Help. I can't share my wife (One Penis Policy)

[Phisch]

I have always considered myself polyamorous. I didn't realize there was such a thing, since society teaches differently, until finally delving into the notion. I am currently involved in a monogamous relationship, in which I brought up the idea of polyamory fairly early. I wasn't really interested in her being with other men, but felt since I wanted to be with another woman or women on occasion, it would only be fair.

We have a few friends that swing and have had discussions about the lifestyle. Up to this point, nothing had happened with either of us.

This weekend, we were at a party. We were in a hot tub. My gf was sitting next to a man who she thought was attractive. He's safe, very married. His wife was next to me.

My gf whispered to me, "Are you okay with this?" while looking toward her hand. I realized she was stroking the man's cock. He wasn't touching her, but was clearly enjoying the attention. I was shocked, but didn't stop her. Not to be outdone, I began touching his wife, as well, but only her leg and thighs. It pretty much ended there, but spurred some interesting emotions.

Sorry for the Playboy story version, but the background is important, I think.

I realized that I was not okay with her being with another man. I have tried to be open to that possibility, since I desire to be in other loving relationships openly, but I realize I will be unable to share her with another man.

She and I talk very frankly. We talked in depth about all that happened. Although I was skeptical at first, she convinced me that it was fun for her to touch him because there was some control in that. But in no way did she have any interest in him returning the touching. She didn't want to screw him.

She really only wants to be with me. We have a very loving and healthy relationship, so I believe this. His wife wasn't attractive to me, so there was really no chance of that going further.

So here's the question, finally-- is it really fair for me to try to be who I am, and ask her to share me, when I am not okay with her being with another man? Is this counter to the idea of polyamory? Do others live by these rules or feel the same way? It feels selfish of me to lay down that rule, but I would rather not be with others than to share her with another man.

Your advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[NeonKaos]

Is it really fair for me to try to be who I am and ask her to share me when I am not OK with her being with another man?

No, it is not fair. If you want to be with other women, it is only fair that she have the choice to be with other men.

Is this counter-intuitive to the ideas of polyamory?

Yes, it is counter-intuitive to the "ideas of polyamory" for things to not be a "two-way street".

Do others live by these rules or feel the same way?

There are other people who say they feel the same as you described.

It feels selfish of me to lay down that rule but I would rather not be with others that to share her with another man.

Two-way street. You don't have the right to "lay down that rule". If she agrees to it, or if she is not interested in other men, then there is no need to "lay down the rule".

Let me ask you this - if you were to become involved with another woman, would you also expect Woman #2 to not be involved with any men besides yourself?

It sounds as though you require a "one penis policy". This can work only if it is what everyone involved wants. You can't dictate what someone else wants. The only thing you can control is yourself.

 

[jkelly]

I brought up the idea of polyamory fairly early. I wasn't really interested in her being with other men, but felt since I wanted to be with another woman or women on occasion...

It sounds from this that what you're looking for is a classic open relationship. You may confuse people if you identify as polyamorous, which is generally understood to be about having multiple ongoing romantic relationships, as opposed to being with other sexual partners on occasion.

Is it really fair for me to try to be who I am, and ask her to share me, when I am not okay with her being with another man? Is this counter to the idea of polyamory? Do others live by these rules, or feel the same way? It feels selfish of me to lay down that rule, but I would rather not be with others than to share her with another man.

I think you get to ask for whatever you want, including "I want to be non-monogamous but want you to be monogamous." That arrangement is probably not going to sound very appealing to most people, but maybe it would work great for the two of you. And if she doesn't like the sound of it, you already know that you'd rather be monogamous than have an equally open relationship, so there's no issue there, either.

As an aside, I would say that yes, your relationship preferences do run counter to the relationship ideas of many poly people, but I don't think that matters in any real way.

 

[Phisch]

Thanks, jkelly and Ygirl. You both pose some interesting points to contemplate. I think I have yet to define how I identify. If I wasere seeing another woman, I would be fine with the second gf seeing other men. The issue I have is with my primary, the woman I love. So by definition, I am not seeking "many loves" but more than one partner.

If I find another lover with the blessing of my gf (we'll cross that bridge eventually), I guess I don't know how I would feel if I fell in love with her and she still wanted to see others. It seems that since the relationship began with that premise, it would be okay for her, even if I did love her. The psychology of all of this is truly fascinating.

Ygirl, you make an excellent point that I can't "lay down the law," and since she isn't interested in another man, I wouldn't really have to. I explore this only because I have a strong sense of what's fair and equitable, but now know I wouldn't be okay with sharing her with another man. I don't seem to have that same concern with her finding another gf though, if she so chose.

It sounds as though I seek an "open relationship" and will reserve the right to re-define that later.

Thanks again.

 

[redpepper]

I think it's really important to remember that generally "rules" are not going to be fair to all involved. "Boundaries," on the other hand, create breathing room and are fluid, changeable. You can request that she not have another male partner. That can be your boundary. But to make it a rule suggests that there is no negotiating that request. She might even say she doesn't want another man in her life, but when push comes to shove and her time with you is divided with another woman you are seeing, she might just change her mind to get all her needs met.

I think it's important to not get stuck in one definition. You are just figuring it all out. Maybe leave the definitions alone and just figure out what YOU want and what SHE wants first. Then embrace it and make it your own. Perhaps poly definitions will fit. Perhaps not.

 

[idealist]

I've realized that I am not okay with her being with another man. Is it really fair for me to try to be who I am and ask her to share me when I am not OK with her being with another man?

You are asking her to share you with another woman or women, so she will have to deal with her emotions about that. Why don't you step up to the plate and deal with your emotions about her being with someone else? Get through it. I can't even believe you would ask this question.

 

[MindfulAgony]

When my wife and I first started talking about an open relationship, she sheepishly asked me "What if I wanted to go out with a guy I met?" I was actually shocked at the question. My shock was that she viewed all the conversation we had about this up to that point (many, many conversations over many months), as only about what I could do. Wow, talking about an eye opener on the importance of clear communication. I had gone into as a given that what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

I think my problem with hearing your description is not about that sharing her is a problem for you, but in the way it is stated. It gives me the sense of blunt force versus partnership and negotiation. Those kind of hard edges can be very difficult to manage through, leave damage and engender quite a bit of resentment. Figuring out how to communicate your boundaries and discomfort in a way that is clear, open and encourages a full dialogue and self-expression is very important and hard when you're uncomfortable with an idea.

When I'm in that situation, I try hard to manage how I communicate my needs, that I allow for the idea of optionality in my partner's willingness and ability to meet my needs, and convey the willingness to work towards a path that works for both of us. Coming in with hard edges to that discussion cuts more than it produces reasonable shared boundaries.

As stated before, instead of taking your unwillingness to share her at face value, ask yourself the question of whether you love her enough to get a deeper understanding of that unwillingness. Do you love her enough to explore the possibility? That doesn't mean you will. It just means that you're willing to sign up for some hard emotional work and to suspend judgment on what lies on the other side. You may be surprised by what underlies that discomfort. This self-insight may allow you to have more flexibility, draw the boundaries differently, or create new boundaries that better meet your needs, while meeting hers.

 

[dragonflysky]

I have always considered myself as polyamorous. I didnt realize there was such a thing, since society teaches differently, until finally delving into the notion. I am currently involved in a monogamous relationship in which I brought up the idea of polyamory fairly early. I wasn't really interested in her being with other men but felt since I wanted to be with another woman/women on occasion, it would only be fair......

...I realized that I am NOT OK with her being with another man. I have tried to be open to that possibility since I desire to be in other loving relationships openly, but I realize I will be unable to share her (*with a man)...

...So here's the question (finally) ...Is it really fair for me to try to be who I am and ask her to share me when I am not OK with her being with another man? Is this counter-intuitive to the ideas of polyamory? Do others live by these rules or feel the same way? It feels selfish of me to lay down that rule but I would rather not be with others that to share her with another man...

Is your wife bisexual, such that she might be interested in adding a female love/lover to her life? If not, what you're wanting is called "polygyny," not to be confused with polyamory. And personally, as a 55-year old female who's observed and been part of the struggles for women's rights, polygyny grinds my gears. As someone who lives in Utah, I won't deny that it's been forced on, somehow has worked for, and been accepted by many females, in the past, and in current FLDS type cults. I'd certainly defend their right to make that choice, if it is their choice, and not a form of marital rape, or child abuse.

 

[FireChild]

My husband and I had a similar conversation and came to some good conclusions for us.

Initially it was:

Him: I don't want you with other men.
Me: I don't want you with other women.

I'm bisexual, so it was no big deal for me. But he's straight, so it was an issue for him. So we talked about it and learned some things.

For him: I am his wife. He's been cheated on by fiancees before. It all just hit a little too close to him. He's not proud of it, but it's a gut reaction, so he felt he needed to share.

For me: he has two children. When I have our first child, it won't be his first. It'll be his first time being in the delivery room and going to all the appointments and being heavily involved. He wasn't aware of the first one till some time after the birth, and distance was a factor with the second child. But it still won't be his first child. So I'm anxious about him not being excited.

Add that to the fact that he's not a fan of condoms. He'll wear one if asked, but generally it'll cut down on the sex for him. He'd rather go the "get tested together frequently and be faithful" route. Dicey, I know. Ick! I'm worried about someone else having his children, which is not something I'm willing to share.

The mothers of his children have been really really mean. I'm 21, so in the beginning, when I first met him, I was a teen trying to handle a really adult situation (two kids, two baby mamas, military), along with graduation and my dad being sick. And they were CRUEL. And I'm just not in a place where I could share that again.

Basically (without the whole sob story) it boiled down to babies for us. It worked for us because
1) I'm not interested in other men anyway, except for occasional instances, and even that would be oral contact, and
2) he wasn't really interested in other women; he's pretty solidly mono.

Like, at the end of the day, it wasn't the emotional contact we had issues with, it was the physical, and we got on the same page about it.

Ask yourself WHY.

 

[X-User1335]

I have to chime in on this one. My husband and I have explored a poly relationship. We have found someone that makes our lives full. There are "rules" that we have all laid down.

1. I won't see anyone else.

2. He won't see anyone else.

3. She won't see anyone else!

Okay, so that might not even be poly. I don't really know. Nut what I do know is that it works for us. I don't want anyone other than the two of them, and they both feel the same way.

I am attracted to both men and women. So is our gf. Our man is only attracted to women. He would never, ever, under no circumstances be okay with either me or her finding another man, or even another woman.

She and I are both okay with that because we both want this type of relationship. Neither of us want him to share us, except with one another.

So my advice is to find what works for you.

If you can't share her with a man, tell her that. I don't think that you need to "get over it." I think that your feelings are your feelings and you need to share them with your girl so that she knows what you are okay with and what you aren't.

If she came to you and told you that it was not okay for you to do this or that, and that it would hurt her, you would listen and do what you could to make her comfortable, right? Exactly. She will, too.

 

[redpepper]

1. I won't see anyone else.

2. He won't see anyone else.

3. She won't see anyone else.

That might not even be poly. I don't really know. But I do know that it works for us. I don't want anyone other than the two of them, and they both feel the same way.

I am not sure why I care so much, but I will ask again. You seem to think that this is not poly and that in some way you are unusual. I asked what made you think so before and you didn't answer. It looks like you are poly-fidelitous to me. What is it that makes you think that is unusual? I don't get it.

Sorry for the hijack. I'm just trying to understand Jenni.

 

[Magdlyn]

jennjuice, I have heard your situation called poly-fidelity.

Phisch, when my ex husband and I first opened our relationship, we were in a similar boat. He's straight, I am bi. He had not accepted my bi nature for the first couple decades of our relationship, but finally came to accept it and even become titillated by it. So, after some fantasizing, we met a woman and he began to have a romantic relationship with her. We were hunting for a unicorn, a single bi woman. But it turned out she and I weren't attracted to each other.

He had told both of us he didn't want me to date men, only women. I didn't think this was fair, but we didn't discuss it much, because back then, our kids were young and I really didn't have the time or energy for dating, or really any interest in it.

But his gf was appalled at the idea that he would try to prevent me from seeing men as well as women, should I meet any likely prospects. Soon enough, he realized how sexist he was being, and agreed I had the autonomy to date and/or have sex with anyone I wanted.

Ach, the patriarchy. It weirds me out that so many women today ID as bi, but men are stuck in the idea that two men together is gross. And they have jealousy around their wives seeing other men, but are okay with them seeing other women! What is so damn magical about a stupid penis? She could fall as deeply in love with another woman as with another man, causing similar NRE issues, after all. She might fall in love with a masculine lesbian. Is that okay? Or can she only date femme "lipstick lesbians," like in porn?

<gets off soapbox>

 

[NeonKaos]

I am not sure why I care so much, but I will ask again. You seem to think that this is not poly and that in some way you are unusual.... I asked what made you think so before and you haven't answered.... it looks like you are and it looks like you are poly-fi to me. What is it that makes you think that is unusual? I don't get it.

sorry for the hijack, I'm just trying to understand Jenni

I was wondering the same thing. I wouldn't have even given it (the FMF poly-fi triad) a second thought, but for the fact that jennjuice mentioned it more than once and made a point to say that it's "not really poly". What is so "not poly" about it? Is it just that you don't like to use the p-word? Because a three-way relationship is certainly not "mono".

 

[X-User1335]

I say that sometimes because I don't want to step on anyone's toes by describing our relationship as polyamory, because I see that so many different people here have completely different relationships. So it's meant to not offend anyone.

We have a closed relationship, the three of us. I guess I'm still coming to terms with what it really is. While deep down I don't really care what the "label" of it may be, it is what it is, and makes the three of us happy.

Sorry RP, I didn't see where you had asked me that before. I've been pretty busy the past week and just got time today to get on here and talk.

While yes, I can see where some people might have a issue with our man wanting to see other women, but for us to not date other men, we don't have an issue with it, and that's all that matters to us.

The three of us are to be faithful to each other, and that's fine by all of us. None of us would have it any other way.

I see so many relationships here that are totally open to the man and woman having as many partners as they want and of both sexes. That's great as long as it is what makes the people happy. That's pretty much how I see everything. I don't care what you, you, or you do in YOUR life. It's yours, so have fun with it!

So, again, when I say stuff about not being sure about poly, it's because I don't want to assume that's what our relationship is. I don't know what to call it, other than happy.

 

[NeonKaos]

ok

 

[Ceoli]

So when I say stuff about not being sure about poly, it's because I don't want to assume that's what our relationship is. I don't know what to call it, other than happy.

If it involves loving more than one person in a romantic way, with all parties involved knowing and consenting to it, it's poly. There are many many people who practice poly the way you do. It's called poly-fidelity and it's not uncommon.

 

[inlovewith2]

Is it really fair for me to try to be who I am and ask her to share me, when I am not okay with her being with another man? Is this counter to the ideas of polyamory? Do others live by these rules, or feel the same way? It feels selfish of me to lay down that rule, but I would rather not be with others than to share her with another man.

Let's take a moment and pause the judgment. Questions of fairness are elusive. Your feelings are your feelings and I think it is a lot more productive to sit with those, see where they are coming from, and assess whether they can be changed.

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately. DW has begun dating a woman who sounds very lovely. He'll ask me if I'm comfortable with this or that and I say yes, each time to his great surprise. For a while, it upset him further that I was okay with it. In other words, not only was I okay with being with another man, but being okay with him being with another woman was further salt in the wound.

There is a part of me that feels like I "should" be okay with it, because it's "fair." So, I think that's where it started. But as time went on, and I began having wonderful experiences (none sexual in this timeframe), I thought "Why wouldn't I want him to feel this way?" I mean, I essentially get to relive our early dating days by dating others *and* being with him, someone for whom my love has grown very deep. So why wouldn't I want that for him? And he's so freaking cute as a dating guy.

I don't know if that's helpful to you, but I think what I'm suggesting is to pause for a bit and sit with your feelings. Try to consider how the alternatives might feel to you. And obviously consider how your partner feels.

 

[redpepper]

Let's take a moment and pause the judgment. Questions of fairness are elusive. Your feelings are your feelings. I think it is a lot more productive to sit with those, see where they are coming from, and assess whether they can be changed.

I think this is a great idea. I don't think your feelings are bad. No feelings are bad, and they don't make you a bad person. They are ones that need adjusting in order to not be hypocritical, but the way of getting there is what's important.

Sometimes walking right up to feelings and walking through them is the only way. A lot of the time, I think people are scared to experience them and so avoid them, or do what they think is right by others, and then feel worse. Really, facing up to the fears, and pulling apart what the feelings are can make us learn and grow, so as to make a change with full knowledge of why.

Jealousy is a big one to face up to. I have found that there is always a deeper issue/need behind jealousy, that can be very useful. Perhaps you will find that in this situation.

 

[MindfulAgony]

I think this is a great idea. I don't think your feelings are bad, no feelings are bad and don't make you a bad person. They are ones that need adjusting in order to not be hypocritical, but the way of getting there is what's important...

Sometimes walking right up to feelings and walking through them is the only way. A lot of time I think people are scared to experience them and so avoid them or do what they think is right by others and then feel worse. Really, facing up to the fear and pulling a part what the feeling is really can make us learn and grow... so as to make a change with full knowledge of why.

Jealousy is a big one to face up to, but I have found that there is always a deeper issue/need behind it that can be very useful. Perhaps you will find that in this situation.

Very good advice, Rddpepper. Instead of focusing on whether or not the feelings are valid or good or bad, it's better to really focus on the feelings themselves. As Redpepper said, walk right up to them and, if possible, through them. The self insight that can come from fully experiencing your feelings can give you a better sense of why you can't share, irrespective of whether you decide to share in the end or not. The self-insight is much more important than the outcome.

An added side benefit is that the intimacy you can create by sharing that journey with your partner is also pretty spectacular. This is hard because of what those feelings bring up in you. Sharing the good and bad of my emotional states is really the hardest for me. But, the deepest levels of intimacy can be achieved by having a partner close by while you walk through those feelings.

 

[Derbylicious]

My thought on this is that I wouldn't be okay with someone dictating whom I could see while they were free to see whomever they happened to be attracted to. At the moment, I have no interest in other men, but if it did come up, and I did become interested in a man, I know that my husband and I could work through it. For me, it's a matter of respect and equality.

You have every right to be uncomfortable with her being with another man. But it also your responsibility to work out why you are uncomfortable with it. If she doesn't want to be with other men at the moment, that's great. It means that you have time to work through it and find the why before she does develop an attraction to another man.