Help! This was a rough start... How to make it work?

[Greenleaf]

Hi there!

English is not my first language, so bare with me, will you?

I am new to polyamory and I need help. My boyrfriend and I started off the wrong way in this adventure and I would like to hear some perspectives and ideas how to make things right again.

So… When I started dating my boyfriend (of 6 months) he put his secondary on the back burner ( I have none and am currently not interested in adding). When he told me he missed her, I said he should meet her to simply talk, catch up with eachother. Without any physical stuff going on, so I could experience whatever feelings would come up.
This did not happen for a while and all of a sudden he told me he had had a meditation session with her (and dinner beforehand and some other non-physical but highly spiritual stuff).

I am upset. He did not understand that to me the meditation stuff seems quite intimate too. He is not having sex with her (they used to only occasionally and he might want to again in the future), but that is not the point. I feel like they are connecting and building their relation. He talks about how important the meditations are to him to find some quiet and evolve spirtually. I get that point, but… Why does he have to do that with his secondary? And I can find a way to be ok with it, but I need some time to adjust. He has a hard time being patient with me about that, since he needs it so badly.

To me it feels like he is adding more difficulty to my process of getting used to a polyamorous relationship. He says: she has always been there, this is not new. Rules like taking it slow don’t work. And I get it… He loves her too. So it must be hurtful not to feel totally free to be with her in the way he used to. I want to work through my feelings so that I can consent to all reasonable wishes and give him his sense of freedom back.
But I am upset and worried. It’s been rough. Communication has been poor. We have not had enough practice with small stuff. How much worse is it going to get once he might actually have sex with her? Or have some beautiful epiphany?

I sense I could deal with my feelings and get to a state of compersion, but… I need time. We have other issues as well and I can’t cope with everything at once. He feels like I am restricting him more and more, while I am actually working on moving my limits and working through my feelings. He wants to hear about how I move forward, but when I tell him about it, he is not happy at all… I gues he is loosing confidence it is going to happen any time soon. He loves me so much he has adjusted in so many respects I did not know until recently.
I want to get on the right track with him about this. What can I do or say to him so he will find more patience? Or what can I say to myself to speed up the process and feel comfortable with him meditating or whatever with her?
I am open to tough questions about myself.

Help?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

I see several areas.

COMMUNICATION

I said he should meet her to simply talk, catch up with eachother. Without any physical stuff going on, so I could experience whatever feelings would come up.

Sounds like they did that.

I am upset. He did not understand that to me the meditation stuff seems quite intimate too.

Well, he cannot read your mind. You did not include that in the statement above. You only listed physical intimacies.

Could call it a learning experience. You have learned when communicating with him you have to paint a clearer picture. Not just assume he values the same things you do as "intimate."

HOW TO "DO" POLY

He says: she has always been there, this is not new. Rules like taking it slow don’t work.

Ah, but not new to WHO? It's not new to HIM. But to you? It IS new. And he is not just with her. That part is new. Even to him. You haven't been there before.

If he wants to be with both her AND you, he has to work with what each partner needs. Not just expect his partners to do whatever HE wants at his speed.

I want to work through my feelings so that I can consent to all reasonable wishes and give him his sense of freedom back.

Sounds fair enough.

What is he wiling to do to help you arrive at that place? Is he willing to go slower and wait? Or not?

I sense I could deal with my feelings and get to a state of compersion, but… I need time. We have other issues as well and I can’t cope with everything at once. He feels like I am restricting him more and more, while I am actually working on moving my limits and working through my feelings. He wants to hear about how I move forward, but when I tell him about it, he is not happy at all… I gues he is loosing confidence it is going to happen any time soon. He loves me so much he has adjusted in so many respects I did not know until recently.

Maybe you guys are initially compatible but not deeply compatible. Because how he wants to "do poly" is different than how you want to "do poly."

Have you talked about that?

What can I do or say to him so he will find more patience? Or what can I say to myself to speed up the process and feel comfortable with him meditating or whatever with her?

I think dating is about finding initially compatible people. Then as you date longer, you discover if you are deeply compatible. Not everyone you date is going to be instantly deeply compatible. That's what the dating process is FOR. To get to know people better.

If you are willing but not able right now because you need more time?

And he's not willing to spend more time? Because he's not able to wait?

Then you are not deeply compatible for doing poly together. You have different styles/needs.

I don't know that there is anything you can do to make him change his willingness to wait. If he just doesn't want to wait, then he just doesn't.

And if participating like that doesn't feel good to you? You could bow out of his poly network. Because if you need something slower, you just need something slower.

You have to take care of you. You do not do things that harm you. You have to be able to say "No. I like/love you whole lot. But not even for you will I do stuff that hurts me."

Galagirl

 

[icesong]

I sense I could deal with my feelings and get to a state of compersion, but… I need time. We have other issues as well and I can’t cope with everything at once. He feels like I am restricting him more and more, while I am actually working on moving my limits and working through my feelings. He wants to hear about how I move forward, but when I tell him about it, he is not happy at all… I gues he is loosing confidence it is going to happen any time soon. He loves me so much he has adjusted in so many respects I did not know until recently.

OK, tough advice, here, ok? My instinct is that you need to rip the bandaid. I could write an entire essay as to why, but someone else already did:
http://www.theferrett.com/ferrettworks/2016/03/be-brutally-polyamorous/

 

[Tinwen]

I'm sorry I hear your pain, but I have a hard time empathising here.
Would you be upset if he did a meditation session with someone else? A friend maybe?
If not, please try not to interfere with that stuff. You've put a stop on physical intimacy presumably to get time to process, but restricting his contact even more than you would with a friend ... if you are that uneasy about polyamory, you probably shouldn't do it.
Besides, if they do have sexual impulses they would like to act on (and do not, because they are trying to show you courtesy), meditation is imho a great way to handle these.
I get it wasn't what you expected when you "permitted" him to meet her, but I'm afraid policing their every behaviour in a futile attempt to stop the (already existing!) emotional intimacy is useless, and even cruel.

 

[Shaya]

Hi there.

I realise English is not your first language. I feel we may be misinterpreting your situation. Sometimes, what you describe in words does not have the same meaning as what we read or interpret.

We seem to be all suggesting that you be less controlling of your boyfriend and his secondary's relationship. Can you help us clarify the timeline please because there's a possibility we are misunderstanding something here (because of the language problem). I would personally not advise you until i understand your situation fully.


Q1: It is clear that your only relationship is with him. I feel that he is in a relationship with you and her only. What kind of relationship setup is she currently in?

Q2: perhaps most importantly, what is the timeline involved? Have you and him been dating monogamously for 6 months and then he has hooked back up with her for 2 weeks, with you now struggling to include her in your love life? Or have you been dating for 6 months and struggling all this time with the concept of polyamory? Very importantly, did you start dating him thinking this was going to be a monogamous relationship or did you start dating him knowing he already had or wanted sexual relations with other people?

Q3: On a related but slightly less important question, I am uncertain who met who first? Who had a romantic or sexual relationship with who first? I get the feeling that he met her first. If he met her first, was there a break in their romantic relationship to allow you to then become his primary? Is there some reason he and she are not primaries?

Q4: is there any long distance relationship going on and are they only able to see each other physically due to distance?

Q5: how experienced in relationshipping are each of you? By that I mean how much have the three of you dated others or had sex with others and how stable have your relationships been? (You may find it hard to discuss stability, bit you can talk about the length of each of your relationships instead if you find that easier to put into words due to the language problem.)

Maybe this is clear to other people, but due to the language barrier, I feel it is possible that there has been some misinterpretation of your stated situation in your first post.

 

[PinkPig]

I agree with Tinwen. Meditation, while an intimate and spiritual experience, is not outside the realm of experiences that one could potentially be expected to do with close friends. You agreed to him meeting with her in order to allow you to learn to manage your emotions...this is the experience you asked for, it is the experience you received. Instead of trying to limit his activities in order to manage your feelings, I think you would be wise to delve into why this was so triggering. Allow yourself to experience these emotions and work through them. The more you allow yourself to experience and the more you delve into why you feel what you feel, the stronger you'll become emotionally. That will be better for all your relationships.

 

[Tinwen]

PinkPig is putting it in a much more constructive way. Listen to her

I believe the language and the timeline are pretty clear.
He was dating her as a secondary. Then he started to date you.
When he "put her on the back burner", what were the expectations for the future? For him to date her again "once your relationship is established"?

When he told me he missed her, I said he should meet her to simply talk, catch up with eachother. Without any physical stuff going on, so I could experience whatever feelings would come up.
This did not happen for a while and all of a sudden he told me he had had a meditation session with her (and dinner beforehand and some other non-physical but highly spiritual stuff).

Maybe one more recommendation ... is this one of the things that bothers you? You told him to meet her, and expected communication, but he didn't give you a heads up that he really is going to meet her? So you felt all surprised and shocked?
You could ask if he's willing to tell you before he goes on a date next times. Although, think about it - at least he spared you the "he is on a date" anxious hours

 

[Greenleaf]

more info

Thank you all for responding!

Thank you Shaya for being considerate about the language barrier and asking these questions. I wanted to be brief with my OP, but I realise now that vital information is missing.

I guess all of you are right to suggest I should let go of wanting to control his actions with his secondary. I want to let go. I just had a different picture in my mind of how things would go and how much space, or rather, time, I would get to work through my feelings. Now things happened the way they did and I want to get to terms with it. And… still get the time I think I need. I would like to know if it’s fair to ask him. And if not… How the hell can I get over this when so much stuff is going on? I feel overloaded.

Hi there.

I realise English is not your first language. I feel we may be misinterpreting your situation. Sometimes, what you describe in words does not have the same meaning as what we read or interpret.

We seem to be all suggesting that you be less controlling of your boyfriend and his secondary's relationship. Can you help us clarify the timeline please because there's a possibility we are misunderstanding something here (because of the language problem). I would personally not advise you until i understand your situation fully.


Q1: It is clear that your only relationship is with him. I feel that he is in a relationship with you and her only. What kind of relationship setup is she currently in?

She is in a primary (LAT) relationship with someone else. This is a polyamorous relationship as well. They hooked up when she was secondary with my boyfriend. I think her boyfriend might see someone too, but I'm not sure.

Q2: perhaps most importantly, what is the timeline involved? Have you and him been dating monogamously for 6 months and then he has hooked back up with her for 2 weeks, with you now struggling to include her in your love life? Or have you been dating for 6 months and struggling all this time with the concept of polyamory? Very importantly, did you start dating him thinking this was going to be a monogamous relationship or did you start dating him knowing he already had or wanted sexual relations with other people?

We started dating seriously in january. In march he had big trouble at work. His burnout (of which he thought he was mostly recovered) came back again. I stood by him, helped him out with his 3 children, while seeing him not being himself. This was tough (and sometimes still is).
In april he stated he missed her. I was shocked. We were finally getting relaxed together after a series of hard days. I thought he should have some attention for me now. He did not understand why I was so upset and dissappointed.

I told him they should meet and only talk. My conditions (I did not state in the OP) were I should know beforehand. So I could experience what it feels like before, during and after. Now I only got the after-picture. Which got mixed up with surprise and confusion. Not a good start.

When we started dating, both of us stated to be non-monogamous. He was clear he was in a secondary relationship with her. They had met and hooked up about a year and a half before I came into the picture. He had stated some about their relationship and I thought it was fine. However, I never got the message he was also spiritually close. (I thought they were meeting once every month, mostly talking and having fun, sometimes hvaing sex. Now he wants to meditate with her every week.)

At the beginning he suggested to not meet her for some time. I stated that could be weird. Especially since it might be upsetting once he would start seeing her again. Still he did put the relationship on the back burner and we did not discuss it much. Huge mistakes. And now… surprise! It feels much more complicated since I kind of got used to the mono-like situation. I myself am not interested in a secondary right now. Maybe in 3 years or so…

Q3: On a related but slightly less important question, I am uncertain who met who first? Who had a romantic or sexual relationship with who first? I get the feeling that he met her first. If he met her first, was there a break in their romantic relationship to allow you to then become his primary? Is there some reason he and she are not primaries?

Much was answered under 2. They have had a time where they could have had a chance to become primaries and they did not. They both feel they are not right for eachother in that way. And from what I have seen from her, I agree. I am not worried he is going to leave me for her. I am worried right now that she will be taking up too much of our time together. Not only by seeing eachother every week, but also by the way he is so consumed by his new experiences with her. He keeps talking about it days after. Since we have the kids running around, there really is not much time to talk at all. And we have other stuff we need to deal with within the next 5 weeks.

Q4: is there any long distance relationship going on and are they only able to see each other physically due to distance?

Distance is not the issue between the two of them. Of course, time management is. They both have busy lives.

Q5: how experienced in relationshipping are each of you? By that I mean how much have the three of you dated others or had sex with others and how stable have your relationships been? (You may find it hard to discuss stability, bit you can talk about the length of each of your relationships instead if you find that easier to put into words due to the language problem.)

Maybe this is clear to other people, but due to the language barrier, I feel it is possible that there has been some misinterpretation of your stated situation in your first post.

My boyfriend has had a long term relationship of 12 years that ended a year ago. Their relationship had become an empty shell many years before. They opened up to poly about two years before the break up. Their relationship flourished for a while but then ended after all.
I have been serial monogamous. I ended my first 2 serious relationships (both of 2 years) once I fell in love with someone new. Then I had a 9 year long relationship in which I eventually started cheating (I’m not proud). Of course, this ended. When I was in a new relationship I thought this would not happen to me again. It did. Then I decided I wanted my next relationship to be open. And here we are…

 

[Greenleaf]

When he "put her on the back burner", what were the expectations for the future? For him to date her again "once your relationship is established"?

Yes. However, none of us expressed a clear idea of what that would mean: "once our relationship is established."

Maybe one more recommendation ... is this one of the things that bothers you? You told him to meet her, and expected communication, but he didn't give you a heads up that he really is going to meet her? So you felt all surprised and shocked?
You could ask if he's willing to tell you before he goes on a date next times. Although, think about it - at least he spared you the "he is on a date" anxious hours

LOL.
I was actually looking forward to being anxious and working it through. I thought I had been pretty clear I wanted the heads up and be able to talk about it with him beforehand. Hence the shock.
After expressing my shock, this thing happened again.
So we had a row and NOW it is clear to him. I told him I wanted to know two days beforehand. So I could really feel and work through all that comes up. He explicitely agreed and I was glad.

And then... appointments were changed and he told me on the day of the evening they would meet. I did not tell him no and did some of the work that I had wanted to do all along. But still it felt very confusing by all of the rush. I guess I am really longing for some peace and quiet.

 

[GalaGirl]

Now things happened the way they did and I want to get to terms with it. And… still get the time I think I need. I would like to know if it’s fair to ask him. And if not… How the hell can I get over this when so much stuff is going on? I feel overloaded.

Yes. You can ask. You do your part of the job. If you want to know stuff? You have to ask. You cannot be a mind reader.

How he responds? If he's willing to give it or not? Communicating all that is his part of the job.

You sound like you are willing to work things through on your end. You've asked if he's willing to give you a heads up.

I guess he's trying to give you the communication heads up you requested? I'm not entirely clear on that. You may have to figure out if he's doing his side of the job well enough for you to keep on going or not.

Galagirl

 

[Shaya]

Hi Greenleaf,

Thanks for explaining your situation in so much more depth. You write very well, by the way.

The other posters all seemed to understand what you meant. Only I was confused. I'd agree with icesong's "rip the bandaid", Tinwen and Pinkpig's explanation of meditation and Galagirl often gives a lot of advice that can look wise when you read it a second time a week later.

I don't have any more practical advice to add, but there is something in psychology that might (or might not) be relevant. Bear in mind that psychology is one of the subjective sciences and tends to make generalisations that are true in the majority of people but are not always true. When psychology say wrong things about us, it can feel pretty insulting. Well thankfully, i'm not a psychologist so if I say something wrong, you can just ignore me.

So, having said that I may be totally wrong, I thought I'd share that when you explained your history of relationships, I wondered if you live with an idea of love that might be helpful to revise before doing polyamory. In your adult life, every time you or another person has loved a third person, this act has signified the end of the original romantic relationship. In the case of your affair, it was probably a very painful time for you. Psychologically, your brain may have learnt through trial and error that love for a third will most likely destroy the current relationship. Although you understand intellectually that polyamory has the potential to be different, our emotions are sometimes based more on feeling than logic. If you have felt and experienced your whole life that love for a third inevitably leads to the destruction of a previous relationship (and you may have seen this with friends, family and also with yourself), it would make sense why you feel so insecure when your boyfriend displays affection for someone else. While some level of insecurity, fear and jealousy is normal, if you feel you experience this more than most others, i would point to your life experiences as the likely reason why. In short, how we interpret love today is often based on how we've experienced love in the past. Pinkpig suggested identifing the cause of your insecurity and working through it and i think you might find yourself in a happier place if you can work through this.

Hope it helps. And remember. It's psychology. It's not always correct. Feel free to ignore it if you feel we're getting it wrong.

Good luck, Greenleaf, and best wishes. Hope you feel better soon.
Shaya.

 

[Tinwen]

And then... appointments were changed and he told me on the day of the evening they would meet. I did not tell him no and did some of the work that I had wanted to do all along. But still it felt very confusing by all of the rush. I guess I am really longing for some peace and quiet.

It's unfortunate he couldn't hear you and then couldn't hold his word. Hopefully he's trying. (For some people, it's hard to make appointments two days in advance, which I used to be very puzzled by until I got a more full lifestyle .)

It sound like your road is bumpy, but you are working through things.
This is probably kind of a first crisis in the relationship with your boyfriend, so you can learn a lot from it about how the two of you function. IMHO you're not doing "badly" with polyamory. Good luck

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Greenleaf,

It sounds like the thing to do at this time is to reinforce with your boyfriend that you need two days notice on any date he will go on with someone else. If he's still willing to give you two days notice. And maybe you won't always need that, but you need it for now.

Is your boyfriend seeing just two people right now? you and his secondary? I wanted to make sure I got that part right.

I hope things will go better for you in the near future.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.