I'm here to discuss mine and others' poly rels.

[Nowhereman]

Good luck with your Hebrew learning! Coincidentally, I know someone (from graduate school) who was born in Ukraine and moved to Israel with her family as a child, so she's fluent in Russian, Hebrew and English, which is pretty cool, especially since all three language are quite different.

For now, I speak Ukrainian, Russian, and English. But I hope to forget Russian - especially if I learn Hebrew. For reasons, I hope, you could understand.

You'll probably improve quickly if you're forced to speak Hebrew in daily life, but I've heard that it can be difficult in areas with high English prevalence, because locals will just talk to you in English. I imagine most people can speak English in big cities in Israel?

Yes and no. In big cities most fo locals _do_ speak English. But it doesn't mean they'd _prefer_ to speak English. Recently a repatriate from the US, who proposed me to send a CV to his company, asked me:
- Do you speak Hebrew?
- I don't now. But I plan to hire a personal Hebrew teacher if I have an everyday job.
- Oh, It's cool. Because we all speak English on our conferences. But our everyday chats in the office are all in Hebrew.

 

[Eponine]

For now, I speak Ukrainian, Russian, and English. But I hope to forget Russian - especially if I learn Hebrew. For reasons, I hope, you could understand.

Yeah, I can understand. Sorry for being insensitive in my comment.

To be honest, my mom used to teach Russian, so I grew up with a certain fondness of Russian culture (although I can't speak the language) and an overly romanticized imagination of Russia. But as I grew older and became more aware of politics, I realized its government is much uglier than the poetry and music. It's similar to how I feel about China - liking some of the culture, disliking the government. But sometimes I forget about the link to politics when I think I'm only talking about the culture.

I don't follow the news very much, but from what little I've seen, the resilience of Ukrainians is very impressive, and I'm glad to see most of the world is on Ukraine's side.

In big cities most fo locals _do_ speak English. But it doesn't mean they'd _prefer_ to speak English. Recently a repatriate from the US, who proposed me to send a CV to his company, asked me:
- Do you speak Hebrew?
- I don't now. But I plan to hire a personal Hebrew teacher if I have an everyday job.
- Oh, It's cool. Because we all speak English on our conferences. But our everyday chats in the office are all in Hebrew.

That makes sense. Sounds similar to Nordic countries, based on what I heard from friends in Finland and Sweden. They're not fluent in local languages, so working in tech is their only option, but a lot of the casual chats between coworkers are still in Finnish/Swedish.

 

[Nowhereman]

There are tons of fundraisers for Ukraine in the US. And people sing the Ukrainian national anthem at US public events, you see Ukrainian flags hung from homes, etc.

Oh, it's pleasant to know. In Israel, there're also fundraisers for Ukraine and volunteers helping repatriates from Ukraine. Flags are not so common altogether. But in big cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa, seeing the Ukrainian flag is a regular thing. And pro-Ukrainian and anti-russian (anti-war) demonstrations are pretty often there. Unfortunately, anti-Ukrainian events also happen sometimes (but not really often) because there are a lot of russian immigrants here - and part of them still believe russian propaganda.

In Hadera (a smaller city in the middle between Tel Aviv and Haifa), where I live now, there are flags of different countries on roadside posts along a bridge and the next block. When moving from the city center, the first couple of flags is of Ukraine and Poland. The US, the UK, Australia, and many other flags are there too - but not russian.

I am not overly surprised at the progressive attitudes in Israeli cities. Many "Jews" are only that as far as a national or cultural identity, and are not at all conservative or religious. Jews are taught to deeply question their religion.

Exactly. I think we should now separate Jews and Judaic concepts. The first is a nation - the second is a religion. Not all Jews are Judaists now - even here in Israel. A lot of them are non-religious (like me). Some are Christians. Most (at least it feels like this for me) are celebrating all Judaic feasts - but not very religious.

Many no longer even circumcise their male babies (thank the gods).

I can't agree more.

Orthodox Jews do take the Torah and rabbinical edicts seriously, but do not force it on those outside their circles.

Exactly - they do not force. They often propose on the streets - but not aggressively. When I answer "I'm non-religious" (even in English) - they go away from me.

I hope you keep adapting and enjoying your new environment. I am sure you miss your country, but if it were me, I'd be glad to be away from the war zone, the terror and displacement and lack of resources, etc.!

Yes, I am adapting. About my country of birth - I would be on the front line if not for my health issues. With my state of health I don't want to be in Ukraine and use resources - an apartment, a job, food, etc. - which could be needed for other people (volunteers, men who're waiting for mobilization).

 

[Nowhereman]

Yeah, I can understand. Sorry for being insensitive in my comment.

You have nothing to be sorry for. Many people in Israel speak russian - including those of Ukrainian origin. So I accept it (although it doesn't make me happy). Unfortunately, when Ukraine was occupied by Russia, the Ukrainian language was gradually eradicated by the Russian. For instance, in the Ukrainian People's Republic (1917-1921(23)), 90+% schools were Ukrainian - in the SU, this percentage gradually dropped to 45%. Now, after eight years of the Russian-Ukrainian war, it's 98+% (and 1+% includes schools in Moldovian, Hungarian, Crimean-Tatarian, and some other languages - not only Russian). It's mostly the result of reforms made by our previous government and President (Poroshenko). It makes me happy - my country of origin finally starts to become a real Ukraine instead of a Russian colony.

To be honest, my mom used to teach Russian, so I grew up with a certain fondness of Russian culture (although I can't speak the language) and an overly romanticized imagination of Russia. But as I grew older and became more aware of politics, I realized its government is much uglier than the poetry and music. It's similar to how I feel about China - liking some of the culture, disliking the government. But sometimes I forget about the link to politics when I think I'm only talking about the culture.

My whole family, starting from my great grandma, were russian-speaking (russianized). My grandma's six sisters and their mother spoke Ukrainian - although they lived in a city on Donbas (russian propaganda says, "Donbas always was russian).

I don't follow the news very much, but from what little I've seen, the resilience of Ukrainians is very impressive, and I'm glad to see most of the world is on Ukraine's side.

Ukrainians surprised even me - although I was one of those who predicted very early they would never surrender in this war.

That makes sense. Sounds similar to Nordic countries, based on what I heard from friends in Finland and Sweden. They're not fluent in local languages, so working in tech is their only option, but a lot of the casual chats between coworkers are still in Finnish/Swedish.

Yes, it sounds similar. There is one significant difference, though. Hebrew stopped being a conversational language during the IX-XIII centuries. It was only written language (primarily for religious books) since then. It mostly started recovering in the XX century. The process's first and most famous (and respected) activist was Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. He even forbade his wife to speak with their son languages other than Hebrew. So their son became the first native speaker of Hebrew in the New World.

So most Israelis feel deep respect for their (our?) language. Some even assured Israel couldn't form as an independent state if most of the first citizens were speaking Yiddish instead of Hebrew.

 

[Nowhereman]

My whole family, starting from my great grandma, were russian-speaking (russianized). My grandma's six sisters and their mother spoke Ukrainian - although they lived in a city on Donbas (russian propaganda says, "Donbas always was russian).

Now my sister and I mostly speak Ukrainian (sis even started teaching Ukrainian to her native Israeli partner). My brother and our mom still speak russian.

P.S. I think I need to explain: I write "russia" and "russian" words with a lowercase "r" as a sign of disrespect. (Some Ukrainians even sometimes write rUSSIA - to emphasize it even more.)

 

[Nowhereman]

Oh, and about the "great" russian culture. I've completely changed my mind about it during the last ten years. And I had significant reasons for it. I don't see an offtopic section on this forum, so if anybody is interested, I could describe it on this topic.

 

[Evie]

Mod note - you may like to start a blog over in Life Stories and Blogs. Blogs can still be interacted with and their content can meander on and off polyamory.

The Fireplace is also available for off topic threads, but in this case, I would consider Life Stories and Blogs to be the best option.

 

[kdt26417]

I, for one, would be interested in hearing your thoughts about russian culture. Whether on this thread or another thread, I am fine either way.

 

[Eponine]

Unfortunately, when Ukraine was occupied by Russia, the Ukrainian language was gradually eradicated by the Russian. For instance, in the Ukrainian People's Republic (1917-1921(23)), 90+% schools were Ukrainian - in the SU, this percentage gradually dropped to 45%. Now, after eight years of the Russian-Ukrainian war, it's 98+% (and 1+% includes schools in Moldovian, Hungarian, Crimean-Tatarian, and some other languages - not only Russian). It's mostly the result of reforms made by our previous government and President (Poroshenko). It makes me happy - my country of origin finally starts to become a real Ukraine instead of a Russian colony.

That's good to know. Language is such an important part of a nation's culture and identity. It would be a shame if the Ukrainian language were eradicated.

Hebrew stopped being a conversational language during the IX-XIII centuries. It was only written language (primarily for religious books) since then. It mostly started recovering in the XX century. The process's first and most famous (and respected) activist was Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. He even forbade his wife to speak with their son languages other than Hebrew. So their son became the first native speaker of Hebrew in the New World.

This reminds me of a question I got wrong in an online trivia league (I'm a big trivia nerd): "What language, widely cited as the only spoken language ever to be revived from extinction, is now one nation's official language and is spoken by over nine million people worldwide?" I had no idea and guessed Ukrainian at that time. It's interesting to learn about this history of Hebrew.

I was also thinking that Life Stories and Blogs would be a good place for you to talk about your thoughts on russian culture, as well as other poly or non-poly topics. I already learned so much from your posts!

 

[Nowhereman]

For those interested, I've decided to post it in Life Stories and Blogs like Evie proposed.

Russian culture is an instrument of imperialism and colonialism.

I'm Ukrainian. I live in Israel now - it wasn't my choice, but the result of many circumstances, starting from covid-19 and ending the current war in Ukraine. I'll write here about how I stopped consuming the Russian culture - and how it changed my mind. When I was a child and teen, I went to...

polyamory.com

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds good, I will check that out.