How do I deal with lying/hiding?

N

NOXian

New member
Intro thread explains the start of this particular relationship: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70810

Currently at the point where my wife and her boyfriend are in love, he openly talks about wanting her all to himself and pushes to know that she wants that too. She finally admitted last night that she had lied to me about a few things (things she told him and going to see him right after we argued), shared private information about me to him, and confided in him when she and I had a disagreement.

This behavior is a pattern. I thought she'd outgrow it over the years, but it's clear this is who she is. I don't know how to get past this feeling of betrayal. Any suggestions from the experts?
 
What is the pattern? Lying about where she'll be and with whom? Venting to others about you? Who else does she do this with or is it a pattern only with this fella?

Having her bf pressuring her to turn their relationship to monogamous with him would require her to divorce you. He is not a friend to the relationship. Not a friend; friends WANT good things for you and respect your relationships. She has deep feelings for him and without valuing poly for the changes it brings, people tend to go with the old script. This all includes possessiveness = love and desire. But it isn't loving to want to limit the sources of love and regard for a person. Its the conflict found in practicing poly with the body while having mono on the brain. He loves her? That he'd love to reduce the amount of loving people in her life is the reality. And to avoid the negative realization; that someone she loves wants less love for her, is achieved by running to him with instances where you become not her loving husband but someone he might be honorable in wanting to eliminate.

What is the gripe that caused the arguments? Are they all about this cowboy? Or do you have a history with a reoccurring unrelated issue?
 
She's actually done this in the past. Although we're new to the poly type of relationship, we've had an open marriage for awhile. She gets caught up in the newness, which I get, but she pulls away. When I ask that she balance things out a little better, she gets irritated. In the past she's lied about stupid things like talking to someone or hearing from someone. I didn't care that she talked to the person, but lying about it made me wonder if I should care. This was several years ago, so I chalked it up to a learning experience (She's nine years younger than I) and assumed she'd grow out of it knowing how much it hurt me.

Again, she's pulled away and I ask for some balance with her time and attention. She gets defensive and we argue. Now, she turns to him after we argue. Yesterday, she and I weren't doing well. She leaves and goes to see him. When she finally told me the truth about that, she said that with the mood i was in, there was no way she could tell me about going to see him. I asked, why go see him if you know i'm going to be upset. Her answer: because I wanted to see him.
 
It sounds like she is being inconsiderate of your feelings and boundaries. It also sounds like she has difficulty being honest with you, especially if she suspects she will get a response she doesn't like. (e.g. not telling you she was going to see her boyfriend because you would have gotten upset; instead of telling you and accepting it if you said you wanted her to stay home, she chose to just go and not tell you.)

You have the right to ask that she not share personal, private details about you with her other partner(s).

You have the right to ask her not to share details about her relationship with you, especially disputes and disagreements, with her other partner(s).

Given that her boyfriend has stated that he "wants her to himself", you have the right to express to her that you feel he is threatening the marriage and would like____ (your choice. Do you want her to stop seeing him period? Stop seeing him as much? Tell him that there's no way in hell she's leaving you?)

You have the right to make her aware of how her behavior causes you to feel.

However, she has the right to react and respond however she chooses; she might continue her current behavior or even increase it. Or she might recognize the problems and agree to work with you to fix things.

Now that I've been all logical and rational and stuff, I have to say that any partner of mine who had a history of being dishonest with me, sharing things they've been asked not to share, and not sticking to agreements that we've made would not be a partner of mine for long. I don't have a tolerance for that kind of thing. But what works for me doesn't work for everyone; you have to decide what's best for you in this situation.
 
Sounds like that divorce scenario where the child has a guilty feeling parent she can run to when the "mean" parent places boundaries or expectations. Was this her?

You've known her long enough to know all her flaws. You still love her but that doesn't mean you'll love everything she does. He gets idealized her. They don't live together so he doesn't see her flaws as clearly and has less opportunity to see them. Less criticism out of him. You're the mean daddy!

Has this occurred to her that she's using you to gain his approval? She doesn't have to risk him seeing her bad side. Has this occurred to you? She sounds like she needs some individual therapy and a little more accountability for her actions. The answer isn't stop placing expectations on her. I'd let her know she's playing a losing hand and nice daddy might not like her bratty side either once he has it all to himself.
 
I am really sorry you are dealing in this. :(

This behavior is a pattern. I thought she'd outgrow it over the years, but it's clear this is who she is
Click to expand...

If you have long known she can be like this? Could stop expecting her to be different. She's not acting out of character. The betrayal is you having unrealistic expectations of her abilities. Maybe you thought she'd be (instant, awesome hinge) rather than (person on a hinge learning curve who will go with her less than stellar character traits when wonky.)

Being emotionally up front and honest is a skill. Some people take longer to learn it, own it, and DO IT consistently. Feelings and talking about feelings makes them squirmy. Is that excuse? NO. Does that mean you expect nothing? NO. Hold her accountable to reasonable, MEASURABLE things. Could change your way of interacting with her.

If you saying "Can I expect you to balance your time better? " means nothing to her? Time and again? Because while that's enough for other people to get a clue and figure it out, it is not enough for HER. You might have to get more specific in your requests.

  • "Can I expect you to hang up the cel phone during dinner hour with me?" is concrete action all can see to measure.
  • "Can I expect you to put your BF dates on our google calendar so I can know ahead of time what is going on? And not worry I come home to an empty house like something happened to you?" It is on the calendar or not. Anyone can see. Plan your own dates with her and get them on there.
  • "Can I expect you to keep up with your share of house chores even though you are dating?" is concrete. The laundry washed or not. Anyone can see.
  • "I get you are on a learning curve here. So am I. Can I expect you to not lie and just tell me you slipped up in future? Can I expect you to try to limit it? Some mistakes are part of the learning process. Racking up 10, 30, 300 lies is carelessness."
  • "Can I expect you not to share private information about me to him like ____? Sex health labs, fine. That we had a tiff and it affects your mood on a date with him, fine. But no deep details like ____. If you need to vent safely, we can get a counselor. Just someone not IN the polyship right now. Is that agreeable?"

Focus on what you want MORE of, not what you do not want. Praise her when you notice improvements or progress in her ability to be up front and emotionally honest. Encourage her in that direction. If she is not willing to do something, accept it. "Ok. Thanks for considering it." Express your disappointment elsewhere for now.

Stop phrasing it as "her pulling away from you" like competition language. Because point blank -- if he is a cowboy and she wants to be roped off? She's gonna go. Nothing you can do to stop it. But if she doesn't want to go you behaving that way can put a wedge between you that doesn't need to be there if she takes it defensively/personally. Use "I" statements -- "I feel lonely for you, I crave extra connection with you during transition time."

If this is about her meeting your needs -- focus on that and ask. "Could you be willing to..?" Straight up. She is either willing or not.

  • Could she be willing to read poly hell with you and discuss how she can help ease that for you?
  • Could she be willing to read this together to see if that also could help? Esp page 5 & 6?

Ask if she is willing to engage with you, just you, about your side of V stuff. Use that counselor yourself to vent. Transitioning to a polyship is challenging for people. It's ok to get support.

She sounds caught up in lala's. I can imagine it is hard to do, but ignore her relationship with the cowboy on THAT side of the V at this time beyond calendar. Do not bother to figure out what it is she sees in him.


he openly talks about wanting her all to himself and pushes to know that she wants that too.
Click to expand...

You don't have to love him. You could call it into account when he does it in front of you and her. Something like...

"I'm not wild about how he says he wants you for himself and pushes you for love declarations like that in front of me. That is not loving or respectful of you -- acting like you are a THING for us to fight over rather than as a real live PERSON with will or voice of your own. Or pushing you to say things if you are not ready.

If you want to be with both of us, I prefer he talk about you more respectfully in my presence. If you decide you don't want to be with me, we can talk that out privately between you and me. If you decide you don't want to be with him, you work it out with him.

But talking like you are a THING in front of me is not cool. I do not accept that. Dude, stop doing that behavior. Are you willing to apologize to her for talking about her like she's an object and being pushy in front of me? She deserves better, more respectful treatment than that. You could treat her like the lady she is."​

Keep it on his behavior. Not his character or personhood even if in the privacy of your own head you think he is a scuzzbucket. If he's not willing, she has her own eyes and ears to see how he treats her and how he is choosing to behave when you call him on it.

She either will come to her senses and see his obnoxious behavior for what it is once the lala's wear off and appreciate you being solid throughout.

Or she basically is checking out and wants to be roped off. You can ask her if she's heading that way and if she is happier breaking up with you. Just take the bull by the horns. Then you know where you stand and you are not being strung along.

But ultimately her willingness to engage with you belongs to her. She either chooses to participate in the relationship with you in a way you enjoy or she doesn't participate in a way you enjoy or does not participate at all.

Assess, then evaluate from there what your next choices are.

Again, I am really sorry you are dealing in this. :(

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Thank you, everyone for your input. This all came crashing down about a week ago. Through all the lies and betrayal, I don't even know if we'll stay married at this point. We closed our marriage off last week, but she has continued contact with him, despite telling me she hasn't. Yes, I've accessed her email and confirmed. Spare me the snooping lectures. It's not what I do, but when I know shit's going down, then I'll take steps to protect myself.
 
I'm sorry to hear that it is going wacky for you right now. :(

Hang in there as you sort out your next steps...

Galagirl
 
My wife and I lived in a MFF relationship for almost 4 decades and it survived mainly because we never took on outside lovers. We shared all of our lovers and our marriage came first.

Due to our different marriage, at least back in the early 70's, our friend tended to be those into various lifestyles that allowed one or both spouses to have outside lovers. We saw them get divorced over time as one of the spouses ran off with their lover. I have learned that a new lover is always more exciting than a wife who nags you about doing chores, spending too much and dealing with paying bills and all the other stuff that goes into a marriage that a lover does not have to deal with. They are there for the fun and games so it is natural for a wife or husband to be more attracted to them.

I would not allow my wife to have a lover that we did not share, male or female. I have not seen it work out well for many couples we have known over the course of our marriage. I would not even want to risk me having a lover as I know that I form emotional bonds with women I have sex with. We are built that way.

As others have suggested, if you want to remain married to a wife who does not hold her marriage as primary and second to none, they ask her for a decision. I see no happy ending. Even if she agrees to your terms, she is going to be unhappy and a happy wife equals a happy life.
 
Digging deeper.

Do you want to know how to get over the emotions of feeling betrayed
or
Do you want to know if you should put up with it
or
Do you want to know how to fix the issues that created the mess
or
Do you want to feel like it's ok to want to end it
or
Something else altogether?
 
- I don't know how to get over being betrayed (and I don't think I could, even if I did know).
- I won't put up with her behavior anymore.
- The issues that led to this have been identified and a session has been scheduled with a marriage counselor.
- I know it's okay to end it. I'm just trying to find any way back if I can. We have a 17 month old girl that I owe it to.
- the last thing is that, after telling me she's ended it three times, she was still talking to him even until last night.

Divorce is a very real option and one that I'm leaning towards. I just can't understand why it took getting to this place for her to come begging for another chance today.
 
So you two opened your marriage to other people, and when it became a problem for you, she was supposed to toss aside this other person like a used marital aid?

He loves her? That he'd love to reduce the amount of loving people in her life is the reality. And to avoid the negative realization; that someone she loves wants less love for her, is achieved by running to him with instances where you become not her loving husband but someone he might be honorable in wanting to eliminate.
Click to expand...

Would it be acceptable to continue to have both men love her, but the boyfriend gets to be the husband and the current husband gets to be the boyfriend? This way, she'd still have the same amount of love in her life. Or maybe the husband and boyfriend could trade off who gets the legal marriage, say every five years.
 
I am sorry the chronic lying continues to be a problem.:(

I think you are doing what you can. A shot at counseling, and if she cannot get the lying under control with that help? You move on to divorce so you can be free of that behavior. It has been years of lies now.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Galagirl- Thank you. We're actually starting counseling Wednesday and, last night, we agreed to a trial separation.

WhatHappened- I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. While we did open our marriage to others, that's not a license to lie, hide, and betray your spouse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top