Is my husband really poly?

R

Raccoon

New member
I am very new to any of this so bear with me!

My world is confusing right now. So many things I thought would be, that I was so sure of are unclear now. I was once that girl who knew that he only loved me and I was sure of the same for my love to him. My thoughts on that have stayed the same but his have changed. Why? That is what I ask myself and have no answer to. I can understand that I may not be able to provide everything emotional to him, but the physical and sexual? Why does he need to have that with another woman at the same time getting his emotional needs met from her as well? It all feels like a betrayal. We have opened ourselves up sexually with others together as swingers. It is something that we do together and something that we agreed upon together. I worry that he feels the only way he can have an emotional connection with a woman means that he also has to be in love with her and have the physical and sexual connection as well. Why wasn’t a meaningful friendship enough for him? I felt that this friendship was born out of two people feeling lonely. They both were at home all day while their spouses were at work. They let their thoughts turn to loneliness. I am afraid that he doesn’t know how to cope with being on his own throughout the day, which he felt like he needed her to get through the day because she was available and would listen. I am so worried that he hasn’t taken the time to work on himself and figure himself out. I feel that she has been a crutch for him. They both told me that this was just a friendship and that turned in to a lie. He claims that he is poly now. I am concerned that he only feels that way because he also wants a relationship with her. At one point he told me that if he can’t try this with her he doesn’t really want it. Does that mean that he is truly poly then? I want him to truly take the time to discover if that’s what he really wants independent of her. I would like to take the time to consider exploring the possibility of him finding out if he is poly or not. This relationship doesn’t seem like the best way to foster that. I also need time to process this idea. An idea that goes against what my brain has thought for over 37 years now. That is a lot of reprogramming that needs to happen. I need to explore this from a complete place of trust. They had both lied to me along the way in the development of their relationship. They have tried to justify these actions with fear, that they were afraid to share the truth. I don’t accept this justification; it just felt like lies and betrayal to me. I would like him to set this relationship aside so we can begin this journey off to a good start. If he truly believes that he is poly or thinks that he might be; I would like the opportunity for us both to explore that from an open and honest place. I want it to start for us with trust, honesty, and acceptance. Is that unreasonable for me to want or ask?
 
I am going to take the liberty of putting in some paragraph breaks because it is hard for me to read in one blob. Then I'll try to respond and perhaps others will too.

Galagirl

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I am very new to any of this so bear with me!

My world is confusing right now. So many things I thought would be, that I was so sure of are unclear now.

I was once that girl who knew that he only loved me and I was sure of the same for my love to him. My thoughts on that have stayed the same but his have changed. Why? That is what I ask myself and have no answer to.

I can understand that I may not be able to provide everything emotional to him, but the physical and sexual? Why does he need to have that with another woman at the same time getting his emotional needs met from her as well? It all feels like a betrayal.

We have opened ourselves up sexually with others together as swingers. It is something that we do together and something that we agreed upon together.

I worry that he feels the only way he can have an emotional connection with a woman means that he also has to be in love with her and have the physical and sexual connection as well. Why wasn’t a meaningful friendship enough for him?

I felt that this friendship was born out of two people feeling lonely. They both were at home all day while their spouses were at work. They let their thoughts turn to loneliness. I am afraid that he doesn’t know how to cope with being on his own throughout the day, which he felt like he needed her to get through the day because she was available and would listen. I am so worried that he hasn’t taken the time to work on himself and figure himself out. I feel that she has been a crutch for him.

They both told me that this was just a friendship and that turned in to a lie.

He claims that he is poly now.

I am concerned that he only feels that way because he also wants a relationship with her. At one point he told me that if he can’t try this with her he doesn’t really want it. Does that mean that he is truly poly then?

I want him to truly take the time to discover if that’s what he really wants independent of her. I would like to take the time to consider exploring the possibility of him finding out if he is poly or not.
This relationship doesn’t seem like the best way to foster that.

I also need time to process this idea. An idea that goes against what my brain has thought for over 37 years now. That is a lot of reprogramming that needs to happen. I need to explore this from a complete place of trust.

They had both lied to me along the way in the development of their relationship. They have tried to justify these actions with fear, that they were afraid to share the truth.

I don’t accept this justification; it just felt like lies and betrayal to me.

I would like him to set this relationship aside so we can begin this journey off to a good start. If he truly believes that he is poly or thinks that he might be; I would like the opportunity for us both to explore that from an open and honest place.

I want it to start for us with trust, honesty, and acceptance.

Is that unreasonable for me to want or ask?
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I could be wrong because I don't know what your actual agreements are. But to me it sounds like he started a cheating affair with a woman. And they told you it was "just friends" but it wasn't. He broke agreements. Is that it?

If so? Then I can see why you feel betrayed. You were lied to and agreements were broken. Most people would be upset by that.

Now it sounds like he wants to paint it all over with the poly brush like that somehow makes it all ok. When it probably doesn't to you.

Poly isn't a magic wand. People can ALSO cheat on their poly agreements. I think what makes a person trustworthy is their character and their ability to hold up the agreements they make. NOT the shape of the relationship model they happen to be in.

I would like him to set this relationship aside so we can begin this journey off to a good start. If he truly believes that he is poly or thinks that he might be; I would like the opportunity for us both to explore that from an open and honest place.

I want it to start for us with trust, honesty, and acceptance.

Is that unreasonable for me to want or ask?
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It's fair to ask. You cannot be a mind reader. You kinda have to ask if you want to know something. He is free to say "ok, I will do that. He is free to say "No. I'm not gonna break up with her." Be prepared for whatever the answer is.

I think it's pretty generous of you to still be willing to consider poly if he's actually poly.

A lot of people would simply go "Nope. Not gonna try to poly with you. Cheating? I'm already done. I don't want to start anything NEW with you. Why? So you can poly cheat too?"

It isn't impossible, but it pretty rare for a cheating affair to become poly over time with ALL the people in it. The former cheater, the former cheating affair partner, and the former person cheated on. That takes a LOT of work, a willingness to come clean and apologize, each one owning their share in the situation making, and laying the cheating start to rest. For real. Not dragging it up again, gunny sacking, or other weird.

Maybe this helps you some.

https://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

I'm sorry this happened though. I can only imagine how disappointed you are with both of them. Cheating on agreements is not ok.

To me it would have been better had he just been honest. Like "Hey... I'm struggling with some new feelings. Things are changing for me. I cannot keep these agreements any more. I need to end them or renegotiate." That might have been a bummer to learn, but it is at least trying to courteous and honest.

Rather than just up and cheat on agreements and when found out be all "I was too scared to tell the truth." I don't know what that's trying to be. It isn't honest and forthright behavior to me. :(

Galagirl
 
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It sounds to me like you were swingers so your husband has actively seen that he can be physically intimate with someone without losing interest or desire for you. Then later, he developed a friendship with a woman and has developed feelings that exceed platonic friendship and he wants to add physical and romantic intimacy to this relationship. You feel that this is a betrayal as you thought this was a static friendship rather than a fluid relationship. Especially as they weren't always forthcoming about their feelings and desires and perhaps their intentions too.

The chance of this scenario happening increases drastically if there is some artifical limit on feelings within an open/non monogamous relationship. People who generally do not desire a certain level or type of intimacy outside their relationship do not need rules or agreements to stay within those boundaries. You can't legislate feelings.

You can propose no sex with others but you can't realistically propose a rule that prohibits the desire for sex with others.

The other thing I'd advise against it trying to minimize their feelings for each other by claiming that loneliness is the motivator. That just comes off against a dismissive and will likely prompt them to want to prove their feelings against are genuine.

I can't call the development of feelings that exceed the agreements made in a relationship "cheating". I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of an "emotional affair". I think a friend you wish was a romantic partner is still a friend. Even if you discuss having romantic feelings for each other. I think friends can share romance along with sex. What turns a friend into a partner is an agreement to adopt those labels by the people involved.
 
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Greetings Raccoon,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like polyamory is an idea that makes you uncomfortable, that goes against your grain and against a lifetime of conditioning. Yet, you are willing to try poly with your husband, and all you ask is that he not try it with the woman he cheated with. I think you are being quite generous about the whole thing, it is he who is in the wrong here. Maybe if he would have been honest with you from the start that would have been different, although, from your description it sounds like this relationship with this particular woman is unhealthy, like he has been using her as a crutch. So I don't blame you for wanting him to forgo that particular relationship. Perhaps he is just caught up in NRE and that is why he is reluctant to forgo it. I have some sympathy for him, but not enough to take his side. You have every right to stand up for yourself in these matters. Clearly you do not consent to his relationship with this other woman, and without your consent, it cannot be poly.

At least that's my opinion.
Sincerely,
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I don't think it is reasonable to ask him to discard a person just to prove to you he is poly. This isn't swinging where partners mean nothing.

It would be more reasonable to ask that they hold off for the time being, while you work out whether or not you are up for this.
 
Where does it say he cheated? They used to swing. He had a friendship with a woman. He started to want more than a friendship and to add sex to the relationship. From what the OP says, she feels betrayed by the fact he feels like having more with this woman because his feelings for her have intensified and become romantic/sexual. Feeling something isn't cheating. You can't prohibit feelings.

His only action aligned with cheating is not disclosing his feelings in a timely fashion. If I felt I would be vilified for my feelings, I'd also hide them.
 
Part 1

Thank you for all of your responses. Just know that I am not here for anyone to attack me or my husband. I am here to get advice and perspective from others who are experienced and familiar to poly. I am not here to make anyone feel bad for whatever lifestyle choices they make. Please keep that in mind when you choose to respond to my comments. Thank you.

Bare with me, this could be long. I just want anyone responding to do so well informed. Let me give you more information about my husband and I. I will also go in to details with the events that took place with him and this other woman. I will call him Dave and her Betty. My husband and I have been married for over 18 years and we have three kids together. This past year has been one hell of a roller coaster for us. I'm sure we haven't made all of the best decisions along the way but we are human.

A few years, maybe 4+, ago we began talking/fantasizing about swinging. It was a lot of fun, it just seemed like extra. We have always been very sexual and active in the bedroom so considering that wasn't because we were lacking in that department. We had some hangups on actually trying it for various reasons, probably religion being the primary, but we were hesitant. Well we eventually had a MFM threesome with one of our good friends and it was great! It was a lot of fun and we knew we wanted to do it again. That started probably 3 years ago. We were still afraid to pull the trigger and seek out others at this point.

Then at the end of 2017 my husband decided to go back to a job that he didn't like but at a different location which made us both think he would have a better experience. Oh how we were wrong! So this job started to cause strain on both of us. He worked nights while I worked days and we had different days off. I was hard on us, we both became depressed. Unfortunately we were both too stupid enough to realize it!

He sought solace online while I suffered in silence. We both weren't be honest with each other and ourselves about our feelings. Those were mistakes we both made. He began to develop a relationship with a woman online which I was unaware of. It ultimately led to him going out of state to meet her and have an affair. I thought he was going out of state for another reason. He felt that he had been struggling with things, mostly religion, so he needed to go away to reflect on his thoughts on his own. I was very supportive because I thought that it was great that he was wanting to be so independent. Anyway, that wasn't the case. That was the only time he met her in person.

After he had come back he kept pushing for me to go on a trip with my sister. I liked the idea, but I wasn't set on the exact details. He kept pushing for it and on a very specific weekend. It just kept striking me as odd. Well, this is when I discovered an affair was going on. She was planning on coming in to town while I'd be gone with my sister. My gut was telling me something was off and I'm glad I listened. So this all came out and her coming to visit him never happened.

When I found out the truth I was blind-sided. I felt like such a fool. It was awful. A strange thing happen, we both learned from this. My husband realized that he wasn't really in love with her and was devastated by what he had done. I felt that so so much trust had been broken. We did begin to find our way back to each other. We began to be more open and honest with each other about everything and it was liberating! I felt closer to him than ever before. We both discovered that we no longer believed in our religion and wanted to smack each other for not being more honest about that. We both had been going through the motions with religion because we had thought that's what the other wanted or needed. Again, communication!! He also shared with me that he was bisexual which I was completely okay with. I'm glad that he was able to be honest with himself and me about that. We both had felt more free than ever! I was still working on regaining trust in him and all of this honesty was really helping. He was so afraid to tell me so many things and I have always been so accepting and loving each time that he does.

This is when we reopened the possibility of swinging. We made a profile on a swinger site and just thought we would see what happens. Things happened unexpectedly fast! Thank was okay though, just unexpected, but great. We met some really great people. The first couple that we did anything with are people we still meet up with. We also met another great couple. As it turned out they were looking for more of an exclusive poly relationship. Dave and I had already some very basic established rules with swinging but this is when we realized that we both hadn't wanted a poly relationship. These were our pre-established rules; no separate rooms, no one one relationships or dating, and condoms were a must. We also preferred any chatting to be in a group setting for the most part but hadn't explicitly ruled that out.

Then we met Betty and her husband, we'll call him Jim. We hit it off with these two, and had plenty in common. So we decided to go on a date with them. Neither of them had a full swap at this point and they were still very new to the lifestyle. Our first interaction with them was a soft swap. They decided they enjoyed the experience and found more couples. They met some people and transitioned to full swap. The next encounter with them involved a full swap, it was okay. It wasn't my best but not my worst experience either. We then had more dates. Betty and Jim initially said they had the same basic rules as us. One of the first things they stated was that they wanted all conversations as a group and we respected that.

After just a couple of dates I noticed that Dave started giving Betty a lot more attention than me. That started to bother me so I let Dave know how I felt. He said that he would try to be more aware of my feelings and more respectful. This continued to happen and I became more and more uncomfortable. He kept reassuring me that they just wanted to be friends. I was trying to let him know that a lot of his actions might lead her to believe otherwise. He agreed that I was right and said he would put some things to a stop. I found out that they were having solo conversations often while I was at work. Jim and I both had felt that we were being left out a lot during our interactions with them.

When we were at their house one time we all sat down and had a conversation. We all agreed that we would keep our conversations to the group. We all agreed to that. It turns out Dave and Betty couldn't keep their word, but I didn't know this right away.

Let me step back just a bit. Dave had seemed the most happy I had seen him in a long time before we met Betty and Jim. He truly seemed at peace and happy. He has battled depression, anxiety, PTSD, and sexual abuse as a child. These things had affected him throughout his life, things that he shoud have gotten help for. All of these things started stirring up more after we met them. It got so bad after the two of us had a fight one day that he tried to kill himself.

It was so bad. I literally had to sit on him to prevent him from doing it. He had this look of determination on his face that I had never seen before. I didn't feel that I would be able to stop him on my own so I had the police called. They diffused the situation and he was admitted to an involuntary psych hold. It was awful, I felt so bad for him. I was worried that he'd never be able to forgive me but I didn't know what else to do in that moment. I decided to call Betty that night to tell her what was going on. I thought we were in a place of trust and I thought that both her and Dave would be glad that I called her. It wasn't until after he returned home that I realized I had been lied to.

When I first went to pick him up from the psych hold the next day, yes he was only there overnight, he looked like he hated me. He was very angry at first but came around and realized I did what needed to be done. We talked a lot over the next days and this is when I discovered that him and Betty had grown to have more than a friendship and that they had still be talking with out mine or Jim's knowledge. This upset me and I wish I had never called her that night.

Dave is now in therapy and not working. He is dealing with a lot of issues from his past and his psychologist doesn't want him working so she recommended short term disability. Unfortunately he was denied that through insurance so we only have my income at the moment. There is that financial strain on us as well. I just want him to figure things out and take care of himself. He feels that he still needs to talk to Betty just to get through the day. He talked with his therapist and he said she agreed that he should talk with her. I'm not sure if I agree with that but that doesn't matter. He says he told his therapist everything about Betty. It's hard to know what all the details were and if my side was fairly represented. This is the dilemma that we are currently in.

Apparently this post is too long so I will continue it in another
 
Part 2

Here is the continuation.

I feel that there are some red flags about her. Dave and Betty had discussed the possibility of no condoms but Jim and I were not comfortable with that. I also recently discovered that Betty, who doesn't have children with Jim because they decided not to and he got a vasectomy,she has wanted children all along. I know that she has told Dave about that but I don't know if Jim knows. Dave and Betty are both very capable of having children. Dave has not had a vasectomy and she only takes birth control. Also Betty expressed that she was jealous when she heard us talk about other women Dave had been with. She said she couldn't even stand hearing that name of the other woman we talked about. Jim has said that he has comes to terms with the fact that Betty and Dave want more than friendship. I just haven't. Does Betty really seem like a healthy relationship for Dave?

So, that's where I'm at. Sorry for the length of this post but I wanted you all to be more informed. I'm sure there are some details I may have forgotten that I could probably add so just bare with me. Thank you for listening.
 
I posted a part 1 to my part 2 and don't see it! I hope it pops up or 2 will be a little confusing. It was long too.
 
I accidentally left this out of the beginning of part 2! Sorry for the confusion all!

Dave has expressed that he loves me more than anyone and always will. He says that there is no way that he will ever leave me. He has also stated that he will give me all the time I need to work through my feelings in regards to poly. I love him, I love being with him, we have the best times together. I feel so much pressure right now for him to be able to talk with her and foster their relationship. I don't feel ready right now for him to have that type of relationship let alone with her. I wanted him to take the time to figure himself out, but why does he need her in the mix to do that. It seems so conflicting right now. He says that he won't pursue anything unless I am comfortable. It's hard to take the time to feel comfortable when I feel so much pressure. I just don't trust her.
 
Thank you for more info. Not attacking either you or your husband. I mean all this kindly ok? :eek:

You seem to have a LOT of complex layers going on. Have you considered counseling for yourself? I strongly encourage you in that direction.

Dave has expressed that he loves me more than anyone and always will. He says that there is no way that he will ever leave me.
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While I appreciate the current feelings behind the words? It IS possible for him to fall out of love. It IS possible to leave. You could fall out of love. You could leave. I sure hope not, but in the land of possibilities, it could happen.

So if him talking in "absolutes" like that feels like adding even MORE pressure to you? Like maybe he secretly wants you to promise absolutes that you cannot promise at this time? You could ask him to say "I love you" and leave it at that.

Or say nothing to him right now because it sounds like he's a patient. And instead remind yourself that if things get to be TOO MUCH, you can decide to stop participating in swinging for a time or whatever else. You can decide to take a little time out and take a rest. Take some of the pressure off yourself. YKWIM?

He has also stated that he will give me all the time I need to work through my feelings in regards to poly. I love him, I love being with him, we have the best times together.
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Ok. Could say "Thank you." And leave it there.

Does he say more? Like his expectation is that you WILL decide to say yes to poly if he gives you enough time? I could see where that is pressure too.

I cannot answer this:

but why does he need her in the mix to do that. It seems so conflicting right now.
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I guess nobody knows but him why he's gotten so attached to Betty so fast that both of them were breaking agreements. I mean, they could have just not made the agreement in the first place, or when realizing they don't want to stick to the talking in groups thing? Update you and Jim that they were no longer going to uphold it. Be a little more forthright and up front about it. But it didn't pan that way so no point in picking at it. That keeps it in the stuck. Rather than trying to find solutions.

At this point in time? You sound like you need LESS on your plate, not MORE. So if he tries to bring you Betty things, you could hold your personal boundary:

"I'm not ready for that. I have to do my own healing. You said you would give me time and space. Please give it. In the meanwhile, I think it best you sort out your Betty things with your therapist."

And he could. He could figure all his Betty problems out with his therapist.

He says that he won't pursue anything unless I am comfortable.
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Like once? Say "Thank you."

Like over and over to where you feel pressure because the message is "hurry up and get comfortable!" Could say "You bringing it up over and over makes me uncomfortable. Please stop."

Can he see how hard this is for you? Esp if there was another cheating affair somewhere in end of 2017 or early 2018?

And in recent time he said he was only going to talk in groups with Betty and then he didn't follow thru?

And now with the suicide attempt that just happened... you probably worry about that too.

It's a LOT to deal with one right after the other!

You need time to heal too. It's been a doozy of an experience.

It's hard to take the time to feel comfortable when I feel so much pressure. I just don't trust her.
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Then be honest. At this time your are NOT comfortable. You don't trust her. And put the ball back in his court. You don't want the pressure of being some sort of "gatekeeper" on when he can talk to Betty or not.

  • He can either choose to work on himself without her in the picture.
  • Or choose to work on himself with her still in the picture.
  • The choice belongs to him, not you.

I could be wrong, but right now it's almost like he's making it all be on you whether or not his relationship with Betty continues. But you aren't even the one wanting to poly date her so WHY is this your gatekeeper job? It just sounds like it adds to the pressure.

You already are upholding the household by yourself on the finances while your husband is currently in healing from a recent suicide attempt. That's PLENTY on your plate already.

I'll be honest -- I don't think that right after a hospitalization for suicide is the best time or best way to start doing poly. I think the priority could be his getting WELL. But maybe he's not able to see that yet because he is unwell. So... leave it to the therapist.

I think you might have to let (him + Betty) issues belong to him and he can have his therapist to help him work all that out.

What you could do for YOU is not see either Jim nor Betty and take a break from them all.

And tell your spouse you have your OWN healing to do after this whole experience so for now, talk to the therapist about Betty things and not you. You need a little break.

It sounds like it's been really tough on you. :(

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, thank you so much! Everything you said was very insightful. It helps me even more knowing that it comes from someone that is experienced in the poly lifestyle. Thank you.
 
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