It's a Texlahoma Story

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Date night with Dag last night It felt really good to have some quality time together. And sex. That too

We had an interesting talk about long distance relationships ... It has always been another "does not compute" thing for me. I mean, I understand that sometimes over the course of a relationship people might be separated for work/school/family for a while. But the relationships that start between people thousands of miles apart despite no possibility of ever being closer ... I said something along the lines of "why even bother?" and Dag's response really made me think. He said, "Sometimes just the human connection is enough... Just knowing there is someone in the world who cares."

First, damn, I am lucky to have people who make me feel loved and important. I don't usually think of myself as having lots of social resources. (I am much more of a "few close friends" type of person, and I leave the extended social network stuff to Andy, who is soooo much better than me at keeping in touch with people.) But - I am beyond lucky to have those half dozen people who will be there for me no matter what.

Second, the look on Dag's face when he said all that just about broke my heart. There was a lot of pain there. Loneliness. I don't know much about his marriage, and I really don't want to know. Partly because it seems like none of my business (beyond the obvious sexual health stuff). Partly because when someone I care about has a problem or is unhappy, I go into full blown "fixer" mode and obsess about it. It's easier for me to stay in denial about the possibility that Dag is unhappy at home than to face it and not be able to fix it.

From what little he has managed to tell me before I stick my fingers in my ears and sing lalala-can't-hear-you, he and his wife have just drifted apart since having kids. They're partners and co-parents, but not emotionally close. I know that his home life is 100% about the kids. He and his wife have gone out as a couple TWICE in the year+ I've known him. He has said things about not abandoning his kids, and not giving up on his family, that make me wonder if it's more complicated than that. Or maybe not. Not having kids, I can't imagine what it's like, to have something that takes priority over EVERYTHING.

Anyway, I'm seeing his "I miss you" texts in a different way since that conversation. Not as a guilt trip, but as a need for connection, a need to feel important to me. Helps me to understand and respond, knowing that what he *needs* in that moment is to hear that I miss him too and I'm thinking about him.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Work is just kicking my butt lately Not the actual *work*, but the germs of a rotating crew of small children. Spent yesterday surrounded by runny noses and woke up today with a splitting headache and stuffy head. Also we are juggling outbreaks of pinkeye AND lice. It's like working in a laundromat right now

Despite all that, my head and heart are in a really good place these days. I feel like I've finally achieved the "zen" state where I can just enjoy my relationships as they are. (Or maybe I'm just stoned on cough syrup )

What I've FINALLY realized is that I can commit fully to *Dag the person* without necessarily committing to *being in a relationship with Dag*. I'm sure to some people that's "well, duh" but to me it's quite the revelation.

I've always seen part of my commitment to Andy as a commitment to maintaining, nurturing, and improving our relationship. Almost as though "the relationship" was its own entity, needing to be cared for and fed and tended. I'm constantly taking its temperature, evaluating its health, contemplating its future. That's an attitude that seems to only crop up in intimate relationships for me - as much as I love my friends, I don't worry constantly about whether I'm devoting enough time and energy to "the friendship". I am able to just let the friendships adjust naturally to other changes in our lives - sometimes we have more time together, sometimes less, sometimes we are sharing every last detail of our lives, sometimes there is more emotional distance. But I know we are still there for each other, that while the nature of our friendship may change, our commitment to be there for each other doesn't.

And that's what I want with Dag. Or any non-nesting partner I may have in the future. A sense that we will always be in each other's lives, in some way, and always care for each other. But without the pressure to maintain a certain type of relationship. Because I *can't* promise that I will always be able to make X amount of time for someone, or always be sexually involved, or romantic partners. I know in my heart that if for some bizarre unknown reasons Andy needed me to stop dating others, I would. I wouldn't give up caring about someone, or supporting them, but I would give up the dating relationship. Not because "Andy said so" ... I can't imagine him ever saying anything like that, anyway... But because Andy's happiness and the health of the me+Andy relationship is my first priority.

Just acknowledging this... Facing it ... Has lifted a huge weight off my shoulders. I feel good now, loving Dag, supporting him, being part of his life. Because I am being honest with myself, and with him, about the commitments I can offer and the ones I can't.

I feel very at peace now. Happy. Content. Time to go drink more cough syrup

 

[Magdlyn]

I've always seen part of my commitment to Andy as a commitment to maintaining, nurturing, and improving our relationship. Almost as though "the relationship" was its own entity, needing to be cared for and fed and tended. I'm constantly taking its temperature, evaluating its health, contemplating its future. That's an attitude that seems to only crop up in intimate relationships for me - as much as I love my friends, I don't worry constantly about whether I'm devoting enough time and energy to "the friendship". I am able to just let the friendships adjust naturally to other changes in our lives - sometimes we have more time together, sometimes less, sometimes we are sharing every last detail of our lives, sometimes there is more emotional distance. But I know we are still there for each other, that while the nature of our friendship may change, our commitment to be there for each other doesn't.

And that's what I want with Dag. Or any non-nesting partner I may have in the future. A sense that we will always be in each other's lives, in some way, and always care for each other. But without the pressure to maintain a certain type of relationship.

Really? I never have the sense I will "always" be in the life of a partner (with one exception). I have only 2 friends, my sister and my bff from schooldays, who I feel committed to for life. But partners? People and priorities change, and I don't usually stay friends with exes.

I guess in the 7 years I have been practicing poly fulltime, I have seen too many men pass out of my life that I thought had potential for longer relationships. I've developed very low expectations, since, IME, most men have very low emotional fortitude. Most of them are just horny children in big hulking bodies lol

I feel I will always be with my female partner only because we get along fantastically, we never fight, and we have a million things in common. Also, she has attachment issues and I think she would cling to me tooth and nail no matter what.

Because I *can't* promise that I will always be able to make X amount of time for someone, or always be sexually involved, or romantic partners. I know in my heart that if for some bizarre unknown reasons Andy needed me to stop dating others, I would. I wouldn't give up caring about someone, or supporting them, but I would give up the dating relationship. Not because "Andy said so" ... I can't imagine him ever saying anything like that, anyway... But because Andy's happiness and the health of the me+Andy relationship is my first priority.

Well, that is hierarchical poly at its finest, I guess. I'd never dump a partner because miss pixi said so. We do NOT have veto power!

Just acknowledging this... Facing it ... Has lifted a huge weight off my shoulders. I feel good now, loving Dag, supporting him, being part of his life. Because I am being honest with myself, and with him, about the commitments I can offer and the ones I can't.

I feel very at peace now. Happy. Content. Time to go drink more cough syrup

I do agree with you on letting a romantic relationship take its own shape with no expectations! I learned that one the hard way with my last long term r'ship with a male.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Well, there goes my zen

Magdyln, there's a reason I tend to preface almost every post I make here with, "I don't identify as poly". I'm not someone who ever felt stifled by monogamy or craved multiple partners. If Andy and I had been perfectly sexually compatible, we never would have opened up our relationship, at least not on my side. All I ever wanted from non monogamy was a steady fuck buddy or, if I got really lucky, a good friend with benefits.

You'd think that would be easy to find but it's not. Or rather, it's not easy to maintain. Feelings develop, people get attached. I've slept with 6 guys since opening things up, and all but one of them ended up wanting the full boyfriend-girlfriend thing eventually. When each of those ended, I wanted to stay friends, and was deeply hurt that my ex didn't. For me the friendship was the core, the important part, and the sex was... Fun. It was painful for me that these guys, all of whom professed to love me, didn't want my friendship if it didn't come with sex and romance. Dag means so much to me, he's amazing, so I'm trying to really make it work this time. It's (obviously, if you read this blog ) driving me insane.

For the record, Andy and I don't have veto power, or rules about time with other partners, or rules against feelings. He has been in what I jokingly refer to as a sexless marriage with Stephanie for far longer than he's known me, and it is a huge and wonderful part of his life. One that I support completely. When I say I would break up with someone for Andy, that's *my* choice. My priority. It's not a default "husband says no"... If Andy were the type to ever veto anything in my life, I wouldn't love him the way I do. It's just knowing that what hurts Andy also hurts me. I can't be happy if he's not ok.

No, the problem isn't rules, or couple privilege, it's *me*. I just don't feel what I feel for Andy for anyone else. I can love lots of people, but not the way I love him. We've been together for 15 years, and through all the ups and downs, and there have been plenty, the commitment we feel to stay a couple for the rest of our lives has never wavered. I've said it before, but it bears repeating - that depth of commitment and entwinement is an integral part of romantic love for me.

I don't doubt that I could feel that with someone besides Andy, someday, if he died, or we divorced. But I can't feel that passionate, overwhelming, soul-consuming love without at least the hope of "together forever". And I feel like some of the "together forever" commitments I equate with being life partners quite simply don't work for multiple people. For example, I am committed to living with Andy. Since he's the primary breadwinner, that means we go where his career goes. Unless I meet some guy who's willing to pull up stakes and move cross country for Andy's job, I really can't promise living together to anyone else.

So what do I do with this? Stop dating, stop being non-monogamous, hell, stop having friends, because they might fall in love with me someday? It's like poly is some slippery slope, where you can't stop until all your relationships are equal. I don't have anything against having multiple equal relationships in my life. It would be lovely if I felt that. But it never turns out that way. No matter how much effort and time and love I put in, no other relationship has ever felt as important to me as my marriage. Maybe someday one will. But not yet. And not for lack of trying.

I feel like someone is holding food in one hand, and sparkly red lipstick in the other, and telling me I have to care exactly the same amount about both. One is life sustaining and essential, the other is fun and exciting and a nice confidence boost. They are not the same, and they are not equal priorities to me. But somehow I'm a bad person if I admit that out loud.

It confuses me that I'm expected to act in a way I don't feel, to make commitments I can't sustain. How is that part of the transparency and honesty that's supposed to be the core of polyamory???

ETA:
As a clarification ... No, I don't see Dag or anyone else as a luxury item like red lipstick. I get that people are real individuals with needs and emotions.

But I am going to leave the example in there, because I can't think of a better one to convey how differently I view nesting life partnerships from all other relationships. It is honestly impossible for me to see them as equal in importance. A live in partnership simply meets so many more of my needs, and adds so much more to my life, than a dating-but-not-living-together arrangement. To me, a boyfriend whom I see once or twice a week is very similar to a friend I see once or twice a week. The only difference is sex. But when I try to compare the boyfriend I see once a week to the partner I live with, I end up with lipstick vs food metaphors.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I truly do not know what to do with all the thoughts in my head right now.

The feeling I cannot shake is, why is this not good enough? I'm a great friend, I am. I love my friends. Most have been in my life for 10, 15, 20 years. I'm the one who drives over at 1 am when someone's cat is sick, or takes off work for an entire school vacation to watch someone's kids, or finds the restaurant with table side s'mores when the bonfire gets rained out.

But somehow that's not enough, unless I can eventually love somebody just as much as I love my husband? What if I just never do? What if I don't see that as a *goal*, but rather just something that might happen someday, but I won't care if it doesn't?

I'm just lost on this. Lost on why it's ok to end relationships for any reason EXCEPT prioritizing another partner or their needs. Lost on what, exactly, I'm supposed to commit to in relationships if being supportive and loving for as long as they will have me is not enough.

 

[AutumnLeaves]

Lost on what, exactly, I'm supposed to commit to in relationships if being supportive and loving for as long as they will have me is not enough.

For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with the way you do relationships. There is nothing inherently wrong in prioritizing your nesting partner, not having "total" feelings for others (where total is tied up to wanting a relationship escalator), not wanting everything to be structured and long term, whatever. A lot of your anxiety and internal questioning reminds me a lot of questions that I couldn't stop asking myself as a queer youth. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that you're happy and comfortable and that you aren't deliberately hurting others.

As long as you're open and honest with everyone involved, that's what matters. As long as you're satisfied with what you're getting, stop comparing yourself to others and how they do polyamory, stop comparing your relationships to each other. If you focus on everything that is different or everything that is not how someone else might do it, you'll drive yourself mad. Who cares what other people think about how you do poly as long as it works for the people involved and you are happy?

It is good enough if it's good enough for you. And that's fine.

Anyway, sorry if I'm intruding!

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Not intruding at all It's always nice to get a reality check when I'm going off the deep end

When I react like that - when I'm basically just screaming into the abyss, what do you want??? - I'm not really thinking about this board as much as I'm talking to Dag and a couple of my exes. There are so many times I have felt like I'm exhausting myself physically and emotionally and it's still not enough. Such a frustrating place to be

I know the big problem here is me and my unlimited ability to see other people's needs as mandates. Someone I care about is hurting, lonely, bored... I see that as my problem to fix. Works well for me in my job in social services. Not so well in relationships.

I feel like I somehow promise more than I can deliver in these relationships, without even realizing it, and then wake up one day overwhelmed. Like my friendship and affection and general girlfriend-ly behavior get taken to mean something more than I intended. And then I feel like an asshole, but instead of owning up to it and admitting I'm not on the same page, I drive myself crazy trying to make everything work. Why

My biggest worry is that I will lose Dag as a friend. That I will screw up the boyfriend/girlfriend aspect of our relationship, or want to end it, and then I will lose the friendship too. One ex, his wife vetoed me, and I never heard from him again... Never understood why she had to forbid even a platonic friendship. Two other exes, I ended the Bf/gf relationship but wanted to remain friends - both said it was too difficult. So I'm wary, now.

I mean, I'm happy dating Dag. I'm just in a place where the friendship is waaaay more important to me than the sex (the place I end up in every attempt at a non escalator relationship). I've told him several times that I feel stressed and guilty over not having enough time and energy to give him, and that I'd be fine with him seeking additional partners. But he always backtracks, says he's totally fine with things as they are, doesn't want anyone else. And then two days later, the "I'm lost and lonely without you" messages start again

Sometimes I think I should go back to therapy, but any halfway decent therapist would tell me to put the poly stuff on hold if it's triggering my anxiety like this

 

[AutumnLeaves]

It sounds like you brain is fighting the last war. But you're comparing still, it's just comparing Dag to your exes. The worries are valid, but nothing is guaranteed. And most importantly, Dag isn't any of those exes. He's Dag and he deserves to be judged on his own merits (which seem quite meritorious, he seems very chill).

Too bad it's hard for anxious brain to get the message sometimes!

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Yes, Dag is awesome ... And chill, 99% of the time When his anxiety and insecurity kicks up it's confusing for me, in part because he usually is so calm.

We are both still figuring out how to feel secure in a non primary, non escalator type relationship. When I feel anxious I tend to detach a little, try to busy myself with other stuff. When Dag feels insecure or stressed about our relationship he will go overboard with the texts, calls, emails, etc, looking for reassurance. But that behavior makes *me* more anxious, so instead of reassuring him, I usually just make him feel worse We've talked about this and he tries to fix it by saying he'll text less or ask for less time... But that's not a solution to the real problem

What we need is for both of us to feel secure and content with the amount of time and communication we have. It seems like we have very different strategies for that, too. Me, I tend to reframe things in my mind (way too much CBT as both a patient and a practitioner ). If the time and energy we can commit to this relationship feels insufficient for "partners" but right on target for "BFFs with benefits", I'll just think of us as the latter and suddenly my anxiety drops waaaay down.

As for Dag... I don't want to try to mind read too much... But he talks about how in an ideal world, we'd have more time, more commitment, more *us*. His anxiety recedes when he hears me mirror that. It's like he can deal with having less if he knows we'd both prefer more.

I get frustrated with that, sometimes. I feel like we're painting ourselves as star crossed lovers, as opposed to competent adults who make choices that reflect our priorities The truth is, if I *really* wanted to spend every night with Dag, I would. It's not like I'm a prisoner. I just like spending most of my time with Andy, and the rest split between Dag, friends, and alone time. But when Dag needs reassured about how much I miss him, need him, wish I were with him... I feel guilty about my choices. Guilty for honestly preferring to sit around and veg out with my hubby most nights.

 

[Reverie]

As for Dag... I don't want to try to mind read too much... But he talks about how in an ideal world, we'd have more time, more commitment, more *us*. His anxiety recedes when he hears me mirror that. It's like he can deal with having less if he knows we'd both prefer more. I get frustrated with that, sometimes.

I feel guilty about my choices. Guilty for honestly preferring to sit around and veg out with my hubby most nights.

FWIW, I totally understand your point of view. I think I feel very similarly about my relationship with Rider as you do your relationship with your husband: I can love other people lots, but I have this insanely amazing once-in-a-lifetime-feeling relationship with Rider that I don't think I could match with anyone else if I tried. And I can't imagine having the energy to try. I have learned to let my connections with other people just "be what they are"...and what they are is usually necessarily further down my priority list.

I only date adults, and I am up front about what I can offer, so, as autonomous adults, they totally have the option stay or go based on what I actually have available for them. I may value them greatly for who they are and for what we bring to each other's lives, but I have built a life with Rider that I love, and I have only limited resources of time and attention to give to other people. And I want to give these things to other people, in the amounts that I have to give! I want to interact with other people intimately. But not at the expense of this wonderful thing I have with Rider.

Also, the first part I quoted above reminded me of something that used to bug me when Rider was dating Kelly. He'd leave a message window open or something and I'd see where she would wish he was there with her that night, and he would say he wished that too or some such thing like that, when I knew very well that he was actually excited about some plans that we had.

I asked him about it, confused, and he said he really just meant that he missed her; he didn't actually wish he were there instead. But he for some reason felt like he had to express it TO HER in a way that wasn't quite accurate—like he needed to make her believe that he was wishing himself away from me and over to her to echo her sentiment when it wasn't actually true.

When I pointed that out to him, and pointed out how it might be misleading about how he actually feels, he looked like a light bulb went off. He said he would think more carefully about word choice in future communications, and as far as I know, he did.

But it seems like in this case, you sort of feel like you are in the position he was in: feeling like you're supposed to be echoing Dag's sentiments whether you feel that way or not. And I don't think you should. I think it's treacherous waters to "white lie" about that kind of stuff. You risk giving him the wrong impression, and you want to be with someone who knows the whole story and is HAPPY with what you two can have together, who sees it as an addition to his life rather than one more thing that has a lack to it. I definitely don't think there's anything deserving of guilt if you just feel how you feel and want what you want. As long as you're being up front about it and not being a jerk to anyone. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Petunia]

I feel guilty about my choices. Guilty for honestly preferring to sit around and veg out with my hubby most nights.

I live in the same house with both of my guys, Golden and Bond. I am stingy with the time I give to Golden, because like you, I prefer to do nothing with Bond rather than give that time up for anyone else. It causes an immense amount of guilt for me, but it is just how I feel right now at this time in my life. It's hard because we live in the same house, so I can't make an excuse about plans as it's all right out in the open and it can be hurtful to Golden.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

FWIW, I totally understand your point of view. I think I feel very similarly about my relationship with Rider as you do your relationship with your husband: I can love other people lots, but I have this insanely amazing once-in-a-lifetime-feeling relationship with Rider that I don't think I could match with anyone else if I tried. And I can't imagine having the energy to try. I have learned to let my connections with other people just "be what they are"...and what they are is usually necessarily further down my priority list.

That's exactly how I feel about Andy. Even after 15 years together and a million ups and downs. I'm so damn lucky. I hesitate to use the term "soul mates" because I don't really believe in that, but it's honestly the best way to describe the feeling. And yet... It's not an engulfing or consuming kind of relationship, where I don't ever need or want anyone else. I really think our other relationships - platonic or romantic - make us happier and healthier individuals and better partners to each other. Ok, now I'm just gushing

But it seems like in this case, you sort of feel like you are in the position he was in: feeling like you're supposed to be echoing Dag's sentiments whether you feel that way or not. And I don't think you should. I think it's treacherous waters to "white lie" about that kind of stuff. You risk giving him the wrong impression, and you want to be with someone who knows the whole story and is HAPPY with what you two can have together, who sees it as an addition to his life rather than one more thing that has a lack to it. I definitely don't think there's anything deserving of guilt if you just feel how you feel and want what you want. As long as you're being up front about it and not being a jerk to anyone. That's my opinion anyway.

Such good advice. I excuse the "white lies" in my head because I know it's not something I'll ever have to act on - Dag's life is even busier than mine, with his career and marriage AND two kids. So the "wish we were together" stuff feels... Safe. And, it makes him happy, and I'm such a fucking people pleaser sometimes. But I'm basically helping him to continue assuming that love always means wanting to spend every minute together. When what I really need to do is help him figure out how to be happy loving and being loved by someone who doesn't want that. (Or, realize that he *can't* do that, and find someone who can love him the way he needs.)

I live in the same house with both of my guys, Golden and Bond. I am stingy with the time I give to Golden, because like you, I prefer to do nothing with Bond rather than give that time up for anyone else. It causes an immense amount of guilt for me, but it is just how I feel right now at this time in my life. It's hard because we live in the same house, so I can't make an excuse about plans as it's all right out in the open and it can be hurtful to Golden.

That sounds incredibly stressful. Sometimes I think all my problems would be solved if Dag just lived with us (or next door maybe, no way in hell could I come home from a day of working with kids and be around more kids ) But you're so right when you point out that one-on-one time is a need no matter what your living arrangements are... And juggling it gets harder the more entwined multiple lives become.

 

[Reverie]

I excuse the "white lies" in my head because I know it's not something I'll ever have to act on - Dag's life is even busier than mine, with his career and marriage AND two kids. So the "wish we were together" stuff feels... Safe. And, it makes him happy, and I'm such a fucking people pleaser sometimes. But I'm basically helping him to continue assuming that love always means wanting to spend every minute together. When what I really need to do is help him figure out how to be happy loving and being loved by someone who doesn't want that. (Or, realize that he *can't* do that, and find someone who can love him the way he needs.)

I think that was exactly Rider's boat, too, with Kelly. He knew it could only ever go so far, with us moving to the other side of the continent and her about to graduate and maybe leave the country. So he felt "safe" leading her on and mildly lying to her about what he felt because he knew it would never come time to shit or get off the pot (as they say). She was terribly lonely and unhappy in her situation, and his tiny lies were bright spots in her days.

But it *did* wound her, kind of, in that it led her to believe that he felt a different way (more?) than he did feel.

And it wounded ME a little that he would pay lip service to her in the direction of wishing himself away from me in order to..."string someone else along" is not exactly the right phrase, but...maybe keep an interest going there that was a little false? Maybe if she knew the truth of the matter, she'd have been less interested? So, in a way, it felt, to me, like he was falsely trading my "face" (as the socio-communication concept—my social prestige, in terms of "would rather be with her than me," in their communications) for her continued attention through deception. If any of that makes sense. I know I'm getting a little abstract here, and perhaps relying too much on my undergrad social science classes' concepts.

And I think, in the end, it also wounded *him* too! Because once I had the conversation with him calling him out on saying things other than he meant, I think he felt a) guilty that he was deceiving her, and b) suddenly cognizant of the fact that I saw some flaw of his that he didn't see, being NRE-blinded and willing to toss quite a few bits of logic down the pisser for the sake of continuing to maintain closeness to his NRE object.

Rider is also a "fucking people pleaser," to the point where the most miserable I've ever seen him was when he was trying to contort himself into the exact shape two different people wanted, when the two people wanted opposite things. You just need to, as they say these days, do you. There are zero circumstances where EVERYONE is going to be happy with how you do things, so you might as well make yourself happy first.

 

[playfulgirl]

For another perspective, I'm someone often in Dags position. I dint live with Real. I see him about 3 times a week due to various life constraints. Sometimes I miss him terribly and I say so. That doesn't mean I need or want a different structure. It's what I'm feeling. I need the feeling acknowledged not necessarily reciprocated in the moment. I just need to know I'm important to him and he cares for me. Likewise he will often say he wishes we were together or that he is missing me. I dont take this to mean he is unhappy with whatever is going on or not enjoying his life, simply that he is missing me/wishes things were different in that moment. People are complex individuals. Someone can simultaneously feel incredibly excited about plans with one partner and still long to be with another.
When real and I went to a con, I had many tthoughts about fox and how much fun it would be to be at it with him. Likewise, real some about how he would love to see lady enjoy a wine tour when we were on a trip. It didn't mean either of us was lying to our partners about thinking about them or diminishing our time with each other.
As someone in a long term non escalator relationship, I think that the most important thing is to acknowledge and honor the feelings of longing loneliness and distance honestly. If you miss him say so. If you aren't missing him that's ok but acknowledge his feelings and share yours. Even the times I'm havinga tough time, It doesn't upset me to know that real and lady are having a great night. It only upsets me to not have my experience heard and or acknowledged. Heck this is true whether it's a negative or a happy feeling.

 

[Reverie]

Sometimes I miss him terribly and I say so. That doesn't mean I need or want a different structure. It's what I'm feeling. I need the feeling acknowledged not necessarily reciprocated in the moment. I just need to know I'm important to him and he cares for me. Likewise he will often say he wishes we were together or that he is missing me. I dont take this to mean he is unhappy with whatever is going on or not enjoying his life, simply that he is missing me/wishes things were different in that moment.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come across that all expressions of missing fell into this category. I only meant that, specifically, statements that couldn't be true while the other one was also true were the ones that gave me pause.

An "I miss you" is much different than an "I wish I were with you tonight"; I take both quite literally, and I think of the second as meaning that, literally, if a wish could come true, the person would be in a different place than the one they are wishing from. Conversely, if they are explicit and say that they "wish they could see me" or "like what they're doing but wish they could be in two places at once," that doesn't present the logical conflict to me. Does that make sense?

 

[playfulgirl]

What you are saying makes sense. I was just saying that for me, such statements mean the same thing to my ears. When I hear I wish you were with me tonight, it reads much them same as I miss you.
Mostly I wanted to put forward the idea that non nesting partners do experience more alone time and sometimes need that acknowledged in a loving way and that doing so doesn't diminish the time being spent with another partner. And also that some people could say I wish you were here or i wish i werethere without it meaning I don't want to be with my current partner, ie longing for one person does not always equal not being fully happy and engaged with the nesting partner.
For me, I hear statements like I wish you were here. ..I wish I were holding you right now... I wish I could see you tonight as honest statements acknowledging affection and distance but not indicating unhappiness at ones present company.

Anyways this is a convo more suited in relationship corner rather than a blog.
I felt that hearing how a non nesting partner experienced such sentiments might be helpful since girl seemed concerned about how her statements could be perceived (honest or dishonest) by someone in that situation

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I actually love having conversations like this here on my blog It's not just a journaling space for me, it's a processing space, and other perspectives are exactly what I need for that.

People really do interpret words soooo differently. I remember Andy kind of reading over my shoulder while I was texting some guy right after we'd opened our relationship - a guy who I never ended up even meeting - and being hurt by the things I wrote. I was packing for a trip and said something along the lines of "I wish I was packing all these cute clothes to come see you" if I'm remembering right. Andy took it literally - I'd rather be with random no last name okc guy than him. And I was just like, I'm flirting! It's what you do! That was the day we decided that reading each other's texts did way more harm than good

Playfulgirl, it's really helpful to hear that you interpret the "wish I was with you" stuff that way, because that's how I mean it... It's a short but sweet version of Reverie's "I wish I could be in two places at once". In an in-person convo or a long email I might explain my feelings to Dag very carefully and precisely ... but text and phone, I'm usually just saying what comes in my head and not analyzing all the implications of my words

 

[Reverie]

Yeah, it's true that I am a very literal person, and also a words person (part of my job involves heavy editorial duties) and the exact denotation and closest connotation of words means more to me than I think it does to most people. I tend to really split hairs when it comes to meaning. Rider and I had a whole conversation about it at the time—his meaning was more like the general one—but in the end he decided to use my meanings in case other people also shared them, as it seemed "safer." The way that different people interpret meaning is an endlessly fascinating topic; I actually studied semantics for part of my graduate degree, so I will talk about this stuff all day, lol.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I've been thinking a lot about what it means to "let each relationship just be what it is"...

This article was linked in another thread recently

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

And what jumped out at me was that there weren't any models listed besides "hierarchical" and "multi-primary" It seems like an awful lot of us practice a kind of poly that falls into a vague middle ground between those two.

Andy and I fully accept that any new relationship might end up being a lasting, loving, life-changing experience. But we also know that most new relationships WON'T be that big of a deal - they'll last a few months or a few years without radically altering our lives. So while we don't go into new relationships with the rule that they *must* be secondary, I don't expect that most people I date will eventually become primary partners. Nor do I think I have to end things if a relationship can't become primary. There are a million reasons I might want to date someone, but not have that level of commitment and entanglement. One of the biggest is that I don't really have the time or energy right now to develop another primary relationship.

So, there's no strict prescriptive hierarchy... But it's not multi-primary either, necessarily. I've heard folks use the phrase "descriptive hierarchy", which makes sense in a stable relationship situation, but doesn't do justice to the fluid and variable nature of so many poly connections. And even if there is a perfect term that I haven't heard yet... Having the right word wouldn't make sorting out each relationship any easier

Sometimes things naturally fall into place, with both/all parties eventually wanting the same kind of connection. But there are also times when one partner wants more time, or a different style of relationship. In the mono dating scene, that's sufficient cause for a break up, but in poly it seems we often try to make it work. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, honestly. When you don't go into a relationship with any defined expectations - when you are open to anything from fuck buddies to life partners - it's much harder to know if the relationship is "working". When you have no road map, how do you know if you're moving in the right direction?

 

[playfulgirl]

You might enjoy some of the recent polyweekly podcasts. There was one about 'designer relationships' followed by another discussing hierarchies not necessarily being bad but descriptive or current roles and priority. They are decent food for thought.