I need help, my boyfriend is just dating one woman after another!

[Magdlyn]

I saw Ginger twice this week, so far, Sunday and yesterday (Tuesday).

On the Saturday he and I had a hard talk online about this Carla stuff. Midday he turned off his chat. Meanwhile, Pixi went off for her overnight with her Master, and I was alone on a Saturday night (cue sad love song). I took care of myself. I was slightly depressed, but not terrible. I enjoyed the peace.

Pixi returned Sunday while Ginger was here visiting me. We had a nice few hours together, then he left. Monday, Pixi and I had errands to run, and also went shopping and out to lunch, a nice girls' day out. My back felt so much better despite all the hours in the car. It was encouraging.

Workers were busy putting a new roof on our house that day and yesterday morning. We had two areas of flood this winter-- from above, the leaking roof, and from below, roots in an outlet pipe causing a flood and necessitating a full renovation of the finished basement. So, now the basement is dry, and a new roof will keep melting ice out of our living room upstairs next winter. This adds to my much-needed sense of security.

Yesterday (Tuesday), Pixi had to go out in the evening for a late dental appt in Boston. Ginger came over with some plants from his garden for me. (He took some of my plants for his garden the other day.) We had our usual brief chat, followed by lengthy satisfying sex. (Maybe too lengthy for my back, but the rest of me enjoyed it.)

As we lay in afterglow, he said, "Maybe it's time to talk about Carla." And told me he'd had a one-on-one date with her three days ago, on the previous Saturday. She'd come to his cabin. And since this was their first one-on-one date since their feelings grew, he was happy to see the spark and connection is really there.

So, that night when he had his chat turned off, he was with Carla, while Pixi was with Master, and I was alone with my book.

Ginger told me that Carla's husband David had put restrictions on what they could do... I don't know what they did or didn't do. I didn't dare ask. And since I didn't ask for more details, not feeling "allowed" to, or that I "should," I felt shut out. I felt a wall of disconnect and lessening of intimacy coming down between us. I also knew the option of knowing more, of maybe knowing ahead of time about their date, or knowing details of the date itself, would not probably have made me feel any better, either!

I laid there quietly while he tried to parse my emotions. I blew it off.

We got up and tended to the dog, then lit a fire, sat on the couch, played old Simon and Garfunkel vinyl albums, sang along some, diddled each other again some. On the surface, a romantic date. In my head and heart, emotions tussled and clawed at each other.

 

[Magdlyn]

(Continued)

I needed to go get Pixi from her train. Ginger left then too. I felt depressed, closed down, jaded, and again, that slight disgust and bitterness that draws down the corners of my mouth.

I went to bed rather early after having a late dinner and chat with Pixi about Ginger's revelation.

This morning, he said hi on chat and I told him about my emotions. He is sorry for my suffering, lack of trust, feelings of lesser intimacy. In the course of the conversation he said:

"There have been a very few times in my life when I have gotten to know someone and they just seemed to click with me in a special way. R (his wife) was the first. You were the second.

It is very early, and all kinds of things may happen, but you may be sensing that I think Carla might be the third.

My my, did I actually say that?"

Me: "Apparently."

Him: "I'm not sure it was quite that clear in my mind until just now. Or it may just be NRE..."

So, there we go. He tried some more to reassure me of his love for me, his pain at seeing my suffering, acknowledgment of how the slow pace necessitated by Carla's husband is possibly increasing his ardor for her, etc., etc.

I do not fear losing him over her. I feel oddly competitive, since she is so much like a 15-years younger version of myself, a stay-at-home mom of three, a pagan, a dancer, creative and smart. Of course, I said, she is not my clone. She has qualities that make us different.

Pixi gets such different things from her two current OSOs, than I can offer. Ginger however, seems to get much of the same things I offer, from his new "love." Sigh...

I feel so insecure and whiny and that makes me feel ugly and undesirable.

I seem to have large issues with trusting men!

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.

 

[KC43]

I don't have advice to offer, but I wanted to let you know you aren't alone in having your heart not quite match your head when it comes to polyamory. I hope you are able to work through the situation. It sounds like you and Ginger are having some good communication about this.

(And I get insecure and whiny sometimes too.)

 

[GalaGirl]

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.

Here's one behavior I spot that could change to see if it helps or not.

We had our usual brief chat, followed by lengthy satisfying sex (maybe too lengthy for my back, but the rest of me enjoyed it).

As we lay in afterglow, he said, "Maybe it's time to talk about Carla."

That sounded awkward and like it led to some distancing later.

I know for me, the LAST thing I want to be doing in post-sex cozy is relationship-management talk about OTHER relationships. I'd rather be doing that when I'm emotionally prepared to go there, not when I'm wide open and and vulnerable.

Sex can feel cozy and make people want to share stuff. But that has to be tempered by does the other person want to RECEIVE that data at that time/place?

Hang in there!
Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

We have a lot of sex, so we are more often in post-sex coziness than not. I wish it were that simple.

He said he wanted to tell me in person. We can have more success discussing things intellectually online though, when we aren't all endorphiney.

 

[GalaGirl]

He said he wanted to tell me in person. We can have more success discussing things intellectually online though, when we aren't all endorphiney.

There you go. Sounds like you know it already.

He may want to tell in person. But if that isn't effective, you have to deal with what your dyad needs to have happen (talks) and set aside wants. You could focus on the desired outcome and be flexible about the method.

It would be nice if both the wants/needs could line up. But if they aren't, you could accept the reality right now and get on with the show. Maybe in future, you both can get to a place where talking in person about this becomes effective.

But at this time, go with what works better now, so the thing gets done, rather than taking an ineffective path and adding more layers of UGH to it.

Take away from the problems, do not ADD to the problems.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, all right, GG, maybe telling me during afterglow wasn't ideal. He and I talked online more this morning, and I felt able to tell him about my disconnected feelings towards him last night, in an ironically romantic atmosphere of fire, music and cuddling.

My ex-husband's gf was petite and dark haired like Carla, also a granola girl and a massage therapist. I know I am totally triggered back to that dark time, when I nearly died from submitting, from feeling nullified by his love for her, becoming so depressed I needed therapy and Zoloft.

This is now 15 years past that time. I recovered, I made changes, I got divorced, I got my own apartment for the first time in my life, I fell in love with Pixi, I dated many others. I had fun, I grew, I became reborn.

I moved in with Pixi, to a house nearer to Ginger. Then, Ginger started power dating and now has this click with Carla, this click of "This is the real thing."

Despite all my growth and learning and strength, I am worn down by a bad back, floods, and disappointment at this need of Ginger's for a fourth partner. And now he's all in NRE, and I am thrown back to the dark place of 15 years ago. Not quite to that depth of despair! He's much more communicative than my ex, and I've got the support of Pixi, and the people here. I am not breaking up a home, impacting my children's lives, this time. I just don't know what I need, from Ginger, or from myself, or how much of it I need, to feel safe and valued again.

5 love languages:

He brought me plants from his garden. GIFTS
He tells me he loves me more now. WORDS OF AFFIRMATION
He helps me in my garden and around the house. SERVICE
He sexes me up, and cuddles me, too. TOUCH
He focuses on me when he's with me. QUALITY TIME

What more could I need? Time? Is that all it will take? Just getting used to this?

But then again, time will probably lead to Ginger and Carla becoming closer and closer! I fear that as well. I don't want to have to hear about their growing love. Shit. I don't care! It doesn't bring me joy. I don't feel compersion. It just makes me sick.

 

[GalaGirl]

What more could I need? Time? Is that all it will take? Just getting used to this?

Get used to which behavior?

• Used to him dating Carla in general?
• Or him not respecting your limit that you don't want to hear about Carla? At all? Not just post-sex, but AT ALL? And he keeps on talking?

I know this is hard and it isn't funny like "haha" funny, but I find it funny he says this--

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.

... and makes it a "we" thing, when the simplest path, to me, is what "he" can do in his own behavior: Stop talking to Mags about Carla.

But ok, it's a "we project" then.

He does X, you do Y.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

I just don't know what I need, from Ginger, or from myself, or how much of it I need, to feel safe and valued again.

• Maybe having your limits and boundaries respected by Ginger?
• And when he crosses the line you could do the "lather, rinse, repeat" behavior?

"This is talking about Carla. We do not talk about Carla. Please respect my limit. You can talk about Carla with your pal ____." ​

Anything Carla-ish, that's your response. Lather, rinse, repeat.

While it can be boring and annoying, it's simple to execute. Play the broken record. That's less energy than trying to talk on and on. You are tired right now and don't have plenty of energy to spend. Sometimes there is no compromise thing -- it's just limit reached.

To me, it sounds like it is going to boil down to keeping and enforcing healthy boundaries with an Asperger's person, even if it takes longer for a "bee in the bonnet" to shoo than it would in a non-Asperger's person. It's part of the price of admission to date Ginger. He's got Asperger's, and will have some of that play into your interactions.

Hang in there.
Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Get used to which behavior?

• Used to him dating Carla in general?
• Or him not respecting your limit that you don't want to hear about Carla? At all? Not just post sex but AT ALL? And he keeps on talking?

Getting used to him dating Carla, or anyone else. Not the talking about it. I'd rather the dating itself wasn't happening. But that is the price of admission for dating an active poly guy, who wants a seemingly unlimited amount of partners.

... the simplest path is what "he" can do in his own behavior: Stop talking to Mags about Carla.

No, I appreciate you trying to wade through this swamp of emotions and behaviors with me, but it's not the amount of talking about. Talk too much, I get disgusted.Tell me too little and expect me to ask for no more detail (like last night), I feel disconnected!

Well, one good thing. All last week I was complaining I didn't feel "special" enough in the midst of all these other women. He had said he didn't "do special." (Although he finally admitted I was "important" to him.) But this morning in chat he did say:

There have been a very few times in my life when I have gotten to know someone and they just seemed to click with me in a special way. R was the first. You were the second. [Carla may be the third.]

Ha! He said special.

 

[GalaGirl]

Hrm... sounds like a learning curve then. And that does take time. Figuring out how much is is too much info and how much is too little info. And learning to ask for the behaviors you want.

He doesn't "do" special on his own, but you seem to have derived comfort from him telling you that you are special and important to him. Could you ask him to do more of that?

Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

I know for me, the LAST thing I want to be doing in post-sex cozy is relationship management talk about OTHER relationships. I'd rather be doing that when I'm emotionally prepared to go there, not when I'm wide open and and vulnerable.

I am the opposite. I've usually/always had the best discussions about relationships, and life in general, while in bed with someone after fucking, or on a break in between fucking. My worst discussions about serious relationship issues were done over a cup of tea at the table.

So, while it may be for some that post-coital time is when people are feeling most vulnerable, it isn't that way for everyone. As I see it, Mags, he felt close to you and wanted to have a loving, honest discussion with you at that moment. I really don't see the fact that you'd just had sex as such a wrong move and something you need to focus on and turn into a big issue. I see your inner work in coming to terms with his interest in others as a more pressing need for you than making a big deal out of him having talked to you about Carla while in bed with you.

 

[Magdlyn]

I see your inner work in coming to terms with his interest on others as a more pressing need for you than making a big deal out of him having talked to you about Carla while in bed with you.

I quite agree, and don't mean to make a big deal about it. It's not so much he told me right after the fucking, it's that he told me about their date 3 full days after it happened, when he could have told me 1 day before. I'm not mad about it, since he said he wanted time for himself to process how the date went, and what he found out about the importance of their relationship during the date, before he tried to put it into words for me.

But now I've had time to think about it, I do think I'd rather know about an impending date a day or 2 before! It's just nice to know his schedule, and where I fit in it, if nothing else.

 

[InfinitePossibility]

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.

In my experience with having positive, rational thoughts about something being sabotaged by problematic emotions, it takes time, particularly if the problematic emotions have a good reason for being there, as yours do. You had a pretty horrible experience with your ex. I know it was a long time ago, and that Ginger isn't your ex, but I think it'll take a while for your emotions to know that, too.

Time, gentle exposure to the difficult area, celebrating small victories, and making sure to take plenty of time and patience with yourself as you work through it. I don't think there is a quick fix, but I do think that some relationships are worth the effort.

 

[YouAreHere]

Ginger wonders how we can get my heart to feel better around this, to get in line with the simple poly principles my head understands and endorses.

I don't have much to add that other folks haven't already said, but I feel you here. You know time is my big bugaboo (well, one of them, but generally the meatier of all the bugaboos), and I still wrestle with the head versus heart thing-- "Of course he needs time to do x/y/z" versus "Why is he choosing to spend MORE time away from me?!"

For my particular issue, we just need to keep addressing it. I don't ask, nor do I want Chops to not go out. I want to deal with it when he does, and see if it gets more tolerable, or if it's something we need to change, or adjust. I guess finding the little things, e.g., Ginger not giving you all the details of his other relationships, that help make it easier, despite your head telling you that it "should" be one way or another.

Heck, PM me (we're not all THAT far apart, geographically, I don't think) if you want to just get together over coffee (or even just virtually) and vent, if you just need to blow some steam. Sometimes, just carping about the stuff you're feeling lets it get acknowledged, felt, and able to be put aside for a bit.

 

[Magdlyn]

I don't have much to add that other folks haven't already said, but I feel you here. You know time is my big bugaboo (well, one of them, but generally the more meatier of all the bugaboos), and I still wrestle with the head versus heart thing ("Of course he needs time to do x/y/z" versus "Why is he choosing to spend MORE time away from me?!").

For my particular issue, we just need to keep addressing it (I don't ask, nor do I want Chops to not go out - I want to deal with it when he does, and see if it gets more tolerable, or if it's something we need to change, or adjust), and I guess finding the little things (e.g., Ginger not giving you all the details of his other relationships) that help make it easier, despite your head telling you that it "should" be one way or another.

Heck, PM me (we're not all THAT far apart, geographically, I don't think) if you want to just get together over coffee (or even just virtually) and vent, if you just need to blow some steam. Sometimes, just carping about the stuff you're feeling lets it get acknowledged, felt, and able to be put aside for a bit.

Thanks so much, YouAreHere! I might just take you up on that. Perhaps you live in or near Nashua... I lived in Lowell til I moved down near Rt 9 a year ago.

I've updated on my recent feelings in my blog. As I wrote that, I thought, I need to get away from feeling detached from him. I am not going to let myself start to close off from him. I tend, too often, to cut people out of my life when they've hurt me. I think he's worth the effort.

So, two nights ago, he was free, and I had him come over just to talk. No sex. He arrived at 6:30 and we talked 'til 1AM. Pixi offered to mediate, and we agreed she'd let Ginger and me talk for a while, and then come in after our initial vents.

It was a marathon communication session and I still am confused on some points. But I do feel I learned a lot about his motivations and desires around dating in general, and Carla specifically. I also made it quite clear it was a douche move (w/o using that term) to not tell me they'd had their first date until after we'd been together twice. He admitted he should've told me the following day, not three days later. But he wanted at least one peaceful date with me, with no talk of her, no angst.

He said he was too mad at me the day of their date to tell me, as they made their plans kind of last minute and he didn't want to tell me and have to have a discussion around it just before her arrival. Pixi pointed out that if he and I were so upset with each other, maybe he shouldn't have met her at all that day?

But, what's done is done. They walked, they talked, they kept their clothes on, they made out a while. They felt that "spark," and want to move forward.

I found out that the guy Carla had the hots for last year... they never even got to a first date. The other guy couldn't hack it. Maybe David was freaking out too much.

Speaking of David, the morning after our talking marathon, he messaged Ginger, saying he wanted to come see him. He assured Ginger he wasn't coming over to beat him up! I guess he wanted to make sure Ginger's intentions were honorable. According to Ginger, their hour-long meet went well, and he even told David about what I'd said, that it can take years for a formerly mono couple to really get okay with being open, especially if one of the partners is mono. I always feel Carla is pushing David to hurry up and get okay with all this!

Ginger being Aspie is making this harder. He just doesn't easily empathize with others' emotions. That night of our talk, I was so upset. And sometimes he'd laugh, scoffingly, at my upset. That hurt and I told him to stop it.

One more point to this novella: I realized at some point yesterday that I feel like a disappointed newlywed. I plan to never marry again, but moving into a house with Pixi Mayday 2013 felt like marriage in a way, a commitment. And I reminded Ginger how he continually encouraged us to move to his town, or as close as we could. We looked all over between Boston and Worcester, and anytime a house was 10 miles or more away, he'd complain-- too far! Oddly, he tried to deny he'd done this, until I reminded him of example after example.

So, Pixi and I didn't move in with Ginger, but we got as close as we could. We committed to that. And as soon as we did, he was off and running, pursuing half a dozen other people. *sigh* Coulda waited 'til the honeymoon was over, couldn't he? I feel so domestic and "nesty" right now, as Pixi and I settle in, decorate, enjoy our new more countrified environment, gardening, grilling on our deck, all that. And Ginger is seeming all wild and slutty and off in his own world.

Funnily, he kept getting all insulted when I talked about his strong sex drive. Pixi and I claim the word slut, but he kept being insulted when I told him he was slutty like me. I guess, as a man, he doesn't want to seem creepily overly focused on sex. But we both told him he just exudes sex. Women fall at his feet. Then he said sex is only 10% of what he is looking for in relationships, and in fact, he could have a close romantic relationship with no sex at all. I said, "Perfect! Why don't you just not have sex with Carla at all, and save me this pain?"

The look on his face was priceless, like a baby who'd just had the boob yanked from their mouth. LOL. I said, "Ginger, don't try to kid a kidder. I know you're just as much of a horndog as I am. I know you!"

 

[YouAreHere]

It sounds like maybe you feel a bit of a bait-and-switch with respect to the living arrangements? That Ginger's input didn't lead to a situation where you feel he's as invested as you and Pixi are?

Nice "you can't kid a kidder" moment, BTW. Is he not admitting his sex drive to himself, or just to other people?

As for getting together, I'll PM you. I live about a half-hour east of Nashua, but I'm not unfamiliar with the Rt. 9 area. I've got some friends in Westborough I see every so often, and Chops and I used to meet up in Marlborough/Worcester from time to time, before the living arrangements settled out.

I'm glad you got the opportunity to talk. How does it feel now, after having time to settle and digest? (Or is this where your blog comes in?) I know that when I detach from Chops, it means something's wrong and I'm trying to protect myself, which I *don't* want to do. Protecting myself by distancing myself only hurts my relationship with him, and makes it harder to reconnect. But boy, is it easy to do when you're hurting, and you just want to take your hand off the stove for a little while.

 

[KC43]

You all aren't far from me, either. I'm in Boston-ish.

Glad the communication is opening up, Magdlyn.

 

[IndieSolo]

Sounds like a good talk. Both of you got to express what you've wanted to say, and both of you learned a little bit more about yourselves and each other. I'd say, no mater what the outcome is with Carla, that is good stuff for a strong relationship between you two.

 

[london]

If my partner suggested I refrain from sex with my new partner, I'd really be horrified.

 

[Magdlyn]

If my partner suggested I refrain from sex with my new partner, I'd really be horrified.

Haha, hello Miss Literal. I said it to test what he was saying about sex being so unimportant to him. Going on about how he's gone without sex for years at a time and so on. That he's not pursuing women with sex on his mind. Frankly, I thought he was lying to himself, or downplaying how sexual he was to seem more "pure" or "spiritual" or "feminist" or something.

I knew damn well he desires greatly to fuck Carla. He's told me outright they are "hot" for each other. So, I wasn't buying this schtick about him not needing or wanting sex all that much, that that isn't part of his motivation to be dating so much right now. I just needed him to grow up and admit to his sluttiness, since that evidence is constantly in my face. It takes one to know one, I said. Don't kid a kidder.

I found out the times he's gone without sex were when he felt more Asperger's than he does now, when he was more introverted, his wife was becoming less and less interested in sex, and his boys were starting school and needing lots of parental interventions to meet their needs (both Asperger's).

But that said, he did lose his virginity young. He always had gfs throughout high school, college and grad school. Women are drawn to him like moths to flame, knickers thrown to the winds.

15 years ago he became more social and started joining pagan groups, and friending women on FB, and dating. Then OKC came into the picture. His growth involved "fitting in" as more NT now, learning social graces so he doesn't come off as awkward and "weird" (his word), feeling accepted and even liked by his social groups, and also, having gfs and having sex with them.

He has told me about one woman he met through OKC, who didn't want sex, but wanted a tennis partner, and so they did that for a couple years. (He was however, dating two other women at the time whom he got to bang... lol) Otherwise, he's had sexual relationships, some more brief and casual, some more serious, for the huge majority of his life.