I came across the idea recently that not being able to ask for what you need is a trauma symptom.
This put a lot into perspective about a relationship I am processing.
Seems to me it has 3 forms- and I think while everybody does everything, you can skew to one easily, and the three of us skewed each way.
First, is the obvious- you know what you need, but actually asking is super scary and you often don’t and do without.
Second, you can’t ask for what you need because you don’t even know what you need.
Third, you know what you need, but asking is too risky because you might not get, so you take.
My particular configuration— I was “know needs but asking scary”; the original couple had one taker, one unaware.
I was attracted to Taker and takers in general because I admired that they actually got their needs met. And they were a really good help in learning to actually ask. I assume there was some benefit to them and it seemed to me they grew this way too— learning to accept some of the uncertainty of not being able to just take. But somehow in this process we lost out connection with eacthother, and became incompatible and broke up. Our last conflict was me establishing, “no, you can’t just take” and Taker losing it because that was way too scary— and I wasn’t, in retrospect, providing support, just establishing “you can’ t take.”
That left me with Unaware as a partner with Taker (who was by this point less so, but still resorted to that under stress) as a meta.
Taker and Unaware were a good and obvious fit in terms of functionality. When Unaware broke down and couldn’t access needs, Taker jumped in and figured out what was likely the best path and said, “we’ll do this.” And with Unaware not know needs, it was easy for Taker to have what they want most of the time without conflict.
As a v, though, I hated when Taker took, and Unaware just gave in, when my needs - which were so hard for me to ask for in the first place— were on the table.
It somehow felt extremely humiliating and retraumatizing.
And without dating Taker, I was out of the loop for providing support for “your needs will still be met if you don’t take.”, so my ability to change the dynamic was limited. (Not that I might have been up for that task)
Yet- my presence brought that conflict up - that it’s better for a group when people embrace uncertainty than take.
What we really needed is for all three of us to be comfortable accessing needs, doing the work of asking, and doing the work of having uncertainty about would this need be met with the others’ help if plentiful space was created for their needs and desires and wants and energy to give.
Thinking about this dynamic in subsequent relationships— the last bit— “doing the work of having uncertainty about will our needs be met if there is the uncertainty of room for the impact on the other person to take up full space— is often the problem with dating an established couple, especially one who is opening up. So many rules, so much taking. So little actual three way discussions with all needs on the table, or two way discussion that is left unresolved because it’s time to bring the third person into the discussion to let her speak as to the impact this would have on her.
I can see that last situation being as romantic and sexy as hell for the third person- “x and I were discussing something, but we realized it might have an impact on you and that we should get your thoughts. Would you let us know if you are willing to give them and if so, when would be a good time”
Anyone ever have a situation like that offered to them? (how did it feel?). Or is this a completely unrealistic fantasy?
This put a lot into perspective about a relationship I am processing.
Seems to me it has 3 forms- and I think while everybody does everything, you can skew to one easily, and the three of us skewed each way.
First, is the obvious- you know what you need, but actually asking is super scary and you often don’t and do without.
Second, you can’t ask for what you need because you don’t even know what you need.
Third, you know what you need, but asking is too risky because you might not get, so you take.
My particular configuration— I was “know needs but asking scary”; the original couple had one taker, one unaware.
I was attracted to Taker and takers in general because I admired that they actually got their needs met. And they were a really good help in learning to actually ask. I assume there was some benefit to them and it seemed to me they grew this way too— learning to accept some of the uncertainty of not being able to just take. But somehow in this process we lost out connection with eacthother, and became incompatible and broke up. Our last conflict was me establishing, “no, you can’t just take” and Taker losing it because that was way too scary— and I wasn’t, in retrospect, providing support, just establishing “you can’ t take.”
That left me with Unaware as a partner with Taker (who was by this point less so, but still resorted to that under stress) as a meta.
Taker and Unaware were a good and obvious fit in terms of functionality. When Unaware broke down and couldn’t access needs, Taker jumped in and figured out what was likely the best path and said, “we’ll do this.” And with Unaware not know needs, it was easy for Taker to have what they want most of the time without conflict.
As a v, though, I hated when Taker took, and Unaware just gave in, when my needs - which were so hard for me to ask for in the first place— were on the table.
It somehow felt extremely humiliating and retraumatizing.
And without dating Taker, I was out of the loop for providing support for “your needs will still be met if you don’t take.”, so my ability to change the dynamic was limited. (Not that I might have been up for that task)
Yet- my presence brought that conflict up - that it’s better for a group when people embrace uncertainty than take.
What we really needed is for all three of us to be comfortable accessing needs, doing the work of asking, and doing the work of having uncertainty about would this need be met with the others’ help if plentiful space was created for their needs and desires and wants and energy to give.
Thinking about this dynamic in subsequent relationships— the last bit— “doing the work of having uncertainty about will our needs be met if there is the uncertainty of room for the impact on the other person to take up full space— is often the problem with dating an established couple, especially one who is opening up. So many rules, so much taking. So little actual three way discussions with all needs on the table, or two way discussion that is left unresolved because it’s time to bring the third person into the discussion to let her speak as to the impact this would have on her.
I can see that last situation being as romantic and sexy as hell for the third person- “x and I were discussing something, but we realized it might have an impact on you and that we should get your thoughts. Would you let us know if you are willing to give them and if so, when would be a good time”
Anyone ever have a situation like that offered to them? (how did it feel?). Or is this a completely unrealistic fantasy?
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