I am angry. I am bitter. I am devastated.

The OP has stated that they don't get to see each other as much because his family is frequently visiting him at his place. She has also stated that the bf is daydreaming with the OP about some time in the future when they'll be able to "settle in" together in his place. That tells me that he is putting his family first when it comes to managing his time and personal space, and also it seems obvious that he doesn't feel he has the freedom to invite her over more often or have her settle in with him there. She did mention they are not "out" about their relationship, which is another factor.

Saying no to family, or having a hard time saying no to family, does not automatically imply that there is a bad or difficult relationship with family. People with very loving families and healthy dynamics often feel a sense of obligation to be there for family no matter what, and can have a difficult time saying no at those times they want privacy and some distance. The fact is, if he wants to see her and have her over more often, he has the power to make that happen.

This.
AveragePerson, can you and your BF plan your time together in advance? It's far easier to turn someone away when you have concrete plans. If I have nothing planned in the calendar and then I make plans with someone else, it's not something I feel comfortable cancelling if my partner happens to become available.
 
....it seems someone is always there. He and I talk and daydream about the day the dust settles so we can settle in ourselves. Guess that's the case when you're not "open" about your lifestyle.

How much time you spend with one person or another doesn't have much to do with how "out" you are, but everything to do with your priorities. If he is a people pleaser and oriented outward, taking his cues from others, then yes, he will get swept up in what others expect and want. If he is his own man and has a clear sense of what's right for himself, he will spend time with who he wants, when he wants. This really has nothing to do with circumstances and everything to do with his internal compass.
 
How does one earn up to equality ? Was it a points system ?

How many credits was he short ?

Regardless of the rest of this thread, this question caught my attention. So I am going to respond to get it off of my "to do" list.

Each relationship is a separate entity. I don't give my "trust" to someone automagically - they have to earn it. I had to "learn" to trust people - assuming the 1st time went well the 2nd time might go better. If the 1st time failed miserably the second time might take longer.

"Equality" like "Fairness" is relative.

Someone spends 2 decades breaking through your walls, "earning" your trust, "proving" that they love you over and over again despite your misgivings. So you should love someone else to the SAME degree because they spent 2 years, 2 months, 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes, 2 seconds NOT being a douche? NO! Each case is different. I was a different person at 18 when I met MrS - It took me 18 months to say "I love you" (which was my first time - to anyone). The second time, 19 YEARS later, it took me 9 months to say the same to Dude (that was 5 years ago). Does that mean I love him MORE? (cuz it took me less TIME) or less? (cuz I don't love him EQUAL)? Fuck it. I love him, and we will explore that connection.

Maybe the next guy/girl, 9 or 99 years from now, will take 4.5 months or 3 years for me to get to the "love" point.

Love is not Monopoly - "Do not pass GO, Do not collect $200" - just because you CAN love two people "equally" does not mean that you are REQUIRED to. JEEZ - let people be a little human for a minute.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your reply JQS:D

I was under the impression that the context of ravenscrofts comment was a triad. All the triads I've seen / had contact with have the stated goal of equality going in. Personally I don't know any unicorn hunters....although I've seen some threads on here about that.

And it wasn't stated what earned equality actually means. Is it time and attention, trust, date nights solo, access to bank accounts, being able to park in the garage first come first serve. To me it had the sound of couples privileged.


Are you saying in triad fairness is relative ??



I'm not sure I get the point of your example. AN 18 yr old GIRL took 18 months to say she loves someone.....ok......and the 37 yr old WOMAN it took 9month. Earned trust, greater love, or practice ......or a 37 yr woman knowing metric ton more than an 18yr old girl. I'm tipping this to the 37 yr old woman and I'd start the clock from then. And it wouldn't surprise me if the next man or woman you say I love you to take 5month or the same 9 months or longer.

Clearly that event is/ was a big deal and not to be taken lightly because all that means something to you. But is there a time delay from having the feelings vs when you actually say the words out loud? Just thinking out loud here but in both cases ( hypothetically ) you may have had those feeling with in a month or 2 and it took 16 months and 7 months to articulate it. You're just getting better at expressing those deep emotions...possibly.

And yes I do think it means you love dude more ......kidding :D I have no idea what it means.
 
All the triads I've seen / had contact with have the stated goal of equality going in.
There's a slightly vast difference between "intention" & "assumption" -- bloody obvious, nicht wahr? :p IME, lots of people leap into poly assuming that because they WANT equality, then it's a done deal. Kinda like the widespread assumption that, because polyamory requires thoroughgoing communication in order to work, claiming to be poly means they're suddenly GREAT communicators. :rolleyes:
And it wasn't stated what earned equality actually means.
A few words back, you sorta said that you were capable of defining "equality," something that's been (inevitably) lacking in this discussion. And when equality is a goal (as you said), is it to be earned from shared experience, or does it just magically happen?
Are you saying in triad fairness is relative ??
:rolleyes: You just said that equality (whatever THAT is) is a very common stated goal. You should be the one to explain: if it's a goal, then how does anyone know when it's been achieved?
 
I am confused by your last post, Ravenscroft. I have the feeling that you are missing Dingedheart's point, for some reason. Your responses don't seem to be answering his questions, or maybe I am just not understanding what you've said here.

This is the train I was following (see the words in Bold). You wrote:
. . . in the end he could not accept that he was an equal partner. That she loved me, I loved her, & we wanted him to earn up to equality.

To which Dingedheart asked:
How does one earn up to equality ? Was it a points system ?

How many credits was he short ?

And, after Jane answered with her interpretation, which didn't quite address what YOU meant by "earning up to equality," Dingedheart then responded:
I was under the impression that the context of ravenscrofts comment was a triad . . . And it wasn't stated what earned equality actually means. Is it time and attention, trust, date nights solo, access to bank accounts, being able to park in the garage first come first serve. To me it had the sound of couples privileged.

And I am still not clear on what you meant when you said you and your female partner "wanted him to earn up to equality." How would he have "earned up," specifically? That is what Dingedheart and I are puzzled about.
 
Last edited:
Equality and fairness may be 'relative' in some sense. They may differ from one relationship to another, and exactly what is acceptable, but I would also like to know just how and when a secondary or new partner achieves anything like equality, and why anyone would stay long term if they are always going to be the appendage.

During the second year of my relationship with XBF, his wife obviously had some issues and started playing the silent veto game. Just making things awkward and difficult. Letting me know where I stood and what I was really worth. He let her. He pretended to me that it wasn't really happening, that I was imagining things.

When I pressed him, he finally admitted, up front, his marriage is his priority. He had insisted all along that they were all about treating people as equal relationships, equal partners, as full and real relationships. But by definition, 'she is my priority,' at two years in, means 'and that means you are not my priority and never will be.'

[A major problem here is that he lied to me. He showed by his actions that he would throw me under the bus to appease her, when he swore to me that would never happen.]

Why would anyone in their right mind stick around to be treated like a second-class citizen? It's a fair question for the new partner to want to know how this works, if, when, and how, they are going to be regarded as a full and equal person and relationship.
 
I am confused by your last post, Ravenscroft. I have the feeling that you are missing Dingedheart's point, for some reason. Your responses don't seem to be answering his questions, or maybe I am just not understanding what you've said here.
.

I have a feeling he didn't miss point of that question at all. He didn't want to answer it. Just like he didn't answer you just quoting Jane in her V dynamic .


Jane : I forgot to tell you I was flattered to make your " to do " list :D

Ravencroft : Thanks you clearing that up for everyone.....clear as mud.

There's a slightly vast difference between "intention" & "assumption" -- bloody obvious, nicht wahr? IME, lots of people leap into poly assuming that because they WANT equality, then it's a done deal. Kinda like the widespread assumption that, because polyamory requires thoroughgoing communication in order to work, claiming to be poly means they're suddenly GREAT communicators.
[All the triads I've seen / had contact with have the stated goal of equality going in.
There's a slightly vast difference between "intention" & "assumption" -- bloody obvious, nicht wahr? IME, lots of people leap into poly assuming that because they WANT equality, then it's a done deal. Kinda like the widespread assumption that, because polyamory requires thoroughgoing communication in order to work, claiming to be poly means they're suddenly GREAT communicators.


Slightly vast......slightly means small ...vast large ....which do you mean ?

I agree there is a difference between intention and assumption. But that doesn't sound like that was the issue in your case ....unless you let him assume he'd be equal and you had no " intention " granting equality with out lots of blood sweat and tears. Every 3 yrs it can be brought up to the membership committee. I liked the slipping of the Germany phrase ...it really help make the point :D. Nicht wahr

I'm confused as how you can make such an insulting/ disparaging remark about your poly brothers and sisters " leaping " into poly for whatever reasons and making a blanket statement about the greater poly community's communication skills. From what I know those triads work very hard on their collective intention of equality and the reality of their actions which I guess is the litmus test.

If I have a chance to talk with any of them I'll direct them to this thread and also ask if there assumptions of equality ...or lack of ...played a huge role in their day to day interactions.


" And it wasn't stated what earned equality actually means."

A few words back, you sorta said that you were capable of defining "equality," something that's been (inevitably) lacking in this discussion. And when equality is a goal (as you said), is it to be earned from shared experience, or does it just magically happen?

I wasn't defining equality I was throwing out questions or topics.

And here instead of answering the question how it was in your triad you ask the question ...." Is it to be earned form shared experience or does it just magically happen ?" I think you're hinting at some sort of of shared experience .....to be reviewed at the membership committee on the 3 Sunday of the 3rd month of the third yr. see what I did there :D:D...( triade German spelling) ... I know it's kind of a let down.


Are you saying in triad fairness is relative ??

You just said that equality (whatever THAT is) is a very common stated goal. You should be the one to explain: if it's a goal, then how does anyone know when it's been achieved?

Really ....

Me ....someone who's never been in a triad should answer the question is fairness relative.


OK ....I guess from your response and janes and WH yes fairness is relative.....slightly vastly relative.

And equality is relative too.
 
Last edited:
Ravencroft : Thanks you clearing that up for everyone.....clear as mud.
Well, you're totally welcome, bless your little heart! But I just try to match my response to the manner in which the question is asked, so I guess all the credit really belongs elsewhere. :D If you want to actually ask a question rather than take every nitpicky opportunity to "not understand" me, I'll be glad to make an effort at answering, in simple plain English, & words of no more than three syllables.
I'm confused as how you can make such an insulting/ disparaging remark about your poly brothers and sisters ... and making a blanket statement about the greater poly community's communication skills.
  1. The vast majority of selfstyled polyfolk are not in any way my siblings. Neither are they yours. Or that of each other.
  2. There is no "poly community," much less some "greater" bunch.
 
Back
Top