It's a Texlahoma Story

Hubby sometimes seems to think we have a hierarchy with him as primary and Woody secondary, but he know I don't see it that way.

Woody sometimes uses "primary" as a synonym for "nesting partner," or the one your life is most entangled with. But we've talked, and we see things the same way: No partner is more important than any other. Just important in different ways.
 
KC43 said:
No partner is more important than any other. Just important in different ways.
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Brutal honesty time ...

I want to feel this way, because it seems like the way any decent human being would feel. But I don't :(

I mean, in the very general, philosophical sense, no one human being is any more important than any other. But in terms of "important to me"? Yes, some people are more important than others in my life. (I can objectively say the life of some random person on another continent whom I've never met is, in absolute terms, just as important as the life of my father. But my father is far more important *to me* than that stranger.)

The root of it is that the different WAYS people are important to me are themselves not of equal value in my life. For example, I personally place a much higher importance on having a nesting partner than having, say, a casual play partner. I value the nesting relationship more than the other. So even if the two partners are both equally wonderful people, I value the nesting partner more, for what he provides in my life.

This is something I wrestle with, constantly... This feeling that it's not right for me to date anyone if I doubt my ability to ever see them as being as important as my husband. I'm not at all closed off to the possibility that I might feel that way someday... I just know from experience that I can love someone and be very close to them and *still* see the relationship as far less important than what I have with Andy.

There's also the reality that I have never had trouble finding friends, or sex partners, or even people who were both those things at once. But I have found exactly one person in my whole life who I was compatible enough with to live with 24/7. One person with whom I could happily plan the rest of my life. So preserving that relationship takes on a unique priority for me.

The irony is that I do a great job of faking perfect poly. I am nothing if not fair when it comes to prioritizing my boyfriend's needs and my husband's needs. The only person who ever gets shortchanged in our V is me. But that doesn't mean I *feel* it deep down inside.

For any fellow geeks here... I can hear Lying Cat from Saga hissing "LYING" at me whenever I try to say that my partners are equally important in my life.
 
I've been wanting to post about this on your blog for some time, when you first started to mention how you feel guilty for not giving Dag the same amount or same quality of attention that you give to Andy, and how you would drop seeing him if Andy needed you. Now you're also talking about their places in your life, not just about the kind of attention they get, but perhaps this will help you anyway. There is a member here who goes by the username SchrodingersCat, and she has written about "relationship triage."

IOW, just like how an emergency room triage nurse determines who gets seen by a doctor first, by order of the severity of their injuries, it's perfectly logical and compassionate to give attention and make time for the person in a relationship based on who needs it most -- and that includes yourself and your needs. Nowhere is it written that all partners in poly arrangements must receive equal treatment. Equal and fair are two different things. Fairness is when everyone gets what they need, but being fair doesn't necessarily mean they all get the same things/treatment/attention in equal measure:

fairness.jpg

(I don't remember who posted the above graphic in a thread here a long time ago, so I had to Google for it, but it illustrates my point nicely)

You are taking care of yourself and your relationships as fairly as you know how, and devote as much energy into them as you have. I hope you can start to let go of the guilt, because feeling guilty doesn't really do much good for anybody.
 
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Exactly what Cyndie said.

Fair and equal are not the same thing. And yes, Andy's role and Dag's role in your life specifically are not equal. Andy fills a lot more spaces in your life than Dag does. That's why Woody refers to nesting partners as "primary" partners--except he doesn't do so in reference to Hubby anymore because I told him it bugs me and makes me feel like he's saying I'm not considering him important.

GFT, I think you and I have different definitions of "important" here. You're looking at it as "Andy is more important than anyone else because he's my husband and we live together and have entangled lives." I look at it as "Hubby has more of a share in my life because we live together and he's my husband and we have entangled lives, but as far as how I *feel*, he and Woody are equally important. I love both of them deeply. I would never be able to choose one over the other. The *reasons* for their importance are different, but the *level* of importance is the same.

I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well, because it's more about feelings than words and I don't know how to translate. Am I making any sense?
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
When you don't go into a relationship with any defined expectations - when you are open to anything from fuck buddies to life partners - it's much harder to know if the relationship is "working". When you have no road map, how do you know if you're moving in the right direction?
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Are both people in the relationship happy, satisfied, fulfilled with the relationship as it stands now? Then it is working.

Sometimes the "right direction" is none - stand in the place where you are.:rolleyes:
 
I love that graphic :D And the idea it represents.

About the guilt... It sounds strange to say it now, what with all my current angst, but I was happily non-monogamous and guilt free for years. I had my husband, my friends, my job, and a boyfriend or two at a time, each of whom I saw about once a week. And it was... Wonderful. Fun. Like having my cake and eating it, too. I didn't think anyone felt neglected, as every guy I dated was in the same situation as I was, married or living with someone and just wanting a close, loving, emotionally supportive friend with benefits.

When I started seeing Dag seriously, and started researching polyamory, that's when the discomfort and guilt and confusion began. I was reading so many things that, in essence, told me I was "doing it wrong". That prioritizing my relationship with my husband over other relationships was a hurtful thing to do. I realized that I had been seeing non monogamy through a lens of couple privilege. It took a lot for me to wrap my head around the idea that someone could value a non entangled type relationship as much as a nesting type relationship. Or that someone could see having multiple partners as a core need, not just a "nice to have".

But even understanding that some people feel that way doesn't make *me* feel that way. All my soul searching has just led me to realize that what I value most in a relationship is the living together, sharing everything, making life plans aspect. Having that is priority number one for me. When a relationship doesn't offer that potential (because we both have too many commitments already to promise that to each other, or because we're not compatible in that way) it just has less value to me than one that does. I'm a warm person, and a loving person, but I'm also at heart a practical, logical person. I don't love one person more than another, but I can make a call about this or that relationship being of more importance in my life.

Reverie wrote something here about how everyone she dates is an adult, and as long as she's honest about what she can give, they can make the informed choice to have or not have a relationship with her. I used to feel that way, I want to feel that way again. But all the "poly hell" type horror stories have made me a little crazy. Seems like every day, here and on other poly sites, there are broken hearted cries for help from people who went into casual or secondary relationships and then wanted more. And the overwhelming response is, of course you fell in love and want more! What an asshole your partner is, for denying you that! Those stories, they make me wonder if I am just playing with fire.

I know I need to let go of the guilt. I just don't know how, exactly. I am honest with Dag. I love him, he's important to me, we are wonderful together. But I also know there's zero chance we will ever be nesting life partners, and having that type of relationship is soooo important to me. There are very important needs I have that our relationship will never meet. I know he gets that, and has many of the same concerns and feelings - a stable home life for his kids is his priority number one, and if I didn't accept that, he'd never have dated me.

For now, I'm just taking a deep breath, and reminding myself that I'm doing the best I can.
 
KC43 said:
GFT, I think you and I have different definitions of "important" here. You're looking at it as "Andy is more important than anyone else because he's my husband and we live together and have entangled lives." I look at it as "Hubby has more of a share in my life because we live together and he's my husband and we have entangled lives, but as far as how I *feel*, he and Woody are equally important. I love both of them deeply. I would never be able to choose one over the other. The *reasons* for their importance are different, but the *level* of importance is the same.
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We may mean different things when we say "important". I'm using it as a proxy for "could I give this up? how much would I lose by giving this up?"

And the truth is, I would grieve - deeply - if Dag disappeared from my life, but I would be ok. I have Andy and my friends for emotional support, and an okc account if I need kinky sex ;) If Andy was gone... God, I would never be completely the same again. I don't know if I could ever find anything that fulfills me the way my relationship with him does. He meets so many vital needs in my life that no one else does. Possibly no one else could.

So could I choose Andy over Dag? Yes, I could. I would, if I had to. If for whatever reason I just could not sustain both relationships without going insane. And fwiw, I would expect - and hope! - that Dag would choose his marriage and stable family life over our relationship, if it came to that.

The weird thing is, it's not "veto power". If Andy actually told me to stop seeing Dag, I'd a) get him checked for a brain tumor and b) drag his ass to counseling because that is NOT how we work. Both while continuing to date Dag. I'm thinking more of what I would do if I just didn't have just the emotional bandwidth for two relationships. So I wouldn't choose Andy, exactly. I would choose *me*, and that would mean choosing the relationship that I need more.

Actual conversation from a few nights ago...

Me: We don't have veto power ...

Andy : I vetoed Tyler [asshole narcissist I dated for waaaay too long]

Me-: No, you said it made you unhappy that I was still dating him, because I cried every time he sent me an email detailing all the ways I was screwing up my life.

Andy: Yeah...

Me: You didn't tell me I had to stop seeing him.

Andy: Well, of course not, you're an adult.

Me: What would you have done if I hadn't stopped seeing him?

Andy: Talked it out. Maybe gone to counseling. Maybe said I couldn't be your comfort person when he hurt you, because it upset me too much. Maybe eventually told you I couldn't stay in a relationship with someone who would set herself up to be hurt over and over by a narcissistic asshole.

Me: Veto is like, Stop seeing him! End of discussion!

Andy: Who the hell stays in a relationship with someone who would say that?

I really do love my husband <3
 
The biggest part of the problem that I see, GFT, is you've let other people define your poly. By reading those books and forum posts and such, you're essentially saying "The way I was doing it for so many years worked, but it was wrong because other people say so."

Fuck that noise, hon. "Other people" aren't you. They don't live your life.

If "couple's privilege" works for you, Andy, and your other partners, then anything anyone else says about couple's privilege is completely irrelevant. "Anyone else" is not involved in your life or your relationships, and therefore nothing they say matters a damn bit.

It only matters if everyone who is INVOLVED is fully informed, fully aware, and fully in agreement.

People online are going to say shit. That's the nature of the internet. If you're letting a bunch of "there, there, you poor little secondary, how dare those meanies expect you not to want more" sway you from what was working perfectly fine before you read it, then that is something I think you might want to work on. Ever hear the saying "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"?

The reality is that yes, if a "poor little secondary" is *not* told right upfront what their partner can give and what the relationship will entail, and then gets fallout and gets screwed over if they fall in love with their partner, that's wrong on the part of the partner who was not fully open and honest to begin with. But if the "poor little secondary" *was* told from the start that they were getting involved with someone who had a life with someone else, who was not going to change that life, and they chose to become involved despite knowing that... then the only one responsible for them being hurt if they decide to change the game they agreed to is *them*. Not the "meanies."

As long as you tell your other partners "Hey, you need to understand that Andy is my husband, we have a full life together, and I am not going to change that or do anything to jeopardize it," you are doing what you need to do. It's the partner's choice whether to get involved with you under those conditions, and if they choose to do so, they are choosing to abide by the conditions and boundaries you have set. If they can't do that, they ought not get involved in the first place; if they don't realize they can't do it until after they're involved, then they either deal with it or they end the relationship. But they made a FULLY INFORMED choice to go along with what you've stated.

Please try not to let other people define you and your relationships. The only people whose opinions of you and your relationships matter are you and the people involved in your relationships. Everyone else is just a bunch of noise that, in my opinion, you need to tune out--and that includes all the opinions I've just given you.
 
As for important, I understand how you're using it. For me, it doesn't have anything to do with giving anything up, because I try not to think in those terms. I'm not giving up a damn thing if I can help it, so why should I think about whether I'd be able to? For me, "important" is "do I value this person and want them as part of my life, and do they fill a role that can only be filled by them?"
 
KC43 said:
The biggest part of the problem that I see, GFT, is you've let other people define your poly. By reading those books and forum posts and such, you're essentially saying "The way I was doing it for so many years worked, but it was wrong because other people say so."
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Yes! In the past I've even had to take time out from reading this forum and any other poly-related stuff because I realized all the opinions I was reading were getting in my way of enjoying the relationships I had at the time. I was getting miffed over some things that weren't even part of the dynamics I had with my lovers back then, or expecting certain things from my relationships that I'd read other people had, and I'd allowed my thoughts about what other polyfolk do cloud my judgement and influence my communications. Ugh. So I had to stay away for a while and remind myself that I do poly my way and that's all I need to remember for it to work for me. I still need a break from it every now and then, even though I'm a Moderator now. Oftentimes I have to pick and choose very carefully which threads I read because it gets to be a real drain on me when there is one train wreck story after another. Most people forget to post the good times, because they're too busy having fun to stop and write about it, you know? So most of what you read here is sturm und drang.

KC43 said:
. . . As long as you tell your other partners "Hey, you need to understand that Andy is my husband, we have a full life together, and I am not going to change that or do anything to jeopardize it," you are doing what you need to do. It's the partner's choice whether to get involved with you under those conditions, and if they choose to do so, they are choosing to abide by the conditions and boundaries you have set. If they can't do that, they ought not get involved in the first place; if they don't realize they can't do it until after they're involved, then they either deal with it or they end the relationship. But they made a FULLY INFORMED choice to go along with what you've stated.
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This is exactly why the first conversation I have with any potential lover who is married or partnered is a fact-finding mission about what sort of agreements and arrangements they have that will affect me. Because I'm a big girl and make my own choices about whom I will get involved, but I base that on information about what their expectations and practices are, as well as whether or not I feel my own personal boundaries will be respected. Some people do poly in a way that is compatible with mine, and some do not. No skin off anyone's nose if I realize it isn't going to work and choose to walk away.

KC43 said:
As for important, I understand how you're using it. For me, it doesn't have anything to do with giving anything up, because I try not to think in those terms. I'm not giving up a damn thing if I can help it, so why should I think about whether I'd be able to? For me, "important" is "do I value this person and want them as part of my life, and do they fill a role that can only be filled by them?"
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For me, in terms of my relationships, the word "important" and "consideration" go hand in hand. Since my separation and divorce, I have no desire for another entangled marriage-like partnership, so no one is in that kind of partner role (and there are definitely people who would say I'm not doing poly "correctly" because of that). So, I look at everyone I get involved with as being equally important to me, but that simply means I will consider their feelings and thoughts about [whatever issue] out of respect for them as human beings and as people with whom I am intimate. However, consideration for their feelings does not mean I have to try to accommodate what everyone wants (least of all at my own expense), nor that I must bend to any unreasonable demands, indulge in any guilt I may have, or put their needs above my own. It just means I listen and consider. That is all. What I need from relationships is to feel respected, valued, and heard, so I try to treat people the same way and do what I can to foster a dynamic where hopefully they will feel respected, valued and heard.

The other aspect of each lover being equally important in my life means that I schedule things on a "first-come, first-served" basis and don't break dates with one person just because someone else is now available or wants my time. However, if there's an emergency or urgent issue with one lover and I've got a date with someone else? Shit, yeah, I'll break it to be with the person who needs my attention more. Relationship triage. This is what works for me. For me. If you're not abusing anyone, you don't have to feel bad about what works for you!
 
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If your version of poly works for you and your partners that is all that matters.

Do not compare yourself to others here. Our version doesn't work for you and guess what that's OK.
 
I really appreciate everyone reminding me that what matters is what works for me and my partners, not what some imaginary poly rule book says :) I have my weird personal reasons for not always trusting my own judgement in these things, which I will try to unpack later, but it's definitely important to remember what to focus on. Whether or not this relationship configuration is working for *us*.

Soooo, an example of where the anxiety comes from...text from Dag last night:

"Wife sleeping, kids in their rooms .... All this time where I'm just sitting around on the weekends ... Wish I could just be with you instead."

I should just take this as a sweet message and not read too deeply into it, I know. But c'mon, when have I ever been able to do that :rolleyes:

Texts like this just trigger all my guilt and anxiety. All my feelings of "not doing enough". Ugh. The fucked up part is, Dag couldn't really bail on his family every weekend to spend it with me, and I don't think he would want to, even if he could. It's just the way he phrases it that confuses me.

It's not like Dag even had a bad day. He went for a hike in the morning and then he and his wife took the kids out for pizza at lunch. And my day was spent at Lowes shopping for appliances, so it's not like I did anything worth being envious about.

But I changed our "date night" Friday to lunch since I was feeling so cruddy. And he invited me to come hang out at one of his gaming things today, but it's like a two hour drive for me and again, feeling severely cruddy. Here I go, looking for reasons to feel guilty. Why? Why why why Claire???

I didn't do my usual "oh me too" when I wrote back ... Just said:

"Aw baby <3 <3 I've just been lazy since I got home too. Going to watch The Martian with Andy :)"

I need to talk with Dag, explain to him how these messages stress me out. I'm nervous about that, though, because I don't want to come across as saying I don't want to hear about his feelings :cool: I'm thinking of something like, "When we check in and talk about our relationship, you say you're really happy with the amount of time we spend together. So when I get messages like these from you, I get confused. I can't tell if you do want more weekend time, or if you're just frustrated in that moment and missing me."

I'm really really terrible at bringing up the tough stuff :confused::confused::confused:
 
Anxiety is a bitch.

Your answer to Dag's "wish you were here" was excellent, in my opinion. "Sorry you're bored/having a hard day/whatever. Looking forward to the next time we're together." End of story. He isn't saying "I want to be with you right this second"; he's saying "I'm thinking about you and looking forward to being with you." Try to see it that way when he says those kinds of things.

On the other hand, if you get stressed out when he says those things, you definitely have the right to be honest about it. "Dag, I love that you think about me so much. When you say you wish you could be with me, maybe you're just telling me you miss me, but I feel stressed and guilty because it makes me think you're saying I don't do enough for you or spend enough time with you. I'd appreciate it, when you're texting me, if you would just say 'I miss you' or 'I'm thinking about you' instead of things like 'I wish I was with you right now', because then I'll understand what you mean and I won't feel guilty or stressed."

You're acknowledging his feelings, you're acknowledging his right to feel that way, but you're also standing up for yourself and your right to feel the way you feel, and to ask for his help in *not* feeling that way because you don't like to feel that way.
 
KC43 said:
I'm half of the whole couple made up of Hubby and me. I'm also half of the whole couple made up of Woody and me. But I am ALSO a whole person in and of myself. Neither Hubby nor Woody "completes" me; they each combine with me to create a larger whole.

Did any of that make sense? I have some brain fog going on, so I may have rambled...
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KC43, every time you say you have brain fog, you deliver some sort of brilliant epiphany :)

I am a whole person. I have an identity as Claire. But I also have an identity as part of a larger whole, as half of the Claire+Andy couple.

I do not feel half of a couple with Dag. Or half of an anything. We are simply two people spending time together, loving each other. There is no unit formed by the two of us. And that's ok.

Could I feel that half-of-a-couple thing with more than one person? I don't think it's unique to Andy for me. I very much felt like half of the Claire+D friendship, when my BFF still lived close by and we did everything together. I had other friendships like that in high school and college, too, where we felt like two halves of a whole.

But that "couple-y" feeling... I only get that when I see someone all the time and our lives and plans and friendships are completely shared. I can't feel it without that.

The thing is... I don't particularly need to feel couple-y with Dag. I'm fine with how things are now. Finding enough time and energy to spend on that relationship to get it anywhere close to my "coupledom" threshold sounds exhausting.

I do think a shit ton of anxiety comes from the way Dag seems to feel that couple thing when I don't. Hmmmm.

Speaking of which, he's apartment hunting again. And... I don't want a joint apartment. If he gets one I'll happily visit :D - and start paying for waaay more of the other stuff we do - but I don't want the legal and financial commitment.

At least I can admit that, now. Instead of making a bunch of confused excuses about laundry and money :rolleyes: I quite simply do not want a joint apartment with Dag - that level of commitment to two relationships at once is more than I can handle at this point.
 
My brain may appear foggier to me than it does to others...

See, as far as I'm concerned, you've now differentiated how you feel about Andy vs. how you feel about Dag--or, presumably, anyone else you might have a relationship with.

To you, being "half of a whole" means having a whole *life* together, not only being a couple. Without all of the day-to-day stuff, combined household, combined finances, etc., you don't feel that it is a whole. So you don't have a "whole" with Dag, because you and he don't have a whole life together, you just have time you spend.

And it's okay to feel that way.

To me, being "half of a whole" doesn't involve all of those things; it only involves the emotions and actions of being in a relationship and therefore being a couple. And for me, that's the only way I really could see it. Even though Hubby and I share a household and finances, we *don't* share all the things you and Andy do. We share a physical living space and the money to pay for it, and that's pretty much it. If it weren't for the fact that we have sex sometimes, and that he gives me a hug and kiss when he happens to wander into the room I'm in, we would essentially just be roommates. We don't share any activities or interests; most of the time, we aren't even in the same room.

With Woody, by contrast, I have the attention, the being in the same room, the shared interests and activities--but we don't share a household or finances. (I've joked with him that next fall after Country leaves for college, since he'll need additional tenants if he's going to keep his house because of some changes that might be coming later this year, he should rent a room to Hubby, and then I could just go back and forth in the hall to be with one or the other instead of officially living with Hubby and having to drive to see Woody. Except that I'm not entirely joking...)

So for me, being "half of a whole" the way you perceive it would mean that I'm not part of any whole at all, other than being whole in and of myself. But for *you*, your way of perceiving it works.

And now you've been able to clarify for yourself that you don't *want* the "shared everything" type of whole with Dag, which sounds like it's been a helpful realization, so awesome!
 
So for a fun change I am going to quit bitching about Dag and bitch about Andy :p Well, not bitch. To be honest Andy and I have been together approximately forever and we have pretty much ironed out all the issues in our relationship. But I have been sleeping on the sofa for the past few nights...

Because our bedroom is FREEZING.

I am one of those people who is ALWAYS cold. My hands and feet are like ice cubes, even in the summer. I'm not super skinny or anything, my BMI and body fat are both in the normal range. I'm just COLD. Maybe because I run and yoga so much? My pulse/blood pressure/respiration rate are so low they confuse nurses. Or maybe it's just genetic, my dad is always cold too.

Andy, on the other hand, is a big bear of a guy who is always hot. Right now, the thermostat is set to 67, and he's wearing a t shirt. I'm bundled in long sleeved shirt, sweater, and fleece jacket; my feet are cold even with two pairs of socks. This is our settled daytime compromise temperature.

At night, though, all bets are off. I turn the temp up to 68 before bed. He gets up after I'm asleep and turns it down to 65. I wake up frozen and get an extra blanket. The whole bed heats up too much for him and he can't sleep :( After a few sleepless nights for him, I relent and bundle up for bed in three layers of clothes, deal with the window open to the 20 something air and that damn ceiling fan running all night. And I sleep, but I wake up with whole body muscle cramps from being curled in a tight little ball all night.

Two nights ago, I gave up and slept on the sofa. BLISS. It's a different hvac zone from the bedroom so I can turn up the temperature. And no evil ceiling fan turning my nose to ice. It's amazing how much more energy I have after two nights of warm sleep. I get up with my alarm instead of hitting snooz three times. I've been running better. I'm not feeling the urge to take power naps at traffic lights.

But (there's always a but:rolleyes:) Andy is hurt that I don't want to sleep next to him. Even though by sleep next to him, he means sleep on the other side of the pillow wall he erects to keep me from cuddling up to his body heat. He says he misses me. He says he sleeps better, in general, when I'm there.

I'm torn. I miss sharing a bed, too. And I hate feeling like one of those old couples with separate rooms. But... It's soooo coooold in that room :(
 
Two words ..... electric blanket. Just a twin sized one you can bundle yourself up in at night yet share a bed.
 
Or a heated mattress pad. Ours has two zones so we can each set it at the temperature we want (sounds like for you Andy would have it off and you'd have it set at 20).
 
Ok now I have to share my super embarrassing electric blanket phobia ...

The last time I had one was as a little kid, and it was an ancient piece of shit fire hazard of a thing, the kind where parts burned you and parts didn't heat at all :cool: Every night my mom would tell me over and over not to pee the bed because I'd electrocute myself :eek: I have no idea why she worried about that since I never wet the bed anyway... But damn I was TERRIFIED. I didn't sleep at all, just got up and went to the bathroom every five minutes.

So whenever someone suggests an electric blanket, this little voice in my head goes, but what if I pee the bed tho??? :eek:
 
Slept in our room with Andy last night... Woke up freezing at 3:30 am. Went down to the family room to sleep there, but the dogs were all "Mom's up!!!" and wanting food and attention (and half the sofa). Andy comes through around 7, I'm complaining, and he says, "You didn't look cold when I came to bed." :rolleyes:

He had lunch with his friend Anna-Louise yesterday. There used to be something going on there but he hadn't seen her in months. She was dating a monogamous guy pretty seriously but I guess he wanted to get married and she bailed. I'm glad to hear it because Anna-Louise cannot do monogamy. Not sexual monogamy, at least. She just... Fucks first and decides later whether it was a good idea.

(One time years ago, when Andy and Anna-Louise worked together, he sent her out to get take-out because they were working late on a project. She came back 3 hours later with cold food because she met a couple guys at the restaurant and decided to have some sexy fun before dinner. That is Anna-Louise in a nutshell.)

So I'm glad she made a good choice for herself. But I'm a teeny bit nervous it means she and Andy will be spending more time together. I like her fine, although I don't get what he sees in her... she's not unattractive but she always has too much makeup and her clothes are somehow simultaneously too tight and too loose. Ack, I'm being all snotty and judgy. Anyway, I'm ok with them being fwb or dating or ... Whatever. (I'm really pretty DADT when it comes to Andy's sexual relationships. Tell me if there's something health related I need to know, otherwise just share the friend stuff and relationship stuff and leave the sex stuff unsaid.)

But Stephanie HATES Anna-Louise. She says it's because back when Anna-Louise was married, she cheated on her then-husband, who is a friend of Stephanie's. I hear that - no question Anna-Louise behaved very badly - but the ex husband has gotten over it and they are great friends now. Pretty much everyone else let it go when he did. I think there's a lot of Andy-related jealousy Stephanie won't own up to that colors her view of Anna-Louise.

I'm wary of the drama potential. On the other hand - not my circus, not my monkeys ;)
 
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