Is there evidence to rebut this monogamous argument?

[GalaGirl]

It's hard to change someone's beliefs and feelings by directly arguing with those, but it is not unrealistic to change them by addressing the assumptions from which those beliefs and feelings derive.

Does she want her core beliefs changed? Has she asked you to help her change her mind about her poly dating?

Does not sound like it to me. She had a visceral and negative emotional response to the idea. You asked her to explain what turns her off so much. Which she attempted.

The rest sounds to me like you trying to gather data to help you talk her out of her preferences/feelings/beliefs/prove her "wrong" so you get what you want. Which you admit is not kind.

My preference would be to renegotiate the contract to produce a win-win. But my obligation is to honor the existing contract if she so insists (and continues to honor it).

I think if at this point you are resigning yourself to continuing in a marriage your heart is not in at least till the kids are grown? Because you both believe "you owe it to her" right now and it is not till then that the "debt becomes more neutral?"

Then you could align yourself to that choice and let this poly stuff go.

• Stop seeking to change her mind for her.
• Stop trying to sell her on an idea she's not up for.
• Stop being unkind poking her with it.

If you struggle yourself with internal conflict, see a counselor to support you along the way. Someone outside the system.

If over time your internal struggle makes you no longer able to hold up your side of that deal like intended? Break up. Let the chips fall where they may. Sometimes the most loving thing to do is to stop struggling and let something go.

I honestly cannot think of anything else to suggest.

Galagirl

 

[Lysander]

You are right.

Obviously there is some allowable period during which a member of a relationship can legitimately lobby for something initially rejected by the other. At some point it goes from discussing to lobbying to pestering to harrassing. And I think I admitted along the way that this subject in particular threatens a core sense of security I'm supposed to be providing. So yes there's a tight limit to how many "shots" I can take on this before it becomes abusive.

Of course, what she wants is her ideal husband. What she accepts (at present) is a real person (me) who does not measure up to the ideal in every respect. So, like most couples, we muddle through. Maybe we manage to make some good compromises, and maybe we resign and accept some things. Maybe we could be happier with each other, or maybe we would be happier in some other situation we don't get to experience. I have more of a "fixer" mentality, so I try wherever possible to optimize things. But yes, I'm under no illusions that I can transform my wife into my ideal spouse!

 

[kdt26417]

I'm surprised to hear your wife already read Sex at Dawn. She must not have paid a lot of attention to what she read, or else she dismissed the entire book point by point. I still hope you'll read it (even if at a slow pace) and I'm curious to hear what your reaction to it is.

No matter what you decide to do as far as your agreements with your wife are concerned, you can still continue to learn about poly, and participate in this forum, because poly is something that you're personally interested in (even if you won't be putting it into practice anytime soon).

With regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Bluebird]

So, for example, I share her belief that a young woman with no kids has her highest mating market value, and that "value" decreases with age and children.

Seriously? This sounds sort of ridiculous to me. You're saying that because she is older now and has kids, she'll never find another partner? Or she is so much more unattractive because of that? You've left her undatable, and less desirable, so you are now bound to stay with her? Feh. I would argue that this changes depending on the partner. Guys her age might find her more attractive, because she is finished with growing her family. I know my husband PunkRock had dumped many women over the years because they wanted babies and he did not. He was happy to find a mate (me) who did not want any more kids. The fact that I still had two at home did not bother him. Anecdotal, but surely you can see that it isn't a hard fact, what you are saying.

At best I might maintain my commitments in divorce. But the reality (which is what she fears in all of these scenarios) is that I could acquire commitments to other women and children, and then she and our children would be getting less. (Unfortunately there is no legal way to avoid that.)

You could get a vasectomy. But if you are divorced you could do that too. Not a reason to count poly out.

Yes, at some point, presumably after the kids are grown, the balance of debt in the marriage contract would be more neutral and it would not be immoral from that perspective to unilaterally divorce.

I think it is more immoral to live unhappily, when you could divorce and write in financial commitments to your wife and children in the decree.

 

[Lysander]

kdt26417: Yeah, she reads very fast (she famously read War and Peace in one day), but obviously her attention and retention suffer. Plus she read Sex at Dawn when it first came out, and obviously wasn't thinking of applying it to question her worldview.

Bluebird: The economic arguments are generalities. Yes, I believe there are plenty of exceptions to this one. But unless one has an exception lined up I think it's fair to base one's expectations on the generalizations. But the conversation isn't over yet!

 

[Journeyofawakening]

So, for example, I share her belief that a young woman with no kids has her highest mating market value, and that "value" decreases with age and children. (Actually, I wasn't aware there are any credible disputes of this assertion.) Therefore, yes, we believe I am currently in debt on the marriage contract..

I disagree...quite strongly!! What do you mean by 'value'? Am I less of a person, less interesting, less sexually appealing, less awesome...just because I have children and some years on me? No. Personally, I don't think so. That sounds like that opinion is coming from some insecurities.

 

[MightyMax]

I agree, to an extent, but I don't think it's that different for men. As you get older, it's more likely that potential matches are in monogamous relationships, thus off limits. That decreases your dating pool. Additionally, not all of the people who are left to date are open to dating someone with children, so again, that reduces the pool. Some of the people left in your pool might feel differently than you about future child bearing, so again, that brings down the number of compatible people. Then, supposing you do meet someone who is fine with you having children, in your age range, and is fine with not having more children with you, you have to then worry about whether your schedules match up enough for you to get to know each other. This is on top of the other compatibility checks that you have to do.

 

[Lysander]

I should probably not have included that statement because it's so easy to take it as a personal insult. It's not meant to be: It's a general observation of the traditional dating marketplace and a fair fear for a woman to have. Any particular woman may actually find greater options as she gets older, and having kids may (as some have noted) actually open mating options that are closed without them.

More importantly, it's tangential to the purpose of this thread.

I included it as part of an explanation of why it's not fair for me to unilaterally walk out on my wife unless she is open to finding and switching to the better men for her that are likely out there but that she would have to be willing to date to find. She doesn't want to have to date again. She'd rather have me on the terms we agreed to. And if I were gone she probably wouldn't date again.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Well, I am on the belif that it isn't fair to walk out of anyone's life without doing what you can to save the relationship. At the same time, talking like people owe you make it sound like a job, not a loving relationship. And if you owe her because she gave her youth to bear and raise your children, don't you owe her because she didn't have to workduring those years? The list could go on forever.

At least in my country, as long as the children are not infants mums have no idea problems finding dates - it just "proves" that they are regular fertile women. It is very
unusual for women over a certain age to be childless, and most likely the men her age also have kids.

Anyway, if you do break up it might be hard financially and emotionally but it is hardly your job to find new men to love and support your wife. You could pay her and the kids enough to live ok or whatever is the rules where you live. But she would have to take care of herself in other ways. That's what breaking up is, unless you feel comfortable being her bestie.

 

[GalaGirl]

Before you seemed to say that you did not want to divorce because you fear she would bring woe upon you.

it's not fair for me to unilaterally walk out on my wife unless she is open to finding and switching to the better men for her that are likely out there but that she would have to be willing to date to find. She doesn't want to have to date again. She'd rather have me on the terms we agreed to. And if I were gone she probably wouldn't date again.

Now it seems you are saying you do not want to divorce because then she would be responsible for figuring out whether or not she wants to date again. Right now she does not want to date.

Ergo, you do not want to divorce right now because that means she would not date. She would be partnerless, and it would be your fault in leaving that she has this "gap" in her life.

If that is true... I encourage you to seek a counselor. You are very enmeshed sounding with your wife and you seem to believe you are responsible for her feelings and emotional management and coping. It is a self limiting belief. You don't want to be there really, but you are because of this belief. You are her emotional caretaker by the sound of it.

"Caregiving" is giving care. "Caretaking" is taking other people's concerns, jobs and responsibilities on for yourself when it is not your concern, job or responsibility. Over doing it. It is up to her if she stays single or not post divorce. It is not your choice to be making.

This whole "I owe her" thing -- A fair and amicable divorce settlement would be what is "owed." You do not also have to suspend your own happiness by sticking around in a marriage you do not really want. Subsuming yourself to the relationship is not healthy.

Additionally, you seem to be taking up her mono amorous/monogamous sweetie slot when you don't want to be there. She could have someone who really DOES want to be there. But she isn't going to go looking until the slot is empty. She is not poly and for her to start looking now would be her cheating on her marriage.

You have a lot going on, and a lot to think about and sort out. Figure out what is healthy thinking and what is not healthy thinking. What is healthy relationship dynamics and what is not healthy relationship dynamics.

So... could start seeing a counselor. Could take better care of you.

Galagirl

 

[Lysander]

GalaGirl: If you are not a professional counselor you should be. (And if you are, PM me your Paypal because I owe you )

Isn't my situation the general plight of the polyamorous person? I love her, but I need to love others.

In my case, love has a very practical component -- I guess you could say that I love by giving care and taking care (which works out great, because we all know how many points women give for practical gestures ).

My perception is that she could be happier with someone else, but ultimately she should decide that. I offered to bow out of the way and even help her find someone better, but she says, "No, I want you." Presumably the healthy and proper thing for me to do is respect her decision, because I do love her.

The unhealthy (but not unreasonable) part is that she insists on strict adhesion to a clause of our contract that is making me unhappy.

In an up-front relationship if you can't negotiate terms that make everyone happy you don't enter the relationship. And if the relationship becomes unhealthy you end it.

I see now that I'm essentially trying to bargain my way into a different relationship with her, and that's futile. If she doesn't accept the change then I have to decide whether I value my happiness more than hers.

So the healthy conversation boils down to the following: I say, "I love you, but I need to change the terms of our relationship." She says, "I can't tolerate those terms." I say, "Oh well, sorry we couldn't work it out. I wish you luck?"

 

[Bluebird]

Yes, because you both then have a chance at a relationship structure you want. The other way, one of you will be unhappy.

 

[GalaGirl]

So the healthy conversation boils down to the following: I say, "I love you, but I need to change the terms of our relationship." She says, "I can't tolerate those terms." I say, "Oh well, sorry we couldn't work it out. I wish you luck?"

Yes. You stop trying to have a conversation about changing terms and you move on to having a conversation about an amicable split.

Then she is free FROM poly stuff she does not want.

Then you are free TO poly in the way you want.

Forcing her to poly within marriage -- that's not kind to her.
Forcing yourself to be in a marriage you do not want -- that's not kind to you.

If you are both bit sad at a break up but eventually heal? Eventually are both able to seek relationships that are more compatible. (Whether each one chooses to do so is up to the individual. But nothing is blocking them from doing so any more.)

Growing apart over time in wants is not the end of the world. It's sad to break up, but it doesn't have to be ugly.

Each one of you is responsible for caring for your own self first.

Like on a plane crash you put on your own oxygen mask on FIRST before trying to help others to put their masks on. If you skip you, and help others first? You will suffocate. No good to you. You also don't help as many people as you would if you were ok with your mask on first.

If this relationship shape suffocates you, you get out so YOU can breathe first. You first duty is to you. Certainly provide for wife and children in a settlement, but you don't throw yourself under the bus staying in marriage you do not want. You can provide for them WITHOUT doing that. You can continue to coparent WITHOUT doing that.

That you are willing to subsume yourself to the relationship is being too selfless. Selflessness is not a virtue. It is self neglect.

Some people have this idea that taking care of themselves first is being "selfish." It is not. It is necessary.

There is a continuum:

Selfish -- (self full) -- selfless.​

Selfish: "Me me me!" All about serving me and forget anyone else.

Selfless: "Them them them!" All about serving them and forget myself.

Those are tilted ends of the see-saw -- not balanced and unhealthy. Just in different ways.

The balanced place is in the middle.

Self Full: "I meet my own needs first so I do not burn out or get spread too thin. Then I can gift my help to others in meeting their rational and reasonable needs."

I am not a counselor. But again... I strongly encourage you to get one.

Galagirl

 

[MightyMax]

I'd further this to say that one shouldn't expect their partner to also take the healthy route.

 

[MusicalRose]

I'd further this to say that one shouldn't expect their partner to also take the healthy route.

This is very true. I had a partner that did not want the same things I wanted, but he was unwilling to walk away, and so we got into a years-long cycle of him saying whatever he thought I needed to hear for him to keep me, and me wondering why even though he said it was okay we always ended up in a fight.

Taking the high road is not always a rewarding place right away. It does pay out in the end though.

 

[Portia]

Well, I am on the belif that it isn't fair to walk out of anyone's life without doing what you can to save the relationship. At the same time, talking like people owe you make it sound like a job, not a loving relationship. And if you owe her because she gave her youth to bear and raise your children, don't you owe her because she didn't have to workduring those years? The list could go on forever. .

Hi. This is Lysander's wife. Just wanted to clarify a few things on this thread. First, I always have worked. In fact, I spent several years as the primary earner while also raising young children.

I take my marriage vows very seriously. I pledged before God and our mutual family and friends to "forsake all others."

I've read "Sex at Dawn" as well as this forum and other sites related to polyamory. I have no objections to OTHER people being poly. However, I am definitely monogamous.

I am not clingy and am fairly independent. I travel and socialize on my own. I take the kids on vacations alone or away for the entire weekend to give my husband the alone time/peace and quiet he needs for his hobbies and special interests whether it is photography or even posting on this forum.

However, I just emotionally and physically feel ill at the idea of him having sex with another woman. I understand that may sound ridiculous to those on this forum. But it's MY personal opinion.

The arguments my husband outlined are my attempt to speak my husband's preferred language-- which is based on economic theory and science. My emotional or religious arguments would not be compelling to him -- although those are the most compelling to me and most accurate reflection of my reasons for rejecting a poly lifestyle.

If I had to summarize my argument, it would be:
I am a monogamous person.

I still love my husband and would prefer to stay married and raise our children together.

If given an ultimatum between polyamory or divorce,I would choose divorce with great sadness.

I would view such an ultimatum as a betrayal of marriage vows. We made a commitment to each other, which I have honored for 15+ years. I know many couples who have been married 40-50+ years. Nearly all of them have weathered various issues in their marriage and found their live endured.

My husband's numerous attempts to sway me to polyamory are the result of his desire to reconcile his conscience (feelings of love and loyalty to me and our children) with his longing to have multiple sexual partners.

If I were a horrible wife, his choice would be easy. But our compatibility in so many areas increases the risks for him. It's a big gamble to lose his wife in exchange for a "chance" to poly date (and to find multiple women willing to engage in a poly relationship on his terms).

I believe that my husband's desire for a poly relationship is primarily a result of different sex drives. I work full time in a demanding job (which gives him substantially more free time than I enjoy) and also am very attentive to our two small children. We had sex at least daily for 8+ years pre-children. Post-children, I'm exhausted and unable to keep up with my husband's sex drive. He wants a secondary because he won't be happy without daily sex (or even sex multiple times a day). But my job is stressful. Dealing with kids is stressful and physically exhausting. Having sex once (or twice) a week is about all I can handle. I am monogamous by nature but also far too busy to entertain the concept of poly dating (even if I were not so emotionally disturbed by the concept). If I had the time/energy to date, I would rather have more sex with my husband than seek another secondary partner.

I understand that many men stray during this phase of their marriages. One of my friends told me how her husband had an affair during her pregnancy and then spent months begging her to take him back after she dumped him. That was horrible for her, but she forgave him and he realized he loved his wife more than his woman on the side.

Asking to be poly is my husband's attempt to stray while still feeling like a "nice guy" because he would have my blessing.

There's also another choice: which is to wait out this difficult time period while we balance young children with the demands of work. I can't control his choice, but I know which choice is consistent with our vows and what I believe his conscience dictates.

I find the poly community fascinating, so I enjoy reading your thoughts.

 

[tenK]

Hi Portia,

Thanks for joining in the discussion and welcome! It's nigh on impossible (and in fact, often undesirable) for one person to present a balanced appraisal of both sides of an issue - so I hope you didn't find any of the (one-sided) advice to the (one-sided) problem shared to be negative.

The thing that stands out most for me in what you say is that you are willing to work on improving your sexual relations with your husband. I think we can all relate to being too tired, or too emotionally drained to fully enjoy sex in the face of familial or financial responsibilities. There's nothing that's more of a mood-killer than a giant to-do list, and an overflowing basket of dirty laundry in the bedroom! After three years of living with my partner, I finally realised that rather than try to convince her to relax and leave the washing up/weekly shop/work deadline/current task, to be completed later on after we had had some intimate time, it was far easier to just help her get those tasks out of the way: thus freeing up the practical time and space for intimacy, as well as encouraging greater emotional intimacy between us as she sees that I am not dumping all this on her or taking her for granted. Rather than being an additional source of stress or 'thing to be managed' in her life, I can be her ally and support. By stepping in to help, I'm actually reminding her of some of those attractive sides to my personality that she found so interesting and sexy in the beginning, as well as reminding myself that I can call on her to help me when I need it too.

You say that your work allows your husband more time to explore his personal hobbies and interests, but what about you? When do you get alone time? Forgive me if I'm reading too much into your post, but have you become a bit of a Need Machine, putting everyone else's needs before your own? To some extent, this is a natural consequence of having children, but then again, that's why we tend to do this parenting thing with the support of others. I think the logical next step for the pair of you is to work out how to shift that feeling of responsibility more equally, to give YOU more of a life outside of work and family. I think when you start valuing yourself as an individual, and have time to prioritise your own needs and wants, your interest in sex will also pick up quite naturally. That would seem to be a win-win for the both of you. He will get more sexual attention from a woman who is genuinely interested, you will have more personal freedom to do with what you want, and you will both be able to preserve your marriage vows in the way in which you intended them at the time.

What I'm advising sounds easy, but it is not an easy solution. Often we become entrenched in our ways. Your husband is going to have to sacrifice some of his freedom to enable yours. You will have to give over your control of certain things that, although they suck away at your time and energy, you might have some pride associated with. But it is a compromise that I think might work for the pair of you. Why not set a time-frame (3 months?) to take all discussions of opening your relationship off the table completely, and instead, take a brutal look at what each of you do with your time every day. Spend the time you have both been spending on exploring polyamory, and really look at ways in which you can work together to improve each other's existence, and juggle all the day to day things you have going on. Start small. Maybe you make a list of groceries, and send him to the store (with the kids in tow, even though you know that will be mayhem) while you clean up house a little and have a nice soak in the bath. Let him figure out his own way of managing the tasks - even if you think he's being inefficient, avoid stepping in and taking over. Get the kids into the idea of coming to dad with their problems as well as you - and definitely get them used to the idea that they can't interrupt mum while she's doing her own thing all the time. At the end of the day, talk about how you feel it went. You might find HE'S the one too tired for sex! But at least you will get a chance to truly empathise with each other and understand where the other is coming from.

I wish you both well.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

Hi. This is Lysander's wife. Just wanted to clarify a few things on this thread. First, I always have worked. In fact, I spent several years as the primary earner while also raising young children.

I take my marriage vows very seriously. I pledged before God and our mutual family and friends to "forsake all others."

I've read "Sex at Dawn" as well as this forum and other sites related to polyamory. I have no objections to OTHER people being poly. However, I am definitely monogamous.

I am not clingy and am fairly independent. I travel and socialize on my own. I take the kids on vacations alone or away for the entire weekend to give my husband the alone time/peace and quiet he needs for his hobbies and special interests whether it is photography or even posting on this forum.

However, I just emotionally and physically feel ill at the idea of him having sex with another woman. I understand that may sound ridiculous to those on this forum. But it's MY personal opinion.

The arguments my husband outlined are my attempt to speak my husband's preferred language-- which is based on economic theory and science. My emotional or religious arguments would not be compelling to him -- although those are the most compelling to me and most accurate reflection of my reasons for rejecting a poly lifestyle.

If I had to summarize my argument, it would be:
I am a monogamous person.

I still love my husband and would prefer to stay married and raise our children together.

If given an ultimatum between polyamory or divorce,I would choose divorce with great sadness.

I would view such an ultimatum as a betrayal of marriage vows. We made a commitment to each other, which I have honored for 15+ years. I know many couples who have been married 40-50+ years. Nearly all of them have weathered various issues in their marriage and found their live endured.

My husband's numerous attempts to sway me to polyamory are the result of his desire to reconcile his conscience (feelings of love and loyalty to me and our children) with his longing to have multiple sexual partners.

If I were a horrible wife, his choice would be easy. But our compatibility in so many areas increases the risks for him. It's a big gamble to lose his wife in exchange for a "chance" to poly date (and to find multiple women willing to engage in a poly relationship on his terms).

I believe that my husband's desire for a poly relationship is primarily a result of different sex drives. I work full time in a demanding job (which gives him substantially more free time than I enjoy) and also am very attentive to our two small children. We had sex at least daily for 8+ years pre-children. Post-children, I'm exhausted and unable to keep up with my husband's sex drive. He wants a secondary because he won't be happy without daily sex (or even sex multiple times a day). But my job is stressful. Dealing with kids is stressful and physically exhausting. Having sex once (or twice) a week is about all I can handle. I am monogamous by nature but also far too busy to entertain the concept of poly dating (even if I were not so emotionally disturbed by the concept). If I had the time/energy to date, I would rather have more sex with my husband than seek another secondary partner.

I understand that many men stray during this phase of their marriages. One of my friends told me how her husband had an affair during her pregnancy and then spent months begging her to take him back after she dumped him. That was horrible for her, but she forgave him and he realized he loved his wife more than his woman on the side.

Asking to be poly is my husband's attempt to stray while still feeling like a "nice guy" because he would have my blessing.

There's also another choice: which is to wait out this difficult time period while we balance young children with the demands of work. I can't control his choice, but I know which choice is consistent with our vows and what I believe his conscience dictates.

I find the poly community fascinating, so I enjoy reading your thoughts.

Sure, I was only reffering to what he said. You don't seem demisexual to me. It seems that you don't really have differences in libido, just differences in work load (both that you work more and take more responsability for the kids. It seems it would be easy for him to change the situation, if he can't work more then perhaps take more care of the kids. If he is frisky about having sex and you are exhausted, there is something very wrong in the way that responsabilities are divived in your household. In my country, People who want more sex are always encauraged to do more housework. A lot of people find that they have a different libido once released from the current workload.

Since your hustand is so into economical theory, he might understand that energy out without the uppertunity to recharge means less energy in. It is like trying to run a machine set on very low battery capasity. all thewhile you have another machine with super batteries which are simply not used as much.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Well, this casts things in a very different light. Saying that the idea of your husband being with someone else makes you feel ill doesn't sound ridiculous, it simply sounds like your honest reaction. It wouldn't be mine, but it's yours, and it's not just something you can just up and change if you're presented with a clever enough argument. He might completely convince you that this makes sense on an intellectual level, but if you're still nauseous and weeping when he's out with another person, then your marriage is still gonna be tanked regardless.

It sounds like you've been very clear. He's presented you with (by the standards of everyday society) a radical idea. You've considered it, which many people don't even do in this position, and found that it's not for you on an emotional level. That should be enough. This isn't the type of marriage you signed up for, and you shouldn't be pressured into it. It will only create resentment if he keeps pushing indefinitely.

I found the entire basis of this conversation -- a desire to talk about theory when the real issue was a specific case -- to be off-kilter from the beginning, which is why I responded with anecdotes. The thing about theory is that it's only useful in the abstract. It may apply in many cases... it may even apply in most cases... but if it doesn't apply in your specific case, then there's no point using it as a basis on which to try to make decisions. "In theory, most women xyz." So?? You're not most women, you're just you, and an individual case is always going to have things about it that make it at least a little different from any theoretical archetype, if not wildly different.

I hope you guys find another answer to your troubles. Maybe he could take up a sport or martial art to get some energy out. Maybe he could start masturbating more, with some low-input-required sexy texts or pix or conversation from you to help out. Maybe you guys could hire a once-a-week babysitter to give you a little extra alone time. But whatever you do, he's got to let go of the idea that he's going to win you over with theory when your heart and gut are saying "NO".

 

[GalaGirl]

Portia, it is good to hear from you.

I am a monogamous person.

I still love my husband and would prefer to stay married and raise our children together.

If given an ultimatum between polyamory or divorce,I would choose divorce with great sadness.

I would view such an ultimatum as a betrayal of marriage vows.

Yup. There is nothing wrong with monogamy. I agree it would not kind for him to be giving you ultimatums to make you do what he wants.

I think it is better to be emotionally honest -- if your husband is no longer willing to be a in a Closed, monogamous marriage he could say where he is at. If he wants poly, he could bow out and end it clean. That is better than manipulating with ultimatums so he can come out with both and still be a "nice guy" as you say. It is not nice.

There's also another choice: which is to wait out this difficult time period while we balance young children with the demands of work. I can't control his choice, but I know which choice is consistent with our vows and what I believe his conscience dictates.

That's another way to go if both partners are actually willing to do that. You seem to be willing. He's got to figure out if he is willing.

When he cannot have both? He has to figure out what he wants more -- his marriage with you or polyamory. I still think he'd benefit from counseling to help him with all that.

Trying to pressure you into it is not the way to go.

Galagirl