I'm glad it helped you some.
Thank you for more info. Again, only you and your wife can figure this out, but maybe you need more food for thought. Maybe you want to talk to a poly counselor about all that is going on to help you get your thoughts in order. Internet people might be able to help with 1 or 2 things, but you have A LOT going on here. YMMV, but you could try:
Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org
She is shy, but she doesn't use that word. She says it's not in her nature to connect the people around her. I asked if it was shyness, and she just repeated that.
I just choose to take people at face value. I'm not a mind reader, so I'm just going to go by what they say. Shy or not shy-- what is the bottom line here?
She doesn't want to connect people around her. Okay. There's going to be some separateness, then. Does that change the deal you initially signed up for? Yes. Are you up for a new deal? You seem to lean towards no. Is that true?
She's the one that wanted us all, ideally, to live together. I mean, V and parallel are more than acceptable for other people. I feel one small reason I said yes to her marriage proposal was because we wholeheartedly agreed to a more kitchen-table dynamic and agreed that V and parallel would not work with the type of people we are and the couple we are.
It sounds like 2 years ago she wanted some kind of KTP/everyone in a poly family thing. If she changed her mind and now she prefers a poly V thing, you could ask her to clarify or confirm: "Did you change your mind from two years ago, and now you want more like a separate poly V thing?"
If she's pussyfooting around with her words, believe her ACTIONS. Make life simpler on you.
I absolutely want her in my life. If it is a V or parallel she wants though, idk how comfortable I am being her spouse.
Then you could sit with that a while and do your soul searching. Become clear with yourself and with her that you don't like that model and would prefer not to be her spouse if that is how you land on that.
I could be wrong, but do you wonder if, since she likes to dangle the idea of also dating you as "bait" to new potentials she's dating now, was this the "bait" she dangled for you when she was dating you, this KTP-utopia thing? Is this part of your unease, all these moving goalposts?
I help my momma take care of my dad during the days. He's had dementia for the last 17 yrs and is probably not gonna be around much longer.
And yes, we divvy up the chores each week depending on our individual schedules.
It is fair to divvy up the chores each week and stick with the plan. You do not have a lot of room in your life for spontaneous "from the sky" stuff. You want to know what your responsibilities are each day because you are dealing with a lot of things -- kid care and eldercare.
Are all these kids your bio kids with her, or some kind of blended family, since you've been married a scant two years? Are there other coparents you have to coordinate things with? That can add to complex schedules.
She and I both wanna know when intimacy increases. We'd like to know about flirting (but that's difficult to define), kissing and sex. She had never been tested til she met me. I made her once she slept with her last bf. I get tested every three months, have since I was 18, because I'm paranoid and have a rare autoimmune disease.
I think you could let go of wanting to hear about the flirting and drill down to the essentials. You have an autoimmune condition you need to manage safely. Safer sex practices and regular testing are going to be priorities then. Before you and she share sex, you could learn to ask, because you want informed continuing consent.
"Since the last time we shared sex, has there been anyone new? Have there been changes in risk profile? What safer sex practices were used? On my side there was..." Then you can have full info and be as up-to-date as can be. Then you can decide to go ahead and share sex with her again, or decide to reduce activities to less risky ones and wait for new labs, or skip sharing sex and wait for new labs.
I can't really say no because any (criticism is the wrong word...) disagreement I have about the decisions she makes is seen as negative and not supportive.
You could still say, "No, thanks," politely, and she can deal with her emotions around that. If just hearing "No, thanks" from you is difficult for her, she can't make unilateral decisions for the couple. You don't have to be up for that.
You need to be able to say "joyful yes," but ALSO exercise your "sacred no." You have to take care of your own wellbeing and not go around walking on eggshells. You don't have to be a jerk to her, but also, don't be a jerk to yourself. Do not pussyfoot around or go over the top with people-pleaser stuff.
I'll be frank. I'm almost out of that stage of life. It was a long drawn out thing, YEARS of kid care and eldercare. I'm GLAD to be down to my last two elders, and the kids grown.
If you deal in dementia eldercare and 5 kids, your plate is already overfull, without any extra spouse shenanigans. You don't need a spouse who is a drain or a drag on you, like another charge, like another child or dementia patient who pitches a fit because they didn't get their way. You may want a spouse who is a helpmate, partner, comfort, lover, someone who dates you, etc., but NOT a drag/drain on you.
You also need regular time to yourself alone to recharge your batteries, time with your friends and family whose wellbeing is NOT your responsibility. You can hang out with people you are NOT doing caregiver stuff for. You might need a dementia-caregiver support group or counselor. It's tough being in the "sandwich," dealing with eldercare with one hand and raising kids with the other. Is trying to poly date on top of all that a realistic endeavor at this time?
What kind of spouse do you have?
- One who helps TAKE AWAY your stress?
- One who doesn't take away, but also doesn't add, like net NEUTRAL?
- Or one who ADDS to your stress?
I'm starting to feel like she uses the possibility of X being with both of so she can get what she wants. I mean, I'm totally fine if X doesn't wanna date me but it weirds me out when someone doesn't want or need to hear directly from their lover's "primary" partner that they give consent.
You could unpack this. If X starts to date your wife, and X doesn't want to meet you for the first ___ months because they want to see if this is even a runner before they start meeting her extended family-- why does that weird you out?
Are you worried that spouse leading people on, telling lies, cheating? Or using polyamory for escapism, like to "run away" from her responsibilities at home?
I just wanna meet them, maybe get their contact info in case of emergencies or scheduling or whatnot. They don't even gotta be my friend, just cordial.
Asking for basic polite is fair.
What emergency? You can contact your wife if something happens to the kids or elders. Do you mean if something happened to wife, you want her date to be able to reach you? If they become a regular, serious partner you can offer them your phone number at that point in time. But for first few dates, if there's an actual emergency, the other emergency people have ways to reach you. It's not like you'd be left in the dark.
Are you serving as your spouse's "secretary?" Even if you both like it when you schedule her car oil changes, or her dental cleanings, or the kids' stuff, it's probably best that she do her own schedule for dates with you and her other partners, and not fob her hinge jobs onto you.
I'm nor asking that I be friends with her parents or her mine. I'm simply asking that when she and X decide to officially date or engage in an ongoing sexual relationship, that I at least be given the opportunity to meet them, preferably in person, but phone is chill.
A more realistic way to frame that might be to tell wife you'd like to eventually meet her regular dating partner X, if she and X are also agreeable. In person, for a 10 minute coffee or 10 minute phone call. But if wife and/or X are NOT up for it, you would like HER to exercise the bare bones minimum for safer sex practices, so you can watch out for your autoimmune condition, if you are also one of her lovers. And maybe you stop being fluid bonded with her and ramp up condoms and whatever else you need to manage your condition.
I'm not so concerned with a triad dynamic right now. I just wanna know how to talk to her about how her current decisions are in conflict with our original understanding and with what she says she wants in the future.
Are you afraid to bring all this up because you are worried she's gonna fly off the handle, where she gets defensive, and all that?
I can't really say no because any (criticism is the wrong word...) disagreement I have about the decisions she makes is seen as negative and not supportive.
I can't tell from internet posts what you deal in. Is it
DARVO-- deny, attack, reverse the victim order? Like, whatever you say, she will flip it around on you? Is this confusion you talk about you being gaslit? You can google "DARVO" for more articles.
If you don't feel safe enough here practicing polyamory with her, you can renegotiate terms or withdraw your consent. Your consent to do things or not belongs to YOU. You get to decide what you are and are not up for and when.
Galagirl
