anxious, there isn't anything *making* me anxious, I just need to ride it out. I can't help this, so it doesn't mean I suck. It just means I have an illness." (And yes, sometimes I do say it exactly that way, sometimes out loud if no one else is here.)

If it's bad, I'll go into my room and lie down, especially if Alt and Country are home (I don't like them seeing me having an anxiety attack). If it's at night, I'll go to bed earlier than usual, because I know by morning, I'll be okay. Sometimes, especially if I need to short-circuit the spiral because I have things to get done, I'll either go to Hubby for a hug if he's here, or I'll call Woody. Sometimes I even do both. I just tell them, "I'm feeling anxious. I don't know why. I just need a hug/to talk/to hear your voice so I can shake it off."

If it's trauma-related, that's easier in some ways, because I can at least identify that it's trauma-related, if not identify the specific trigger. At those times, I try to shift my thoughts on my own first. Like, "Okay, I know it isn't real that I screwed up Woody's life by oversharing on FetLife, I'm anxious, but he told me himself that it isn't a problem." Depending on how bad the anxiety is, and how early in the spiral I catch it, I might be able to defuse it on my own. If not, I will go to Hubby or Woody (whichever one is involved, if one is; otherwise, whichever one's available) and say, "I'm having an anxiety attack. I need a reality check" and then explain the problem.

I have explained to them at calm times that I am fully aware that, with the focus-specific anxiety attacks, whatever is going through my head is almost certainly the product of the ill and/or damaged parts of my brain, and are NOT reality, but that when I have an anxiety or panic attack, the stuff going through my head *feels* very real and sometimes I'm not able to convince myself it isn't. So they know that when I say "reality check," they need to listen carefully to what I tell them next and refute it, and talk it through with me until I'm back on track.

Sometimes, as with the panic attack I had last week, it's so severe that I can't even put words together. At those times, I have to go to Hubby, because obviously calling Woody won't work if I can't speak, and one that severe is beyond my ability to get through on my own. Hubby knows that if I come to him crying and shaking, I'm at a nonverbal point, and he just puts his arms around me--though he's prepared for the possibility of me pushing him away, because sometimes I've been PTSD-triggered and can't handle being touched--and speaks in a very calm, low voice until I calm down enough to tell him what's going on.

So that's all from the perspective of *being* the person with anxiety, but hopefully you see some things in there that Hubby and Woody do for me, that you and Tam might be able to do for Ray.
 
Thanks KC! This is just the sort of perspective I need.

Ray has generally refused to tell me details of his irrational thoughts. He just holes up until he has them under control, which is hard to have to stand by helplessly watching. I will ask him what it would take for him to feel safe articulating them to me, if he thinks it could help.

Once he is working he knows he has to get right back into therapy and onto meds. We're hoping that will be before the month is out. He already attends our couples' therapist with us but that is hardly the same.


I have been impressed with your efforts to keep your anxiety from holding you back. I think you are very brave to keep facing it down. When Ray breaks I try to remember things you and others have said help the anxiety.

Leetah
 
To be honest, you sound like you are burning out when Ray and Tam could attend to their issues themselves.

Just because you are the hinge, it is not your job to do EVERYONE's emotional management for them. You might want to think about setting some personal boundaries. Like...

"On your management plan? Ok. I will try not help. Not on your management plan? You are just freaking AT me? Call your doctor."

"I am sorry. I am feeling anxious. I am not a good person to ask for help right now. I need to do my own self care first. Call the next person on your list."​

Here's some example plans

http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Health Anxiety Module 9.pdf

http://www.agingkingcounty.org/improve-health-care/docs/CT_Anxiety-Mgmt-Flags_PHR.pdf

RAY or TAM can Google others and write their management plans and ask you to serve.

For example, you could sign up to be listed on the first plan on pg 8 as a (good person to call for pleasant or fun activities) or a (person to call for meal help so diet stays on track).

Only agree to sign up for jobs you actually are ok doing.

RAY

It sounds like you are waiting a month for Ray to get to a doctor. So... let him be. He's working his show as best he can right now.

it is hard to know what to do when even a teenager's negative comment can cause him to withdraw, cry, and sleep for a day or more, and an actual conflict with my husband Tam or I!? whew.
Click to expand...

Could ask Ray if he's willing to draw up a management plan and TELL you what he wants done in this transition month. Dim the lights, bring him his special blanket, leave him alone, make him tea, etc. Then you don't have to be guessing, and ultimately HE is owning his management. Then just do what his list says. If he doesn't make a list? Leave him be. Maybe he prefers to make the plan with a doctor rather than make one and have doctor check it out. He is allowed to have his preferences for how to work his show.

TAM

Tam has an aversion to anything passive aggressive or emotionally manipulative and even though Ray is very quiet about his breakdowns, trying to self sooth by withdrawing, his behavior can trigger Tam's family of origin issues. Then I am trying to reassure them both in turns, when I am the one who is not always great at emotional sensitivity!
Click to expand...

Tam could also make a plan for HIS anxiety/trigger management. Then all you have to do is knock out what is on his plan that you signed up for.

Or decline to serve on these plans, and let them figure out who they want to list.

You need to do your OWN management and not be burning out.


YOU

I have this trigger:

  • Feeling helpless to unable to help someone I love

I think you might have it too.

If it helps you with YOUR anxiety to know what Ray's intentions are? Ask him when he's calm, not in the heat of the moment in the middle of a panic attack. Or reassure your own self with what you know already if he's already told you. You could run it through your head:

What is Ray's plan for doing about his self care?
  • Is he taking personal responsibility and owning his condition? Seeing a doctor? (Yes, waiting month to get to a doc appt)
  • Taking his meds? (not seen doc yet, intends to ____ regarding any meds.)
  • Has written a draft management plan? ( You could ask if he's willing to do this now)
  • Takes personal responsibility after a melt down and his brain comes "back" from whatever freak out? (yes/no?)
  • He apologizes for his behavior and cleans up his own messes? (yes/no)
  • Am I doing my own self care and my own management plan before I attempt to help others with theirs? (yes/no?)
  • What is my job right now on Ray's plan? (list your jobs)
  • Am I doing them? (yes/no)
  • Is this a plan in progress? Yes.
  • We doing what we can? Yes.
  • Do I have to feel comfortable at all times to be SAFE? (No. It might not feel fun, but there's no actual danger. I can be a little uncomfortable in the short term so I can be comfortable in the long term. We will get there.)

You have your own coping to learn to do. Focus on that. Let each of your partners learn theirs. Everyone holds their own baggage.

Ray has generally refused to tell me details of his irrational thoughts. He just holes up until he has them under control, which is hard to have to stand by helplessly watching.
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That is your issue, not Ray's. I get that it is hard to see someone you care about struggling, but don't pile more on Ray's plate in the moment by asking him to also be reassuring YOU while Ray is trying to get it back together.

Reassure self. Or ask elsewhere for reassurance. Comfort in, kvetch out. Do your own anxiety management.

Asking Ray to relive his horrible so YOU can understand it right then and there? May be too much for him to be doing. My husband sometimes wants me to explain it right then and it just makes my anxiety attack worse. Because it's like he's trying to keep me in that stuck brain place rather than help me move it forward out of the stuck brain place. Ugh.

I tell him to ask me LATER or read a book! We have them in the house.

If he's not able to help me empty my anxiety bucket because he is anxious and he has to go empty his own bucket first? I want him to go away and do his own first! Don't come bringing (anxious me) his bucket load to empty for him. I do not want more work in that moment. I want helping hands to lighten MY load, not more load to do.

Do YOUR OWN list for reassuring YOU and cranking down your own anxiety. Stick your management plan somewhere easily found.

My management plan is stuck to the back of the calendar and both my kid and husband know where to find it and do the jobs. Things like check my blood sugar, make sure I have been sleeping right, limit noise/light stimulus, turn the phone off and let the machine get it. Ask me if I need to take my meds or if I plan to ride it out. Then hold me accountable to what I said.

My eldest kid works it better than husband does because kid has no triggers from family of origin to trip up. We ARE the family of origin. She can do "Help be my cane, do not try to be my brain." HELP me own it, and wait patiently for my slow brain to make the plan and execute it. She helps ask me clarifying yes/no questions so I can think my way out of the anxiety storm.

My spouse sometimes is great and other times trips his OWN anxiety triggers and starts his anxiety witter. Then instead of helping me with mine? He's making it so I have to help him first (when I am already struggling to think straight and running on empty) before I get any practical aid out of him.

He also sometimes wants me to leap right to xanax (the last resort thing on my management plan) so he doesn't have to endure his anxiety while watching me go down my management plan list. But I am not going to take a xanax so HE can feel better. That's makes no sense!

It's a problem area we are working on and for now I just deal with it myself and get my plan out or send the kid to get it out. Then I just go down the list.

So keep in mind how you are adding/taking away from Ray's load.

Do your OWN management first before you try to help others.

Galagirl
 
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Leetah said:
Ray has generally refused to tell me details of his irrational thoughts. He just holes up until he has them under control, which is hard to have to stand by helplessly watching. I will ask him what it would take for him to feel safe articulating them to me, if he thinks it could help.
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When my anxiety acts up, space to myself is what I need. I've lived with my weird anxious brain for a long time, I can calm myself pretty well. Sometimes it takes five minutes, sometimes five hours, but I can get there. But if anyone tries to help? I do exactly what GalaGirl mentioned and take on their stress too.

When Andy gets upset (not anxiety but depression in his case) he wants someone there but quiet. Present but not trying to talk about it.

I think asking Ray what he needs to feel comfortable talking to you is great - but also know that he may need to not talk in those moments.

And good luck with the therapy and meds... I hope he can find a solution that makes his life a little easier. I hate to be all "better living through chemistry" ;) but a low dose ssri antidepressant has done more for my anxiety than years of talk therapy ever did.
 
Hello Leetah, shade and sweet water to you,
I have a close friend that has anxiety and depression, and get's panick attack's. She can take dramatic turn's quickly. The "I suck" seems to be a common theme. Sometimes there are trigger's, sometimes nothing seems to cause it. Counseling is always a good place to start, but in my friend's case professional help was tried and no longer used.
I have found multiple solutions that work with her to bring her back from an episode, also i have found that if something has worked in the past it does not mean it will work in the future. Some thing's that work include playing music, holding her, supporting her, removing her from the situation at hand, holding her, or as simple as just getting her talking, and just listening. Also, there are time's there is nothing I can do to help. I am not always there when she goes into an attack. There are times that all I can do is my best to offer my support and to make sure she is safe. It has taken year's for her to open up to me and start to discuss some of the reason's she is this way. Time and understanding is what got me to the point where she opened up.
It has not been a easy journey for me and my S/O at times. We do our best to support each other when one feel's hurt over our friend. We have learned that the most important thing is keep our own mental health in a good place. It sound's inconsiderate to prioritize ourselves and manage our feeling's fist, but if we are swept into a bad place, it affect's much more. It can get to the point we cannot help her in such a situation. There have been times we have had to take a "vacation" from her, Our friend has coping mechanism's of her own, and has always been there afterwords. In the end the truth is as much as I want and try to help, She has to want it for it to have affect, and she has to take the step's to get the help beyond what I can give her.
 
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Leetah said:
Thanks KC! This is just the sort of perspective I need.

Ray has generally refused to tell me details of his irrational thoughts. He just holes up until he has them under control, which is hard to have to stand by helplessly watching. I will ask him what it would take for him to feel safe articulating them to me, if he thinks it could help.

Once he is working he knows he has to get right back into therapy and onto meds. We're hoping that will be before the month is out. He already attends our couples' therapist with us but that is hardly the same.

I have been impressed with your efforts to keep your anxiety from holding you back. I think you are very brave to keep facing it down. When Ray breaks I try to remember things you and others have said help the anxiety.

Leetah
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm glad something I said was useful! I tend to be stubborn as hell, so while I recognize that some things about myself are beyond my control (anxiety, depression, PTSD, fibromyalgia) I work my ass off so those things don't prevent me from living my life. They prevent me from holding a job; that's one of the things I can't help. But that's only a matter of schedules. I can't work scheduled hours when I don't know from one day to the next whether I'll be able to move without excruciating pain, or whether I'll be able to cope with being confronted by a supervisor or customer, etc. Otherwise, sometimes I need to make allowances or accommodations, but I fight to live my life.

As for Ray not talking about his irrational thoughts... He might not be able to articulate them. I can't always. As I said, sometimes when I'm having an anxiety or panic attack, I lose some of my language ability. I have issues with expressive and receptive language anyway. Sometimes I can't put words together in a way that makes sense when I'm talking, and that's compounded by some of the emotional abuse I experienced, since some of the abuse was caused by me trying to explain something or trying to problem-solve with someone who refused to accept responsibility for their actions and blamed me for everything, and who hated hearing me talk because I used "big words" that made them feel stupid. Or who got impatient with me and ranted at me to "hurry up and say it, you're wasting my time" any time I tried to speak. And I have to concentrate to be able to process things I hear; if I'm not focusing on someone who's speaking, my brain reads it as complete gibberish. For me, at least, it takes a lot of energy and concentration to be able to have a coherent discussion, and when I'm using a lot of energy to fight off panic, depression, etc., I don't have the energy available to cope with the language issues. (Writing is easier than speaking because it uses a different part of my brain than speaking, I don't have someone waiting for an immediate response so it takes away the pressure of having to "hurry up", and I can take time to figure out how to phrase things so I don't piss anyone off; and reading is easier than listening because it's visual, not auditory.)

I'm not saying that's Ray's problem, but I've found in dealing with Alt and others I know who have anxiety and/or depression that it can be very difficult to verbalize what's going on in one's head at those times, even if one doesn't have language issues to begin with. On the other hand, Ray might recognize that his thoughts are irrational and doesn't want to talk about them because he doesn't want to be judged or questioned for having irrational thoughts. He might find it easier to deal with on his own than bringing it up with you when the likelihood--as he might perceive it, anyway--is that all you can do is tell him what he already knows, which is that it's irrational.

In addition, although this is a gross generalization, I think it's often harder for men to admit "weakness" and vulnerability than it is for women. It seems that a lot of men have been taught to hide their emotions and deal with it on their own rather than expressing themselves and reaching out for help and support. Needing help is seen by some as "unmanly," even though I think that's complete bullshit. But, without knowing Ray's past, he might have been taught that he should handle his own shit without help, and that might also contribute to his unwillingness or inability to talk to you when he's struggling.

The best thing you can do for him is listen to what he says he needs from you at those times. The best thing you can do for Tam is accept that this is hard for him. And the best thing you can do for yourself, in my opinion, is try to get out of the middle. As GalaGirl said, you aren't responsible for managing Ray's anxiety or Tam's issues. You're there to support them, but it's their job to manage themselves.
 
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Hi Leetah,

Sorry you are having a rough go of it with Ray's anxiety issues and their indirect fallout. I don't have any great tips for you. My anxiety issues are managed by medication (Zyprexa), and there's only so much even the medication can do. Sometimes, if I'm having an anxiety attack (of some kind -- it can manifest as profound anger), Snowbunny will talk to me via email and that sometimes helps (even if all it does is help her understand better). She will email me even if we are both in the house. She will not enter my bedroom (where I am) at such times. She knows I need space and privacy.

I don't know what will help Ray with his anxiety. I guess you will have to talk to him about it sometime when he is not upset.

Sorry that's all I can offer for now. If I think of more ideas later I'll let you know.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you all for your good advice and insights. (Sun bless you Drgnfly)

I am probably, well..certainly, more of a fixer and cheerer upper than is good for any of those involved. I forget this easily when someone is very upset. I need to go back to reminding myself of this regularly. I just always have the feeling that there must be a misunderstanding somewhere and if I can find it then all will be better. I know this is not always the case so I do need to work on letting go of my own anxious thoughts and feelings.

I suspect that Ray would agree that he cannot articulate his thoughts when they become especially disordered and that he needs some space to sort them out, or let them pass. I know that I am most likely expecting the level of emotional intimacy with Ray that has taken decades with Tam. Again, I need to remind myself that some things have to be let be and not pushed and pulled to suit my impatient self.

Once Ray has a steady income then yet another therapist will be found, bringing our household total to 4, or maybe 5 as our teenager seems to need some outside help. Whee! Modern emotional life!

Thanks again all

Leetah
 
I agree with you that when Ray has an anxiety attack, patience is needed, and he needs space and time to get a hold of himself. Trying to solve his problem as quickly as possible is what Snowbunny would call "blowing sunshine up his ass." Doesn't help much in other words.

Jeezh, you do have a lot of therapists. Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing. It's just that most people aren't so dedicated to getting the therapy they need. You guys rock!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
It does make us sound kind of messed up though. One of our kids see a psychiatrist for medication and a psycholgist for therapy, our couples therapy convinced my husband to get treatment for his PTSD and so on.

Leetah
 
I apologize if this sounds harsh in anyway... But "messed up"?? If everyone in your family had a chronic illness, like diabetes or cancer or anything like that, would you say it sounded "messed up" if everyone had to see a doctor or specialist?

Mental illnesses are ILLNESSES. There shouldn't be any more shame, or any more fear of seeming "messed up" for seeking treatment for them than there is for seeking chemotherapy, or insulin and dietary changes, or whatever you need to be healthy.

Sorry, the stigma about mental health issues and the way some people treat those who get help is one of my major berserk buttons.
 
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