It's a Texlahoma Story

I often sleep on a heating pad because I have a bad back. It only covers the area from my shoulders to my upper hips. So if I peed the bed, it wouldn't get on the heating pad. :p

My partner sleeps nude year round. In winter I sleep in a flannel nightgown and sometimes leg warmers, under a comforter layered under an afghan. I wake up in the morning, get out from under my cocoon, turn off the heating pad, and often she is lying there happily sleeping, completely uncovered, in a 65 degree house! Body thermostats can be so different!

No guilt! Lots of couples figure out different sleeping arrangements due to comfort issues. As long as you have sex before sleep, who cares if you sleep together all night?
 
Been a tough day for me today. I must have written and deleted half a dozen attempts at blogging out the feelings :rolleyes:

Mostly I'm struggling with feeling incredibly low energy right now, and like I don't have anything to give anyone. What little I do have goes to Andy, and work, and there's just not much left. I've been trying to talk to Dag about it instead of just balling it up inside myself.

We were texting back and forth and I wrote this

If I can be completely honest ... I don't worry that you'll get fed up with me not having enough time and break up with me... If that happened it would be sad but I think we'd survive as friends...

What I worry about is that you'll stay in a relationship with me even though you're not getting what you need. Now THAT would break my heart

And he just stopped replying. Hmmmm.
 
(Rambling thoughts from earlier today...)

When I am in a monogamous relationship, especially if my partner doesn't have super close friends and family, I feel this constant anxiety and pressure to meet all of their needs. All of the time. At the expense of my own comfort and happiness. Because if I don't, who will???

I've seen the whole "putting your partner's needs ahead of your own" mentioned a lot in regard to dependent personality disorder - I don't think that's where it comes from with me. I don't have problems forming my own identity or getting validation from lots of sources.

I just have issues - so very many issues - from growing up in the family from hell. To make a long story very short, I lost my mom, my stepbrother, my uncle, and two very close friends to suicide. In the world where I grew up, when people didn't get their needs met, they left in a sudden and violent way. I'm still hyper vigilant about making sure everyone around me is happy all the damn time - because, well, if they aren't, they might kill themselves.

But that hyper vigilance to everyone's needs... It is EXHAUSTING. Especially because it becomes an ingrained pattern and I find myself doing it constantly, for little things as well as big ones. Where my partner wants to go to dinner, how often they want to have sex, what temperature they want the house to be (;)) - those types of things also make me ignore my own needs to meet theirs. And of course, that just leaves me anxious and resentful and even less able to meet any needs, my partner's or my own.

What breaks that cycle for me? Remembering that I am NOT my partner's only hope for emotional support, or sex, or a chance to go to that trendy new restaurant. That I can say no and my partner can still get that need met somehow. That is literally what keeps my anxiety from going to crazy person levels. It's one reason polyamory appeals to me so much. And why, for me to stay sane in a monogamous relationship, I need to be with someone who has a close circle of friends and family.

(and yes, all this was originally part of a long Dag related rant that included many, many repititions of the phrase "I'm allowed to be tired sometimes damn it!")
 
So, this happened...

Me: Whatcha doing?

Andy: Reading stuff M posted on Facebook about poly.

Me: Paulie who?

Andy: You've got to be kidding. Poly!

Me: I don't think I know him...

Andy: P.O.L.Y. Poly!!!

Me: Oh... Poly like poly!!!

Yeah, we're THAT old couple already :rolleyes:
 
I'm starting to get really excited for our trip next weekend :D And a little nervous... Coordinating a weekend for 3 people is not easy. Especially since two of them have never met!

Both Andy and Dag are easy going and play it by ear types, and I am... not. So today I finally gave into my psycho planner side and started researching restaurants and tourist attractions and plotting out a schedule. Emailed my guys with my must-sees and a very rough schedule. I'm sooo glad I did. There are half a dozen little conflicts where I had been hoping we'd do one thing and one or both of the guys had a different idea. Not a big deal now, but if I'd had to deal with it last minute I'd probably have lost my shit :rolleyes:

As of right now, Dag is going to leave super early on Friday morning to get to Geeky Con, and Andy and I will get there mid afternoon. I can head to the con with Dag for a couple of hours, then we will all meet up for dinner. Dag heads back for more geeking out late night.

Saturday, I have a few gallery/museum/sightseeing things I want to do, and I left it with the guys as "whoever wants to join me is welcome". I'm guessing Dag will do con stuff; Andy may suffer through some of the touristy things with me, or he may find something else to do. Then we have a river boat tour that takes us to a cool beer garden for Saturday dinner, and I'll spend Saturday night with Dag.

Sunday... I started to make more plans, and then I realized I will probably be too exhausted and hungover to do much ;) Maybe hit the last of the con. Maybe brunch.

Having even this rough schedule makes me feel a lot better. I've been hearing, "I hope we lots of time together on the trip!" from both Dag and Andy, and I was starting to really stress about it. Now... I'm open to changes and suggestions, but at least I have a sort-of-plan where everyone gets group time and one on one time.

And anybody who feels like they aren't getting enough Claire-time can suck it up and come to the craft market and art museum with me :p
 
I've been busy so I haven't really been posting but I wanted to chime in and say I feel you on the "always cold" thing. And on the tense muscles after being too cold when sleeping! Nothing makes it more likely for me to wake up with a crick in my neck than if I was cold while I was sleeping! And then it takes days to go away. Ugh.
 
Something I've been meaning to write about for a few days but haven't had time...

There were several threads recently where women mentioned that they don't think poly women are ever truly ok with their husbands falling in love with someone else, or that they would never date a married poly guy because of the possibility of jealousy and drama from his wife. So I've been trying to figure out, am I that wife?

It's strange because there's this total split in my mind. When I read stories here or imagine Andy dating again, I get flurries of panic. But then I remember that my husband already has girlfriends and I love it and it doesn't bug me at all.

:confused:

I think I just assume every woman is a cowgirl until proven otherwise. Or if not quite a cowgirl, someone who will eventually want cohabitation and financial support and kids from my husband. And those are things I don't think I could handle.

Stephanie was in Andy's life long before I was, and I never had any worries that she'd suddenly change her mind and want that stuff with him. Anna-Louise was someone we'd all known for years before she and Andy became close. Both of them are very independent and happily single (well, they both call themselves single but do what folks here call solo-poly). And both have made it clear that if they ever do seek a life partner, they want to be someone's ONLY full blown life partner.

With both of them, I have had zero jealousy and zero competitive feelings. They love Andy and make him happy. That's it. I don't mind that they sometimes need him to rush over in the middle of the night, or jump on a plane to go see a sick family member, or whatever. In fact I'm usually the one shoving him out the door.

But when I imagine some as yet unknown new woman, I freak out. I picture some woman conspiring against me, plotting to take more and more of my husband from me. Wanting to move in, or have Andy stay with her almost every night. Wanting kids with him, or wanting him to help raise the kids she already has. Expecting him to support her and those kids. Basically, I imagine someone pushing and clawing her way into my world, making me miserable and then making me the bad guy for not being happy she's there.

Why? Where does this fear come from? It's never happened to me or to anyone I know (and I know a lot of nonmonagamous people).

Andy and I have always been crystal clear on the few boundaries we have - no one moves in, no kids, no financial entanglements. Of course, those rules are meaningless, really. Either one of us could change our minds. The "big three" as we call them are just mutually agreed upon "if you do this, I will leave you so fast, I'll look like a cartoon blur" boundaries. But what if Andy didn't care? What if he was so crazy for some woman he would let me leave?

It's telling that I imagine this in the context of a scheming, manipulative new partner. Our marriage is solid, and happy, and I can't see Andy ever deciding to just give up on us. But I am afraid of some woman basically pushing me out by creeping past the few hard limits we have. I worry about Andy wanting the living together and kids thing with another partner, and me deciding to leave because the situation makes me miserable. I don't worry about *Andy leaving me*. I do worry about *me leaving Andy* because I don't want to live with another partner of his.

So maybe I am "that wife"... At least when it comes to potential partners I don't know. Guess I should be glad Andy hated online dating ;)
 
Funny how you feel that a woman who would possibly be a potential partner to Andy needs to keep her distance, so to speak, and yet you crave a more close-knit sort of family style dynamic when it comes to Dag (or a bf with whom you have a meaningful relationship). Just pointing that out because it struck me as interesting.
 
nycindie said:
Funny how you feel that a woman who would possibly be a potential partner to Andy needs to keep her distance, so to speak, and yet you crave a more close-knit sort of family style dynamic when it comes to Dag (or a bf with whom you have a meaningful relationship). Just pointing that out because it struck me as interesting.
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Hmm. It's not the family style dynamic that would bother me, exactly. We have that with Stephanie - she's always here at our house, or Andy is at her house. I feel completely welcome in her home and know her mom, her sibs, her friends, her kid, her kid's friends... My dad asks about her every time I talk to him... You get the idea ;) Stephanie and I aren't super close friends, but we ARE family. But, she doesn't want to live with me, or even with Andy, she values her independence too much to live with anyone except her daughter (and even that chafes now that her daughter is an almost-adult).

That's what freaks me out, really, the idea that someone might want to move in, or have Andy pay for part of the cost of their housing somewhere else. I just don't want that level of entwinement with anyone else, for either of us. For a lot of the same reasons I balked at the idea of getting an apartment with Dag. It's too damn complicated, for one.

I also feel like it's virtually impossible for one half of a married couple to mesh their life with a second partner without somehow making their spouse entangled with the other partner, too. Everything Andy and I own is joint, his credit is my credit, if he ties that up with someone irresponsible... :cool: Same thing with cohabiting, I would have to share my house with someone I didn't choose.

I'm fine with Andy's partners getting close -to him or to me - as long as I have a CHOICE about what kind of relationship I want with the person. I can choose to be in Stephanie's life, or not. On the flip side, I'd like Andy to have the CHOICE to get to know Dag or not, rather than have it be permanently off the table. What I *don't* want is for someone to become so entangled in either of our lives that the other HAS to deal with their metamour whether they want to or not.
 
I've been tossing and turning all night trying to figure out what's going on with this fear of unknown partners...

I trust that the boundaries Andy and I have established - no one moves in, no kids, no legal or financial entanglements - are reasonable. I trust myself and Andy to respect these boundaries, and communicate them early and clearly to potential partners.

I do not trust some unknown woman to give a shit about my boundaries, or be honest with Andy about her true wants and needs, or behave well when/if there comes a point that her needs and my boundaries clash. I do not trust her at all. I don't trust that she won't pretend to be ok with our limits and then eventually start throwing tantrums because "it's not fair". I don't trust that she won't resort to gaslighting, manipulation, threats, whatever, to get what she wants.

I trust Andy to stick by me and respect my needs even if something like that happened. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be hellish and awful and a thing much better avoided altogether. I don't want to go to poly hell, even for a short visit.

Where does this distrust come from??? I am fine with the women in my life, would be ok with Andy dating any of them. Why do I have so much suspicion of women I don't know???
 
I used to have the "trust" battle with my mother. I wanted to go out and do stuff when I was a teenager. I didn't even really know what that stuff was, I just wanted to do it because it felt like I was trapped and missing out.

And she used to say to me, "it's not you I don't trust, it's other people."

And that made me so angry because she wouldn't hear me when I said, "well you need to trust me that I'm going to pick people to do stuff with that aren't going to cause me any harm." And I was right. Even as a teen, especially then perhaps, I was so picky about who I associated with.

You trust Andy, but in saying you don't trust potential other women, you're also saying you don't trust Andy and his messy people filter. Yes, some people have insidious behaviour, but they are few and far between. And yeah, the best thing is to avoid poly hell. But it currently seems like you think this is inevitable.

So, why is poly hell inevitable? (treat this question as a thought experiment and delve into it)
 
Evie said:
(treat this question as a thought experiment and delve into it)
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I'm going to try :)

I'll start by saying I don't see poly hell as *inevitable* ... I don't stress at all about Andy's current interests, or most of the potential partners that cross his path. I do have a ton of anxiety around the idea of him dating someone I don't know, who's single or unhappy with their current patnership(s).

Why do I see this imaginary woman as a threat to my marriage and my happiness? Because in her situation, *I* would be a threat.

If I were single and dating a married poly man, I'd absolutely be the girl throwing tantrums and demanding more and more attention. I'd be wailing nonstop that if he really looooved me he'd spend just as much time, energy, and money on me as he did on his wife. I'd want to sleep next to him every night, share every breakfast and dinner, be at every family event, make plans for our retirement together.

When I imagine myself in that relationship, there's Adele playing nonstop, and I'm chugging wine from the bottle, and waving a Modern Bride magazine around, wailing that it's soooo unfair I never get a diamond ring and a white dress.

To be fair to myself, I do have the self awareness to NEVER put myself in that position. If I were single, I wouldn't date anyone who already had other partners. I'd be fine in a monogamous relationship, or I'd date poly guys who were currently single and actively seeking a nesting partner. I just value an entwined life partnership more than anything, and I know that for my own sanity (and that of the people around me!) I need to have that relationship established and healthy before putting energy into any other relationships.

But, that's where the anxiety comes from... I'm projecting how *I* would act onto these imaginary women.

Once I know someone, it's easier for me to see her as her own person, with her own needs and motivations, and not project my shit onto her. I have no issues trusting that Steph and Anna Louise are happy with their lives, and their current relationships with Andy. But the unknown quantity, that can send my anxiety spiraling, because I assume that a woman who's single or unhappily partnered would behave the way I would in her shoes - which is to say, horribly.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
If I were single and dating a married poly man, I'd absolutely be the girl throwing tantrums and demanding more and more attention. I'd be wailing nonstop that if he really looooved me he'd spend just as much time, energy, and money on me as he did on his wife. I'd want to sleep next to him every night, share every breakfast and dinner, be at every family event, make plans for our retirement together.

When I imagine myself in that relationship, there's Adele playing nonstop, and I'm chugging wine from the bottle, and waving a Modern Bride magazine around, wailing that it's soooo unfair I never get a diamond ring and a white dress.

To be fair to myself, I do have the self awareness to NEVER put myself in that position. If I were single, I wouldn't date anyone who already had other partners. I'd be fine in a monogamous relationship, or I'd date poly guys who were currently single and actively seeking a nesting partner. I just value an entwined life partnership more than anything . . .
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OMG, you're cracking me up!!! Waving around a Modern Bride magazine! LOL, my whole life I've always been allergic to any kind of bridal magazine, they seem like such a waste of paper, so that sounds so funny to me.

How old are you and Andy? I ask because there are puh-lenty of single or divorced women out there who are so totally against getting married or living with someone, and who would be perfectly happy seeing a guy once a week or every other week, but they are mostly in their 40s and older, I'd say, settled and happily independent, wrapped up in their careers or traveling - or they're poly and have other lovers, a few FWBs, and yes, a full life that isn't dependent upon being a partner with someone.

Most solo poly women tend to just want an easygoing loving relationship, and not entwinement, but you find that hard to imagine because you want and are very drawn to all that "nesting" stuff (gawd, I even hate that phrase! I never used it when I was married nor thought of my husband and I as nesting together - ick, the concept makes me feel a little pukey, even though we were totally committed to making plans for our future together... the phrases "nesting together" or "nesting partner" make me feel claustrophobic!!!). For myself, personally, if a guy wants to see me more than twice or three times a week, I'd be telling him, "Slow your roll, dude." I need my me time.

I think the only way to not be so afraid of a new unknown single woman potentially coming into Andy's life is to remind yourself that what you would want if you were single is not necessarily what every single woman wants.
 
Nycindie, you are right when you say I'm so drawn to nesting partnerships that I imagine everyone else is too. I have a hard enough time not having that with Dag, even though Andy is everything I could ever want in that role.

nycindie said:
How old are you and Andy? I ask because there are puh-lenty of single or divorced women out there who are so totally against getting married or living with someone, and who would be perfectly happy seeing a guy once a week or every other week, but they are mostly in their 40s and older, I'd say, settled and happily independent, wrapped up in their careers or traveling - or they're poly and have other lovers, a few FWBs, and yes, a full life that isn't dependent upon being a partner with someone.
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I'm 36, Andy is in his early 40s. Both Stephanie and Anna Louise are exactly the type of women you described. They did the marriage thing early, hated it, and now they are divorced, late 40s, kids almost out of the house, and couldn't be happier with their lives. They have boyfriends or lovers when they want, on their own terms :)

I am so grateful that they are in Andy's life. Once I know someone doesn't want to push me out of my nest, so to speak, I really do love the way compersion feels.

I think the only way to not be so afraid of a new unknown single woman potentially coming into Andy's life is to remind yourself that what you would want if you were single is not necessarily what every single woman wants.
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Yes. And, if at all possible, meet my metamours so they become "real" people and not the cowgirl drama queens of my imagination. I honestly only had to meet Anna Louise once before all my worries about her fell away.

(Also, my guilty secret ... I have hundreds of engagement ring and wedding dress pictures saved on my iPad. Even though I hope I'll stay married to Andy forever and never need another ring or dress. They're just so pretty and sparkly :eek:)
 
My day job is in a retail environment that has a wedding registry, and the woman who heads that department is like you. She always dreamed of getting married, always was enthralled with the dresses, flowers, rings, etc., and that is why she is so good at what she does. The couples that come in to work with her "get" that she's for real, and genuinely excited for them. I have learned from my job that the wedding industry makes big, BIG bucks! She just got married last summer herself, and wow, what a shindig it was! Valentine's Day is a big deal for her, while it's a big yawn for me.

I never wanted to get married until I met my ex-husband and just decided to go for it. My ideal wedding would've been no more than 10 or 20 people in a very intimate setting and I was put upon to invite more. We had 60 guests and that stressed me out! I think my aversion to the whole thing comes from a combo of having been raised by a mother who had a dim view of marriage (and so she never encouraged us to look for a husband as the be-all and end-all), my being very independent and an introvert, and reading Ms. Magazine and Cosmo all through my teen years, LOL! Plus I was sexually active at a pretty young age, in the early 1970s, and I didn't want anything to impinge upon my freedom. Of course, I didn't know much about open marriages back then!

If I met a poly guy who told me he had a skittish wife who needed some reassurance that I am not a cowgirl, I'd be happy to meet or talk to her to assuage her fears - as long as I was also reassured that she wasn't going to try and exert control over my relationship. I have no problem with time constraints, since seeing someone once or twice a week is plenty for me, but I'd hate it if a lover's wife expected to dictate what sort of physical activities I could do with her husband, or whether we could fall in love or not, or express our feelings or not. Other than that, I wouldn't care if I didn't get to see him too often. I'm pretty sure that any women who have similar relationship goals as I, and are doing online dating or going to poly events, would state what they're looking for up front.
 
I actually had a very low key wedding (yes this is me defending myself as not a bridezilla :D ) But it was a very "Claire" wedding. We spent almost the whole budget on renting out two beachside B&Bs. One friend made my dress, another took the pictures, another did my hair. We didn't even have a honeymoon, just stayed and had a 3 day celebration with our friends and family. So yeah, my Poly Borg mentality has deep roots ;)

Nycindie, I'm glad to hear you say you'd be ok meeting a nervous wife :) It's really the only thing I ask that I worry could come off as unreasonable. I don't care what Andy does, sexually or otherwise, with his other partners. I don't limit their time together, at all. I'm cool with them joining us socially or not. But I do find that a face to face meeting diffuses sooo much anxiety for me.

My limits are really just... I like my life and I don't want to have to radically change it for a metamour. We have friends over a lot, partners coming over is no different. Andy travels for work, and it doesn't feel any different to me if he's away for a week on business or away for a week with Stephanie. But I don't want to have to share my house... Or move... Or be even tangentially involved in kid-raising, parenting is just not something in my life plan. And even though those are *my* limits, as long as Andy and I are living together, they affect him too.

I guess even in the healthiest poly relationships, having a nesting partner does mean giving up a little bit of freedom.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
I'm going to try :)


If I were single and dating a married poly man, I'd absolutely be the girl throwing tantrums and demanding more and more attention. I'd be wailing nonstop that if he really looooved me he'd spend just as much time, energy, and money on me as he did on his wife. I'd want to sleep next to him every night, share every breakfast and dinner, be at every family event, make plans for our retirement together.
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Thats making a lot of assumptions about single poly women dating poly men. ;)

Maybe you're thinking of a Mono woman, or a woman who expresses their love language with time, or someone co-dependent. But I dont see how every woman is that way, and certainly many of the poly women here aren't. If they are, they tend to date mono men I have noticed because they don't want exactly what you're describing....

For myself, I am with NYCindie, I just got out of a poly-partnered (long term with his partner) relationship, and she very much tried to dictate my time with him. I had no issue he didnt have weekends free, or much time free, that didnt bother me so much as his secretness. What I found hard to deal with was the fact that she wanted to dictate and control our relationship, and the fact that he wasn't treating her the way I would want to be treated long term in a relationship. For example, he hadn't been out on a date with her for 6 months before I went on a three way date with them, him being the hinge of the V, and there were unclear rules adn wants of the couple i didnt know about (Secretly wanting a unicorn), and then him cheating in the end. So, my issue was the overarching communication barriers, how does one keep privacy of a partners life, yet disclose and talk about important information. (Him being a collared submissive- if I had known that at the begining I wouldn't have dated him.)
 
starlight1 said:
Thats making a lot of assumptions about single poly women dating poly men. ;)
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That's why I call it "projecting my shit" :D

I do know that many - probably most - poly women don't have as strong a need as I do for a nesting partnership. Lots of women, mono and poly, like their "me time" and prefer a little space in relationships. Intellectually, I know this. But it's *hard* not to project my own feelings and reactions onto the blank slate of an unknown person.

For myself, I am with NYCindie, I just got out of a poly-partnered (long term with his partner) relationship, and she very much tried to dictate my time with him. I had no issue he didnt have weekends free, or much time free, that didnt bother me so much as his secretness. What I found hard to deal with was the fact that she wanted to dictate and control our relationship, and the fact that he wasn't treating her the way I would want to be treated long term in a relationship. For example, he hadn't been out on a date with her for 6 months before I went on a three way date with them, him being the hinge of the V, and there were unclear rules adn wants of the couple i didnt know about (Secretly wanting a unicorn), and then him cheating in the end. So, my issue was the overarching communication barriers, how does one keep privacy of a partners life, yet disclose and talk about important information. (Him being a collared submissive- if I had known that at the begining I wouldn't have dated him.)
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I'm sorry you had to deal with that mess :( I really don't get why women agree to poly if they want full control over their partners' time and affections.

But I also don't get why the men in these relationships agree to all these bizarre limits and rules :confused: If I had ever tried to tell Andy he could only see Stephanie on certain evenings, he would have told me where to stick it :p

It seems to me like something the hinge should be handling better. Maybe standing up to their partner and saying, "I'm not comfortable being in an open relationship with these restrictions" and hashing stuff out. Or at least own the rule, say "I'm only available Thursdays" as opposed to "my girlfriend only lets me out on Thursdays".

The "evil wife" is really only half the problem in these situations. The other half is the guy being a shitty hinge, letting his wife take the blame for all his bad behavior. The wife or girlfriend may well be a controlling bitch. But the guy is an adult, with the ability - and I would say the responsibility- to tell her he doesn't want to do poly that way. Maybe that means they close the relationship, maybe it means he deals with whatever bitchiness rains down upon him for seeing his girlfriend more than once a week :rolleyes: But seriously, it's not like there's ever a wife holding the guy at gunpoint forcing him to be an asshole.
 
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