How far should fluid bonding go??

dekyibliss

New member
Hi, friends. This is my first poly relationship and my first post to this forum.

My partner's girlfriend (he and I are primary, but she was there before me, so I think she has some understandable resentment) recently started a new relationship. My partner and I are fluid bonded, and he is also fluid bonded with her. His girlfriend is also now fluid bonded with her new partner.

At this point I'm questioning whether this feels safe enough for me even though his girlfriend's new partner was recently tested for STIs. My partner said he is willing to use condoms outside our relationship (including with her), and I agreed to the same. However, his girlfriend completely flipped out and refuses to use condoms; she is very hurt at this suggestion and feels I should trust her and her new partner. But it feels very naive to me--blindly trusting my partner's partner's partner!

Since I'm a newbie to poly relationships I'm hoping to learn about how people navigate this. My partner did not expect his girlfriend to refuse to use a condom as she (probably reluctantly) accepts that I am his primary. I really do understand why she might feel hurt by this. Therefore, should I be the one to use condoms? My partner feels very caught in the middle and would prefer to use condoms with her over me, but also doesn't want to lose his girlfriend. Or am I being too conservative? How far out the chain do people go with fluid bonding? :confused:
 
Never got this concept.
If a person is not trustworthy, why would they still be part of the relationship?

The only thing one should have to think about protecting against is pregnancy, not STDs.
 
I don't know what a hierarchy of primary/secondary has to to do with it (I personally feel that hierarchy has no place in love relationships), but you are in charge of your own sexual health and know what you're comfortable with. It is great that your partner is willing to wear a condom with others at your request. It isn't a put-down of his other partner nor of her other partner - it is simply an agreement between you and your partner, and if she doesn't like it and only wants your partner to go bareback with her against his wishes, that is disrespectful of what he wants and so she doesn't get to have penetrative sex with him. Simple.

I don't know why so many people attach such importance and emotional meaning to being fluid-bonded. It is 2015, condoms should be the default.
 
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I think this one comes down to your boyfriend to decide. If he personally is not worried about the risks, then he should remain fluid bonded with her, and use condoms with you to put your mind at rest. I agree with nycindie - I don't think it's wise to drag the fact that you are his primary partner into this. I don't think it helps anything. Of course, your boyfriend may follow his own logic - decide for himself that he has more sex with you so would prefer that to stay barrier-free because it's simpler, and therefore decide to use condoms with her to protect you. That's an equally valid decision to come to. If so, I hope he tries to explain it like that to her instead of making it seem like this is something you are insisting on. The subtext of your descriptions of his other girlfriend suggests hat the two of you don't get on very well, and this could well be a trigger point for more antagonism between you both unless he manages it well.

For what it's worth, I would have the exact same reaction as you. The boyfriend of my boyfriend's girlfriend is a link too many for me. In fact, boyfriend having a girlfriend is usually enough. Condoms every time.
 
Hi, friends. This is my first poly relationship and my first post to this forum.
Since I'm a newbie to poly relationships I'm hoping to learn about how people navigate this.
If you being new to poly has any part in feeling uncomfortable about this situation, it's minor. The primary reason is that there is risk involved, and you are uncomfortable with that risk. In my experience, sucking it up and proceeding for the sake of gaining "experience" is a bad idea, especially if others are putting pressure on me to do so. If you're uncomfortable with something, it's probably best to stop or slow down. Personal relationships are personal, and your personal feelings ans comfort level matter more than anything else. If you feel uncomfortable with something that others do not, it means you feel differently, it does not mean that your feelings are more or less valid than how others feel.

Despite your self-professed lack of experience, it seems like you have a good idea of how to handle the situation:

Therefore, should I be the one to use condoms?
If you and your boyfriend are comfortable with this, it's probably the best option. New Girlfriend has made it clear she doesn't want to use them, so this would be the best way to keep things running smoothly; trying to convince her to change her mind would probably be a much bigger hassle.
 
If the four of you are not having sex with anyone else, then if your partner's g/f and her b/f are tested and free of STDs, then condoms should not be necessary. If everyone also agrees to tell the others if they have or expect to add another partner, then precautions can be taken as deemed suitable. In the meantime if recent tests and exclusivity are not available, then use condoms with your partner until such time those conditions exist.
 
When nate had barrier free partners the agreement was if they were barrier free with him then they agreed to Use condoms with others. If they wanted to be barrier free with others them he would start using condoms with Nate again. Just because nate trusts Jane doesnt man he had to trust her other partners.

If your boyfriend and you agreed that he uses condoms with others then she needs to respect that. When nate and Jane started uses condoms again after she started having barrier free sex with her bf she had no issue with it.
 
Hi all,

Thank you so much for these replies. The wide variety of responses is actually really helpful to see that there could be any number of reasonable approaches.

My partner's girlfriend and her new partner both have been tested. They are also nice people, I'm sure; I haven't met them. But don't "nice people" occasionally engage in extra-curriculars that they do not always disclose? Among those who are fluid bonded among multiple people, I would love to hear why/how you felt safe enough to do so. Should I ask to meet them? And would this even make a difference seeing that "nice people" do all kinds of things in secret?

My partner only sees her 3-4 times a month. Whereas he and I are working to build a life together. I'm just mentioning this to put things into perspective. We would both feel a loss to start using condoms. But I don't want to give an ultimatum where he needs to choose between her and me. Again, he did not expect her to refuse the request, so I guess in some ways it is her giving the ultimatum. I do not have another partner at this time, but I absolutely plan to use condoms with outside partners! I think the heart of the matter is that she does consider herself an outside partner.

Thank you so much!
 
I wouldn't use a condom with my full time partner so he can be barrier free with someone he has sex with just a few times a month.
 
Thank you!! I sort of wouldn't either. Only I came around after they had already been seeing each other. So she feels it is unreasonable for *her* to have to be the one to use condoms. She sees my partner (a.k.a. her boyfriend :) and her new partner as equally important in her life, and from her view, everyone has been tested--so what is the problem?

I kind of see all sides, but still don't know what to do and neither does my partner because he assumed she would be okay using condoms. Now he feels like he has to choose, which is awful for everyone.
 
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Thats just way too much fluid being shared for my liking. I mean , what happens when her partner wants to be barrier free with someone else? And what about that person's partners? No thanks
 
You mentioned a couple of times that you understand how she might be resentful of the couple privilege the two of you seem to be enjoying, and it's good that you recognize this reality. Hierarchy in romantic relationships does breed resentment; the only people who aren't resentful are the ones at the top or the ones on the bottom who like being there.

Now he feels like he has to choose, which is awful for everyone.

That is the situation which has been created by the power struggle which, I agree, sounds pretty awful.
 
Seems pretty simple

You're the one who is uncomfortable with the risk, it's up to you to protect yourself and insist that condoms are used with you at this uncomfortable level of risk. If he is uncomfortable with the risk, its up to him who he decides to use condoms with. If he decided he would rather use condoms with her and she refused, its up to him whether he changes his mind or doesn't have sex with her. You aren't involved in that decision. You can only make your own decision about what happens when you have sex.

You can ask for him to use condoms with her, you can believe you are entitled to barrier free sex in your relationship, but no amount of being "right" is going result in limiting your exposure to this risk.
 
I wouldn't use a condom with my full time partner so he can be barrier free with someone he has sex with just a few times a month.

Agreed. As the one that only has sex a few times a month, I would expect it to be me that he was choosing to use condoms with, not the partner who's bed he sleeps in all the other nights of the month.
 
Thank you!! I sort of wouldn't either. Only I came around after they had already been seeing each other. So she feels it is unreasonable for *her* to have to be the one to use condoms. She sees my partner (a.k.a. her boyfriend :) and her new partner as equally important in her life, and from her view, everyone has been tested--so what is the problem?

I kind of see all sides, but still don't know what to do and neither does my partner because he assumed she would be okay using condoms. Now he feels like he has to choose, which is awful for everyone.
It kind of sounds like you want someone to give you permission to not use condoms at all among the three of you. Is that an accurate assessment? If so, as a semi-anonymous stranger with no responsibility or personal risk in this situation, you have my permission to weigh the pros and cons and make your own decision, and to dismiss socially acceptable condom protocol if you see fit to do so.

Practically speaking, by far the worst aspect of STIs is the social stigma. Most of the time, there are no symptoms whatsoever. If there are symptoms, most are curable with antibiotics. Vaccines are available for hepatitis B and the strains of HPV linked to cervical cancer. HSV is treatable, and most people either never have an outbreak, or only have one. The big one, HIV, is no longer the death sentence it once was but is now a treatable chronic condition. If an STI gets into the mix with you three, it won't be the end of the world, medically speaking.

Socially, however, many people won't date or have sex with someone who has or has ever had an STI. I've experienced this myself. I had crabs once because my room mate at the time apparently had difficulty telling our towels apart. I had the least severe STI there is, that I didn't get through sexual activity, ten years ago, and two woman have decided I was unfuckable solely for that reason, and yet probably would have been fine with it had it been head lice. On top of that, the infestation was in my chest hair and only managed to get within six inches of my junk before I killed the little bastards with the shampoo. That's how strong the stigma is, I technically didn't even have an STI, but I still got the stigma because it was the same species that is transmitted sexually.

Hopefully there's some information in there that will help you make your decision.

If I was in your position, I'd be more concerned with New Girlfriend's response to being asked to use condoms. There are probably some jealously issues that need to be worked out.
 
Agreed. As the one that only has sex a few times a month, I would expect it to be me that he was choosing to use condoms with, not the partner who's bed he sleeps in all the other nights of the month.

I don't even consider that to be a hiarical thing, its logistics
 
Re (from dekyibliss):
"My partner's girlfriend and her new partner both have been tested. They are also nice people, I'm sure; I haven't met them. But don't 'nice people' occasionally engage in extra-curriculars that they do not always disclose?"

That's the crux of the matter. If you trust the people connected to your "poly tangle" to stick within the tangle and not have sex outside it without giving notice, then you assume you are okay to remain fluid bonded. If you don't trust them (or at least don't trust all of them), then you protect yourself with condoms.

I am in a three-person tangle: me, my partner, and her other partner. I feel confident that all three of us are going to confine our sexual activities to our three-person unit. (Birth control is assured via both men being fixed.) So I consider it safe to fluid bond with my partner.

Perhaps it has to do with how well you know the other people in your tangle?
 
I don't even consider that to be a hiarical thing, its logistics

Logistics is realizing that there are numerous variables involved in how "safe" you consider your sex/health to be. In that case, if the variables are or become more than you are comfortable making assumptions for then the rational response is to use a condom with everyone who is a question mark or is having sex with a question mark. It's not a power struggle... it's just about health... right?

This entire thread is about power struggle; the issue could easily be solved by everyone using a condom. Solving the issue isn't the goal... it's about establishing who has power.
 
Yes it is about health and trust too. In my situation for instance I don't know Dan. I dont know who he's sleeping with or who those people are sleeping with. I trust Jane which is why im comfortable being barrier free with nate while he's barrier free with her but suddenly she's having barrier free sex with dan which puts me at financial and health risk. if continued barrier free sex with nate was so important then she could have chosen to used protection with dan but to use a condom with someone you have sex with daily to maintain barrier free with someone you only have sex with a few times a month makes no sense.

ultimately the choice was up to nate. I could use condoms with him so he can choose who to be barrier free with but he'd rather use condoms 4 times a month instead of 30. Has nothing to do with control or couple privilege.
 
If you don't mind my input as someone who never personally ends up in situations like these (I neither fluid-bond nor go bareback, I just don't have sex. ;)) - I realize I'm an outsider, thus, but maybe my outsider perspective helps.


I don't think it's okay to expect a partner to do anything. He is, and should remain, free to make his own choice about who, if anyone, he will go bareback with. If he chooses to do so with the "secondary" partner, that's his choice and right.

On the other hand, I think it is perfectly okay for you to make the decision - and I consider it a wise decision in terms of your own physical health - to no longer agree with going bareback with him, if he chooses to go BB with the other gal. You are as free to make your decisions as he is to make his.

IMO, expecting him to do what's easier/preferrable for you is not okay. Ever. Expecting him to adapt to the consequence resulting from a choice he makes, though? Perfectly fine, even if that consequence for him is an unpleasant one, e.g. having to use condoms more often, as it will be required in th "primary", not the "secondary" 'ship. Your freedom is sacrosanct, so is his; that does not mean either of your freedoms exists in a vacuum.



(And sorry for the airquotes, I simply don't find hierarchical systems appealing... so these aren't neutral terms for me, personally. It doesn't mean I restrict your freedom of choosing hierarchical systems, if that's how you, personally, want to go about it.)
 
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