hurt, sad and looking for answers on betrayed trust

Anyway, we are going to couples therapy today to try to get on the same page. But this AM I mentioned ,so he wouldn't be surprised, that given all the history I feel like maybe hes jumping the gun on being die hard poly. He got agitated.

Well, if he's identifying as poly, and you're trying to identify him as not-poly (based on your interpretation of past history) he may find that agitating. It's.. irritating to have others try to define the self.

I just feel like, yeah I feel mono...but im willing to find a relationship model that works for us. hes all poly or die.

Which may be part of the mono/poly divide. Not necessarily insurmountable, but can be difficult. I think you both need to accept each other as you are, and work from there.
 
Well, if he's identifying as poly, and you're trying to identify him as not-poly (based on your interpretation of past history) he may find that agitating. It's.. irritating to have others try to define the self.



Which may be part of the mono/poly divide. Not necessarily insurmountable, but can be difficult. I think you both need to accept each other as you are, and work from there.

Yes, good point. I shouldn't try to tell him hes not something because I wish he'd be something else. It's hard to discuss and work all out when I am just so worn out with poly, even the word gives me an ugh feeling in the pit of my stomach. The year I spent as poly was one of the hardest, most challenging while not be very rewarding years of my life. If we weren't both separated at this point, it'd be over already.
 
Harsh, but probably true. No I didn't set her up to it, that'd be awful. My change of heart, poly vs mono I feel is that I tried something, and for me it didn't work. but I still love the man I found through it.

If you don't want to be poly because it didn't work for you that's fine but don't expect him to feel the same way. Also a lot of your rules just aren't fair to his other partners. You don't get to dictate the speed in which his other relationships progress and if his other partners don't want to meet you, they won't. Honestly if a guy I was potentially going to date had a laundry list of rules that affect MY relationship with him then it would be over before it began. i think if you want to have a healthy relationship with your bf you are going to have to dial back on the rules.
 
If you don't want to be poly because it didn't work for you that's fine but don't expect him to feel the same way. Also a lot of your rules just aren't fair to his other partners. You don't get to dictate the speed in which his other relationships progress and if his other partners don't want to meet you, they won't. Honestly if a guy I was potentially going to date had a laundry list of rules that affect MY relationship with him then it would be over before it began. i think if you want to have a healthy relationship with your bf you are going to have to dial back on the rules.

I hear you IYE, but the part I don't agree on is meeting me. If a woman dating my primary partner refuses to meet me, I see that as a big red flag. Actually he and I agree on that one, so that ones not an issue. ;) Actually he says he doesn't take issue with any of them, we both know our big problem is I am having a very hard time getting comfortable with this and neither of us wants to leave the other so we have to figure something out
 
The word "refuse" can sometimes be projected onto situations where it is not reflective of what is going on. I've experienced this first hand and it really brought home how much the rules we set can be inflexible to the point that we cut out the people who would be most compatible with our situation.

My "primary" partner and I agreed that someone who "refused" to meet their potential or established metamour was a "red flag" and should be bypassed. This worked for a while; we mainly encountered people who were fine with meeting although some relationships didn't progress that far. We both encountered people who blatantly refused to ever meet pre existing partners, and it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to sustain a polyamorous relationship. Then my partner met Elise.

Elise was a lovely woman who described herself as an introvert. She found interacting with people draining and spent most of her time with a few select companions. When it came to metamours, she fully appreciated why they might need to meet her, but it wasn't something she was willing to do unless she envisaged a long term relationship with the partner and it was likely that they'd see each other often. She counted often as once a week or more.

My partner trusted her but I had serious reservations. Everything I was taught about poly said that refusing to meet me was a red flag and this person wasn't prepared to do it unless the relationship met her conditions. I feared my partner was brainwashed by NRE and lust and was ignoring this "red flag" we had identified in other people and rejected them automatically. My partner wasn't prepared to dump her over this and I was upset that she seemed to be bending our rules. I wasn't prepared to leave my partner over it so I had no other option than to wait and see. I did wait and see, and as Elise said, she invited me around to dinner with our partner once they knew that they were on the road to something long term. It was maybe eight months in total. Elise has probably been the metamour with whom I've shared the closest, most positive relationship. If my partner stuck to our rules, I wouldn't have benefited from the positivity she has brought to my life. It would have been my loss, as well as my partner's.
 
The word "refuse" can sometimes be projected onto situations where it is not reflective of what is going on. I've experienced this first hand and it really brought home how much the rules we set can be inflexible to the point that we cut out the people who would be most compatible with our situation.

My "primary" partner and I agreed that someone who "refused" to meet their potential or established metamour was a "red flag" and should be bypassed. This worked for a while; we mainly encountered people who were fine with meeting although some relationships didn't progress that far. We both encountered people who blatantly refused to ever meet pre existing partners, and it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to sustain a polyamorous relationship. Then my partner met Elise.

Elise was a lovely woman who described herself as an introvert. She found interacting with people draining and spent most of her time with a few select companions. When it came to metamours, she fully appreciated why they might need to meet her, but it wasn't something she was willing to do unless she envisaged a long term relationship with the partner and it was likely that they'd see each other often. She counted often as once a week or more.

My partner trusted her but I had serious reservations. Everything I was taught about poly said that refusing to meet me was a red flag and this person wasn't prepared to do it unless the relationship met her conditions. I feared my partner was brainwashed by NRE and lust and was ignoring this "red flag" we had identified in other people and rejected them automatically. My partner wasn't prepared to dump her over this and I was upset that she seemed to be bending our rules. I wasn't prepared to leave my partner over it so I had no other option than to wait and see. I did wait and see, and as Elise said, she invited me around to dinner with our partner once they knew that they were on the road to something long term. It was maybe eight months in total. Elise has probably been the metamour with whom I've shared the closest, most positive relationship. If my partner stuck to our rules, I wouldn't have benefited from the positivity she has brought to my life. It would have been my loss, as well as my partner's.

Thank you for sharing this Mighty Max! You actually describe more of what im envisioning...if some is going to stick around and be with my guy once a week or so (I would prefer he not see anyone more often than that) that's when id want to meet them. Or maybe im BSing myself...cause in my heart of hearts I don't want him meeting anyone at all. With how f'ed up both our situations are, Im having a hard time knowing/trusting what either of us want or can actually give.
 
I have had the OPPOSITE experience as MM.

Butch started seeing a woman who wanted to meet at least be able to talk to her metamour. She said it was due to men being less than honest about their situation in the past. I said if it will put her at ease no problem.

This woman is an emotional/time vampire. I am an INTJ. I have no urge to be buddy buddy with my husbands metamours. I don't' care about the nitty gritty of his relationships outside of my own. I socialize with my select social circle that's it.

This woman tried to get herself involved in my life. She was facebook stalking me and Murf (who is like me socially). Texting me about decisions in their relationship, what they were doing, calling me. She wanted to be my BFF I couldn't stand her.

I wanted nothing to do with their relationship. They had the freedom to go down what ever path they chose. I did put my foot down with her and later Butch about her behavior. He ended up dumping her because she had no respect for personal boundaries.

Never again will I have contact with a metamour she wasn't the only one like this over the years.
 
I've also had the experience of someone ensuring that this rule is formally adhered to so they can conveniently become desperately ill or otherwise in need of a partner pretty much every time we have a date. This person was also monogamous with a polyamorous person. The polyamorous person didn't get to have other relationships when they were with this monogamous person because the people they were dating soon tired of what was going on and pulled out.

This was my experience with my BF's enthusiastically polyamorous spouse. She did so much 'getting sick' that forced us to change plans that I got tired of it and broke up with him.

Communication only helps when all people involved want to be upfront and honest, and face what's really going on. Communicating with him about the long-term and 100% consistent nature of the 'getting sick' and other things that made us constantly change plans only resulted in his denial that he and his poly wife could possibly have any jealousies, insecurities, or dishonesty.
 
You do realise that I waited eight months to meet her? In that time, they were dating, having sex amd even went away for a weekend.

Also, you're making rules for their relationship again. He hasn't even met the woman and you've already decided that seeing each other once a week is the limit.

You don't want him to be poly and that's always going to be an obstacle. I can't see how you'd manage to feel this way and not constantly try and sabotage his other relationships.
 
You do realise that I waited eight months to meet her? In that time, they were dating, having sex amd even went away for a weekend.

Also, you're making rules for their relationship again. He hasn't even met the woman and you've already decided that seeing each other once a week is the limit.

You don't want him to be poly and that's always going to be an obstacle. I can't see how you'd manage to feel this way and not constantly try and sabotage his other relationships.

Before I get to MM, to everyone else....I'll upfront tell you I don't want to ever deal with a woman who's going to date my boyfriend. Maybe, MAYBE I could handle someone we already know. SO yeah, I think we all know this probably isn't going to work.

MM, interesting question. The only other relationship he has had was his wife, and it was her that dragged that one down. So I really have never experienced a situation where I'd drag it down. Do I want to consider a third persons feelings? Absolutely not.

Look everybody, I know this isn't working. I know my hard lines in the sand mean it cant work. it just breaks my heart so much im grasping at straws
 
I personally would prefer not meeting anyone my partners were seeing. And if it was a "rule" that I had to meet someone's wife then I most likely wouldn't do it. Its not a red flag that im not willing to let someone else dictate my relationship. There is absolutely no reason a metamour would need to meet me. It's a red flag to me that someone would have that rule or I would need permission to have sex with my boyfriend
 
I'm confused .....I thought the poly doctrine was move at the speed of the struggling partner. I thought it was smart and wise to voice what you " need " to feel comfortable and to adjust to the new situation. But that only applies to trying to get the agreement of a struggling mono .....if you asking that of a poly partner you're a control freak..... Co dependent head case .....destine to be the next ex gf.
 
I'm confused .....I thought the poly doctrine was move at the speed of the struggling voice what you " need " to feel comfortable and to adjust to the new situation. But that only applies to trying to get the agreement of a struggling mono .....if you asking that of a poly partner you're a control freak..... Co dependent head case .....destine to be the next ex gf.

she was married and started seeing him then split from her husband now wants to be mono. Did you read the list of "rules"? it's my understating that these rules came into play after they became primary partners. I guess I feel like if the couple was already open when they got together then adding restrictions later is pretty shitty.
 
I don't think there's a "poly doctrine"; there is, at best, accepted wisdom -- and even that's likely to be challenged by someone, sometime.

If Pbn's poly partner were here, voicing his concerns on how to deal with his struggling mono girlfriend, it may well be that there'd people advising him to slow down. There would probably also be people saying that she's got a laundry list of impossible rules, go find someone else. That's the thing with forums, you find a great many POVs.

However, we're talking to Pbn, not her partner. We can't influence his behavior, only guess at it. We can't necessarily influence her behavior, either, but she's here looking for info/advice/ears.

They were in a poly situation; it didn't work out, and they both separated from the other partners. Now they're in a nominally mono situation (I believe), and she'd like it to stay that way. She is no longer identifying as poly, but as mono. He, however, is identifying as poly and so is likely, at some point in the future, to seek and find other partners, which makes her intensely uncomfortable and unhappy.

So, the rules. They come up, it seems, in almost every couple opening their marriage or relationship. On the flipside, breaking them seems to happen almost as much, and then trust gets lost and can be nearly impossible to get back. Then the relationship is likely to explode anyway.

I am not a fan of setting things up to fail -- and while I know that is never the intention, it does seem to be an almost inevitable result.

I like having paramour and metamour meet, but I don't think I'd tolerate it as hard-clad rule. Some people just don't want to meet their lover's other. It makes them uncomfortable. It may make them feel judged -- which can, at times, be the point of the meeting, to say "Is this person worthy of my beloved?"

I've read rules which state that anything other than kissing must be cleared with the primary first, often by stages. That definitely reeks of control-freakness -- and I say that with all good will, being one myself. That, however, isn't really a controllable factor. What happens when two people are alone together is going to happen, or not, and I don't see many stopping in the middle of heated passion to call/text their partner for permission, or even as a heads up, to move onto another stage. And then, boom, trust issues again.

You're not going to avoid those who want to lure the partner away by proclaiming primary partner status, anymore than a wedding ring guarantees monofidelity.

Et cetera. Pretty sure for every rule someone has made, exceptions have been made. Or they just get broken.

Rules are not going, I think, to make Pbn happy with the situation because she wants a mono relationship right now. Her boyfriend, though not currently with anyone else, doesn't. She doesn't want to consider a third person's feelings because she doesn't want there to be a third person, which almost guarantees there will be relationship sabotage even if only subconsciously.

It's a fairly major divide. If she wants to stay with the BF, she needs to reconcile with his polyness; I doubt he objects to her being mono. If she can't, then she can't, but then remaining in the relationship will only ultimately make both of them unhappy. She recognizes this, too, I think, which is making her miserable now.
 
Before I get to MM, to everyone else....I'll upfront tell you I don't want to ever deal with a woman who's going to date my boyfriend. Maybe, MAYBE I could handle someone we already know. SO yeah, I think we all know this probably isn't going to work.

MM, interesting question. The only other relationship he has had was his wife, and it was her that dragged that one down. So I really have never experienced a situation where I'd drag it down. Do I want to consider a third persons feelings? Absolutely not.

Look everybody, I know this isn't working. I know my hard lines in the sand mean it cant work. it just breaks my heart so much im grasping at straws

In the interests of honesty, I'd say from your "partner's marriage trouble" thread that you were intervening and attempting to ensure the end of their relationship. This isn't new behaviour.
 
This is me too, incase you want even more threads about how I couldn't handle the wife from the very beginning. I will tell you though, that I never came between them. I reached out to her, I offered them space and time, I was kind to him...at the end, I wanted it to end because I'd just watched a man I love go through hell.
 
I'm not sure what I'm looking at other than the fact that you always had a problem with his wife. You were in competition from the very first thread you wrote.
 
I'm not sure what I'm looking at other than the fact that you always had a problem with his wife. You were in competition from the very first thread you wrote.

Shit happens. I told him from the beginning, I didn't think I could handle playing second fiddle, was two primaries possible...yada yada yada. So i'd say the onus is on both of us.
 
I don't think there's a "poly doctrine"; there is, at best, accepted wisdom -- and even that's likely to be challenged by someone, sometime.

If Pbn's poly partner were here, voicing his concerns on how to deal with his struggling mono girlfriend, it may well be that there'd people advising him to slow down. There would probably also be people saying that she's got a laundry list of impossible rules, go find someone else. That's the thing with forums, you find a great many POVs.

However, we're talking to Pbn, not her partner. We can't influence his behavior, only guess at it. We can't necessarily influence her behavior, either, but she's here looking for info/advice/ears.

They were in a poly situation; it didn't work out, and they both separated from the other partners. Now they're in a nominally mono situation (I believe), and she'd like it to stay that way. She is no longer identifying as poly, but as mono. He, however, is identifying as poly and so is likely, at some point in the future, to seek and find other partners, which makes her intensely uncomfortable and unhappy.

So, the rules. They come up, it seems, in almost every couple opening their marriage or relationship. On the flipside, breaking them seems to happen almost as much, and then trust gets lost and can be nearly impossible to get back. Then the relationship is likely to explode anyway.

I am not a fan of setting things up to fail -- and while I know that is never the intention, it does seem to be an almost inevitable result.

I like having paramour and metamour meet, but I don't think I'd tolerate it as hard-clad rule. Some people just don't want to meet their lover's other. It makes them uncomfortable. It may make them feel judged -- which can, at times, be the point of the meeting, to say "Is this person worthy of my beloved?"

I've read rules which state that anything other than kissing must be cleared with the primary first, often by stages. That definitely reeks of control-freakness -- and I say that with all good will, being one myself. That, however, isn't really a controllable factor. What happens when two people are alone together is going to happen, or not, and I don't see many stopping in the middle of heated passion to call/text their partner for permission, or even as a heads up, to move onto another stage. And then, boom, trust issues again.

You're not going to avoid those who want to lure the partner away by proclaiming primary partner status, anymore than a wedding ring guarantees monofidelity.

Et cetera. Pretty sure for every rule someone has made, exceptions have been made. Or they just get broken.

Rules are not going, I think, to make Pbn happy with the situation because she wants a mono relationship right now. Her boyfriend, though not currently with anyone else, doesn't. She doesn't want to consider a third person's feelings because she doesn't want there to be a third person, which almost guarantees there will be relationship sabotage even if only subconsciously.

It's a fairly major divide. If she wants to stay with the BF, she needs to reconcile with his polyness; I doubt he objects to her being mono. If she can't, then she can't, but then remaining in the relationship will only ultimately make both of them unhappy. She recognizes this, too, I think, which is making her miserable now.

Thanks for all this KR. I agree with you and told him I am not setting rules or dictating what he can and cant do. We want very different things. We've made no resolution, I offered to back off myself while he does all the things he wants...the risk being we may never get what we had back. But for me, personally, I can not stay at the level of intimacy and connection we had while he runs around.
 
Pardon if someone has already said this, OP.

I feel you are in a good position if only because this incident revealed something about you and your BF. This actually reveals that he is still very stuck in mono-mindset, or "the pattern of behavior that monogamous people have". In mono-world, it is not okay to talk to your partner about what he was considering doing. In poly-land it is normal.

In my opinion, the only option I see for you is for you both to try to gravitate more toward the "poly" way of thinking where it is normal to talk, even gush to your partner about a date or a hook up.
 
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