Help! The role of the 'secondary'.

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habibtig

New member
I do hope i'm not offending anyone off the bat with the title 'secondary'. I hate it myself, but for the sake of the question...

This is my first post, so hello! Thank you to you all for allowing me to quietly learn from your lives. I've been reading since my husband and I started this journey last August.

Frankly, shit has gone pear shaped and we need some advice. A little background~ David and I have been together for 14 years, married for 10. We have two sweet ones that are still little (6+8), and live in a tiny community in the tropics. We never even considered a poly lifestyle until things started bumping in an interesting and exciting way last summer. Enter Paul, an old love that I hadn't seen in 22 years. The typical badboy that breaks your heart, but somehow you can never shake? Ya, he showed up in this tiny town, in this tiny country (that neither of us are from, nor did we grow up here) and threw me for a right loop.

Long and painful story short, through incredible communication and love, David has welcomed Paul into our lives and we are living quite harmoniously. Not together, but in close proximity. I am blissfully happy and can't quite believe this is my life at the moment. I'm holding it with such gratitude as I understand at my core that whatever my loves must feel, it is not nearly as perfect as how it feels to me.

My husband, David, started a relationship with Allison 2 months after mine began. She is...lovely. She is probably the best friend one can have. Loyal, attentive and fun. She strives to be the 'cool chick'~ 'nothing bothers me, i got this, no worries' kind of woman. Unfortunately, she tries to play this role and in the meantime becomes her own worst enemy. She is attention seeking, emotionally immature, and spiteful. She has simultaneously been the most fun my husband has had in years, and the biggest pain in his ass. But he loves her, and I support him fully.

Sadly, I think the reality is that poly is not for her. She can't wrap her head around it. She needs more, and I can't blame her. His biggest fear was that he wasn't going to be able to give her what she needs, and that has become glaringly apparent in her recent hissy fits. Basically, while Paul would love nothing more than to become part of our family, Allison buries her head in the sand that a family even exists and loses her mind when she is reminded of it.

I have looked everywhere to get a better understanding of the 'secondary's' perspective. To see how we can be more compassionate, how to better share time, to give our partners the voice they deserve, and to put (her) mind at ease that the 'rug isn't going to be pulled out from under her' on a whim. We need a manual!

Quite simply~ what shit role to have. We have it all, while they 'wait' for time with us. I welcome any and all perspectives...
 
These are not things that you can help her with. She and Dave need to work out a schedule and their relationship. The best thing you can do in mind your business and let them work it out. Allison can only find peace on her own. You cannot do the work for her.
 
What a shitty role to be primary. You are stuck at home watching how your "partner" experiences passion elsewhere.
What a shitty role to be the hinge. Everywhone's overwhelming you with demands and you must split yourself to make all partners happy.
...
She should not be stuck waiting, she has a life. That said, yes, it sucks to be in a poly relationship when really you want to be monogamous. Sometimes things can be worked out, sometimes not.

Dagferi is right, this is not really your business. She must figure herself out. She + your partner must figure their relationship out. When do you enter the picture? When they come with an idea where they stand and ask you stand, so that agreements can be worked out.

You do not need a manual.
Just from the fact that you are concerned, you seem to have the basics together. What you need is to customize them to your situation.

What I am not clear at all from your post is, what is she actually missing? She may not be clear herself, but still.
Is is, that she really needs a partner for herself? (If so, it might be best if they split.)
Is it, that she needs more alone time with your partner?
Is it, that she feels "less then" for whatever reason?
Is she insecure about her role in the relationship?
Would it be possible and sufficient for her to be co-primary?
(Question for you perhaps: In what ways do you view her as secondary? What privieldge are you keeping as a couple?)
Something else?

You don't seem to know, which may be ok since you are not the partner to her, but you def don't need a manual. She needs to break her problem down to these things, with perhaps just a little outside help. I don't know if you are friends enough to ask her, but perhaps your mutual partner should.
 
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Why isn't David posting about his problem?

I am going to guess. I guess the problem is...

  • You feel bad your side is going well and David's side is not.
  • You are having a hard time watching Allison struggle because Allison doesn't have the sense to get out of a poly network that doesn't work for her.
  • You are having a hard time watching David struggle to accept the fact that he cannot give her what she wants. (a non-poly relationship)
  • You are tempted to butt in, so you can stop feeling bad.

If that's the problem? Then problem seems to resolve around people accepting their personal limitations.

It is not about secondary problems per se. So researching secondary things isn't going to help. If the bottom line is that Allison wants a non-poly model and David wanting a poly model. Not compatible. And that's their thing to solve, not yours.

I have looked everywhere to get a better understanding of the 'secondary's' perspective. To see how we can be more compassionate, how to better share time, to give our partners the voice they deserve, and to put (her) mind at ease that the 'rug isn't going to be pulled out from under her' on a whim.
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If the problem was Allison hating a permanent primary-secondary model? You sound like you are flexible and not all caught up in couple privilege. You sound willing to articulate the deal breakers from each person. You could offer to work toward co-primary model. But that isn't the problem.

If the problem is that she doesn't want any poly at all but she continues in it anyway and then acts out? She could not do that. She could end it, and not act out.

If David expects her to get herself out of a situation that she does not like? And it's not happening? David could change his expectation. He could now expect HIM to do something about it. You could tell him dragging it out is NOT kind and it is kinder to let something go. He could pick what that is.

  • He could break up with her now because already he knows he will not give her mono.
  • Or he could break up with the poly network, and go be with her in a mono shape relationship.
  • Or he could end it with both Allison and you. Then go be on his own doing X.
  • Or he could do nothing. (That's a good way to grow resentments).

I see no other choices right now. Things might FEEL hard, but he could still pick his hard. The action paths seem pretty clear.

You could encourage him to be responsible and decisive. You could ask him to get on with picking his path. Then get out of the way and let him deal with it.

If he tries to overshare his problems with you -- you could point him to others to help him. You cannot manage his relationships for him or get over involved in them when you yourself are one of his relationships. Conflict of interests.

He has to stand on his own two feet. And you have already given your opinion once anyway -- he could pick his hard and get on with his problem solving.

Galagirl
 
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habibtig said:
My husband, David, started a relationship with Allison 2 months after mine began. She is...lovely. She is probably the best friend one can have. Loyal, attentive and fun. She strives to be the 'cool chick'~ 'nothing bothers me, i got this, no worries' kind of woman. Unfortunately, she tries to play this role and in the meantime becomes her own worst enemy. She is attention seeking, emotionally immature, and spiteful. She has simultaneously been the most fun my husband has had in years, and the biggest pain in his ass. But he loves her, and I support him fully.

Sadly, I think the reality is that poly is not for her. She can't wrap her head around it. She needs more, and I can't blame her. His biggest fear was that he wasn't going to be able to give her what she needs, and that has become glaringly apparent in her recent hissy fits. Basically, while Paul would love nothing more than to become part of our family, Allison buries her head in the sand that a family even exists and loses her mind when she is reminded of it.

I have looked everywhere to get a better understanding of the 'secondary's' perspective. To see how we can be more compassionate, how to better share time, to give our partners the voice they deserve, and to put (her) mind at ease that the 'rug isn't going to be pulled out from under her' on a whim. We need a manual!

Quite simply~ what shit role to have. We have it all, while they 'wait' for time with us. I welcome any and all perspectives...
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For starters, if you'd like to have more compassion, try having more compassion. Look at the way you've described her. Your entire post comes across as you, David, and Paul are all wonderful, perfect people and so with-it, in harmony, etc. and then...there's the screw-up, Allison. Your entire tone toward her is patronizing and condescending. Chances are pretty high she's getting those vibes off you.

Second, when I see such hyperbole, I'm inclined to wonder just what said 'hissy fits' really consisted of. I'm not taking it on face value that all these things are objectively true of her, when we're hearing only one side of the story.

Third, I find it interesting how often the problem in poly is between two women. It seems to me I see far more successful poly groups involving a woman and two or three men. Given that and your clear disdain for her, I'm not surprised she wonders if and when the rug is going to be yanked from under her.

Fourth, if you'd like to know what it feels like to be a secondary, go to FL and look up the one or two groups there for secondary singles. If you want to hear my view of being a secondary, I'd be glad to tell you when I have more time.

Edited to Add: Just one example from above: 'the most fun he's had in years but also the biggest pain in the ass.' What it feels like to many secondaries, is that they're the fun toy. Your above words certainly leave me with the image that Allison is David's fun toy that isn't quite working properly.
 
I appreciate the responses. I don't claim to know anything...we are absolute newbies, and I definitely don't think the boys and I are perfectly put together. It has been a total shitshow! We've just fallen into a great groove that is TODAY. It could all change on a dime, I'm sure. I just think we are handling the challenges with a bit more grace. As I said, we live in a small town. Allison and I were close acquaintances that enjoyed each other's company prior to them starting a relationship. When we chose this path, he immediately seeked her out. She was apprehensive, and likely should have followed her gut about it being beyond her comfort level. But she's a big girl, and she made a different decision.

Perhaps I do sound condescending? I'm irritated, for sure, as her behaviour has been completely inappropriate at times. That said, everything I know is from what he has told me, as a sounding board hoping for some help. But she's certainly not getting those vibes off of me, as there is never an opportunity to talk, discuss or connect. That's fine...we don't have to be friends or pretend we're anything we're not~ but isn't communication an essential piece to this choice? Wouldn't even just ONE conversation give her peace of mind that I'm not here to pull rank, or be at all a roadblock in their relationship? I know...there's no forcing it, it's not my business, etc. My husband loves her, and I want to help. That's it. Not trying to butt in, or create drama where none exists.

WhatHappened, thanks for the bitch slap, it made me laugh. I would love to read more about how it feels to be secondary and things that work for those in that role to make them feel more secure and... legitimized? May I ask what FL is? The part that bothers me the most (and I think Paul as well, not sure about Allison) is the secretive aspect. While our closest friends all know and are supportive, we are still not 'out' in this tiny little town. As time passes, we are caring less what people think, but it's still tough. As simple as Paul wanting to post a photo of us on FB and feels like he can't. That just plain sucks. As far as your toy comment~ so incredibly valid. What are we screwing up, and what needs to change in order to make sure that we don't make anyone feel that way?

GalaGirl, you are spot on about every point you made other than wanting to butt in. I honestly don't want to touch any of their stuff with a 10 foot pole. I've told him about this site, but not sure if he has ventured on yet. I identified with your response the most. I've told him a few times that he should probably respect what she is attempting to scream at him, but neither of them seem able to let go. I won't force the issue~ that is his choice to ultimately make. Conflict of interest is interesting, and is something we should consider. I don't THINK I give biased opinions, but again, certainly not perfect.

Tinwen, I do feel open to co-primaries (I truly feel open to anything), it just feels sticky as to how it would look considering our small children. How to explain where Daddy is in the morning, why he's gone at night, etc. We've managed it pretty well to this point, but if it were to become a permanent and expansive arrangement we would have to figure out how to 'come out' to our kids in a responsible way. But clearly you don't offer that option to someone until you know they truly want to make it a viable thing, right??

Feels so fucking complicated some days. Clearly I have way more questions than this one...
 
I wouldn't put it so harshly, but I think WhatHappened makes some good points.

Also, most women of child bearing age have an eye (even if secretly) toward having children. If Allison isn't absolutely 1000% clear about this issue, it will seep into every interaction, every conversation, every nuance of your poly world. It's a "cleaner" issue for Paul because he likely isn't feeling an internal struggle over whether and how to have children. There is an enormous difference, especially in poly, between women who want and have yet to have children and everyone else. It's much easier to be breezy and relaxed about a shared domestic situation if you have already had kids or have no desire and no internal conflict about nesting and babies. Since you're the mother of the kids in the house, she is and always will be the "add on." I don't think anyone is making Allison feel like a fuck toy, but that's kind of the role she is set up for here and it's very likely that she is having a lot of conflicting feelings about her role, whether she is able to verbalize those feelings or not. It's a rare (and extraordinarily mature) woman who is young-ish and is completely at peace about being a married man's lover. If she is, chances are 99 in 100 that she either already has kids or is absolutely certain that she doesn't want them.


No matter the case, introspection is always a good idea when someone is perceived as a problem in your life. You seem like a cool cat, tho, habibtig. I hope you stick around.
 
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No Allison doesn't need to have a conversation with you about anything. Not about her relationship with David not even the weather. As long as she is not trying to sabotage your relationship with David what she does, thinks or feels Is none of your business unless she personally brings you into thing s.

David needs to stop being a sloppy hinge. Does she know that he complains about their relationship to you? Murf would flip the fuck out if I shared inside information with Butch about our relationship.
 
I honestly don't want to touch any of their stuff with a 10 foot pole.
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Could state your opinion once, and then hold your own boundary if he keeps turning to you for help on this. This is NOT something you want to touch with a 10 foot pole. You are not willing. He could seek another listening ear.


everything I know is from what he has told me, as a sounding board hoping for some help
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I've told him a few times that he should probably respect what she is attempting to scream at him...
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Then it sounds like you have told him you opinion already. You may have to let go of the rope and quit being his soundboard on this. If he wants you to be more sound board? Say you already did that. It's now on him to choose action at this point or it is now on him to seek another sounding board person elsewhere. Don't pick up the rope again.

...but neither of them seem able to let go.
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Sounds more like neither is willing to let it go at this point in time. IME? It sometimes takes one big ol' mess before people learn to become willing to end things more quickly and cleanly, in order to not have a big ol' mess experience again. That might be the case here. Like they haven't learned that yet, so they are going to drag it out and suffer in the meanwhile. :(

I just think if one is going to linger, it's better to linger in the healing space rather than in the breaking up space. But I also think experience has to teach one that.

I won't force the issue~ that is his choice to ultimately make. Conflict of interest is interesting, and is something we should consider. I don't THINK I give biased opinions, but again, certainly not perfect.
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You don't sound like you are biased to me. You sound like you are concerned about them both, kind of done with hissy fits, and wishing they would get on with resolution.

But because you are a person inside this system? It could become easy to blame you when people don't want to deal with stuff. Or when they ask you for your input but then criticize you because they don't like what you say. Way too easy for him or her to go "What do you know? You have a conflict of interest. Of COURSE you would say ____ because then it works for you!"

Since the main thing seems helping YOU to be more comfortable riding it out as they sort their stuff? Since you don't want to touch it with a 10 ft pole? I suggest you change your approach at this point and decline getting involved (even if invited) so people cannot accuse you of butting in.

Hold your boundary if he comes to you asking for help again. Could tell him "Sorry, hon. I am not the person to talk to about this. I am too close to the situation. Seek a listening ear OUTSIDE the system. "

Side step it and let their stuff be their stuff. Don't let them drag you into it. You already said what you think several times. At some point, that's enough.

Galagirl
 
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Hi habibtig,

Re (from OP):
"I have looked everywhere to get a better understanding of the 'secondary's' perspective ... We need a manual!"
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Franklin Veaux has a couple of good pages you can turn to:

Actually his whole website is worth a look, as is his book, "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory" (by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert).

Hopefully that helps?
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
FallenAngelina~ wow...so insightful. The child part never even crossed my mind as she has always suggested she's not interested in children. That said, I felt the same way until I met David. She's 37, so if it's at all itching at her, it would be now. Thank you for that POV.

Everything you said makes sense, which is such a bummer for the hetero male in a poly relationship, no? Maybe I'm just a selfish prick and the reason why I'm trying so hard to be lending ear to help is because I am so happy and am in fact the one who's afraid of having the rug pulled out from under me.

Dagferi~ none of my business, and stop being a sloppy hinge. Copy that!

Gala~ ahh, the 'healing space'. I love that. YES. It's becoming clear that it's just not meant to be with them. Too bad we live in a tiny tourist town and David is more built for poly than he is to just be open. He will be so sad to lose her. Hopefully they can rebuild their friendship, which is what it was initially. Going to read about letting go of the rope... :)

Kevin~ thank you for the links!

I'm just on Amazon trying to decide which book to order next. Already did Opening Up...now trying to decide between More than Two and The Polyamorists Next Door. Yup, silly newbie feeling the need to read myself through this process!!
 
I have "More than Two" and "The Polyamorists Next Door" myself. But I haven't read "Polyamorists Next Door" yet. It's on my reading list, I'm a slooow reader.

If you need a how-to manual, "More than Two" is definitely the next book to get. "Opening Up" is really good also, it kind of covers the full range of responsible nonmonogamy, whereas "More than Two" is more specific to polyamory.

They're both excellent books.
 
It still pleases me to encounter stable, happy MFMs, in a world that kinda idealizes the FMF. I kinda miss the sense of male-male bonding I've only experienced with a mutual lover but none of the macho posturing.

And I'm a defender of the "secondary" situation, which (for me, at least) keeps me happily off the "escalator" of expecting (or having expected of me) that it somehow must lead to "something better."

As for Allison... dunno if it's immediately helpful to you. My experience is that it's always better for an intimate network to "offer a hand" to maybe bring someone up to speed, & generally a bad idea to "slow things down" for the newest / slowest / most troubled. That latter mostly backfires, playing to weakness rather than encouraging strength.

Though possibly out of reach for you guys, if I were in such a situation, I'd sit down with BOTH -- maybe all four of you -- & moderate a dialogue between the two of them. This is a clarifying exercise, attempting to ensure that there are no secrets, that everyone's fully aware of the situation. After that, it's up to THEM to each decide whether their actual intents align or can happily be aligned, & what actions will be taken if accord cannot be reached.
 
habibtig said:
WhatHappened, thanks for the bitch slap, it made me laugh. I would love to read more about how it feels to be secondary and things that work for those in that role to make them feel more secure and... legitimized? May I ask what FL is? The part that bothers me the most (and I think Paul as well, not sure about Allison) is the secretive aspect. While our closest friends all know and are supportive, we are still not 'out' in this tiny little town. As time passes, we are caring less what people think, but it's still tough. As simple as Paul wanting to post a photo of us on FB and feels like he can't. That just plain sucks. As far as your toy comment~ so incredibly valid. What are we screwing up, and what needs to change in order to make sure that we don't make anyone feel that way?
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Nothing was intended to be a bitch slap, but merely telling you how things might well feel to her. How your own words come across online, and therefore some guesses as to why there might be problems in person. Attitudes do come across.

"It made you laugh." Admittedly, tone does not come through writing; not knowing someone personally, we may easily misconstrue their intentions. However, 'it made me laugh' leads me to think....this is exactly what I'm talking about. A little bit of condescension. It's great to get applause and pats on the back, but...as far as I know, I'm the only one who replied to you who is actually in Allison's position--a female single secondary. So if you're serious about wanting this to work, for her and David, then other women who have been in her position are the ones who might actually have the most insight into how this feels to her. Perhaps the ones you should listen to rather than be oh-so-amused by.

FL is fetlife. There's one fairly active group for single secondaries.

I would say in general, the only way most single secondaries are going to feel secure and legitimized is if they are really as vital, important, and protected a person and relationship as the primary. If their wishes and needs and feelings are as fully important and respected. If they feel at the very least that they have an equal voice in the relationship. Is she going to be able to share a home with him, start a family with him, vacation with him, count on him being there for her if she falls sick?

Most couples have a view of 'protecting the marriage.' I very much understand that--especially with children. But the flip side is the unspoken knowledge that 'protect the marriage' by necessity means 'the secondary will be tossed if that's what it takes to protect the marriage.'

Imagine how it would feel to know that David will protect his relationship with Allison at all costs--including, he'll tell you to leave if your presence in any way threatens his relationship with her. How would it feel to realize Allison and David are now making rules about what you will be allowed in your relationship with him? This is how it feels to be a single secondary.

It is often the case that the rules have been set by the couple before hand. So there's romance, falling in love--and suddenly realizing you have a choice of play by rules set up by a third party, rules you never agreed to, rules that limit your relationship and time together--or walk away from someone you have now fallen in love with. Two lousy choices. And having her romance and love life dictated by another--this is part of what leaves someone feeling like a toy, rather than a real person with real feelings, who is loved and respected and cared for.

This is part of why it ends up feeling like being a toy....because the single secondary is often not really part of a man's full and 'real' life. Because she knows in most cases, deep down, regardless of what's said, that she is ultimately disposable. She is not the one ultimately being protected.

Not being acknowledged for her position in life, for how he really feels about her, her pictures not being put on facebook with him, being a secret--yes, that ultimately begins to hurt. It's part of what leaves women feeling like they're just the entertainment, not a legitimately LOVED partner.

Everything I've read suggests that few secondary relationships last 2-1/2 years, and very, very few to the five-year mark. My personal observation after four years of reading anything and everything on polyamory, and living it for two years, is that most of the lasting Vs involve two men and a woman, and I think all of those involve virtually complete equality between the two hinges.

If you truly want things to work for Allison and David, do a lot of reading on the forums I suggested on Fetlife. And consider if you're willing to let her be a fully equal partner to David.

Feel free to PM me if you want specifics of the things that personally left me feeling like a toy.
 
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I am a single secondary. WhatHappened's writing seems to me to imply that you are the one who fuels the somewhat flawed structure, which I don't hold as necessarily true, but she certainly gives the picture

This is it:
WhatHappened said:
Is she going to be able to share a home with him, start a family with him, vacation with him, count on him being there for her if she falls sick?
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Those are generally the things that really bother me as a secondary. Will the hinge have to "ask" his wife to take a weekend off or a vacation with me, or is this his decision? How will he split his time, will he prefere family? This is the practical stuff that decides if the relationship will feel "less then".

Do we commit to care for each other if one of us is sick? Not really? Then I am effectivelly single and must care for my support network. Thanks goodness I have supportive family. And what about financial issues?
Those concerns are part of every relationship, not just poly. It takes time to for couples to commit to all the different obligations from care to family. But it is generally far more complicated for secondaries to see a stable "future" where these very basic needs for security are met.

In my case Idealist and Meta live together and I don't want to share living space with her (if they were open to it). So this is a major drawback. Although he does his everything to show me care, this sure makes me feel like I could do better in relationships.
Also (as FallenAngelina points out) I want to have children someday. Even if it's someday and not now, it feels like there is a build-in time limit to the relationship. Is this holding me back from finding a "true" partner to build a family with me? Very uncomfortable.

But, as said before. It is actually David's business to reassure her, let her know where he stands with his commitments, and to sort out in himself and with both of you what is possible for the future. It's her responsibility to decide if she is staying or not. Your part is to communicate and to see if you can be ok with a really egalitarian arrangement or not.
 
Tinwen said:
I am a single secondary. WhatHappened's writing seems to me to imply that you are the one who fuels the somewhat flawed structure, which I don't hold as necessarily true, but she certainly gives the picture.
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No, I very much don't think that the OP herself fuels the flawed structure. I think the structure itself is inherently flawed, which is why we see so few Vs and triads succeed long term.

My ex-BF said almost from the beginning that when it works, it's also almost always with when the secondary is also married and has her own primary. Or, as I've seen, when there's true equality between partners. Being a single secondary very often means being left alone. I could go into some details about that--incidents of realizing how very much he wasn't going to be there for me--that led to me breaking up with him. However, fortunately perhaps ;) I have things I absolutely need to get to. Maybe later.
 
Labriola lists pros and cons of several models here.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

I think part of the problem with a "primary-secondary open model" is that feelings can change, and then the model sometimes starts to feel oppressive. Nobody likes being treated "less than." I could maybe see something starting out "primary-secondary" with the idea of "working toward co-primary" over time. But I don't know about staying at "primary-secondary" for all people. Some people are ok with that (maybe the have a primary elsewhere, or they are dedicated to work, or whatever). Some people are not.

Here's some other links in case it helps you, Habibtig.


But I still think that this is not your thing to solve. It is between those two. You cannot be fixing it for them.

Galagirl
 
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WhatHappened said:
My ex-BF said almost from the beginning that when it works, it's also almost always with when the secondary is also married and has her own primary. Or, as I've seen, when there's true equality between partners.
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True, I think... I'm happy being my boyfriend's "secondary", but if I didn't have a primary relationship of my own, I'd feel very unsatisfied with the relationship.

It can also work out when the secondary doesn't want a primary-style partner. My husband has 2 friend-girls who are single. One has multiple FWBs/casual dating partners, the other just has him. But both women have super demanding careers, almost-grown kids, and have been-there-done-that with the marriage thing. They like being single and independent, and don't want to live with a partner or entwine their lives with one. Over the years I've watched them both try to date single men, and then run when those men started to want more than a couple of nights a week together.

I will admit that I have never understood exactly why a single person who *does* want cohabitation/kids/etc would get involved with someone who already has those things with another partner. I apologize if that comes across as judgy, I mean it as honest curiousity. It seems like such a long shot, to make the co-primary thing work, especially if both people want children with the shared partner. And I agree that the primary/secondary structure is unfair and unsustainable if both partners do want a primary or entangled role.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
It can also work out when the secondary doesn't want a primary-style partner. My husband has 2 friend-girls who are single. One has multiple FWBs/casual dating partners, the other just has him. But both women have super demanding careers, almost-grown kids, and have been-there-done-that with the marriage thing. They like being single and independent, and don't want to live with a partner or entwine their lives with one. Over the years I've watched them both try to date single men, and then run when those men started to want more than a couple of nights a week together.
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This would describe me! However, I still wouldn't want to be considered "secondary" nor less important. I would always want to feel respected, valued, and just as important to someone as any other partner or close friend in his life. I want to be heard when I express myself, and my concerns to be considered. I'd love to have an occasional getaway without his SO or "primary" dictating whether I do or not, though during the regular course of life I just wouldn't need to spend an awful lot of time with my lover each week, and our lives and finances wouldn't be entwined.
 
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I'm the unmarried nonchildbearing partner in vee. It's 3 years and going strong. Real splits time between households roughly 60/40 with the imbalance due to my mom care responsibility and his childcare responsibility.

I'm not gonna say it's perfect all the time. We have blips and sometime scheduling conflicts. Lady and I have gone from little contact metas to close friends to occasional fwb and back again. We work best as friends/close acquaintances with real as a strong hinge.

Sometimes it's difficult, but that is something for me and real to deal with. An "intervention" by my meta would definitely piss me off and I would feel like I was being treated like a child.
The non public part of not being out like Facebook posts etc is weird. Honestly I don't think most people notice or care or just slot the information into their predetermined idea about you as a person. To the outside world my posts of pics of baseball games and cons and beer feats are just 2 or more friends hanging out. My closer friends know, my wider circle really doesn't care very much. Anyone who was nasty is no longer given access.

When you are concerned about your meta (if you have regular contact) and deciding whether to address it, my advice would be to frame it this way...if this person were a co worker/casual friends/distant cousin. ..would I jump into their business or would I trust them to manage things as they decide.
 
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