I'm a hypocrite, and I don't know what to do
- Thread starter Miket
- Start date
He would not at all be okay with that.
Well, don't you contribute to the household, either financially, or by doing the work?
Isn't mutual affection a more important reason to stay together than finances?
This is a very unfortunate stereotype - that men have to somehow "buy" women.
Still, a feeling of being used can occur - it can at times seem like the cohabitating partner gets all the grind and the other gets all the fun. That's a trap to be worked with/avoided in polyamory.
On the other hand, my experience is, that being the one who doesn't get to entangle life with their partner is really painful too (I'm female, but still). It's like they have a cohabitating and therefore more cooperating unit, and then there is me, who's completely on my own, and lacking the safety net.
So you can tell him that there's trouble from both sides.
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FallenAngelina
Well-known member
This initial reaction based on propriety of females, as others have pointed out, seems to be fairly common. It would explain the OPP and why he feels OK about another woman as your lover, but not another man. It is indeed an ownership model - the pressure of the responsibility he feels for you coupled with the shame of not possessing all of your "virtues" in return. I agree with Refusink that your husband seems to have the wherewithal to examine this deeply engrained social response to full polyamory and come to see the upside of spouses embracing lovers of any gender they choose.
I see this stereotype working slightly differently. It's "sex is a hard to come by commodity, to get it, you have to buy it with money/work/care/responsibility". (But maybe it's just a difference in wording, it's just that the thing that is owned is not really the female, but her sexuality - depends on the OP which they have internalized.)
FunSlut: I understand that your husband, Miket, has a lot of emotional baggage to get over from having been cheated on in the past and feels as if he (and his income) were used so that his ex could go out and have a good time at his expense, literally.
Regardless, from what I've gleaned from his posts here, Miket definitely seems to have a somewhat patriarchal, almost "ownership" mentality when it comes to women, and especially you, his wife.
If you read my lengthy first response in this thread, you'll see I have a deal of sympathy for his position, as I've battled with similar issues of jealousy and hypocrisy within my own "V"-verging-on-triad type arrangement.
However, I can also see this from your point of view, as a fellow heteroflexible/bi/bi-curious woman (however you identify, I'm not sure), in that - although you/we may get pleasure from sexual interactions and relationships with women - our orientation and interests tends to skew more toward attraction to men and male bodies, or at least, equally so.
Therefore, it seems unfair, unbalanced and, yes, hypocritical, that your husband - who has no interest in homo-sex - gets to dictate the gender and types of non monogamous situations YOU are "allowed" to explore, while he himself is free to get his own needs met by fully invested, separate romantic relationships with both you and his current girlfriend.
I mean, couldn't you turn around and use the same arguments against Miket and his relationship with Samantha? I'm sure he takes HER out to dinner, lunch, buys her presents - all without her contributing to your household income or workload, right? Now, if you're working in any capacity, technically you are helping to fund his "lifestyle" with Samantha, if you want to look at it that way. And regardless of the validity of this argument, it holds true no matter the gender of the other/outside lover.
One question that may be completely irrelevant, or not, but which has gotten me curious, FunSlut:
If your husband is so insecure about having been cheated on in the past, and his worst fear is having to visualise his beloved wife screwing around with another guy or guys (particularly without him having the modicum of control over these outside relationships that he imagines he has when it's him+you+a girlfriend/other woman he is also involves with)... why choose a user-name such as "FunSlut", when you know he is also a member here? While I'm sure it's just a light-hearted, possibly tongue-in-cheek (so to speak) nickname and doesn't necessarily imply that you sleep around indiscriminately, it's not UNlikely that others may infer a provocative message judging from the pseudonym alone.
Regardless, from what I've gleaned from his posts here, Miket definitely seems to have a somewhat patriarchal, almost "ownership" mentality when it comes to women, and especially you, his wife.
If you read my lengthy first response in this thread, you'll see I have a deal of sympathy for his position, as I've battled with similar issues of jealousy and hypocrisy within my own "V"-verging-on-triad type arrangement.
However, I can also see this from your point of view, as a fellow heteroflexible/bi/bi-curious woman (however you identify, I'm not sure), in that - although you/we may get pleasure from sexual interactions and relationships with women - our orientation and interests tends to skew more toward attraction to men and male bodies, or at least, equally so.
Therefore, it seems unfair, unbalanced and, yes, hypocritical, that your husband - who has no interest in homo-sex - gets to dictate the gender and types of non monogamous situations YOU are "allowed" to explore, while he himself is free to get his own needs met by fully invested, separate romantic relationships with both you and his current girlfriend.
I mean, couldn't you turn around and use the same arguments against Miket and his relationship with Samantha? I'm sure he takes HER out to dinner, lunch, buys her presents - all without her contributing to your household income or workload, right? Now, if you're working in any capacity, technically you are helping to fund his "lifestyle" with Samantha, if you want to look at it that way. And regardless of the validity of this argument, it holds true no matter the gender of the other/outside lover.
One question that may be completely irrelevant, or not, but which has gotten me curious, FunSlut:
If your husband is so insecure about having been cheated on in the past, and his worst fear is having to visualise his beloved wife screwing around with another guy or guys (particularly without him having the modicum of control over these outside relationships that he imagines he has when it's him+you+a girlfriend/other woman he is also involves with)... why choose a user-name such as "FunSlut", when you know he is also a member here? While I'm sure it's just a light-hearted, possibly tongue-in-cheek (so to speak) nickname and doesn't necessarily imply that you sleep around indiscriminately, it's not UNlikely that others may infer a provocative message judging from the pseudonym alone.
Dagferi
Well-known member
So basically since he financially pays for your upkeep he gets a say over your body.... Nice.
Last time I checked my calendar it is 2017 not 1817 or 1917 and we are not our husbands property.
Murf takes just as much care of me financially as Butch does. Actually I take care of myself and contribute to both households both finacially and in other ways. My marriages are partnerships. No one reigns dominion over the other.
I don't know, but I'd go for therapy. Discussing with a trusted therapist can be more specific than a general resource, they can tackle the emotional issues around past cheating too.
InfinitePossibility
New member
I’m interested in the money thing.
Is it the case that your husband looks after you financially?
If so, maybe the way to help him get over his patriarchal thought processes is to stop being financially dependent on him?
I think that while one person is dependent on another for food and shelter it does create a tricky dynamic.
Yes. Pepper Mint has done a lot of work on polyamory and patriarchy. He's recently published a book about polyamory aimed at men.
https://freaksexual.com/2009/11/05/nonmonogamy-for-men-the-big-picture/
powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
I agree with Infinite Possibility. There are exceptions, of course, but I believe that each member of a relationship should be financially independent. I will probably catch a lot of grief for this, but it's something I firmly believe and teach all my children.
You never know what will happen in this life. Everyone needs to have the capability of taking care of themselves. Contributing financially to a relationship is very important and helps to alleviate the possibility of a power imbalance.
You never know what will happen in this life. Everyone needs to have the capability of taking care of themselves. Contributing financially to a relationship is very important and helps to alleviate the possibility of a power imbalance.
He is a great provider and that's one of the things I love about him. However, we both have the same job at the same company at this point.
He currently makes more than I do, but that can change at any time. Sometimes my paycheck is bigger, usually his is.
We have combined finances. He does consider providing to be his job as a man.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
This is "normal" and not the end of the world. Adjusting attitudes doesn't require pretzeling yourselves into matching paychecks. Lots of couples learn to think differently about gender dynamics and it doesn't require an income balance. Sure, patriarchal thinking is totally based on economics of men as the providers, but changing one's thinking doesn't require either of you to alter your income.
There are many, many, many resources for both of you to change your thinking about all of this. I encourage you to focus on your thinking and let your husband do his own research and find a way that speaks to him. This isn't all about him changing and opening to new ideas. One resource that's been especially helpful for me is the work of Amy Jo Goddard.
I just read this entire thread...
After much advice and warning and some bluntness bordering on rudeness, we start coming to the crux of the matter.
Miket's wife joins in the conversation. For some reason, she has chosen to call herself a Slut. A fun Slut. What is that supposed to mean? Define your view on slutdom. Will you fuck anyone? Or do you just really enjoy down and dirty intense kinky sex? You enjoy sex with Mike. You enjoyed sex with your former gf. You're fantasising about enjoying sex with other men now as well. So, you feel slutty?
OK. That's some questions about your nature, FunSlut. Welcome to the board.
Miket, we find out, is or was (probably still is) jealous of your former boyfriends. Only a couple? Only 2 men you had sexual relationships with before hooking "good provider" Miket? And he is so jealous, of people you met before you knew he existed, seeing a mere picture of one of them sent him into a tailspin for days? That smacks of low self esteem to me. It sounds very very sad.
Is he so out of touch with our contemporary move away from patriarchy? Is he into Trump's idea to "Make America Great Again" by taking away women's autonomy, by removing their health care, education and job, so they can be kept dependent, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? (And of course, you're so tired from multiple pregnancies and chasing kids, and you are resentful of his independence, you have little to no desire or energy for sex, and so he gets to have and fuck and wine and dine, a glamorous single gf).
I assume you two are young. Late 20s, early 30s? Why the outdated ideas? Look around, the patriarchy is falling. Women have been working for their rights since the late 19th century. This is 2017. Granted the patriarchy has been in place since about 2000 BCE, but it took about 1500 years after that to squash women's power (using violence and saying it was god's will) and own them, body and soul. To control their sexuality and their fertility and economic independence.
But now, now that you (plural) are dipping your toes in polyamory, you start to realise it's not about sexy MFM threesomes with 2 hot bi babes and one straight guy getting double pussy. The new contemporary polyamory is a woman driven movement. It couldn't exist without feminism. It's about women, as well as men, being able to have lovers of any gender they choose. It's about women's autonomy. We are no longer possessions! We are not owned! We are not slaves!
These are the underlying concepts you must ponder as you work to overcome the One Penis Policy. Broad overarching concepts.
On to specifics: Miket thinks your vagina was tainted by having had other penises in it before you knew he existed. He would have preferred you virgin. He has grudgingly accepted you were a "slut" before you met and married him, having actually had lovers (specifically male lovers with PENISES).
Now, the double standard gets worse. Not only does he resent your former sexual relationships, he himself was actually MARRIED to another woman. Having those shitty patriarchal ideas, it's no wonder to me she cheated on him and divorced him.
Is Miket afraid your hypothetical future male lover will have a bigger cock than he does? A better job that brings in more cash? Better home, better car(s), more money to wine and dine you in the best restaurants and bed you in the finest hotel? Take you on expensive vacations? Buy you expensive gifts?
He isn't "paying for you to fuck other men." You have the same job. Because of the patriachy, you earn less. But you're about as equal as a woman can currently be in our fucked up society. Claim your rights as a free independent person. They are there for the taking. Why did you choose a man who wants to hold you down and limit you like Miket does?
After much advice and warning and some bluntness bordering on rudeness, we start coming to the crux of the matter.
Miket's wife joins in the conversation. For some reason, she has chosen to call herself a Slut. A fun Slut. What is that supposed to mean? Define your view on slutdom. Will you fuck anyone? Or do you just really enjoy down and dirty intense kinky sex? You enjoy sex with Mike. You enjoyed sex with your former gf. You're fantasising about enjoying sex with other men now as well. So, you feel slutty?
OK. That's some questions about your nature, FunSlut. Welcome to the board.
Miket, we find out, is or was (probably still is) jealous of your former boyfriends. Only a couple? Only 2 men you had sexual relationships with before hooking "good provider" Miket? And he is so jealous, of people you met before you knew he existed, seeing a mere picture of one of them sent him into a tailspin for days? That smacks of low self esteem to me. It sounds very very sad.
Is he so out of touch with our contemporary move away from patriarchy? Is he into Trump's idea to "Make America Great Again" by taking away women's autonomy, by removing their health care, education and job, so they can be kept dependent, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? (And of course, you're so tired from multiple pregnancies and chasing kids, and you are resentful of his independence, you have little to no desire or energy for sex, and so he gets to have and fuck and wine and dine, a glamorous single gf).
I assume you two are young. Late 20s, early 30s? Why the outdated ideas? Look around, the patriarchy is falling. Women have been working for their rights since the late 19th century. This is 2017. Granted the patriarchy has been in place since about 2000 BCE, but it took about 1500 years after that to squash women's power (using violence and saying it was god's will) and own them, body and soul. To control their sexuality and their fertility and economic independence.
But now, now that you (plural) are dipping your toes in polyamory, you start to realise it's not about sexy MFM threesomes with 2 hot bi babes and one straight guy getting double pussy. The new contemporary polyamory is a woman driven movement. It couldn't exist without feminism. It's about women, as well as men, being able to have lovers of any gender they choose. It's about women's autonomy. We are no longer possessions! We are not owned! We are not slaves!
These are the underlying concepts you must ponder as you work to overcome the One Penis Policy. Broad overarching concepts.
On to specifics: Miket thinks your vagina was tainted by having had other penises in it before you knew he existed. He would have preferred you virgin. He has grudgingly accepted you were a "slut" before you met and married him, having actually had lovers (specifically male lovers with PENISES).
Now, the double standard gets worse. Not only does he resent your former sexual relationships, he himself was actually MARRIED to another woman. Having those shitty patriarchal ideas, it's no wonder to me she cheated on him and divorced him.
Is Miket afraid your hypothetical future male lover will have a bigger cock than he does? A better job that brings in more cash? Better home, better car(s), more money to wine and dine you in the best restaurants and bed you in the finest hotel? Take you on expensive vacations? Buy you expensive gifts?
He isn't "paying for you to fuck other men." You have the same job. Because of the patriachy, you earn less.
But you're about as equal as a woman can currently be in our fucked up society. Claim your rights as a free independent person. They are there for the taking. Why did you choose a man who wants to hold you down and limit you like Miket does?breathemusic
Active member
If I understand correctly, your husband has no problem having a g/f, even if it's not a shared g/f. If you had your own g/f that he didn't also date, how would this be any different in terms of "you getting to go off and screw other people while he provides" even though you've already mentioned that you make almost as much money and therefore he's not actually the "provider" in that sense anyway?
I think he's confusing a LOT of things with insecurities about another penis being involved. If you had another g/f, you could still be having sex, getting orgasms, hell, even penetration with... whatever. LOL. And he, as a hetero man is still allowed to pursue the type of anatomy that he's into. This all literally seems to be about dicks.
Unless the knowledge that you tend to be more romantically/emotionally into men and so then the thing he feels threatened by is that another man would increase the risk that you would leave him whereas with a woman he doesn't feel that way. Though really, I think many hetero men feel that in general about penis vs vagina. Even with a bi woman who isn't more male-leaning it is common for other dicks to somehow be more threatening when that makes absolutely zero sense.
So I think the insecurity about what makes you dating a man so much worse than dating a woman is what he really needs to look at. Why is that so much more threatening? I mean... the things about being a provider should also be looked at, because unless you have a power exchange dynamic that is consensual, men aren't women's keepers. Even if he DID make all the money, you would probably be keeping up the house, or kids or whatever that is still worth time, which is worth money. Or if you did none of those things whatsoever, it would still be because that is something he consented to by wanting to be the financial provider and still wouldn't really make sense in terms of "I provide so it's not fair that I provide while you get to go have fun" if he's only going to make that argument about another penis and not another vagina when you happen to like both.
I think he's confusing a LOT of things with insecurities about another penis being involved. If you had another g/f, you could still be having sex, getting orgasms, hell, even penetration with... whatever. LOL. And he, as a hetero man is still allowed to pursue the type of anatomy that he's into. This all literally seems to be about dicks.
Unless the knowledge that you tend to be more romantically/emotionally into men and so then the thing he feels threatened by is that another man would increase the risk that you would leave him whereas with a woman he doesn't feel that way. Though really, I think many hetero men feel that in general about penis vs vagina. Even with a bi woman who isn't more male-leaning it is common for other dicks to somehow be more threatening when that makes absolutely zero sense.
So I think the insecurity about what makes you dating a man so much worse than dating a woman is what he really needs to look at. Why is that so much more threatening? I mean... the things about being a provider should also be looked at, because unless you have a power exchange dynamic that is consensual, men aren't women's keepers. Even if he DID make all the money, you would probably be keeping up the house, or kids or whatever that is still worth time, which is worth money. Or if you did none of those things whatsoever, it would still be because that is something he consented to by wanting to be the financial provider and still wouldn't really make sense in terms of "I provide so it's not fair that I provide while you get to go have fun" if he's only going to make that argument about another penis and not another vagina when you happen to like both.
opalescent
Active member
I'm glad you joined the forum FunSlut. Maybe you want to start your own thread about your and Miket's situation? I noticed he has not posted in a while. It may be helpful to have separate threads to discuss your points of view. Sometimes when both parts of a couple post, one or the other may feel like the thread isn't 'theirs' anymore and they stop participating. (Not saying this is what happened - just that it can.)
This is a suggestion - there's no requirement that you do so. Just a thought
This is a suggestion - there's no requirement that you do so. Just a thought
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