So my wife and I are in a somewhat open relationship. Not by my choice, she had an affair with her best friend, and when we relocated to Colorado they declared their love for one another. Since then it's been a whirlwind of heartbreak, and some shakey attempts of fixing things. She does not want to talk about their relationship with me, but does things that hurts me. Like she received the woman's panties in the mail, which makes me sick to be honest. When I told her that one of my boundaries is now no letter writing/receiving, or gifts she agreed, but she still has the panties after I told her to get rid of them. She says she's tired of discussions, but on my side of the fence I'm being neglected, and hurt, I feel like we should have discussions. We need to get through this, and figure out a way for this to happen safely for the both of us. How have you established boundaries with one another?
How to set difficult boundaries
- Thread starter jazbarbee
- Start date
I am sorry you deal in this. I mean this kindly ok? 
In your other post you made it sound like you were on board. Were you or weren't you?
If all parties are not willing/able/consenting? This is not ethical, honest, polyamory to me. It is a cheating affair that was behind your back that is now in front of you. Or maybe you agreed against your willingness hoping it would just go away once she got it out of her system and now you find it has cranked up rather than gone away?
I do not know if this is helpful in your situation.
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell
You do not say how often you want discussions or how often she does. She says you will be back on track soon but what date is that exactly?
I think you may benefit from a counselor. If she is willing to participate, you and wife could go as a couple once or twice a week or whatever the counselor sets. And if you need to go more often, you could make individual appointments in between the couple appointments.
You could tell the counselor your desired outcome is
If wife shares the desire to repair, then "repair marriage" could be a shared couple goal. But you cannot repair this marriage by yourself. If she's not into it, then she isn't into it. I know that's a hard pill to swallow.
I do not see you setting anything for YOU to do.
You cannot control other people's behavior. You live inside you, not inside them.
I set boundaries for ME to follow. One of them goes...
I know what to do in my behavior because I follow my personal boundary. Sticking around with someone who keeps a "Flimsy Word" that I just cannot trust is not healthy for me. I'm not up for listening to empty promises. It sucks, and I will have to process a lot of feelings, but I could not let my soft feelings for the person blind me to their objectionable behavior, or get in the way of behavior I need to do to keep me safe.
What is your personal boundary in regards to cheating? Or agreements made with no follow through? Are you able to phrase it as behavior for YOU to do should that situation arise?
I am sorry you deal in this.
Galagirl
In your other post you made it sound like you were on board. Were you or weren't you?
If all parties are not willing/able/consenting? This is not ethical, honest, polyamory to me.
It is a cheating affair that was behind your back that is now in front of you. Or maybe you agreed against your willingness hoping it would just go away once she got it out of her system and now you find it has cranked up rather than gone away? I do not know if this is helpful in your situation.
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell
You do not say how often you want discussions or how often she does. She says you will be back on track soon but what date is that exactly?
I think you may benefit from a counselor. If she is willing to participate, you and wife could go as a couple once or twice a week or whatever the counselor sets. And if you need to go more often, you could make individual appointments in between the couple appointments.
You could tell the counselor your desired outcome is
- to learn to set personal boundaries
- to heal from this affair
If wife shares the desire to repair, then "repair marriage" could be a shared couple goal. But you cannot repair this marriage by yourself. If she's not into it, then she isn't into it. I know that's a hard pill to swallow.
I do not see you setting anything for YOU to do.
- I see you are trying to set things for the friend to do (stop writing and sending her things)
- I see you trying to set things for her to do (stop writing, stop receiving, throw away panties that gross you out)
You cannot control other people's behavior. You live inside you, not inside them.
I set boundaries for ME to follow. One of them goes...
"I cannot stay in a relationship where there is no trust in someone's Word. (boundary). If someone cheats or chronically does not follow through on agreements? (Situation) I have to walk away and not continue to expose myself to them. (consequence for me to do)"
I know what to do in my behavior because I follow my personal boundary. Sticking around with someone who keeps a "Flimsy Word" that I just cannot trust is not healthy for me. I'm not up for listening to empty promises. It sucks, and I will have to process a lot of feelings, but I could not let my soft feelings for the person blind me to their objectionable behavior, or get in the way of behavior I need to do to keep me safe.
What is your personal boundary in regards to cheating? Or agreements made with no follow through? Are you able to phrase it as behavior for YOU to do should that situation arise?
I am sorry you deal in this.
Galagirl
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Hi jazbarbee,
If you're at the point where you feel you have to forbid gifts and letters, I think you're beyond the point where an open -- even just somewhat open -- relationship could be healthy for you. Consider telling your wife that you can't tolerate her carrying on this affair with her best friend in any way shape or form. If she can't stand to give the affair up, then you should really think about a divorce -- not in a vindictive way, but because it might be the most merciful thing that could be done for the both of you at this point.
Setting boundaries that someone other than yourself has to observe is a difficult proposition. It means you are trying to accomplish something that depends on someone else's behavior. And you can't control someone else's behavior; you can only choose your own behavior. So for you, it becomes a question of whether you're going to stay or go. If your wife observes the boundaries you set for her, well and good, though I get the impression she is defying your wishes (e.g. keeping the panties). You can't choose her behavior, so what behavior are you going to choose for yourself? Will you stay (and endure your wife's defiance), or will you leave? There aren't many options here besides that.
If she's willing to see a counselor with you, then that's an option the both of you could do. I think it would be a good idea.
Alternatively, she could get an account on this forum, and you and she could field your differences here, receiving feedback from other forum members. You could in fact do that in addition to professional counseling. And, even if she's not participating, you can continue to dialog here yourself. I'll follow this thread and help you keep it active if you want.
You mentioned being neglected and hurt. Could you elaborate on what's making you feel that way?
If you're at the point where you feel you have to forbid gifts and letters, I think you're beyond the point where an open -- even just somewhat open -- relationship could be healthy for you. Consider telling your wife that you can't tolerate her carrying on this affair with her best friend in any way shape or form. If she can't stand to give the affair up, then you should really think about a divorce -- not in a vindictive way, but because it might be the most merciful thing that could be done for the both of you at this point.
Setting boundaries that someone other than yourself has to observe is a difficult proposition. It means you are trying to accomplish something that depends on someone else's behavior. And you can't control someone else's behavior; you can only choose your own behavior. So for you, it becomes a question of whether you're going to stay or go. If your wife observes the boundaries you set for her, well and good, though I get the impression she is defying your wishes (e.g. keeping the panties). You can't choose her behavior, so what behavior are you going to choose for yourself? Will you stay (and endure your wife's defiance), or will you leave? There aren't many options here besides that.
If she's willing to see a counselor with you, then that's an option the both of you could do. I think it would be a good idea.
Alternatively, she could get an account on this forum, and you and she could field your differences here, receiving feedback from other forum members. You could in fact do that in addition to professional counseling. And, even if she's not participating, you can continue to dialog here yourself. I'll follow this thread and help you keep it active if you want.
You mentioned being neglected and hurt. Could you elaborate on what's making you feel that way?
KDT26417, mainly what makes me feel neglected is this: throughout the day they text consistently, and talk on the phone at least once, sometimes twice. She thinks she's being amazing by not talking to her for 15 minutes, but she can't go longer than that. We haven't had sex in over a month, and it's because she doesn't feel emotionally attached to me, what with all of this making me a little bit of a wreck. I keep wanting to talk to her, but she doesnt want to. It's all I can think about. Galagirl, thank you so much for the articles, the top one didn't work, but the last one was amazing. I'm going to see if my wife is willing to read it, and go from there. I just wish I knew how to get through to her.
If she's willing to read the "poly hell" one then perhaps that could get through to her.
I am sorry. I hope she will listen though.
Have you considered changing what you ask her for? And how you ask?
Rather than asking her to stop talking to the friend, ask her for time talking to you uninterrupted so you can feel connected? Because if you are being neglected, her stopping talking to the friend doesn't mean she will automatically use the free time to spend on you. What if she goes bowling all the time instead? You are still left neglected, right?
Could focus on what you need, and ask for it up front. Like...
"I feel disconnected. I would like to feel connected again. I would like some of your undivided attention. I would like it as... (a date? No phones on during meal times? Something else?) Could you be willing to do those behaviors and be more present in our own relationship?"
Galagirl
I am sorry. I hope she will listen though.
Have you considered changing what you ask her for? And how you ask?
Rather than asking her to stop talking to the friend, ask her for time talking to you uninterrupted so you can feel connected? Because if you are being neglected, her stopping talking to the friend doesn't mean she will automatically use the free time to spend on you. What if she goes bowling all the time instead? You are still left neglected, right?
Could focus on what you need, and ask for it up front. Like...
"I feel disconnected. I would like to feel connected again. I would like some of your undivided attention. I would like it as... (a date? No phones on during meal times? Something else?) Could you be willing to do those behaviors and be more present in our own relationship?"
Galagirl
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It is hard to get through to someone who is in the throes of NRE, and it sounds like that's where your wife's at. If she's unwilling to give you her undivided attention for more than 15 minutes at a time, then that is a behavior of hers that you have to decide whether you can stand it. NRE usually lasts from six to 18 months, so it will go away eventually, but it will test your endurance in the meantime.
It might be helpful to draw up a list of behaviors you want her to modify (and how much modification you want for each behavior), then have her go through the list and put a checkmark next to anything where she's willing to do as you asked, as well as write where she's willing to partly change a behavior but not as much as you're asking. The point would be that then you'd at least be on the same page, and more importantly, you'd have a clear view of what you'll have to endure if you decide to stick around.
Please keep us posted on what efforts you make to improve the situation, as well as how (and whether) your wife responds to those efforts.
It might be helpful to draw up a list of behaviors you want her to modify (and how much modification you want for each behavior), then have her go through the list and put a checkmark next to anything where she's willing to do as you asked, as well as write where she's willing to partly change a behavior but not as much as you're asking. The point would be that then you'd at least be on the same page, and more importantly, you'd have a clear view of what you'll have to endure if you decide to stick around.
Please keep us posted on what efforts you make to improve the situation, as well as how (and whether) your wife responds to those efforts.
jazbarbee, I was one of 2 to respond to your first thread. There was no need to start another to update. Maybe you didn't like the advice on your other thread from Marcus and me, maybe you forgot you started it.
My advice was similar to what you're hearing here from Kevin and GG. I will add, your gf and you are not in an ethical polyamorous r'ship. Your gf is cheating on you in plain sight. You 2 talked about opening the r'ship because she has a crush on her co worker. You didn't come to any comfortable agreements. She is just doing her own thing. She ignored you on your wedding anniversary. Only your second anniversary! She can't go without texting her gf for 15 bloody minutes? What is she, 14?
You suspect she's trying to push you away. You still love her and are trying to prove you're better than your competitor (saying, "I love you and will forever, with her it's just lust and will fade," for example). That's not gonna work. The woman she left behind in your former town is the new and shiny... now you're chopped liver.
This is such a common scenario, in cheating and with poly noobs who don't even realize how their NRE is hurting their partner. Can't see it, don't even seem to care. And maybe she doesn't care. You said she's an addict. Even if she's off drugs, sounds like she's got a new addiction. The hormones she is awash in can feel quite similar to an opiate.
Her effort to grow up and get married isn't working for her. Just as you two make a fresh start in a new state, she is bailing on you! How terrible and awkward. Moving is stressful, getting your things unpacked, getting to know the area, making new friends, a new job... And she's checked out.
I am really sad for you. It hurts like nothing else to feel abandoned.
On the other thread, Marcus gave you advice from a relationship anarchy perspective. Not all of us are so laissez faire. Not when you've invested time and money in moving who knows how far with this wife of yours, who is acting decidedly unwifely.
The ball is in your court. It's not fair to ask her to choose her new lover or you. She says she wants both. If she wants to keep you though, of course she has to do some r'ship work. You'd be an ass to stay if she continues in her la la land and just does whatever the hell she feels like, completely ignoring your needs and desires.
Good luck with getting her to pay some attention to her commitment to you. And if she can't or won't, isn't willing or able, good luck with the split. sigh...
My advice was similar to what you're hearing here from Kevin and GG. I will add, your gf and you are not in an ethical polyamorous r'ship. Your gf is cheating on you in plain sight. You 2 talked about opening the r'ship because she has a crush on her co worker. You didn't come to any comfortable agreements. She is just doing her own thing. She ignored you on your wedding anniversary. Only your second anniversary! She can't go without texting her gf for 15 bloody minutes? What is she, 14?
You suspect she's trying to push you away. You still love her and are trying to prove you're better than your competitor (saying, "I love you and will forever, with her it's just lust and will fade," for example). That's not gonna work. The woman she left behind in your former town is the new and shiny... now you're chopped liver.
This is such a common scenario, in cheating and with poly noobs who don't even realize how their NRE is hurting their partner. Can't see it, don't even seem to care. And maybe she doesn't care. You said she's an addict. Even if she's off drugs, sounds like she's got a new addiction. The hormones she is awash in can feel quite similar to an opiate.
Her effort to grow up and get married isn't working for her. Just as you two make a fresh start in a new state, she is bailing on you! How terrible and awkward. Moving is stressful, getting your things unpacked, getting to know the area, making new friends, a new job... And she's checked out.
I am really sad for you. It hurts like nothing else to feel abandoned.
On the other thread, Marcus gave you advice from a relationship anarchy perspective. Not all of us are so laissez faire. Not when you've invested time and money in moving who knows how far with this wife of yours, who is acting decidedly unwifely.
The ball is in your court. It's not fair to ask her to choose her new lover or you. She says she wants both. If she wants to keep you though, of course she has to do some r'ship work. You'd be an ass to stay if she continues in her la la land and just does whatever the hell she feels like, completely ignoring your needs and desires.
Good luck with getting her to pay some attention to her commitment to you. And if she can't or won't, isn't willing or able, good luck with the split. sigh...
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Perhaps instead of concentrating on what your wife is doing with her girlfriend (receiving gifts, talking on the phone a certain amount of time) you could shift your focus to what is happening between YOU and your wife. If you need more of her time, attention, sex, focus, then work on that. That other relationship has nothing to do with you, don't compare and contrast, don't try to control it or diminish it. Worry about what's happening in YOUR relationship, not THEIRS.
I, personally, would not take kindly to someone trying to restrict my relationship to someone else, so I would consider the "no receiving gifts rule" as controlling and hostile and it would only cause resentment.
If you truly can't handle the situation, and it's totally ok if you can't, get out of it. I speak from experience when I tell you: The other woman isn't going to disappear, and even if she does, it is highly unlikely your wife will return to monogamy with you forever. I know you just want things back the way they were, but there's no going back. There's only moving forward, with or without your wife. You need to be happy and fulfilled, too.
I, personally, would not take kindly to someone trying to restrict my relationship to someone else, so I would consider the "no receiving gifts rule" as controlling and hostile and it would only cause resentment.
If you truly can't handle the situation, and it's totally ok if you can't, get out of it. I speak from experience when I tell you: The other woman isn't going to disappear, and even if she does, it is highly unlikely your wife will return to monogamy with you forever. I know you just want things back the way they were, but there's no going back. There's only moving forward, with or without your wife. You need to be happy and fulfilled, too.
Inyourendo
New member
I agree it sounds like she's cheating. She clearly doesn't want to be with you. Let her move back to her "girlfriend". Why stay eith someone who doesn't want you?