It's a Texlahoma Story
- Thread starter GirlFromTexlahoma
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Thank you, Reverie! I'm actually going to copy some of your points and write them someplace I can look at them every day. Cheesy but sometimes doing that helps me, when I read something often enough I internalize it better.
I was cool with the making out... But it seemed off to me to do that and then be all, "it wasn't a date lolol". Eh, who knows. Next!
Yeah, I can see how my reaction to leaving a DADT situation seems really backwards! Instead of craving openness and friendship and kitchen table poly, I'm just running from it.
It's one of those times where I don't know exactly ~why~ I feel what I feel, but I know that even the thought of having dating a partnered guy induces panic in me right now. And I'd rather take the time to sort through those anxieties NOW, before I try to actually do it. Even if it takes months, or years, that's ok. I can focus on my life with Andy, date single guys if any come along, and not push myself to date partnered men until I'm comfortable.
I will say that a great metamour relationship - what I have with Steph, for example - still appeals to me. We are friendly but not close, we can deal with each other directly with no problems but don't usually bother, we respect each other's space and relationship but have fun when we see each other at events.
But I don't feel up to forging that kind of relationship with a meta right now. My boundaries are so fuzzy, and I'm so anxious about voicing them. I'm still stuck in the "do I have a right to need this?" place on so many things. I don't trust myself to stand up for myself right now. I don't trust myself to draw boundaries, or stick to them, or say "no, I disagree".
On my date(??) with Renaissance, he was showing me picture after picture of his fiancé and her work. Then over the weekend, he sent a bunch of pics of them out at an event. The whole thing bothered me - partly because I had really hoped to just get to know HIM first, partly because it made me worry he was showing her random pictures of me without asking. But I didn't say anything, just nodded and smiled and replied "oh you guys look so cute great pic".
If I'm going to date someone with a wife/serious girlfriend, I need to be able to speak up about that shit. Even if it's just to say, hey, I wanted this night to be about us, not what your fiancé did this week. If I can't do that, I'm just not ready to handle having a new metamour.
I was cool with the making out... But it seemed off to me to do that and then be all, "it wasn't a date lolol". Eh, who knows. Next!
Yeah, I can see how my reaction to leaving a DADT situation seems really backwards! Instead of craving openness and friendship and kitchen table poly, I'm just running from it.
It's one of those times where I don't know exactly ~why~ I feel what I feel, but I know that even the thought of having dating a partnered guy induces panic in me right now. And I'd rather take the time to sort through those anxieties NOW, before I try to actually do it. Even if it takes months, or years, that's ok. I can focus on my life with Andy, date single guys if any come along, and not push myself to date partnered men until I'm comfortable.
I will say that a great metamour relationship - what I have with Steph, for example - still appeals to me. We are friendly but not close, we can deal with each other directly with no problems but don't usually bother, we respect each other's space and relationship but have fun when we see each other at events.
But I don't feel up to forging that kind of relationship with a meta right now. My boundaries are so fuzzy, and I'm so anxious about voicing them. I'm still stuck in the "do I have a right to need this?" place on so many things. I don't trust myself to stand up for myself right now. I don't trust myself to draw boundaries, or stick to them, or say "no, I disagree".
On my date(?
?) with Renaissance, he was showing me picture after picture of his fiancé and her work. Then over the weekend, he sent a bunch of pics of them out at an event. The whole thing bothered me - partly because I had really hoped to just get to know HIM first, partly because it made me worry he was showing her random pictures of me without asking. But I didn't say anything, just nodded and smiled and replied "oh you guys look so cute great pic". If I'm going to date someone with a wife/serious girlfriend, I need to be able to speak up about that shit. Even if it's just to say, hey, I wanted this night to be about us, not what your fiancé did this week. If I can't do that, I'm just not ready to handle having a new metamour.
Yeah, you know, I think you are well rid of Ren boy. Making you handcuffs to present on a first date? Showing you a crap ton of pix of his fiancee on the date? Making out madly and then denying it was even a date???
Block, ignore. NEXT!
Reverie's list was great and your idea to print it and see it all the time is also great!
No more smiling and nodding and shoving down your discomforts!
I've never been a "people pleaser." Somehow I didn't catch that virus from my family. I think because my mom was that way with my dad, and I caught on to it early on. My sister and I even teasingly used to call her out on it, call her a martyr. So, I went the other way. I can be empathetic, caring, nurturing to others. If someone tells me they have a backache, my hands automatically go out to massage them. But I am just as empathetic, caring and nurturing to myself, because, guess what? I am a person too, just as deserving of respect and care as anyone else.
Block, ignore. NEXT!
Reverie's list was great and your idea to print it and see it all the time is also great!
No more smiling and nodding and shoving down your discomforts!
I've never been a "people pleaser." Somehow I didn't catch that virus from my family. I think because my mom was that way with my dad, and I caught on to it early on. My sister and I even teasingly used to call her out on it, call her a martyr. So, I went the other way. I can be empathetic, caring, nurturing to others. If someone tells me they have a backache, my hands automatically go out to massage them. But I am just as empathetic, caring and nurturing to myself, because, guess what? I am a person too, just as deserving of respect and care as anyone else.
Spork
Active member
Hm. Claire, I have thoughts about this "phantom metamour anxiety."
So there was the DADT thing, where you didn't know the meta, she was just this phantom menace in the background. A person, a figure, who was there but you never met, who had the ability to make you feel less. He might be comparing the two of you, giving her more consideration, and treating you like the side chick. Not cool.
I think we can fairly establish that being treated in a slutty or "side chick" kind of way is just not for you anyways. You need to feel respected in your relationships, even if you're not their "primary" you need to be treated with the value that one would treat a primary, and most certainly not just their fun lil piece on the side. So there is that.
Renn guy was clearly not behaving like a gentleman on that date, and the way he presented his fiancee to you in pictures and made a big thing of that before the two of you had a chance to bond, and then too the way he pushed things to a sexual place, and then when you put out the "whoa, boy" he's all like "but you'll still write naughty things to me, yes?" Um, NO. The whole "that wasn't even a date" business, that's just saving face. That's the "Oh, I was only joking" when he wasn't joking but you didn't respond the way he wanted. Pshh...I roll my eyes in thine general direction. Good day, sir, I say GOOD DAY.
And then we have this new thing where, in contemplating dating, ALL unknown people are Phantoms. Phantom dates, and their phantom partners. Or not. You're contemplating possibilities, moving the little phantoms around on the imaginary game board and wondering what this or that might look like. And since you DON'T know any of these people, there are certain scariness factors that make you kinda want to hold back. Which is fine...hold back for a time. Figure out your own bill of rights. And figure out what of the things you think you really need you might in fact be flexible on. Contemplate your stuff a bit.
But I'd say don't be scared of the phantoms. Sure there's gonna be the swings and the misses. But I think that ultimately the rewards can be worth the risks. Personally, in your shoes, I'd be interested in meeting couples, as friends, as people, first...not with an eye to dating them both, but with the thinking of banishing the phantom. Or telling a partnered man that you'd really like to meet his SO as soon as possible, because it's important to you, to know that you will be respected and won't be a secret, right from the get-go. And I feel like once you've got that out of the way, she won't be that unknown person anymore, she won't be a phantom. She'll be this real, actual, nice human being that when you hear that your lover and her did a fun thing you can smile and imagine it and be happy for them both. Not compare yourself, and your relationship, to some impossible person in your imagination and wonder uncomfortable things.
I might be close to the mark or way, way off...but I think it is a thing worth contemplating? Maybe in thinking about why this notion does NOT fit, you'll get closer to a working theory... *shrug* ...??
So there was the DADT thing, where you didn't know the meta, she was just this phantom menace in the background. A person, a figure, who was there but you never met, who had the ability to make you feel less. He might be comparing the two of you, giving her more consideration, and treating you like the side chick. Not cool.
I think we can fairly establish that being treated in a slutty or "side chick" kind of way is just not for you anyways. You need to feel respected in your relationships, even if you're not their "primary" you need to be treated with the value that one would treat a primary, and most certainly not just their fun lil piece on the side. So there is that.
Renn guy was clearly not behaving like a gentleman on that date, and the way he presented his fiancee to you in pictures and made a big thing of that before the two of you had a chance to bond, and then too the way he pushed things to a sexual place, and then when you put out the "whoa, boy" he's all like "but you'll still write naughty things to me, yes?" Um, NO. The whole "that wasn't even a date" business, that's just saving face. That's the "Oh, I was only joking" when he wasn't joking but you didn't respond the way he wanted. Pshh...I roll my eyes in thine general direction. Good day, sir, I say GOOD DAY.
And then we have this new thing where, in contemplating dating, ALL unknown people are Phantoms. Phantom dates, and their phantom partners. Or not. You're contemplating possibilities, moving the little phantoms around on the imaginary game board and wondering what this or that might look like. And since you DON'T know any of these people, there are certain scariness factors that make you kinda want to hold back. Which is fine...hold back for a time. Figure out your own bill of rights. And figure out what of the things you think you really need you might in fact be flexible on. Contemplate your stuff a bit.
But I'd say don't be scared of the phantoms. Sure there's gonna be the swings and the misses. But I think that ultimately the rewards can be worth the risks. Personally, in your shoes, I'd be interested in meeting couples, as friends, as people, first...not with an eye to dating them both, but with the thinking of banishing the phantom. Or telling a partnered man that you'd really like to meet his SO as soon as possible, because it's important to you, to know that you will be respected and won't be a secret, right from the get-go. And I feel like once you've got that out of the way, she won't be that unknown person anymore, she won't be a phantom. She'll be this real, actual, nice human being that when you hear that your lover and her did a fun thing you can smile and imagine it and be happy for them both. Not compare yourself, and your relationship, to some impossible person in your imagination and wonder uncomfortable things.
I might be close to the mark or way, way off...but I think it is a thing worth contemplating? Maybe in thinking about why this notion does NOT fit, you'll get closer to a working theory... *shrug* ...??
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
And now, we interrupt your regularly scheduled whining for brief talk about "crazy"...
I saw this word called out as inappropriate on another blog, and I realized that I use it quite a bit to describe my bio family. What's ironic is that I don't use it in place of "mentally ill", I actually use it to avoid speaking of my family in terms of mental illness. While many of them probably did/do have mental health issues, none have ever sought treatment or been diagnosed. More to the point, their issues went waaaay beyond anything the dsm could cover.
Here are some things I think of as mental illness:
My anxiety and panic attacks
Andy's seasonal depressions
My father in laws alcoholism
My dad's ptsd
My friend's severe depression and suicidal ideation
My other friends debilitating PMDD
Etc
Here are some childhood memories:
My uncle who poured gasoline around the perimeter of our house and stood outside lighting matches and screaming incoherently
My grandfather sitting at the window all night, pointing a loaded shotgun at him, just in case tonight was the night he actually tried to burn down the house for real
My uncle who sat in the hallway all night and threw knives at my closed bedroom door
My grandmother telling me to just sleep under the bed
The uncle who let gerbils live in his beard and never wore anything besides an untied bathrobe
My mom telling me to never be alone with him, but to be polite to him
The cousin who broke into his in-laws house with a gun and tried to kill his kid, his estranged wife, and her parents
The relief I felt that his father in law shot him instead
The cousin who thought Highlander was real and roamed the woods at night searching for immortals to behead. With a real sword.
Everyone ignoring this because he was good at chess
The cousin who dressed like Hitler, complete with hat and mustache, every damn day for two years, despite being half Jewish
Everyone ignoring this because it seemed harmless compared to what the rest of the family was up to
I could keep going - haven't even covered my aunts yet! - but you get the idea.
Somehow "crazy" seems to be the only word that truly conveys what growing up in this family was like. Saying "mental illness" just does not quite get there. But I do understand that "crazy" is a loaded word, so ... Suggestions? I'm thinking "terrible, horrible, no good, very bad", but that's a pain in the ass to type!
I saw this word called out as inappropriate on another blog, and I realized that I use it quite a bit to describe my bio family. What's ironic is that I don't use it in place of "mentally ill", I actually use it to avoid speaking of my family in terms of mental illness. While many of them probably did/do have mental health issues, none have ever sought treatment or been diagnosed. More to the point, their issues went waaaay beyond anything the dsm could cover.
Here are some things I think of as mental illness:
My anxiety and panic attacks
Andy's seasonal depressions
My father in laws alcoholism
My dad's ptsd
My friend's severe depression and suicidal ideation
My other friends debilitating PMDD
Etc
Here are some childhood memories:
My uncle who poured gasoline around the perimeter of our house and stood outside lighting matches and screaming incoherently
My grandfather sitting at the window all night, pointing a loaded shotgun at him, just in case tonight was the night he actually tried to burn down the house for real
My uncle who sat in the hallway all night and threw knives at my closed bedroom door
My grandmother telling me to just sleep under the bed
The uncle who let gerbils live in his beard and never wore anything besides an untied bathrobe
My mom telling me to never be alone with him, but to be polite to him
The cousin who broke into his in-laws house with a gun and tried to kill his kid, his estranged wife, and her parents
The relief I felt that his father in law shot him instead
The cousin who thought Highlander was real and roamed the woods at night searching for immortals to behead. With a real sword.
Everyone ignoring this because he was good at chess
The cousin who dressed like Hitler, complete with hat and mustache, every damn day for two years, despite being half Jewish
Everyone ignoring this because it seemed harmless compared to what the rest of the family was up to
I could keep going - haven't even covered my aunts yet! - but you get the idea.
Somehow "crazy" seems to be the only word that truly conveys what growing up in this family was like. Saying "mental illness" just does not quite get there. But I do understand that "crazy" is a loaded word, so ... Suggestions? I'm thinking "terrible, horrible, no good, very bad", but that's a pain in the ass to type!
GFT, I think you saw that on my blog, or at least I said something on my blog about the word "crazy." I was specifically ranting against it being used to describe people with diagnosed mental illnesses, though, and particularly when used in conjunction with the word "dangerous."
I have no problem with the word "crazy" in general, any more than I have a problem with the word "dangerous." I only have a problem when someone is using the word as an identification of anyone who says they have a mental illness. (I have the same problem with the word "insane" in that context.) But for something like the way you're describing your family... I don't think any word other than "crazy" would work!
However, if you were saying something like "My crazy uncle with PTSD tried to burn down our house"... *that* I would have a problem with.
I have no problem with the word "crazy" in general, any more than I have a problem with the word "dangerous." I only have a problem when someone is using the word as an identification of anyone who says they have a mental illness. (I have the same problem with the word "insane" in that context.) But for something like the way you're describing your family... I don't think any word other than "crazy" would work!
However, if you were saying something like "My crazy uncle with PTSD tried to burn down our house"... *that* I would have a problem with.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Andy says that calling my family crazy is an insult to crazy people everywhere
Seriously, though, I do feel it's kind of insulting to people with mental illness to lump them in the same category with my relatives.
Especially because I have always thought of almost all mental illness as falling on a spectrum, with most of us showing some features of anxiety, mood disorder, adhd, etc, or some personality disorder, at points in our lives. Or all of the above, read the dsm and you'll see yourself pretty frequently lol. When I worked with parents directly instead of kids, most had some features of mental illness. I generally made decisions on where/whether to refer them to mental health help based on the "subjective distress" and "impairment in functioning" criteria.
My family, though... Batshit motherfucking crazy seems the best diagnosis.
I don't talk to any of them anymore, except my dad, who has moved clear across the country and also avoids the rest of them. The last time I spent any time with them was about ten years ago. I managed to displease my aunt, I still don't know how, and she started calling the police about me every day. First she said I stole her painkillers. Then that I hacked her bank account and stole money. Finally she accused me of trying to poison my grandmother with my dog's arthritis meds. She has a loooong history of shooting at her husband - she's either not actually trying to hit him or a bad shot, so there are just lots of holes in her walls - I did not sleep well during that period!
Anyway, I have been told other places as well that "crazy" is an unkind word, and I just wanted to clear up the context. I don't use it lightly. Only to describe my family. And Donald Trump.
powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
Personally, as someone with bipolar disorder, I think the word "crazy" is the only truly apt word you could use in those two instances!
AutumnLeaves
New member
As someone who suffers from mental illness and is a huge social justice warrior who hates ableist language and the stigma against people with mental health problems (which seems to be the vast majority of people I know!) ...
I have nothing against the world 'crazy.' In my mind, it's synonymous with irrational, and it doesn't actually call out people with mental illnesses, but rather calls out irrational behavior. While searching for other words that mean 'crazy' while trying to convey the same concept is admirable, I really do think crazy is the word that applies to those scenarios. But if you really want another phrase, I'd go with "dangerous and irrational."
I have nothing against the world 'crazy.' In my mind, it's synonymous with irrational, and it doesn't actually call out people with mental illnesses, but rather calls out irrational behavior. While searching for other words that mean 'crazy' while trying to convey the same concept is admirable, I really do think crazy is the word that applies to those scenarios. But if you really want another phrase, I'd go with "dangerous and irrational."
PinkPig
Well-known member
ITA with this. GFT, I also think, even if you choose to call your relatives 'dangerous and irrational' or some other term, there's no question in my mind that their actions were crazy. I'm sorry that you grew up that way
IndieSolo
Active member
I have to say, though, that people aren't just crazy for no reason. Unless it's due to drugs, it's usually a mental illness. In the case of someone with delusions, who dresses up as Hitler or believes they are someone else, how would anyone say that is not a mental illness?
There is a wide range of mental illness. So, I don't quite understand why people with certain mental illnesses object to the word crazy being used when they are so many kinds of mental illnesses and crazy can definitely apply to some of them. I admit, there are all kinds of disorders that I personally do not even think of as mental illness, because they are rather mild compared to the severe mental illness in my family. Depression or PTSD is vastly different from schizophrenia, for example.
One of my close relatives was a paranoid schizophrenic - complete with auditory and visual hallucinations, extreme paranoia, and delusional thinking. It was severe - all mirrors and shiny surfaces, and especially the toaster, had to be covered with a towel because they believed that's how certain people were spying on them. One example of many. That relative also was diagnosed with manic depression (now known as bipolar), and in later years became agoraphobic. The schizophrenia, of course, never went away. I am sorry, but their behavior was crazy. The atmosphere of their home life was crazy. When off their meds, they were very crazy! This is someone I dearly loved and had a great deal of compassion for, but I have no qualms using that word.
There is a wide range of mental illness. So, I don't quite understand why people with certain mental illnesses object to the word crazy being used when they are so many kinds of mental illnesses and crazy can definitely apply to some of them. I admit, there are all kinds of disorders that I personally do not even think of as mental illness, because they are rather mild compared to the severe mental illness in my family. Depression or PTSD is vastly different from schizophrenia, for example.
One of my close relatives was a paranoid schizophrenic - complete with auditory and visual hallucinations, extreme paranoia, and delusional thinking. It was severe - all mirrors and shiny surfaces, and especially the toaster, had to be covered with a towel because they believed that's how certain people were spying on them. One example of many. That relative also was diagnosed with manic depression (now known as bipolar), and in later years became agoraphobic. The schizophrenia, of course, never went away. I am sorry, but their behavior was crazy. The atmosphere of their home life was crazy. When off their meds, they were very crazy! This is someone I dearly loved and had a great deal of compassion for, but I have no qualms using that word.
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Andy and I are up at the lake for the long weekend. It's finally cooling off!!! I've spent most of the past two days hiking with the dogs and reading on the porch. And thinking.
Thinking about Dag, and why it all fell apart. About my fear of the Phantom Metamour. About how it's so easy to handle poly with Andy, and so hard with everyone else.
It's so easy to blame Dag's DADT situation for all our problems, but... Like most easy answers, it oversimplifies things. The DADT didn't bug me at all for a long time. And even when it stirred up issues - me feeling like a side-chick, Dag not being able to plan time with me and stick to it - those were things I was willing to work through. Ironically, the last straw wasn't too little sharing, it was too much - those damn birthday pictures, followed by a weekend of family getaway pictures.
With that in mind, I thought about my weird metamour fears. I'm not bothered by the idea of meeting metamours, or seeing them socially, or even being friends with them if we hit it off. But I HATE hearing about them from my partners. It triggers all kinds of comparing and jealousy and nasty emotions in me.
When I don't know much about my partners' other relationships, I'm a compersion machine. She makes you happy, she makes me happy. Let's have all the happy. All the love, all the support, all the sex. The more the merrier. Start sharing too many details, though, and I lose it.
With Andy, I know his friend girls, I know a lot about them as people, but I don't know much at all about the workings of their relationships with Andy. Andy will be texting Steph for hours most nights, and I have no idea what they say. I never see any pictures of the two of them except a few he has up around the house and what they post on Facebook. I know he says "I love you" to both her and Anna-Louise, but I don't know when they started.
I like that level of knowing. I don't want to hear all their pet names and mushy moments. I don't want to listen to him talk endlessly about how beautiful and smart and generally awesome they are. I don't want them texting me pics of their dates. (***This one is a big oops for me, because I know I've been guilty of sending too many date pictures to Andy. He says he enjoys it but I will have to revisit.***) I really feel like their relationships are none of my damn business. And honestly, the few times Andy has over shared, it has hurt. In a "I don't know why you would tell me this, except to deliberately make me feel jealous and insecure" way.
What works for me:
"How was your night?"
"It was fun! We went to sushi. Steph hates her new boss. Sounds like a nightmare."
"Ugh, that sucks. It's that lady from ****, right? Tell her I'm sorry!"
And with Andy, I feel good about my ability to limit sharing to that level. But with boyfriends? I feel like I have to listen to ... whatever... to be a supportive partner.
To be cont
Thinking about Dag, and why it all fell apart. About my fear of the Phantom Metamour. About how it's so easy to handle poly with Andy, and so hard with everyone else.
It's so easy to blame Dag's DADT situation for all our problems, but... Like most easy answers, it oversimplifies things. The DADT didn't bug me at all for a long time. And even when it stirred up issues - me feeling like a side-chick, Dag not being able to plan time with me and stick to it - those were things I was willing to work through. Ironically, the last straw wasn't too little sharing, it was too much - those damn birthday pictures, followed by a weekend of family getaway pictures.
With that in mind, I thought about my weird metamour fears. I'm not bothered by the idea of meeting metamours, or seeing them socially, or even being friends with them if we hit it off. But I HATE hearing about them from my partners. It triggers all kinds of comparing and jealousy and nasty emotions in me.
When I don't know much about my partners' other relationships, I'm a compersion machine. She makes you happy, she makes me happy. Let's have all the happy. All the love, all the support, all the sex. The more the merrier. Start sharing too many details, though, and I lose it.
With Andy, I know his friend girls, I know a lot about them as people, but I don't know much at all about the workings of their relationships with Andy. Andy will be texting Steph for hours most nights, and I have no idea what they say. I never see any pictures of the two of them except a few he has up around the house and what they post on Facebook. I know he says "I love you" to both her and Anna-Louise, but I don't know when they started.
I like that level of knowing. I don't want to hear all their pet names and mushy moments. I don't want to listen to him talk endlessly about how beautiful and smart and generally awesome they are. I don't want them texting me pics of their dates. (***This one is a big oops for me, because I know I've been guilty of sending too many date pictures to Andy. He says he enjoys it but I will have to revisit.***) I really feel like their relationships are none of my damn business. And honestly, the few times Andy has over shared, it has hurt. In a "I don't know why you would tell me this, except to deliberately make me feel jealous and insecure" way.
What works for me:
"How was your night?"
"It was fun! We went to sushi. Steph hates her new boss. Sounds like a nightmare."
"Ugh, that sucks. It's that lady from ****, right? Tell her I'm sorry!"
And with Andy, I feel good about my ability to limit sharing to that level. But with boyfriends? I feel like I have to listen to ... whatever... to be a supportive partner.
To be cont
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Cont.
And then there's the flip side - how much information about our relationship is a boyfriend going to share with his other partner(s)???
In an ideal world, I'd love the answer to be "very little". "There's this girl, her name is Claire, I'm dating her and sleeping with her"... and that's it. If I meet the other partner, I can get to know them on my own, share as little or as much about myself with them as I choose. But is that realistic? In my experience, no. People share a lot with their partners without even thinking about it. And nesting/primary/spouses tend to feel like they have a "right" to certain information about new partners and new relationships.
Andy talks to his friend girls about me... But I completely 100% trust him to protect my privacy. They know I date other guys, they know Andy and I still do limited sexual things together, but they don't get a play by play of my sex life. They know I have anxiety and take antidepressants - but he asked before sharing that information, it wasn't like he saw them as having a right to know. And if I have a shit day and cry like a baby for hours, I don't worry for a minute that Andy will blab to his friend girls about it.
Right now I'm just feeling like I'm too private a person to do poly well. I don't want metas knowing about my sex life, my anxiety issues, my weird life history, my silly habits, any of it. But I don't feel like it's fair to ask a partner to keep secrets, either.
A lot of my anxieties about metamours are things that I can conquer, with a little practice and a lot of courage. I can learn to say no to more metamour contact than I'd like. I can learn to ignore metas who think they have the right to call at 3am or demand sit-downs to hash out non existent problems - and leave any relationship where my right to do those things is questioned. I manage those boundaries just fine with Andy, so with practice, I can do the same with other guys.
What's harder is the issues of one relationship spilling over into another. Asking a partner to stfu about his wife seems perilously close to demanding a DADT. And it's certainly not being supportive and enthusiastic of his whole life. Asking a partner not to talk about me to his girlfriend seems like me making rules for their relationship. Who am I to tell anyone what they can and can't discuss with a partner. That's between them. I think. Ugh.
Boundaries. Boundaries are hard, y'all.
It really doesn't help that every. single. poly. guy. on okcupid has to tell me in the first few messages that he and his wife have NO SECRETS. And also that she is the love of his life, the most beautiful woman in the world, and an amazingly generous partner for exploring poly with him.
Seriously, can't you dudes ask about my day without adding "also I love my wife and she will always come first!!!"
And then there's the flip side - how much information about our relationship is a boyfriend going to share with his other partner(s)???
In an ideal world, I'd love the answer to be "very little". "There's this girl, her name is Claire, I'm dating her and sleeping with her"... and that's it. If I meet the other partner, I can get to know them on my own, share as little or as much about myself with them as I choose. But is that realistic? In my experience, no. People share a lot with their partners without even thinking about it. And nesting/primary/spouses tend to feel like they have a "right" to certain information about new partners and new relationships.
Andy talks to his friend girls about me... But I completely 100% trust him to protect my privacy. They know I date other guys, they know Andy and I still do limited sexual things together, but they don't get a play by play of my sex life. They know I have anxiety and take antidepressants - but he asked before sharing that information, it wasn't like he saw them as having a right to know. And if I have a shit day and cry like a baby for hours, I don't worry for a minute that Andy will blab to his friend girls about it.
Right now I'm just feeling like I'm too private a person to do poly well. I don't want metas knowing about my sex life, my anxiety issues, my weird life history, my silly habits, any of it. But I don't feel like it's fair to ask a partner to keep secrets, either.
A lot of my anxieties about metamours are things that I can conquer, with a little practice and a lot of courage. I can learn to say no to more metamour contact than I'd like. I can learn to ignore metas who think they have the right to call at 3am or demand sit-downs to hash out non existent problems - and leave any relationship where my right to do those things is questioned. I manage those boundaries just fine with Andy, so with practice, I can do the same with other guys.
What's harder is the issues of one relationship spilling over into another. Asking a partner to stfu about his wife seems perilously close to demanding a DADT. And it's certainly not being supportive and enthusiastic of his whole life. Asking a partner not to talk about me to his girlfriend seems like me making rules for their relationship. Who am I to tell anyone what they can and can't discuss with a partner. That's between them. I think. Ugh.
Boundaries. Boundaries are hard, y'all.
It really doesn't help that every. single. poly. guy. on okcupid has to tell me in the first few messages that he and his wife have NO SECRETS. And also that she is the love of his life, the most beautiful woman in the world, and an amazingly generous partner for exploring poly with him.
Seriously, can't you dudes ask about my day without adding "also I love my wife and she will always come first!!!"
playfulgirl
Member
Does it help if you phrase it as what you are /aren't willing to accept in a partner?
As in the beginning discussions, "I need a partner who respects my privacy. For me that means my partners don't share details of our sex life with thers. That would be a deal breaker for me"
I also think fears about how things will be are very normal at the time of possibly and begin to go away after trust builds. Like aversion therapy. ..can you manage for x time if you are anxious before you need a safer space?
And of course you don't have to date if you don't want to. There's nothing wrong with taking a break for whatever reason and letting yourself heal after a recent breakup
As in the beginning discussions, "I need a partner who respects my privacy. For me that means my partners don't share details of our sex life with thers. That would be a deal breaker for me"
I also think fears about how things will be are very normal at the time of possibly and begin to go away after trust builds. Like aversion therapy. ..can you manage for x time if you are anxious before you need a safer space?
And of course you don't have to date if you don't want to. There's nothing wrong with taking a break for whatever reason and letting yourself heal after a recent breakup
I completely eliminated one OKC prospect who looked interesting because after he messaged me, his wife also messaged me to assure me she was okay with him messaging me and that she hoped we could hang out if he and I got to know each other.
Nope. Not cool with that. I guess it's good that she messaged to let me know she was okay with the situation, because at least I knew he wasn't cheating or lying, but it was just coming on way too strong when the only communication the guy and I had exchanged was "Hi, I'm poly too, I think we should get to know each other."
I'm perfectly happy with distance between myself and my metamours, or at the very least, with being able to decide for myself how much connection I'm comfortable with instead of having it foisted on me.
Nope. Not cool with that. I guess it's good that she messaged to let me know she was okay with the situation, because at least I knew he wasn't cheating or lying, but it was just coming on way too strong when the only communication the guy and I had exchanged was "Hi, I'm poly too, I think we should get to know each other."
I'm perfectly happy with distance between myself and my metamours, or at the very least, with being able to decide for myself how much connection I'm comfortable with instead of having it foisted on me.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Ugh, that would send me running too!
To me there is HUGE difference between "I'm open to meeting your other partner and being friendly/hanging out if we get along" and "all of my partners MUST be friends". And whether it's fair or not, I get the "friendship is required" vibe from anyone who wants me to meet or chat with their partner(s) right away.
Or maybe I'm just hyper vigilant and misreading things right now. Like today, I was chatting online with a poly guy, and we talked about our jobs, and he starts going on about his partner's career and how talented she is and ... Dude, why? I don't give a fuck what your partner does for a living.
Seeing it as my need does take my anxiety down a notch, actually! I still worry that it's unreasonable
but at least that phrase sounds like something I could say without worrying I was overstepping. I'm usually fine hanging out in the "we'll see if this works out or not" space before I have sex with someone. I do need some level of trust/comfort/security in order to enjoy sex. Otherwise my anxiety kicks up and ruins it. I've had some shitty experiences - like the guy who messaged his 3 other partners while we were still in bed naked post sex, because he wanted them to know how it went
Right now okc is the only thing distracting me from missing Dag
I don't even particularly want to date, I just need something to keep me from messaging him and begging to see him. Andy is trying soooo hard to keep my mind off Dag, but... I'm used to having them BOTH, you know? As much as I love that Andy is doubling our date nights and making sure I get lots of sex, I still feel Dag's abscence like a constant dull ache. Online chats at least fill the time that used to be spent texting him.On another note - I want to say how much I appreciate everyone listening to the horror stories of my childhood. I've gotten a lot of "but it's not like they beat you, so it's not that bad, right?" reactions in the past
Emotional abuse is a real thing, as is a lack of decent models of relationships, not everyone understands that, I'm glad so many people here do!I definitely need to do some work on my ability to figure out, communicate, and stick to my own boundaries before I date seriously again. That is something I got zero experience doing in childhood, so I'm basically starting at a preschool level when it comes to sticking up for myself.
When I was little - like, preschool through middle school - I spent most of my time at my grandparents, surrounded by the crazy (or insert better word here lol) uncles and aunts who'd never moved out. I HATED sitting next to Uncle Gerbil Beard on the sofa, and sometimes I'd sit on the floor or go in a different room to avoid it. He'd get upset and hurt, and my grandmother would get angry at me. She'd tell me to stop being "mean" and "make up with him", which usually meant taking him his dinner in his room. (Uncle Gerbil Beard had a thing about eating in front of people.) His room... Ugh. Let's just say I still cannot see hermit crabs without having panic attacks. I'd cry and beg not to have to go up there, but my parents would tell me to "keep the peace" and "be polite" and "we all have to do things we don't like sometimes".
Yeah, comfort levels and boundaries were not a thing in my childhood. So now I have a hard time even knowing where mine are, and I worry that stating them will result in having them pushed even more. I wish that somebody, anybody, had come along and told 5 year old me that it was ok not to like Uncle Gerbil Beard, or Uncle Barks Like A Dog, or Uncle Plays With Guns. These days, I'm working on telling myself that I'm a grown up now, and I can choose the people in my life.
Grrrr at people who say "they didn't beat you, so it isn't that bad." I've gotten that too; that thinking is one of the things that kept me in my marriage to my kids' father so long, because he didn't hit me so I figured no one would believe he was abusive. Same with my mother.
To me, all abuse is serious and "bad". But the "wounds" from emotional abuse, or the emotional component of physical or sexual abuse, often last far, far longer than physical injuries. You can put a cast on a broken bone; you can't put a cast on a broken psyche.
To me, all abuse is serious and "bad". But the "wounds" from emotional abuse, or the emotional component of physical or sexual abuse, often last far, far longer than physical injuries. You can put a cast on a broken bone; you can't put a cast on a broken psyche.
IndieSolo
Active member
very reasonable
There is nothing unreasonable about your preferences for dating, and how much info is or isn't shared. I am also not someone who would want personal details discussed with metamours.
These are all the kinds of preferences, needs, deal-breakers, and wants that I put in my OKC profile and discuss upfront with anyone who contacts me. It doesn't make much sense to pretend to be more flexible than I am, or okay with "anything goes" if I am not. Wouldn't you rather deter and weed out the people for whom your preferences would not work, from the get-go? Rather than waste time conversing and getting your hopes up about someone who will not respect boundaries like that? Sometimes the conversation is uncomfortable or awkward, but I see no reason to put forward a facade of being totally cool and accommodating only to set myself up for disappointment and dissatisfaction later, when I could've been clear about what's important to me from the very beginning. If it results in a lot less guys contacting me, so be it.
There is nothing unreasonable about your preferences for dating, and how much info is or isn't shared. I am also not someone who would want personal details discussed with metamours.
These are all the kinds of preferences, needs, deal-breakers, and wants that I put in my OKC profile and discuss upfront with anyone who contacts me. It doesn't make much sense to pretend to be more flexible than I am, or okay with "anything goes" if I am not. Wouldn't you rather deter and weed out the people for whom your preferences would not work, from the get-go? Rather than waste time conversing and getting your hopes up about someone who will not respect boundaries like that? Sometimes the conversation is uncomfortable or awkward, but I see no reason to put forward a facade of being totally cool and accommodating only to set myself up for disappointment and dissatisfaction later, when I could've been clear about what's important to me from the very beginning. If it results in a lot less guys contacting me, so be it.
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