Husband and I can't get on the same page

[WhiteTulips]

This is my first post, though I've been a lurker for quite a while. My husband and I have been having problems and I'm looking for advice from more seasoned veterans.

The background: I have identified as poly for pretty much all of my dating life. My husband is mono. I told him before we became official that I was not looking for a monogamous relationship. He said that he was willing to open up, but wanted to be exclusive for a while. Basically, that never happened.

About 9 months into our relationship, I met a guy I was interested in. I told my husband (then boyfriend) that I wanted to start dating this guy. At this point, we were talking about getting engaged. He asked if I could wait to poly-date, so that he wasn't "just another boyfriend." So we waited. A few months later, we got engaged.

I started feeling nervous about the situation. I made it clear that I had no desire to be in a monogamous marriage, but he reassured me that we would open up after the wedding. About a year after that, we got married. On our honeymoon, he broke down and told me that he would never be OK with opening up.

I was incredibly resentful for quite a while, but have recently started bringing it up again. At this point, we have had many fights and a handful of productive discussions about the subject. We have started making progress, but it is raising a whole new set of issues.

He says he would be OK with what is essentially unicorn chasing: a triad where we have threesomes and some dates with a girl, but nothing outside a casual relationship. I have tried to explain to him why this isn't very realistic, but he doesn't see it. Also, though I have had sex with women before, I consider myself mostly straight and would want to date a man. Forcing a triad is not appealing to me at all.

I am interested in an open relationship, where we both date independently, but he won't even discuss it. I have tried to talk to him about what he's feeling. He doesn't know why he's so strongly against it. He isn't really interested in thinking about it. I am afraid of compromising with him, that if I start out by doing what he's ok with, then it will completely shut the door for us to reexamine this later, and he will accuse me of trying to move the goalposts.

So, basically:
1) What would you do? Would you compromise and be a unicorn chaser in this situation, hoping that he loosens up later on?
2) Any tips for how to help a mono person be less threatened by sharing? He said even light flirting or a coffee date were totally unacceptable.
3) Do you think, based on your experience, that he is coming around, or is he just telling me what I want to hear again?

I have considered forcing the issue, i.e., saying: "I'm going on a date tonight. How you respond is your choice," but I'm not sure if it's that dire yet.

He said before that he would never leave me because of my polyness, but I know he'd be hurt.

Other options? I know it's a mess. Thanks for any insights.

 

[bookbug]

Oh man, that situation really sucks. At the worst, he lied to you. At the least, he lied to himself about his ability to deal with polyamory. Without dwelling on the fucked-up psychology that led him to think it was a good idea to marry someone whose worldview regarding love and sexuality was not compatible with his, you have to deal with where you are now.

Here is my impression, based up on personal experience and logic:

1. The unicorn hunting is his attempt to appease you, despite the fact that it in no way addresses your needs. It might have some validity if you were bisexual, but you're not.

2. He chose unicorn hunting because him banging other chicks isn't threatening to him. This is not a step that will get him accustomed to the idea of you having other love interests. This suggestion is a red herring.

3. Yes, it will likely breed resentment on your part.

4. And that unicorn he is talking about? Well, she'd be a person, not a toy to be used to address issues in the marriage. I was a unicorn to a couple who didn't realize they had issues. They just thought it was some usual marriage crap. I got hurt. Knowingly bringing another person into a relationship with issues is unethical.

5. If you two have any hope of reaching any kind of understanding, he is going to need to communicate about what he thinks and feels, and why. Why he thought it was a good idea to mislead you and marry you, when you were upfront from the beginning, might be a good place to start. I'm sure he thinks he did it because he loves you, but it's not very loving behavior to cage a person and ask her to deny a big part of who she is.

 

[LoveBunny]

I'd give him one more warning, as in, "Honey, in 5 months, I am going to start looking for a man to date. Do your inner work, and let's work out some guidelines, so you can be ok with the situation."

You've given him plenty of time to get used to the idea. This isn't even a case where he thought he was going into a monogamous marriage! He knew it wasn't who you are. I'm sure he hoped he'd relax into it, but now it's clear one of you isn't going to get what you want.

I wouldn't do the unicorn thing as a "compromise." You're not bisexual, and you don't want a closed triad, and he doesn't really want to date anyone else. So who would that benefit?

But are you prepared to lose your husband if he can't handle you being with another man? I know he says he'll never leave you because of polyamory, but what if he makes both your lives hell because he's miserable and resentful and the marriage disintegrates? If he can't even handle flirting and coffee, you guys have a rough road ahead of you.

Speaking from personal experience, dealing with a mono/poly marriage when one party is resistant is no easy feat. I managed monogamy for my husband's sake for over a decade, and I was okay, but my feelings of something missing never went away, for all my husband's hoping they would. We had to confront it eventually. So, you can deal with this now, or wait, like I did, until it becomes your mid-life crisis.

 

[friskyone4u]

You two have obviously made some mistakes here. The first one was getting married. Your husband obviously did not listen to what you were saying, since it was obvious you were telling him that if you married him you would be dating other men at some point. Your mistake was assuming that since you told him how it was going to be and he gave you a lukewarm response that it would be okay. There was not enough discussion then. I think he said okay initially hoping that once you were married your feelings might go away. But they have not.

The simple fact is, fairly or not, the majority of men are not going to be okay with polyamory. Since you are both young and no children are involved, I see little hope that you are going to resolve this successfully. Now, you can have a different concept of what successful is. You can give him the time limit ultimatum and just go ahead and do it, and he may stay with you, for a while. But the odds of having the relationship sustained by you putting your foot on his throat is not good. You will be in this constant state of drama, wondering how long it will last. As Love Bunny said, your road ahead will be filled with anger, resentment, maybe bludgeoned acceptance for a time... hardly a recipe for a happy fulfilling relationship. Your husband will be miserable and he will make you miserable.

Your husband has to search his feelings and either accept the fact that for him to stay married to you, you are going to have other male sexual partners, or he has to leave you because you certainly know what you need and want.

Good luck,
F

P.S. The unicorn idea is silly.

 

[Inyourendo]

Wow. I honestly would have had the marriage annulled at that point. I would have been furious!

My ex-husband tried that unicorn hunting crap, and it doesn't work. It's a great way to ensure you never find another partner.

 

[GalaGirl]

I do not envy your situation. I am very sorry you are struggling with this right now.

Forcing a triad is not appealing to me at all: I am interested in an open relationship where we both date independently, but he won't even discuss it.

Maybe he is monoamorous and does not want to date. Have you discussed just you dating?

Definitely don't force a triad. Don't be sucking other people into this by dating them before this is cleared up between you.

I have tried to talk to him about what he's feeling, but he doesn't know why he's so strongly against it and isn't really interested in thinking about it.

Is he willing to read and circle anything that applies here?
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell
http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html

Labriola also has a jealousy workbook.

I think it would have been better for you to have dated that potential bf when your husband was still just your bf, too. You could have sorted this stuff out earlier, rather than later. Even so, in case it helps:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf

Core beliefs can change, but he would have to want to change them. He said on your honeymoon that he would never be okay with polyamory. Is that still his hard limit? If he's just not going there at all, ever, and you definitely do not want monogamy, then you two will remain incompatible. It would have been better to have sorted this out while dating than this far into the relationship.

I am afraid of compromising with him, that if I start out by doing what he's okay with, then it will completely shut the door for us to reexamine this later, and he will accuse me of trying to move the goalposts.

Have you articulated this fear to him? Have you suggested a different approach than what he suggests?

In the end, you are the only one who can determine what your willingness and ability is. Are you willing and able to compromise along the way? Is he?

Given his history for putting things off, this doesn't read as a "joyful yes" to me. It reads as, "How little can I do? How much can I manage to avoid dealing with?" Given your history for postponing things also, since both of you are responsible for co-creating this situation, I think you are both coming to a place where you are being called to stop putting off hard topics like you have in past, hoping it would sort itself out on its own or go away. You are coming to a place where you must learn to do better conflict resolution and not have it break out into fights.

I mean this kindly, not judgmentally at all.

You could both grow skills. You could both have the conversations that need to be had, get the lay of the land, and review all the options on the table, including considering if perhaps it is kinder to talk about an amicable split.

Again, I am so sorry.

Galagirl

 

[LovingRadiance]

When I explained to my husband that monogamy wasn't a reality, that at heart I was poly, that I wasn't going to continue to live a lie for his comfort; all hell broke loose. But my bottom line was, this is me. It's absolutely your choice if you can handle being with me or not, but I'm not going to pretend to be someone else for your comfort.

I agreed to staggering rules that decreased over a period of time, while he got used to the changes. Specified periods of time. Not including him not allowing me to be in contact with the other love of my life.

It was hell. I won't detail that hell here.

My advice from that experience is: you need to set your hard limits, and let him know what they are. He can choose to stay or go, but you aren't going to continue pretending to be someone else for his comfort. Tell him that you will respect his decision if he needs to leave. But loving you means loving who you really are. It does not mean loving the person he imagines you would be if you weren't polyamorous.

 

[IndieSolo]

I think most men resist the idea of their female partners being able to date other men because they see it as a reflection of their masculinity, you know? Like they're thinking, "I'm not man enough to keep my woman happy in the bedroom, that's why she gets it elsewhere." Or they are afraid that is what others will think and don't want to be seen as cuckolds. They are also usually afraid they won't measure up in comparison. A woman isn't as threatening because she has different parts and gives another woman a kind of lovin' a man cannot. And well, of course, if he can take the lazy man's way in and get in on some of that action... score!

Don't compromise on what you want. To go on a unicorn hunt when that's not what you want is sheer stupidity and will only set you and your marriage up for disaster. He lied to you and is now attempting to manipulate you out of fear. My suggestion is get into therapy together, preferably with a therapist or counselor who is poly-friendly or well-versed in alternative lifestyles. You have to confront and deal with his dishonesty and fears, I think, before moving forward.

 

[Marcus]

On our honeymoon he broke down and told me that he would never be okay with opening up. I was incredibly resentful for quite a while, but have recently started bringing it up again.

I too would have been resentful. I would have been resentful as I removed myself from his presence, went to the courthouse, got an annulment, and told him to call me if he ever decides to grow up (and not a moment before).

The fact that you stayed with him when he made this admission to you is startling to me. I cannot imagine someone leading me along and shoveling shit in my ears for that long and wanting to continue having a relationship that I know is based on an outright lie.

Would you compromise and be a unicorn chaser in this situation, hoping that he loosens up later on?

Me, personally? Aw, hell naw.

What do I think you should do? I would recommend you come to terms with exactly how willing you are to live within the restrictions of this person whose views of romantic relating are fundamentally incompatible to your own, and who has demonstrated that they are perfectly comfortable with lying to your face.

Do you want to coddle him? It sounds like he needs to get smacked in the mouth with reality. Your approach of "I'm going on a date. You can feel however you want to about it," is about the most giving I could imagine recommending to you.

Any tips for how to help a mono person be less threatened by sharing? He said even light flirting or a coffee date were totally unacceptable.

One thing to consider is that there are a number of mono folks who date poly folks and make it work. The issue with your husband is that he is not poly-friendly. It doesn't matter if he's mono or poly. The problem is that he wants you to be mono (which you aren't).

I'm not sure how to make someone more comfortable with letting another adult live their life. No doubt there are things you could try, but I am skeptical that long-term improvement is likely to progress to a degree that you'd notice.

Do you think, based on your experience, that he is coming around, or is he just telling me what I want to hear again?

I think, based on your experiences, that this fellow will say literally anything to get what he wants. He's proven that this is the case... beyond any doubt.

 

[FullofLove1052]

What I would do? Seek counselling or separate temporarily. I am not going to say annulment or divorce just yet. I would suggest a therapist who can handle relationships of any shape. We have a poly-friendly therapist, and even as the former polyamorist in my mono/poly marriage, I went into it with mixed feelings. I would suggest individual therapy for one/both and couples counselling.

He needs to find his voice, so to speak, and he needs to be able to articulate what he is feeling and why. Saying, "I do not like XYZ," means nothing if you cannot say, "I am not keen on XYZ because it makes me feel ____." In addition to that, work has to be done. He has to be willing to do the work. And there is work for you to do, as well.

Is he afraid of losing you? Is he afraid that you will want to have children with a future bf? Is he afraid that he will be displaced in your life? Is he afraid that his boundaries will be trampled over? Have you asked him if he is afraid of anything?

I would not be a unicorn hunter. What purpose would that serve but to wreck an already shaky marriage? It takes a while to open a relationship. Some couples spend a year or two or more, talking, seeking counselling, or addressing the issues in their relationship. I see cracks in the little that you have described. All polyamory will do right now is make those cracks worse. It is not fair to drag anyone into your unstable drama, and that includes a new partner. If you were seeking to date someone and you explained this, they would not touch it with a 3-metre pole.

You do not sound like you are compatible. Mono/poly relationships can work, but if your spouse is resistant, you are asking for trouble. Under no circumstances do you even need to attempt to get him on board with what you are thinking. You have to respect how he feels and create a safe haven for him to feel comfortable sharing what he thinks and feels. This is why I suggested counselling. Your attempts at communication might be failing because the communication is missing something. Trust is missing because he is being dishonest with you. Only he knows the motivation behind that. It could very well be that he is curtailing to you because he is afraid that if he says no outright, you will leave.

You cannot shut down or get frustrated because his views are not in line with what you want, either. You have to be open to what he is saying, and he has to be open to what you are saying. All frustration and irritation will do is breed resentment.

Your views are different. He will likely never understand why you want another man. One key is for him to learn how to be accepting of you and who you are/what you desire, and not just tolerant or accommodating for the sake of keeping you quiet and happy.

Baby steps. Guide him to this website, suggest books for him to read, give him resources, or find a therapist who is equipped to handle something like this. It helps to have someone stand in the gap.

I hope it works out for you.

 

[WhiteTulips]

Wow. Thank you for your thoughts, everyone. I truly took something from every reply and am still considering everything that's been said. Your feedback has definitely made me feel more sane! I'm glad I'm not alone in my perception of the situation.


FullofLove1052: therapy is something I'm very interested in, and he has agreed to go. The problem is finding a poly-friendly therapist. We live in the Bible Belt, and not in a very big city, either. I'd rather not rush into it and have a super bad experience. But I'm hoping I'll find someone soon.

You may be right that there is something lost in the communication. I feel like I'm asking the right questions, but they may not click with him, or maybe just make him feel defensive. Hopefully therapy can help with this.

GalaGirl: He would prefer us to date as a couple, or not at all. He doesn't particularly want to date, but is dead set against me doing it alone. You are right about us dancing around the tough stuff until it's basically too late. That is definitely something I will think about regarding all aspects of the relationship. Your post was very thought-provoking, so thank you for that, and also for the links! I skimmed them and hope they will be helpful.

LoveBunny: this really resonated with me. Thank you. I will definitely keep your words in mind going forward. All else considered, I will probably use the idea of giving him a set timeframe, hopefully after we get into therapy, so that there is an outlet to work through feelings.

Thanks again to everyone who posted. I really appreciate the different perspectives.

 

[GalaGirl]

What is it about you dating alone that triggers your husband? Is he worried you will get hurt? Or maybe that he will not be known? What about him coming to the first meet up so the other person knows he exists? You could keep talking.

If he really does not want to date, what does him dating and being there solve for him? What is is his need? Could it be solved another way?

http://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory

Counseling-wise, I do not know if this could help, with its links...

http://blog.unchartedlove.com/polyamory-therapy-counseling-resources-and-survey/

If part of the problem lies in communication style, maybe talking with sheets helps make it less aggressive/defensive. Then you can just mark where you leave off. You do not have to do it all in one go. And it is only a sheet of paper. You could ask if he is willing to read it together and talk.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

HTH,
Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi WhiteTulips,

Sorry you're stuck in such a crappy dilemma.

I hate to bandy about the D word, but ... divorce?

In particular, divorce *before* any children arrive on the scene.

The guy strung you along, subjecting you (by surprise degrees) to his heavy-handed training course of turning you into a properly monogamous wife. You "failed the course," he's pissed, and he wants to start you on a new training course (the "Unicorn Training Course").

Re (from OP):

"I have considered forcing the issue (I'm going on a date tonight, how you respond is your choice) but I'm not sure if it's that dire yet. He said before that he would never leave me because of my polyness, but I know he'd be hurt."

That's emotional blackmail. "You'll be guilty of hurting me if you do what you want to do, even though you told me from the beginning it was what you wanted -- yea even required." Worse yet, "You'll rob me of my happiness if you don't let me possess and control you." I guess that's what he's always wanted from the beginning (that was necessary to his happiness).

Re:

"I am afraid of compromising with him, that if I start out by doing what he's okay with then it will completely shut the door for us to reexamine this later and he will accuse me of trying to move the goalposts."

Accuse you?? This would be coming from the guy who's the master of moving goalposts.

Re (from bookbug):

"At the worst, he lied to you, and at the least he lied to himself about his ability to deal with poly."

Either way, the lies issued from him, belong to him, and are his responsibility. If I hit a pedestrian in my car, I don't get off the hook just because it was an accident. Responsible people take responsibility for their own goof-ups, regardless of whether they intended to goof up.

Re (from LoveBunny):

"I'd give him one more warning, as in 'Honey, in five months I am going to start looking for a man to date. Do your inner work, and let's work out some guidelines, so you can be okay with the situation.'"

Go LoveBunny!

Re:

"I'm sure he hoped he'd relax into it, but now it's clear one of you isn't going to get what you want."

Divorce?

Re:

"I know he says he'll never leave you because of polyamory, but what if he makes both your lives hell because he's miserable and resentful and the marriage disintegrates?"

Divorce.

Re: tips for how to help a mono person be less threatened by sharing ... are all well and good if the mono person is willing to *try.* From what I'm reading, your husband is far from willing to try. If he wants to open up about what specific concerns he has about polyamory, then we can possibly start addressing those concerns.

I suppose it never hurts to try poly-friendly therapy. Just don't have any kids in the meantime -- please. Keep your options open.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.