In the line of fire

S

sparklepop

New member
Hi guys,

My partner (GF) broke up with her long-term submissive/boyfriend (Garcon) 48 hours ago and things are rough. It's not the first time they've broken up, but it seems like this time it might perhaps be final. She's understandably very upset and I'm trying to be there to support her.

However, we have a problem that keeps cropping up:

When my partner has a fall-out/issue with another partner, she expects me to get involved. This could be: me talking to her other partner(s) and then relaying information back to her; me talking 'sense' into them; me expressing my opinion to their face if I agree with her on her grievances; or she'll sometimes expect me to 'go warrior' on them (i.e. chew them out and show tangible defense of her).

Essentially, if I agree that she's being treated badly, or I agree with any points in a show of empathy and understanding, she then expects me to go to my metamours and give them a piece of my mind. If and when I don't do this, she takes this is a sign of me abandoning her, caring about myself more than I care for her, putting my own needs first, being selfish, avoiding conflict, being two-faced, being inconsiderate, prioritising what I want to do rather that what she needs me to do, etc.

I've been friends with most of my metamours, and I am comfortable with sharing my opinion if we manage to have an organic conversation where it feels appropriate to do so. If this has a positive impact on my partner and metamour, then I'm genuinely happy to help. However, when I do talk to them, I'm often softer and less direct than GF expects, so she takes this to mean that I'm not really committed to helping her.

I don't want to go around fighting my metamours. I don't feel that it's my place to just approach metamours with my unsolicited opinions. I don't feel that their relationship issues are my business, even when I'm in agreement that my partner is being treated badly. So, about a year ago, I started to try to be firmer with my boundary that I don't want to be pushed to talk to GF's partners on her behalf. Unfortunately, because my partner has found me to be able to talk to people in a way that tends to help the situation, she takes it to mean that if I'm not willing to talk to a metamour, I don't care enough to help.

There will also be a ripple effect whenever she is going through a breakup. I'll be feeling extra sensitive because I'll have been giving a lot of support, love, time and care. She'll be feeling extra sensitive because she'll be feeling very vulnerable and raw. The end result is that she's quicker to feel angry and unsupported and I'm quicker to feeling hurt and unappreciated.

Have you ever been in this kind of situation? Am I being an ass and just can't see it? Can any of you relate to what my GF is expressing? Any advice on what I could do here?
 
So many red flags. I haven't been in this situation, but I think it's wrong of her to try to get you involved, especially to try to use you to triangulate her feelings to her exs. I would set up some pretty firm boundaries. Make it as clear as possible that you love her and want to support her, tell HER she's right if you believe that, but refuse to take that to her exs. If she isn't willing to take your statements that you love her but you're not her messenger or errand-person to heart, I think that's a separate issue.

Just because you're together doesn't mean she has any right to dictate your relationships and conversations with other people. The whole situation feels very manipulative to me. It also feels emotionally immature. Why does she need to further validate or feel justified in her decision to break up with someone? They're broken up. It's better for her. That's all it needs to be. Her behavior smacks of needing to make the ex an enemy to feel better and more validated about the decision to break up with them.

In short, you aren't being an ass at all. Your girlfriend is being unreasonable and, frankly, asking you to do things that you recognize aren't right (hence why you're uncomfortable). That's just my opinion.
 
You've written before how your girlfriend will expect you to feel and act the same way she does and takes it personally when you don't have the same feelings or need to act on those feelings she does. This is another instance of that behavior.

I would continue setting the boundaries you've already put into place. Those are good boundaries, even if she assumes inaccurate emotional information from them (i.e. you not wanting to talk to an ex/metamour means you don't care about her). You are not responsible for how she interprets things.

That said, it's ok if she is extra sensitive right now. Breakups suck, even if they have been in process for a while. Perhaps to head off this cycle, ask her what she would make her feel that you love her, support her and are on 'her' side. (Out of curiousity, has she ever remained friends with an ex? As this type of behavior could easily preclude that.) Maybe doing something else that reassures her you are on her side, will reinforce your care and love to her.
 
Whoa, man, that sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic.

If you are friends with your metas, and they ask you for advice and/or if relationship woes between your partner and a meta are directly impacting your friendship with the meta, then talking in those cases, yes absolutely.

But for you to "go warrior" on your metas. That is REALLY bad. And even if you agree with your GF that she's being treated shittily, ganging up on someone over it...at the least... that is really shitty back, at the worst, it's straight-up gas-lighting and/or being abusive and that is far more wrong.

Because let's be honest. We're all (imperfect) people here. And given what you've written about your GF, I don't think I'd always 100% take her PERSPECTIVE to be the absolute TRUTH (those can be two different things. you do know that, right?). Given that you NOT helping her bully/control people (because that's what it is, if say, someone breaks up with her, or takes umbrage at something she says/does and she expects you to "talk sense into them") causes her to doubt YOUR love for her, I'd be really fucking nervous about taking her comments about someone else being shitty to her as the actual truth. Because if her idea of someone "being shitty" to her is actually them trying to maintain good boundaries (which, btw, the two of you do NOT have, from what you've just described in this post), then congrats! you've just helped your girlfriend control or coerce or gaslight someone, all in the guise of being a good boyfriend who helps her out.

Do you really want to be like that?

In short, stop fucking helping her, if "helping" means that you're actually helping her abuse/control/coerce/gaslight someone. She needs to fight her own damn battles. If she and someone she wants to coerce - I mean, have a relationship with (because it's so hard to tell if she actually wants non-coercive relationships, given what you've described) aren't agreeing about something, that's between THEM. Just them. And if they can't agree, then that could just be a sign that they don't work together and shouldn't be IN a relationship.

Either, not your battle. Stay out of it. Start maintaining good boundaries with your GF. If she thinks this is a sign that you don't love her, then she needs to read More Than Two. And also go to therapy and talk out her need to use the people in her life to bully the other people in her life, and why someone not being willing to do that would be a sign to her that they don't love her.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

Have you ever been in this kind of situation? Am I being an ass and just can't see it? Can any of you relate to what my GF is expressing? Any advice on what I could do here?
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I mean this kindly, ok? :eek:

You are not being an ass. You choose to date a person who has weird emotional boundaries.

Essentially, if I agree that she's being treated badly, or I agree with any points in a show of empathy and understanding, she then expects me to go to my metamours and give them a piece of my mind. If and when I don't do this, she takes this is a sign of me abandoning her, caring about myself more than I care for her, putting my own needs first, being selfish, avoiding conflict, being two-faced, being inconsiderate, prioritising what I want to do rather that what she needs me to do, etc.
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She does not like hearing "no." Tantrum when she does not get her way. Verbal abuse so you comply in order to be free of her bullying rather than respecting your answer and exercising self control.

SHORT TERM BREAK UP PROBLEM

At this time, you are prioritizing what YOU need to do (strong boundaries) for yourself to be healthy in through emotional storm. You are not doing what SHE wants you to do (go bully the other guy for her.) Totally reasonable. Every person carries their own bag. You do your stuff. She does hers.

Your GF is being her usual self. Historically in your posts I have noticed she usually has unrealistic or inappropriate expectations of you and her other partners and wigs when she doesn't get her way or the partners don't react/respond like she wants. This latest break up is same old song, different day.

For just the break up part? I suggest you stick to your boundary:

So, about a year ago, I started to try to be firmer with my boundary that I don't want to be pushed to talk to GF's partners on her behalf.
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Frame it so you tell what to do. (Respect my limit.) Not what NOT to do. (Don't push me). I find that matters when talking to emotionally disregulated people. Could say something like

"No, thank you. I am not willing talk to Garcon. Outside my scope. Please respect my limit. (<--- what to do)

I am willing to comfort you, to do active listening, to make you dinner, to air you out at the movies or bookstore. I am willing to do other things that are within my scope to help support you. (<---some choices she can pick if she wants to hear "yes" out of you)

If you need more help than I can give, I could help make a counseling appointment for you. (<--- Light the path to her taking personal responsibility for her stuff. You can point the way, even help a little, but you cannot do it FOR her.) "​

Lather, rinse, repeat as needed.

You may have to dial it down even simpler -- like talking to a kid or an elder -- if she's SO disregulated that big words or long sentences overwhelm her. When someone is in emotionally disregulated they aren't operating from logical brain. They are in the emotional brain. Offer a hug. Like the actual need is "I need to feel safe" but she expresses it like "I need to you go warrior for me!" She thinks going warrior will bring the "safe" back. Maybe a hug will do it better and that could be something you ARE willing to do that IS in your scope.

This is partly a "my stuff - your stuff" situation, IMHO. Her break up with Garcon is her job. Not yours.

LONG TERM PROBLEM

This is also partly being with a patient type person. She's weird with her emotional boundaries. I could guess wrong but seriously... several of your past posts make me think she's got something going on. Anxiety disorder, personality disorder, whatever it is... something.

Enduring her emotional outbursts are part of the "price of admission" to date her, and previously you have accepted it and paid it. If it's still something you are willing to tolerate, then maintain strong boundaries and weather out the latest emotional storm. (short term solution). Then encourage counseling. (long term management.)

She projects her pain/stuff on to you rather than process it herself in appropriate ways. That has to stop so YOU can be well. Otherwise this kind of stuff comes back again and again like a merry-go-round. It becomes draining for you to endure forever with no relief in sight.

I suggest you guys talk about long term management. Maybe you have a new "price of admission" on your end. "You can only date me if you are in therapy trying to get this under management."

If you are at a place where you not longer want to deal in this at all or tolerate it any more at all? You could now out.

Only you can decide where your willingness with this kind of stuff lies. You could do your stuff in that area -- spend some time thinking it out. Reassess.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Thanks so much for the perspective guys, I really appreciate it.

AutumnLeaves said:
I would set up some pretty firm boundaries. Make it as clear as possible that you love her and want to support her ... If she isn't willing to take your statements that you love her but you're not her messenger or errand-person to heart, I think that's a separate issue.
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This is a really helpful way to put it, thank you for this, AL. You raise a very good point that has reset my thought process on this in a very good way.

AutumnLeaves said:
Your girlfriend is ... asking you to do things that you recognize aren't right (hence why you're uncomfortable).
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Something I have always struggled with is feeling like I can literally feel other people's emotions and energies inside myself as if they are my own, and this can really cause conflict and confusion in me. I can understand and feel the other person's point of view so acutely that I often forget to listen to my own instinct and moral compass. This gives me something really useful to work on.

opalescent said:
I would continue setting the boundaries you've already put into place. Those are good boundaries, even if she assumes inaccurate emotional information from them (i.e. you not wanting to talk to an ex/metamour means you don't care about her). You are not responsible for how she interprets things.
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Super helpful, opalescent, thank you. That really helps me to keep perspective.

opalescent said:
That said, it's ok if she is extra sensitive right now. Breakups suck, even if they have been in process for a while. Perhaps to head off this cycle, ask her what she would make her feel that you love her, support her and are on 'her' side. (Out of curiousity, has she ever remained friends with an ex? As this type of behavior could easily preclude that.) Maybe doing something else that reassures her you are on her side, will reinforce your care and love to her.
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Thank you for not slamming her, as it's not what I'm here to do.

She apologised to me tonight about it and told me that her upset stemmed from me saying I'd talk to him (I don't remember saying this, and am pretty certain I didn't) and then didn't. She said that it left her feeling like nobody cared about her. She apologised for reacting so strongly. Based on what she's said and the clear responses I've gotten here, I'm going to ask her to think about the possibility that when she wants me to do something, she genuinely believes me to have consented even if I haven't.

As for her remaining friends with exes, there are a mixture. When I first met her, she took the approach of "If someone hurts me, they are removed from my life". She's been working really hard over the past year or so to rewire some of her approaches and try to be more gentle and forgiving. She genuinely wants to change her approach to relationships, but she's in the very earliest stages of therapy at the minute.

This is really helpful for me, because it highlights to me very clearly where I need to work on things on my end to keep myself in a healthy place.
 
LizziE said:
Whoa, man, that sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic.
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I find this situation unhealthy, yes.

LizziE said:
Because let's be honest. We're all (imperfect) people here.
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I completely agree.

LizziE said:
I don't think I'd always 100% take her PERSPECTIVE to be the absolute TRUTH (those can be two different things. you do know that, right?).
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Haha, yes, I really do! :)

LizziE said:
good boundaries (which, btw, the two of you do NOT have, from what you've just described in this post)
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We both have definite issues with boundaries. I've been consciously aware of mine for about a year and am still trying hard to work on them. It's the main reason I posted this thread, to be honest.

Do you have any suggestions on resources for boundary work, by any chance?

LizziE said:
And also go to therapy and talk out her need to use the people in her life to bully the other people in her life, and why someone not being willing to do that would be a sign to her that they don't love her.
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She started seeing a therapist recently and is working with him on her relationship with control. She's very focused on growth and change, and she really wants to let go of control. I clearly have some work to do on enabling. I would like to do a joint session with her therapist to talk about this particular 'confronting metamours' issue, so I will suggest that to her. Thank you!
 
I'm not here to slam your girlfriend, but I have some pretty recent experience with someone with narcissistic tendencies (my father) and now with you saying that you agreed to things you don't remember agreeing to... honestly, she sounds a lot like my dad. Needing to be validated, in the right, outrageously supported, changing situations and promises to fit their needs, etc, all a veneer on top of serious insecurity and self-image issues.

The middle of a break-up probably isn't the best time to bring it up, but you could maybe look at an online narcissism checklist? If a lot of her behaviors match, counseling IS available and it DOES seem to be helping my father, at least with self-image and empathy.
 
She started seeing a therapist recently and is working with him on her relationship with control. She's very focused on growth and change, and she really wants to let go of control. I clearly have some work to do on enabling. I would like to do a joint session with her therapist to talk about this particular 'confronting metamours' issue, so I will suggest that to her.
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I am glad to read this. I think counseling for both of you could be helpful to get this dynamic on a healthier track.

Galagirl
 
If a lover of mine asked or expected me to do what you are describing here, in all honesty, I would look at them like they'd lost their mind and say, "What are we - in the sixth grade?" and that would be the end of that discussion, for sure. Her expectations are certainly not appropriate for, nor conducive to any kind of adult relationship.
 
Hi sparklepop,

Re (from OP):
"My partner has found me to be able to talk to people in a way that tends to help the situation ..."
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When you talk to those people, those metamours, do *you* think it tends to help?

In general I'm in agreement with the others that your partner -- not you -- is in charge of her own relationships.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
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