It's a Texlahoma Story

[IndieSolo]

I give up. If sending a response to a message from one guy, after you've only been on two dates with another guy, has you thinking of that as leading to "dating around" and sends you off into your head imagining all sorts of metamour drama and heartbreak, there's nothing I can say to that. I just can't imagine prophesizing such gloom and doom at the prospect of an email conversation, and thinking that you don't have freedom of choice at any moment to say no to another email, or meeting for coffee, or a second date, or anything at all, for whatever reason you want. I am stymied at the idea of "proving" your poly-ness somehow, and wonder who it is that requires such proof, or who imposed such unforgiving standards on you. I really feel for you because you're so hard on yourself and judge yourself very harshly, but my sense is that nothing I would say to you would ever be helpful, because we have such vastly different ways of thinking.

I hope things work out with Spencer and it blossoms into something very satisfying for you. Enjoy the NRE!

 

[Spork]

*shrug*

I dunno. I see nothing wrong with this approach (or any approach) if it makes you more comfortable.

However, I would recommend that if you have decided to focus on Spencer for a while, deactivate your OKC profile. Not just so that eligible dudes aren't seeing you and getting their hopes up and messaging you...but more importantly so that you can stop overthinking your gut-deep disinclination to respond to their messages.

If you don't wanna, you don't wanna. That's simple enough. If things don't work out with Spencer, you can always turn your profile back on. If anyone ever notices and remarks on your disappearance and reappearance, you can say you had some life stuff going on that temporarily limited your time and you had to take a break from considering new options. True enough, right? So no big thing.

You're not on the hook for anything.
You don't owe anyone anything.
Except that you owe yourself as much happiness as you can reap.

So if dating Spencer feels good right now and you don't feel a desire to work on multiple contacts at the same time, then go with that. But go with it in a way that is less indecisive and doesn't make you question your choices as much, y'know?

This is supposed to be fun, right? So have fun!

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

If you don't wanna, you don't wanna. That's simple enough.
...
You're not on the hook for anything.
You don't owe anyone anything.
Except that you owe yourself as much happiness as you can reap.
...
This is supposed to be fun, right? So have fun!

Thank you for this. I forget sometimes, as weird as that sounds.

I find myself thinking, damn, I wish I could just date some cute single guy for a few months, then go back to focusing on other stuff, then either find a new guy or rekindle stuff with the first. I wish I could just ... Have fun with a casual boyfriend or fwb.

Really, why the hell not???

Somewhere along the way, I got it in my head that polyamory is the gold standard of non monogamy. That any old loser can do an open relationship, but poly, man, that's an accomplishment. Those people who manage two or three decades long relationships, they're the rock stars of ethical slutting.

And I'm me, so hell yeah, I'm going to see that as a challenge. A goal. A standard that must be met. Poly started to feel like that Ivy League diploma or marathon number. Yet another way to kick ass in life.

But it's not "fun". Not for me. Fwb are fun. Flings are fun. Years long non escalator relationships are the opposite of fun. They're soul sucking, self esteem crushing, libido killing, energy draining, and mind fucking.

Soooooo... Now what? What do I do with that? Do I let myself have the NRE and sexy times with new friends? Or do I go back to monogamy out of shame at my failure to achieve more than polyfuckery?

 

[IndieSolo]

Fwb are fun. Flings are fun. Years long non escalator relationships are the opposite of fun. They're soul sucking, self esteem crushing, libido killing, energy draining, and mind fucking.

I love how confident you are about what you want! This is someone who knows herself!

Soooooo... Now what? What do I do with that? Do I let myself have the NRE and sexy times with new friends?

Yes, yes, YES!!!

Or do I go back to monogamy out of shame at my failure to achieve more than polyfuckery?

And here we are, back at self-flagellation. When you know so clearly what you want, how could you even possibly consider it failing? You and Andy are successfully practicing polyamory in your own way. I recommend you read this thread: not-quite-poly: lovers & friends w/ benefits

And after reading it, repeat after me: There is no poly rulebook, there is no poly police.

 

[Spork]

Thank you for this. I forget sometimes, as weird as that sounds.

I find myself thinking, damn, I wish I could just date some cute single guy for a few months, then go back to focusing on other stuff, then either find a new guy or rekindle stuff with the first. I wish I could just ... Have fun with a casual boyfriend or fwb.

Really, why the hell not???

Somewhere along the way, I got it in my head that polyamory is the gold standard of non monogamy. That any old loser can do an open relationship, but poly, man, that's an accomplishment. Those people who manage two or three decades long relationships, they're the rock stars of ethical slutting.

And I'm me, so hell yeah, I'm going to see that as a challenge. A goal. A standard that must be met. Poly started to feel like that Ivy League diploma or marathon number. Yet another way to kick ass in life.

But it's not "fun". Not for me. Fwb are fun. Flings are fun. Years long non escalator relationships are the opposite of fun. They're soul sucking, self esteem crushing, libido killing, energy draining, and mind fucking.

Soooooo... Now what? What do I do with that? Do I let myself have the NRE and sexy times with new friends? Or do I go back to monogamy out of shame at my failure to achieve more than polyfuckery?

Isn't that a silly question?

Here's the thing. Nobody has the gold standard of anything. We're all just making this shit up. The winner is the one who spent the most time enjoying this gift of LIFE we get to live here...yes, while still maintaining some balance of responsibility of course.

So the balance in this situation is the ethical part. You know damn well there isn't anything unethical about what you are considering here, and that the conditioning that tries to cast shade on your desires is just a bunch of bad code.

Stop making demands and trying to hammer stuff into containers. Just live! Don't overthink it! Fact is, the thing with Spencer (or anyone) could continue longer than you expected and be surprisingly fine and good, or it could get good and then go south and cause you hurt feelings. Success and failure don't come into it, unless you hang around being miserable like you did with Dag. That was a lesson you needed, and I think that while the ink isn't dry, you learned it.

Listen to your gut and stop judging yourself. You're cool!

Also, I know it's hard to remember these things. I'm pretty good at tying my brain in knots sometimes, too. Who doesn't do that on occasion? I'm just here to remind you not to be so hard on yourself.

There is no poly standard for you to live up to. We're all making it up as we go. So just do YOU in whatever way feels genuine to YOU.

 

[KC43]

Why are you seeing it as a failure? You aren't failing at anything unless you believe you are...and if you believe you're a failure, then, y'know, self-fulfilling prophecy.

Personally, I don't see it as a failure at all, because you're basing that assessment on the assumption that there is a RIGHT WAY to poly...and like I said before, there isn't. To some people, having sexytimes with friends you aren't in love with and aren't in a relationship with still counts as poly, because friendship is a form of love, it's just different from *romantic* love.

And why would you go back to monogamy if you have fun having sex with friends? Why punish yourself like that for some imagined failure that doesn't actually exist?

You really are excruciatingly hard on yourself, Claire. I understand, believe me; I'm the same way a lot of the time. But I hope you'll come to realize that you're the only one judging you. You're the only one who gives a damn one way or the other if you're doing poly "right". So make "right" the way that works for YOU, and try to stop worrying about what anyone else is going to think.

I said something in my blog earlier: My boyfriend has told me that before I can reasonably expect others to love me, I really need to work on loving myself. I would say the same applies to you, and I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or out of line. But I see a ton of self-hatred and self-condemnation in your posts, and it makes me hurt for you, because you are hurting yourself every time you think that kind of thing. I hope someday you'll be able to stop doing that.

*Slinks off back to my corner*

 

[Tinwen]

Or do I go back to monogamy out of shame at my failure to achieve more than polyfuckery?

I actually thought this wasn't a real question after all that has been already said, but people seem to be taking it seriously

Don't let avoiding shame be your motivation.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I do feel a lot of shame about wanting FWBs over full blown committed relationships. It seems lazy to me, like I'm cheating the system. And it feels too damn close to unethical for my liking.

Because I'm basically saying, "I'd like to be romantic and sexy with you while it's fun, but I'm not willing to put in any real emotional work." Pretty shitty, when you look at it that way.

The thing is, I have zero intention of running away or bailing on people because life gets hard. If we have love and friendship, then I'm there, no matter what. But ... As a friend. Not necessarily as a girlfriend, partner, or lover.

Being a girlfriend to someone I'll never live with, never marry, never make life plans with... It's incredibly hard for me. Sometimes too hard. And as much as I hate to put it this way... It's SO MUCH WORK for so little reward. Processing and stressing and worrying and compromising 24/7, just to see someone a few hours a week? It's just... It's just not worth it. When it gets like that, I'd rather be plain old platonic friends than keep exhausting myself.

So, yeah. I'd like to seek out friendship, the real kind, with love and kindness and respect, and with the possibility of fun sexy times when that's something we both want. With the understanding that if things get too complicated or uncomfortable, for either of us, for any reason, we can take a break from the sex part or stop entirely.

But that's easy for me... Because my brain pretty much divides people into three categories. Life partner, other people I care about, and the rest of the world. So changing a non life partner relationship from romantic to platonic is not that traumatic for me. For a lot of other people, though, it's not that simple. And so maybe what I'm wanting isn't fair or reasonable. Maybe to those people, I'm just saying, I'm going to romance you and make you care about me, and then leave when shit gets real.

I said something in my blog earlier: My boyfriend has told me that before I can reasonably expect others to love me, I really need to work on loving myself. I would say the same applies to you, and I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or out of line. But I see a ton of self-hatred and self-condemnation in your posts, and it makes me hurt for you, because you are hurting yourself every time you think that kind of thing. I hope someday you'll be able to stop doing that.

I read that post and like you, I have lots of people in my life who love me pretty damn close to unconditionally. But my love for myself is very conditional. I am constantly tallying up accomplishments and failures, successes and losses, and it's largely a subconscious check to see if I feel deserving of love. It sucks, and I do need to do better at treating myself with the same compassion I show others.

 

[KC43]

I do feel a lot of shame about wanting FWBs over full blown committed relationships. It seems lazy to me, like I'm cheating the system. And it feels too damn close to unethical for my liking.

Um... you don't think friendship is a commitment? It might not be a *romantic* one, but I know friendships that are far more respectful, committed, and intended for life than some marriages. I understand feeling shame about it, but there isn't really a need for shame. As long as you're up front about what you want and need, you're being completely honest and ethical, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Personally, I prefer FWBs over full blown relationships because friendships are WAY less stressful for me. Sex with a friend is a lot easier, because if a friend judges me over something sexual, I can walk away much more easily than I can from someone I'm in love with.

The corollary (I think that's the right word) for that is, of course, that *I* am the only one judging myself about anything sexual.

Because I'm basically saying, "I'd like to be romantic and sexy with you while it's fun, but I'm not willing to put in any real emotional work." Pretty shitty, when you look at it that way.

Except liking someone is an emotion. Friendship is an emotionally connection. And the way you describe how you do friendship, that's far more emotional work than a lot of people put into their "full blown relationships." The only thing shitty about it is that *you* are seeing it as shitty.

But that's easy for me... Because my brain pretty much divides people into three categories. Life partner, other people I care about, and the rest of the world. So changing a non life partner relationship from romantic to platonic is not that traumatic for me. For a lot of other people, though, it's not that simple. And so maybe what I'm wanting isn't fair or reasonable. Maybe to those people, I'm just saying, I'm going to romance you and make you care about me, and then leave when shit gets real.

If you aren't in a relationship, you aren't romancing them, are you? Having fun sexytimes with someone isn't the same as romancing them. And again, if you're being up front about what you want, if someone agrees to get involved, it's on *them* if they end up being hurt. *You* are not doing anything wrong by saying "Let's just be friends, but we can fuck occasionally." Someone who agrees to that knowing they can't handle it... *they* are the one in the wrong. You seem to be equating sex and romance in this bit of your post, and I'm not sure how those are the same thing if you've made it clear that the sex is occurring in the context of a friendship.

(Disclaimer: I see zero connection between sex and love or sex and romance anyway... To me, they have nothing to do with each other. Sex is purely physical; love and romance are purely emotional. I don't have sex with Hubby or my boyfriend because I love them, nor do I love them because I have sex with them; I have sex with them. I love them. Two completely separate things. But I am aware that most people see a connection there.)

I read that post and like you, I have lots of people in my life who love me pretty damn close to unconditionally. But my love for myself is very conditional. I am constantly tallying up accomplishments and failures, successes and losses, and it's largely a subconscious check to see if I feel deserving of love. It sucks, and I do need to do better at treating myself with the same compassion I show others.

Yep, same here. Completely. I do understand where you're coming from. It's far easier for me to see it in someone else and try to help them change that thinking than it is for me to do it for myself... because part of the conditions I place on myself convince me that I don't deserve to feel better or be happier. It's a vicious cycle, and it completely sucks.

A bit of irony in your last sentence, though, because it sounds like you're judging yourself about judging yourself...

 

[Tinwen]

So, yeah. I'd like to seek out friendship, the real kind, with love and kindness and respect, and with the possibility of fun sexy times when that's something we both want. With the understanding that if things get too complicated or uncomfortable, for either of us, for any reason, we can take a break from the sex part or stop entirely.

I seems to come down to being upfront about this, and finding people who can do that, then. I think it's possible - and the stereotype is, that it's usually easier for men then women. So if you're a woman who can just have sex when it's enjoyable and stop sex when it isn't without damaging a relationship? By being upfront about it, maybe you're even expanding your pool of potentials (switching from "romantic" to "fwb").

That having said... how does all of this work with your getting crushes and craving sex with them? Do you regard crush people as friends?

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

See, I'm weird I do see crushes, even ones that include sexual attraction, as a friend thing. For me, romance = relationship escalator. Marriage, kids, forever and ever, I'd do anything for you, two lives becoming one, Disney movie stuff. Anything else is... Friends.

I get hints of craving that happily ever after with guys I'm dating, and sometimes it's nice, and sometimes it's confusing. But knowing it's not ever going to happen in reality keeps me from giving in to the swoony romantic feelings. I usually just indulge them occasionally because honestly, they make sex soooo much better. Of course, sometimes it gets a little out of hand. Or a lot. Like with Dag. I didn't just let myself feel those things as fantasies, I thought maybe they could really happen, and in the end I got hurt.

But I can't get my head around what other people mean, when they say they feel romantic and yet don't want to move in together and be lifelong partners. It just doesn't compute for me. All of the stuff I hear people say is romantic - touching, holding hands, staring into each other's eyes, sharing secrets, flowers and chocolates and mushy hallmark cards - I do that shit with lots of friends. Even platonic female friends. I dunno. Like I said, weird.

So it doesn't really matter to me if a guy I'm dating sees us as FWBs, lovers, boyfriend/girlfriend. If you are not looking to be my life partner, then it's all the same to me. It's just awkward when I realize that it's not all the same to them, you know? I've had the same reaction to every breakup... Guy is upset and hurt, and I'm thinking, but why? you didn't want to get married to me, you're already married, so... what's the big deal if we're friends instead of lovers?

I've been trying and trying to understand for a year now, but "non escalator romantic relationship" still seems like an oxymoron to me.

 

[Spork]

Nothing wrong with that.

What's great is all this...even the way the Dag thing went down...it's all doing the work to really understand yourself. And that's what has to happen so that you can do the ethical part best, where you know exactly what you would like to attain and what you can offer someone, so that you can be upfront about it and begin with hopefully a good understanding in place of the needs and boundaries in the interaction.

I also get the thing of feeling shamey or guilty that you want the benefits of ~this~ sort of a thing...and not the "cost" (work, investment) of ~that~ kind of a thing. You feel you're not paying for what you're getting. But at the end of the day, if the other person feels good about it and you feel good about it, then there is no objective judge standing there saying "YOU TWO STOP IT, THIS ISN'T FAIR!!" Nope. Just two people having a good time and nothing wrong with that.

So you're going to have to stop that gremlin from chewing on your brain and sabotaging your happiness. *hands you a fondue fork* We all have gremlins to fight.

My fear was, in the intimacy I've got with Zen, that because he loves the top role with a combination of being in control and serving my needs...and I love the bottom role where I am surrendering control and having the stuff done to me...that it's not fair I'm not giving him as much as he is giving me, and I'm being greedy, lazy, selfish.

But what purpose does my self-criticism serve? He is happy, I am happy, we're well matched, both having a great time, and if he wants something he is happy to ask for it, we do have good communication....so what's the problem? Well, it's a gremlin. And it's got a lot to do with past relationships where we were NOT compatible thusly and my preferences DID make me a lazy, greedy or selfish partner...because the other person wasn't getting their needs met. So. Letting prior baggage taint present happiness is no bueno man.

So for me, if I talk about "romantic feelings" I'm referring to the whole NRE, limerance, "in love" thing. I cannot dismiss that as this fleeting and inconsequential non-issue. I rarely experience it, and when I do...

It's not just touching, it's "I cannot NOT touch you. I'm gonna cling on your person like a squid. Hope you don't mind..."

It's not just looking into each other's eyes, it's staring and noticing every tiny detail of them. It's taking in that person with all of my senses in a very intense way.

Chocolates? I found out he loves lime, and dark chocolate. When we were in Denver for Comic Con, I vanished on an "errand" and drove to a mall where I knew there was a Godiva boutique, and bought him a bunch of dark chocolate lime truffles, I planned and schemed the whole thing including when I could get away and back without him knowing.

We could both give you a list of what the other likes to eat and drink now. He's paying as much attention as I am.

It feels like addiction. I have that for Zen and for the first time in my life, the subject of my intensity returns it. But guess what has come next...? Thoughts of escalation. Yep. He started creeping into my future-dreams within a few months of me feeling this way, and now we're sniffing around the idea of maybe living together. It was one of several reasons I stopped doing poly. And when I did...at first I wanted FWB with the rest...then just friends...but not "relationships." If Zen were poly, I would probably be right there in the same boat as you, but hopefully with less guilt about it!

So I guess I'm saying that I get it...

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Mmmm dark chocolate lime truffles

I'm in a shit mood today. I don't want to do anything except hole up in my house and watch Netflix, but I have mountains of work stuff and life stuff to deal with ugh. I don't know what happened to my good mood from last week, it just disappeared Fighting with Andy all weekend sure didn't help I honestly think we are just spending waaaay too much time together and getting on each other's nerves. He has a work thing tonight that he's taking Steph to, so at least we'll get a tiny break.

I'm in this bizarre mental and emotional space these days. It's like I need to act out and be crazy and stupid, do the wild post breakup thing, but I'm a little too self aware... I can see the acting out for the irrational thing it is, and it just feels so strange. I want to go out with a different guy every week, fall in and out of love (ok, lust, lol) at warp speed, be selfish and immature. I'm so damn tired of worrying about other people's feelings.

And yet, I still worry. I think about Spencer, and what a kind, caring, person he is, and I can't bring myself to string him along and take advantage of him. I'm in no shape to be anybody's girlfriend, I know that. I'm still in the "take out my anger at Dag on unsuspecting dudes" phase. Which means I should stay the fuck away from decent men who genuinely care about me.

You know how we use the phrases "hate read" and "hate watch" to talk about media we consume solely to snark about and be judgemental assholes? I have a "hate date" on Wednesday, lol. With the poly-est of poly dudes on OKC. I started chatting with him because he was cute, and he spent most of three days of texting mansplaining polyamory to me. I agreed to meet him out of sheer curiosity. Or maybe because I want to whip his butt in what will surely turn into a Franklin Veaux quote-off.

Before anybody freaks out... Yeah, I'm doing some post-break up dumbness. I mean, that should have been obvious a while back, I'm obsessing over a new guy every few days and then forgetting their names. I am, however, still Claire I'm not going to do anything dangerous, physically or emotionally. No worries about me goung home with anybody on a first date, and I throw up after 3 beers, so there won't be heavy drinking, lol. Meeting the guy in a well lit suburban chain restaurant and having safety check ins with Andy, blah blah blah.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

So I considered deleting my last post, but screw it, it's honest, and this blog is nothing if not a place for me to be honest without fear of judgement. Yeah, I'm scrolling on okc and humming Taylor Swift's Blank Space. It's what I feel like doing these days.

I am trying, though, not to let all my shitty experiences turn me off poly forever. I don't want to say NEVER AGAIN and cut myself off from the potential for something wonderful down the line. I definitely don't want to limit Andy's happiness and love in any way.

There's just a lot of stuff I need to figure out before I'd dare go there again. A LOT.

Because right now, I see nothing but the potential for drama and unhappiness. So many situations where one partner's needs or expectations are at odds with another's. So many situations where there is a winner and a loser... Or else a half hearted compromise that satisfies no one.

 

[Spork]

I saw your last post, and this one too actually, as "processing." I don't get the feeling that you've reached a destination, but that you are chewing on feelings and ideas.

Kind of what these blogs are for, no?

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I'm definitely in processing mode...

Trying to figure out where my boundaries are, what works and what doesn't.

Being the "primary" partner is so easy. For me, at least. Andy's other relationships don't alter or even affect our marriage at all. Sometimes he is not home, but it's no different than his being out with platonic friends or traveling for work. Sometimes his friend girls come over, just like our other friends. Sometimes we go to their houses or to social things with them, just like we do with friends and family. Sometimes he's on the phone or texting them, just like sometimes he does those things with lots of other people. It's just ... Not a big deal.

And I thought it would feel like that if I dated someone else, that it would be the same thing. We'd have a relationship, and it would fit easily into our lives. Just hasn't ever worked out that way. I always feel like I'm playing bumper cars, constantly running into this boundary or that agreement. I thought Dag's DADT would be a way to avoid that, but eventually even that rule was something I bumped into over and over again.

I read all these posts where people are genuinely concerned for their metamours feelings, and I think, maybe I'm too selfish to do poly. Then I see something about compromise, and I think, maybe I'm too stubborn. Because basically, I want what I want, and if I can't get that, I don't want to negotiate and compromise and hope someday things get better... I just want to nope the fuck out of the relationship.

 

[Spork]

Do you think maybe that is because of your personal view and feelings of how investment works? Like in order to have investment, there must be escalation...no escalation = no investment. Which equals not wanting to put up with less than ideal circumstances, uncomfortable feelings, or work to solve problems. Not worth the effort in an uninvested relationship.

Maybe?

Thing is there isn't anything arbitrarily right or wrong about any of this. I think that's the part you could stand to loosen up about.

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Do you think maybe that is because of your personal view and feelings of how investment works? Like in order to have investment, there must be escalation...no escalation = no investment. Which equals not wanting to put up with less than ideal circumstances, uncomfortable feelings, or work to solve problems. Not worth the effort in an uninvested relationship.

Yes, that's exactly it. Coupled with a frustration that the relationship is treated so differently by my partner's partner than any other friendship.

I look at all these couples and think, geez, do you act this way about each other's friends and family? Do you freak out about your husband introducing a platonic friend to his work colleagues? Do you have to talk about it for six hours if your husband texts his cousin during dinner? Maybe they do but somehow I doubt it. It seems more like my existence is seen as something foreign and threatening that requires constant vigilance.

So I frequently feel like, hey, as much as I like this guy, the reward:suffering ratio would be much better as friends than as boyfriend - girlfriend. Sure, we'd give up the (rewarding) sex, but we'd also escape the misery of having Big Brother spying on us.

It's just strange to realize what an outlier I am on those things, though... At least among poly people. Most seem to feel being "in a relationship" as a Very Big Deal, even when there's zero entanglement - and to see that status of "in a relationship" as being worth all the processing and stressing and boundary setting.

What that means for me, going forward, is that I need to be VERY clear about where I stand. Both in order to avoid messy situations and to be ethical in starting relationships. Not always easy for me

 

[Spork]

It's just strange to realize what an outlier I am on those things, though... At least among poly people. Most seem to feel being "in a relationship" as a Very Big Deal, even when there's zero entanglement - and to see that status of "in a relationship" as being worth all the processing and stressing and boundary setting.

...or not. I mean. I for one got to a point where the "in relationship" part was stressful. I was forever processing and I felt like with the quad we were doing the work of something Other, not "Relationship." But I did not feel that way until Zen and I really got going. The contrast maybe was too much, along with other things. Can't say which thing ended it more than other things really. All were valid.

What the Zen thing looks/looked like: "Actively wanting to get together every opportunity, know one another's schedules, cannot keep hands and eyes off each other, sex about weekly or more, and would consider escalation. Live in one another's world."

What the quad thing looked like: "Making plans or letting others make plans to get together, but often feel others have Life that I don't know about. Cannot follow others' schedules well. Cuddles and flirts and enjoyable touch plentiful, but not magnetic clinging like we can't stop. Sex maybe once a month. Escalation not an option I would even consider. I visit their world."

When Fire asked me the difference between friendship and "relationship" I told her I thought it was mostly sex. Maybe not. Maybe it's an escalation issue but I just wasn't ready to look that in the eye. I was so proud of my choice to be solo, even though it has been a scary choice the whole time. But it really felt to me like I could sever the "relationship" word, continue what we'd been doing, call it friends with (or even without) benefits, and not lose much or change much. They disagreed and processed it as a breakup, especially, I think, the men.

So it's tough. I think the worst part is doing so much work to become so self aware, and wanting to be honest and all of this stuff we do...and then it turns out that you actually want something different from what you thought you wanted, once you're in the situation deep enough for it to matter. I said recently I feel like I'm writing the manual and then tearing it up and writing it again, over and over.

 

[KC43]

Your phrase "zero entanglement" stood out to me. Not being on the escalator doesn't mean not being entangled, it just means being entangled in a different way.

Hubby and I are entangled in a financial, legal, and cohabitation sense. We went for that escalator ride; we're legally married, and have all the associated joint things and papers and what have you.

My boyfriend and I are not entangled in any of those ways, other than me having some of my belongings at his home. We aren't riding the escalator; we can't, because I've already ridden it with Hubby. Though, as Bluebird, Dagferi, and others demonstrate, it is possible to ride the escalator with more than one partner, my boyfriend and I have agreed that isn't the path our relationship is taking.

But *emotionally*, I am heavily entangled with both of them. My marriage is not more of a relationship than what I have with my boyfriend. To me, they are equal, even though one includes all the legal and financial stuff and the other doesn't. There is no escalator for my relationship with my boyfriend; it's more of a sedate amble down a forest path. But that makes it no less valid or entangled than my escalator-based marriage.

I think you see "entanglement" as the literal, physical evidence and validation of a relationship. The shared home, the paperwork, the shared finances, etc. And that is one definition and, for some, one component of entanglement. But it isn't the only way of looking at it.