Help with partner's new relationship

[PinkPig]

My partner, Blue, & I have been together for two years. Our lives are intertwined....he spends time with my children, stays over night most nights. We all take vacations together. He maintains his own home so that he has a place to host other women when he's dating. I've tried dating but between my kids and work, just don't feel like I have the time or emotional resources for another relationship. Maybe a fwb.....I'm on okc for this reason. We both prefer a kitchen table style poly. That's our background info.

Blue has started a new relationship with a woman I'll call Bronze. The relationship has become sexual (Blue doesn't do casual sex so when he starts a sexual relationship, it's a given that he sees some degree of future potential.) I've never met Bronze. That wouldn't bother me except that today he confessed to me that she does not want to meet me and is not comfortable discussing me.....monogamy is her preference and she prefers to just act like I don't exist.

I'm not even sure how to articulate how I feel? Shaky and insecure, for one because this is not how he generally conducts relationships. And sad because how can he make plans to merge homes with me while dating someone who wants to pretend I don't exist? And maybe a little angry, too. Plus it triggers negative feelings from the crazy relationship he was in when we first started dating which devolved from a cordial relationship into a crazy dadt. Am I right to be concerned? Or am I overthinking? I did tell him that I had concerns because it triggered old feelings from that past experience and because I felt like the behavior may be cowgirlish. I didn't confide the extent of my feelings. Thoughts and/or advice?

Edited to add: it's not so much the fact that she doesn't want to meet me that bothers me. It's the dadt aspect that really concerns me. Am I right to be concerned or am I blowing this out of proportion?

 

[clalb]

I´m sorry about that situation.

I was in similar situation about 5 months ago, where the new and intense woman just didn´t acknowledge me and wanted a monogamy. She was a cowgirl and we had lots of trouble because of that. She didn´t respect me, our relationship (sure, she tried to ignore it), wanted to break our golden rule. Sure enough he was playing along in his huge NRE...it was extremely painful for me.

In my ideal poly world, I would be able to meet my metamours and talk about expectations, schedule, etc, since my partner and I have been together for a longer time. So no one comes short and everyone feels empowered. I know some people don´t want that, and that´s fine, but they have to respect and recognize our exisiting relationship.

I don´t want to go in that situation again, where someone just pretends I don´t exist. That´s a huge red flag for me.

I would try to talk to him about it, how respect for other people involved is important for you...

It´s important to say, though, I do tend to overthink stuff. But my experience was horrible. I hope yours won´t be and maybe some other people have nicer things to say. I´m sorry.

 

[FallenAngelina]

.... I felt like the behavior may be cowgirlish. I didn't confide the extent of my feelings. Thoughts and/or advice?

There really is no such thing as a "cowgirl" in that nobody can just ride into town and swoop up a man and claim him all to herself if he is not willing. There is no "cowgirl" on earth whose feminine charms are so powerful as to turn a man away from people he holds dear. Always, always the "temptation" is the conflict that already resides in the man. Whatever happens here, it will be because Blue is participating, not because Bronze has "cowgirl" superpowers. If you and Blue value kitchen table poly, this is an opportunity to clarify that in your relationship. It's really not about Bronze, it's about what she brings up for you & Blue.

 

[Inyourendo]

It is possible to be in a relationship with a poly person and hate that they have multiple relationships. Sure she might want to pretend you don't exist and wish she had him all to himself but he controls that, not her. I'm inclined to think that a poly person won't leave their other partners to become monogamous with them, just doesn't sound like a smart move to become restricted that way. I wouldn't worry about it since you said you didn't really care if you met her anyway

 

[PinkPig]

Thank you all. I feel more objective and less emotional after a night's sleep!

I don´t want to go in that situation again, where someone just pretends I don´t exist. That´s a huge red flag for me.

It feels like a red-flag to me, too. But, I recognize that some of that is fear that things could become crazy again like with my first metamour. It also dredges up that feeling of being 'the other woman' that I felt with that metamour because she was in his life first and because she preferred to pretend that I didn't exist....lots of sex-negative feelings! I thought we'd worked through the issues surrounding that metamour, but if I'm feeling triggered, obviously there needs to be more discussion between us. And more work on my part.

I'm inclined to think that a poly person won't leave their other partners to become monogamous with them, just doesn't sound like a smart move to become restricted that way. I wouldn't worry about it since you said you didn't really care if you met her anyway

Thank you, inyourendo. Just reading that is reassuring. Blue doesn't want to be monogamous. He has a past history of failed monogamous relationship. He's been very clear to me and his previous partners that he does not want a monogamous relationship. He says he was very clear about what he wants with Bronze, too. I'm inclined to believe him because Blue is nothing, if not clear about his desires Including his desire to have me as an integral part of his life.

Whatever happens here, it will be because Blue is participating, not because Bronze has "cowgirl" superpowers. If you and Blue value kitchen table poly, this is an opportunity to clarify that in your relationship. It's really not about Bronze, it's about what she brings up for you & Blue.

Yes, FallenAngelina, you're absolutely right. I know that no one can come between us if we don't allow it. It all circles back to the beginnings of our relationship and my own self worth. Plus some of the monogamous conditioning that I haven't completely ditched yet. I think I need to do some more processing and then discuss this with Blue in further detail. Your post was very helpful in clarifying my thoughts and feelings.

 

[MightyMax]

I would feel it is a red flag. I would feel insecure. However, I am aware that people can have relationships under those terms which do not implode or overwhelm other relationships. There are people who genuinely understand and accept that their partner is polyamorous but need this sort of arrangement to be able to not let it affect their relationship with them. I would wait and see how it pans out if this relationship works for you in every other way.

Saying that, I know enough to know that these sorts of arrangements aren't something that I particularly want in my network*. I wrote a post before about a metamour, Elise, who started out by saying that she doesn't want to meet me or anyone else yet which I found a red flag at the time but I am glad I stuck it out now. She's one of my best friends. I wouldn't have been as willing to sit with my discomfort if she said she doesn't ever want to meet me, and I would be hugely uncomfortable if our partner were unable to talk about me/our relationship with someone they were dating. Not that I expect to be a routine or even frequent topic of conversation, but the idea of her being prohibited from it seems abhorrent to me. It directly opposes one of the reasons I enjoy polyamorous relationships. But maybe Blue doesn't share that desire in his relationships and he is only realizing now that although it's nice, it not a necessity, and not worth forgoing a potential relationship with someone otherwise compatible. That's what my partner decided when Elise was reluctant to meet any of her partners in the early days. I think it was around eight months in that we finally met her.



*our network consists of about 10 people who are either in a committed romantic and/or sexual relationship with at least one other member and firm friends with at least some of the rest; we worked out a definition the other day!).Of course, we all date outside of the "network" and some partners never really become fully fledged "members". However, history has shown that partners who were fundamentally opposed to it didn't last very long. If they were never willing to hang out with other people with whom we may share emotional and/or sexual intimacy, we were unable to spend enough time with them to really build anything significant. It wasn't a rule, it was an inevitable consequence.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

My boyfriend and his wife are DADT. I don't like it, but it's not the end of the world.

If you prefer a kitchen table style poly, and the new partner prefers DADT, that is going to be a conflict eventually if he continues to date her. I agree with FallenAngelina that you should probably talk to Blue about this. You said you don't really need to meet her, will you still feel that way if they're still together a year from now? If he's spending 3 nights a week with her? Just something I wish I'd thought about sooner, I learned by trial and error that I have very different needs with new or casual partners than in long term serious relationships.

It sounds like you and Blue have a great thing going. I say enjoy it and let Bronze's preference for monogamy be her issue to deal with in her relationship with Blue.

 

[LizziE]

I would be concerned and freaked out too. If I were in your shoes, I would remember the things that you've said, that Blue absolutely isn't in to monogamy, and that he will stay true to himself (as it sounds like he has for years), which means continuing to be poly and have a relationship with you, as well as Bronze.

And then I'd give it time. As much as it sucks, I think it sounds like you really just need more time to see that Blue is sticking to him principals of being poly, even if he is dating someone who seems to want DADT.

I would also bring it up with him, and ask for reassurance/emotional check-ins, just to make sure you're both on the same page.

For me, the last few months since Jon broke up with Lora, we've been doing a check-in about twice a month. He still feels ambivalent about whether or not he wants her in his life at all. Every couple of weeks, I get antsy because I feel like enough time has passed that I don't know what he's feeling about her, so I ask. We have a quick check in on his feelings, and mine (if I've had any feelings/new realizations in therapy), I feel reassured that I know what's going on in his mind, and we both move on until I ask again in a few weeks.

And FTR, these are quick conversations. It's not like we have a big emotional talk every few weeks. It's usually just a 5-10 minute check-in that yes, he still feels ambivalent for certain reasons (the major one is that he's still not sure if she genuinely WANTS to be his friend, as she says, or if she's staying friends with him because she's planning on pressuring him to be in a romantic relationship again once the dust settles. So it's kinda big waiting game). Then we move on.

It's possible that having check-ins like that would help you. Sometimes just a quick reaffirmation of how things are can do wonders.

 

[PinkPig]

Yeah, I'm not feeling so great about it, again. I'm working from home today so I broached the subject when he came by for lunch. She definitely doesn't want to know or hear anything about me. Even schedule wise, she just wants him to say he's busy or with a friend. He's willing to play along. I'm not comfortable with that. I'm not sure where that leaves us (though I didn't tell him that. I want to work through my thoughts/feelings first.)

Thanks, everyone.

 

[FallenAngelina]

He's willing to play along.

Doesn't fit with:

He's been very clear to me and his previous partners that he does not want a monogamous relationship. He says he was very clear about what he wants with Bronze, too.

Out of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, he chooses two women in two years who are decidedly not polyamorous. Your insecurities aside, Pink, you might just ask him what this is all about.

 

[PinkPig]

Doesn't fit with:

Agreed. This is why I'm not sure where this leaves us. I'm going to take some time to really work through my feelings before I broach the subject again. He said he was very up front about me/the importance of our relationship; however, she said she is not comfortable meeting me or discussing me/our relationship. He thinks it's a matter of time (that she'll come around.) But, if he's willing to play along, then what incentive does she have to 'come around.'

Definitely not feeling so great today.

I don't know if it matters but the original metamour (from when we met) was a swinger. She's still in the lifestyle. It's the emotional connection that was the problem.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Even schedule wise, she just wants him to say he's busy or with a friend. He's willing to play along.

In my experience, this can work if one (or both) of the relationships is a pretty low-key, dating type thing... Not so much if both relationships are intense, entwined, spending a ton of time together LTRs.

Honestly, if he's just thinking of dating her casually, I think he can do that without crossing her DADT boundary. And you could probably work with him to find ways to ease the insecurity you feel about him spending an occasional night with someone who wants nothing to do with you.

More than that, it can get tricky. Again, just my experience with it... If Bronze expects him to fake being her full time monogamous boyfriend, there's only so much "busy with friends!" he can have before it becomes an issue.

Has Blue talked to you about what kind of relationship he eventually wants to have with Bronze? Is he thinking one or two dates a week, and that's it? Is he open to having something similar with her to what he has with you? Or does that all kind of depend on whether she "comes around"

 

[River]

I don't know the whole story here. I've skimmed some, read some. I know there is a DADT thing in the picture.

Given my experience with DADT, I'd not have anything to do with 'em again. Never. Mostly because almost always they imply a great, unbridgable distance between the one in the DADT arrangement and his/her "outside" partner, and I'm all about creating lasting, loving bonds. DADT lends itself well to very casual, mostly sexual relationships (which, to me, are not quite relationships at all and not at all appealing to me).

 

[LizziE]

Agreed. This is why I'm not sure where this leaves us. I'm going to take some time to really work through my feelings before I broach the subject again.

I think that's a really great idea. I'm the same way. I would rather hold off on talking about something for a bit, and make sure that I have a handle on my feelings and exactly why something is bothering me. If I don't do that, sometimes I mess up (and get really frustrated and angry with myself) because I can't quite express how I feel/what I mean - because I haven't put it into words for myself yet.

He said he was very up front about me/the importance of our relationship; however, she said she is not comfortable meeting me or discussing me/our relationship. He thinks it's a matter of time (that she'll come around.) But, if he's willing to play along, then what incentive does she have to 'come around.'

re: the bolded. In my experience, that is always a recipe for disaster. Always. She DOESN'T have any incentive to come around. What she DOES have an incentive to do is note that Blue may say that something is important to him, but if she doesn't want to have anything to do with it, he'll abide by her rules.

Were I in Blue's shoes, I would say to her at the least "If you don't want to meet my other partner right now, that's fine. However, when I am with her, I am going to say that I am with her. I will not pretend she doesn't exist, just to suit you. If that is too much for you, then we shouldn't date" and THEN she what she does. Because maybe with exposure to it, over time, she'd get more comfortable with it and be comfortable with him being poly.

But if he's just going to abide by her insistence that your name is verboten, then there's nothing that she needs to change, because she's going to be happy with things just the way they are.

If being poly is 100% necessary for Blue, it sounds like you're going to be nursing him through a broken heart in a few months/years, potentially while gritting your teeth on "I KNEW this was going to happen! How could you not see that?"

 

[FallenAngelina]

DADT is often a rocky road, not because the policy is flawed, but because the people involved are often not clear about what they want. Often DADT is a rest stop along the way to something with much more clarity, although there have been great lovers throughout history (and in the present, of course) who have managed ongoing and deep love affairs via DADT. As always, it's about what the individuals bring to the party, not the party decorations.

....if I'm feeling triggered, obviously there needs to be more discussion between us. And more work on my part. ..... It all circles back to the beginnings of our relationship and my own self worth.

As for your inner work, Pink, that's always a fruitful effort. You'll take your education with you wherever you go. So very much of what "triggers" us and needles at us is about our own self worth and no matter what Blue is able to articulate in this situation, your perception of your own value is EVERYTHING. Your feeling solid about yourself and what you want is in no way dependent on what he may or may not be able to know for himself.

 

[PinkPig]

Has Blue talked to you about what kind of relationship he eventually wants to have with Bronze? Is he thinking one or two dates a week, and that's it? Is he open to having something similar with her to what he has with you? Or does that all kind of depend on whether she "comes around"

His ideal is two long-term, deeply involved relationships. Preferably, he'd like to all live together. He hasn't wavered in his desire for that. (Note: he hasn't stated that as his intention with Bronze, but it's his long-term vision.)

He also, as recently as last week, expressed some concern that he & Bronze aren't a good fit....and yet, he's taken the relationship to the next level. I'm not sure what he's thinking in regards to her. He sees her 1-2 times/week and hasn't had a sleepover yet because of her insane work schedule.

DADT lends itself well to very casual, mostly sexual relationships (which, to me, are not quite relationships at all and not at all appealing to me).

For all intents and purposes, that's what this relationship looks like except that Blue doesn't do casual (at least not the last 15 yrs) for the same reasons that you don't. But, he does have a really high sex drive, he likes variety, and we've been functionally monogamous for several months now so maybe that's it?

I think for now, I'll be patient and see how it plays out. I definitely plan to discuss it more, but I think I need a little more time to get my emotions in check before broaching the subject. I really am not comfortable with DADT.

As for your inner work, Pink, that's always a fruitful effort. You'll take your education with you wherever you go. So very much of what "triggers" us and needles at us is about our own self worth and no matter what Blue is able to articulate in this situation, your perception of your own value is EVERYTHING. Your feeling solid about yourself and what you want is in no way dependent on what he may or may not be able to know for himself.

Yes, definitely. I've made a lot of progress in this area since my divorce. But, I still have a long way to go!

 

[PinkPig]

But if he's just going to abide by her insistence that your name is verboten, then there's nothing that she needs to change, because she's going to be happy with things just the way they are.

If being poly is 100% necessary for Blue, it sounds like you're going to be nursing him through a broken heart in a few months/years, potentially while gritting your teeth on "I KNEW this was going to happen! How could you not see that?"

This actually helped, Lizzie. My insecurities want to tell me that he's ok with a DADT with her because he likes her more than me. But, being poly is necessary for Blue. He had a string of disastrous mono relationships prior to coming out poly and has no desire to go back. I don't want him to have a broken heart if this ends badly,but even more, I don't want drama and chaos. That I did tell him...as much as I love him, I won't stick around for chaos and drama.

 

[IndieSolo]

I can kind of see two sides to this.

Often I am one of the first to defend someone's choice not to meet a metamour, because I fly solo and like to keep my relationships separate. Kitchen Table Poly, no thanks. It works for me not to feel obligated to meet a meta, yet total DADTs are still problematic because while I don't always feel a need to meet a metamour and would hate to be pressured into doing so, I feel it's necessary to acknowledge their existence and they mine!

Part of MightMax's post is pretty close to my initial thoughts upon reading your posts, PinkPig:

. . . I would be hugely uncomfortable if our partner were unable to talk about me/our relationship with someone they were dating. Not that I expect to be a routine or even frequent topic of conversation, but the idea of her being prohibited from it seems abhorrent to me.

At some point, people who are in poly arrangements need to accept the fact that their partner has other partners who are important to them. If a person can't do that, won't acknowledge that their metamours exist, and don't want to hear about them, there is a lot of growing up that needs to be done, IMHO, if they want their relationship to flourish and be healthy.

And yet, I also see no reason why Blue has to volunteer an explanation why or why not he has time open on his calendar. If I'm dating several people and asked when I am available, I see it as a yes or no question, and don't necessarily see why I would owe anyone a reason why I can't. I just say something like, "I'm not able to on that night; how about this night?" However (another flip side to the coin), if asked what I am doing on a certain day, I feel no reason to hide that I am going to be with someone else. I think it's okay if she doesn't want to ask, and okay that she'd rather he not volunteer that info.

He said he was very up front about me/the importance of our relationship; however, she said she is not comfortable meeting me or discussing me/our relationship. He thinks it's a matter of time (that she'll come around.) But, if he's willing to play along, then what incentive does she have to 'come around.'

What also occurred to me, PinkPig, after I read the above, is that, well... everyone's been talking about what kind of relationship Blue and you want, but we don't know what kind of relationship this new person wants. Obviously, since he's been straight up with her about you and where you two are heading, she knows he is committed to someone other than her. She knows there is a limit to what she can have with him if she pretends forever that you don't exist. She'd have to be delusional not to. And so it is quite possible, even if she has no experience with nor desire for polyamory, that a more casual type of ongoing relationship is what works for her. A few times a week, let's just stay in our little bubble and focus on us, don't want to see the larger parts of your life, thankyouverymuch. Yes, there are monogamists who do not always angle for the white picket fence and such!

Also, DADT might be the only way she can think of right now to deal with whatever issues she may have regarding his having another partner. If polyamory is something very new and odd to her, she doesn't have experience coping with it, and might even think it's just plain weird. So her saying, "Okay, don't tell me about her or what you're doing, I just want to focus on what we have," might seem like the best way in her mind to see if this is a relationship she wants to move forward with. And his agreeing to not explaining what he's doing nor mentioning you is actually a compassionate way to help her at this point, I think. She might have the type of tender/sensitive personality where changes or confronting new ideas and approaches need to be gradual, and where a "rip the Band-Aid off" kind of facing reality is too harsh or obtrusive for her.

I would tend to assume, however, that if she does eventually want a less casual thing -- or after she gets used to the idea that you are an integral part of his life -- she will warm up to being able to broach the subject and maybe even meet you someday.

So, if I were you, I would try not to catastrophize the situation in your mind and just keep a wait-and-see approach. His other relationship will follow its own course, as will yours. There is no need to create drama in your relationship with him by worrying about hers.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Just thinking of you, Pink Pig, and wondering how you're doing.

 

[PinkPig]

So, if I were you, I would try not to catastrophize the situation in your mind and just keep a wait-and-see approach. His other relationship will follow its own course, as will yours. There is no need to create drama in your relationship with him by worrying about hers.

Thank you, nycindie, for your perspective. ^^This is exactly what I'm trying to do (I am wont to catastrophizing, a habit I'm working to break.) Blue is more relaxed in his approach to life which has been very helpful to me in my quest to relax (as opposed to planning for every possible contingency :/.) I am trying to focus on our relationship at the moment and let go of his relationship with Bronze and any possible outcome between them. I know at some point we'll need to discuss where he thinks it may be headed, and how that will affect us....but it's still so new, I think we probably need to see if it's even going to grow first. At least, that's what I keep telling myself, lol. It helps that nothings changed in the frequency of their communication or time together. It doesn't appear to be escalating in intensity any for having become sexual.

Just thinking of you, Pink Pig, and wondering how you're doing.

Thank you, FallenAngelina. I'm feeling better. Still a little shaky. In all other areas, Blue is just being Blue...consistent in his attention and affection towards me and my children. The NRE with Bronze doesn't appear to be affecting us negatively (but then Blue's always been great at funneling some of the NRE from new relationships into his existing relationships, at least in my experience.) Before their relationship became sexual, he was texting her in my presence, more frequently than I was comfortable with. We discussed it, and he's been consistently limiting their texting (we spend a lot of time together so it would be unreasonable, imo, to not text at all.) I feel better. Still slightly unsettled, but better.