It's a Texlahoma Story

I think that honoring our own needs is a theme that gets both of us.

You put up with things and stay when you kinda know it's not worth it, and you should go.

But you're maybe one step ahead of me... Because at least you ask for what you need. It's past that point where it has become clear you're not going to get it, that you need to leave, and you don't, is where you stop acting in your own best interests, right?

I don't even know how to ask. I put up with things that hurt me deeply, because I'm convinced that it's not fair for me to feel what I feel and certainly not to ask anyone to change because I have some stupid irrational bullshit in my head. So I keep quiet about it, whatever "it" is, more often than not. I've maybe got a British DNA predisposition to try and "stiff upper lip" every fucking thing. I don't know.

I need to write in my own blog...there's a lot more to this thought...but I sense a similar flavor in that maybe both of us wish we could respect our own needs more and act accordingly when it comes to relationships.
 
It's snowing :D

This happens only once or twice a year in dallas, so it feels truly magical. The whole world shuts down and everyone huddles at home. I stocked up on firewood and Apple cider on the way home... Now I wish I'd left the Christmas tree up ;) Our older dog lived in New England with us for one winter, so she remembers and loooooves the snow. The younger one not so much. He goes out to pee and has a panic attack, comes in, runs in circles, and cries until I rub him dry with a towel. The sight of an 85 lb dog scared of snow is just priceless!

On the dating front - jumped back on okc last night, chatting with 3 guys who seem interesting. Trying not to get my hopes up too much lol.

It's so strange but I am in a much better mood when I am just sort of aimlessly dating than when I am focused on one person. And yet I want/need/expect/??? to eventually have just one ongoing fwb thing. :confused:Something I need to figure out here, I can't quite put my finger on it yet :cool:
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
It's so strange but I am in a much better mood when I am just sort of aimlessly dating than when I am focused on one person. And yet I want/need/expect/??? to eventually have just one ongoing fwb thing. :confused:Something I need to figure out here, I can't quite put my finger on it yet :cool:
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Aaaand here we go again. I have a crush. Suddenly I can't see continuing to chat with anyone else as anything but a boring chore. Why Claire why :confused: You haven't even met this guy! Keep your options open! Talk to other guys! Date! Explore!

Some days I swear I wish I could just rewire my brain.

I have more or less accepted that my sexual energy and interest tends to be a one-guy-at-a-time thing. My libido is serially monogamous. When I'm into someone sexually, I lose all sexual attraction to others.. In order to feel it for someone new, I need to "turn off" the old. It's not the end of the world. It doesn't interfere with my ability to be sexual with Andy, we both are cool with the fact that our sexy time is one (or both) of us fantasizing. He doesn't mind that I have to think about my current boyfriend or crush to get off - actually he thinks it's hot.

But days like this - where I have half a dozen unanswered messages from cool guys on okc, and I'm staring at my phone willing New Crush to text me - I wish I could at least slow down my inevitable focus.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
Aaaand here we go again. I have a crush. Suddenly I can't see continuing to chat with anyone else as anything but a boring chore.
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Hmm, I realize I have some of this. I haven't been able to date in all honesty while I have Idealist. I always go talk to guys on a dating site when I feel somewhat lonely or disconnected, and then ... either we reconnect and I can't be bothered to keep up the search (as you write, it's boring), or sometimes when the conversation really gets promising, I get conflicted.
In real life as well - when I am content in my relationship, rarely anybody catches my eyes. I do realize that's not exactly what you describe :)
 
Tinwen said:
Hmm, I realize I have some of this. I haven't been able to date in all honesty while I have Idealist. I always go talk to guys on a dating site when I feel somewhat lonely or disconnected, and then ... either we reconnect and I can't be bothered to keep up the search (as you write, it's boring), or sometimes when the conversation really gets promising, I get conflicted.
In real life as well - when I am content in my relationship, rarely anybody catches my eyes. I do realize that's not exactly what you describe :)
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It's similar, though.

I read about people spontaneously developing romantic or sexual feelings for someone new while they are already in a relationship... That has never happened for me. It takes effort, and emotional work, a lot of it, to feel relationship-y about two people at once, or even attracted to two people at once.

The love part of poly comes easy for me. The sex part is difficult, but I can work through it. The commitment part I don't think I'll ever understand.

Some days, I'm happier just dreaming of finding a sexually monogamous but otherwise commitment free fwb deal, than facing the actual reality of poly dating life.
 
A couple of random thoughts... I'll probably split this into multiple posts... My mind is sort of wandering tonight :rolleyes:

Earlier today I was reading on another poly discussion group and ran across something that poked at my "can't break up because of poly" feelings. There was a mention of "people who are ok being the newest partner but cannot handle having partners added". Maybe I'm oversensitive but it seemed like there was a lot of snark and eye rolling about "those people".

Well, I can completely imagine being one of those people. And why is that so terrible, really? I wouldn't tell anyone they couldn't date anyone new, they can date whomever they want. But I might well decide that dealing with seeing my partner all wrapped up in nre for someone else was more pain than it was worth :cool:

Soooo... What the hell am I supposed to do? I try to be upfront that I'm not expecting or offering a lifetime commitment. If things moved past casual with anyone, I'd be honest that a lot of poly relationshipping is hard for me, and I can't promise I'll always want to continue a romantic and/or sexual relationship if the situation changes. I'd understand if someone didn't want to date me knowing those things.

Or am I just supposed to never date again, because someday something might be a relationship ending event?

Ok, deep breath, rant over ;)
 
Also, I have been bingeing on historical tv dramas lately, The Tudors, Medicis, The Borgias. Settings where a woman's value was based entirely on what men she could attract and what she could get from them in return for sex.

Talk about a lightbulb going on in my brain. More like blinding floodlights.

It reminds me of high school. It reminds me of the way my grandmothers taught me about the world. That whole idea of women trading sex for security, money, power, love, attention, it's so embedded in my mind. The nuances, too, of the delicate system in place. Where marriage is the ultimate goal, but a woman might choose to be the mistress of a powerful man rather than the wife of a lesser one. An intricate analysis of a man's status vs what he will offer in trade for her company.

I would have given Anne Boleyn a run for her money. There was a point in college where I was having a real self esteem slump, too much partying, falling behind in my classes. In the space of a few months, I broke up 3 couples by flirting with the guys and hinting that I'd date them if their girlfriends were out of the picture. I told myself I wasn't doing anything wrong, because I never even kissed any of the guys. But I knew what I was doing. I didn't even want to actually be with any of them, I just wanted to see how many guys would leave their 2,3,4 year relationships for a chance to be with me. It was cruel. I was cruel. But damn it was an ego boost.

So yes, the whole sense of proving one's value as a woman by seeing what men will do to be with you is all too familiar to me. And it lingers in my subconscious, messing with my more rational views, causing me to want one thing but doggedly pursue another.

I want a nice, simple, easy fwb thing. But I feel like I'm "better" than that. Like I have to prove I'm worthy and valuable by getting the guy to declare me his girlfriend, devote more time to me, commit to me. Fwb is for fat ugly dumb girls who can't get a guy to date them for real, right? So I shouldn't settle for that. Even if it's, you know, what I want.

[Bangs head on desk]

One other thing this has helped me understand - why I get so damn worked up hearing about other partners. It feels to me like an insult, like they are reminding me they don't think I'm good enough for monogamy. In the case of someone discussing their spouse or primary, it's a reminder that someone else got the real prize - official commitment. It feels in that moment like the guy just flat out telling me she is prettier, smarter, funnier, sexier - obviously, because he married her, and has no plans to leave her for me.

I don't want to marry these guys. I don't want to even commit to dating them seriously. And yet, the fact that they aren't begging me for more, more, more wounds my ego.

Dude: Will you be my girlfriend?
Me: I just wanna be friends with benefits.
Dude: Ok.
Me: Are you saying I'm a fat ugly slut who no one will ever marry?
Dude: You're already married. And also maybe batshit crazy, I think.
Me: You think she's prettier than me don't you wahhhhh
Dude: [runs away]

FML.
 
Wow.. I understand your hang up with poly more after your last post.

I had the oposite upbring. My dad raised me that I was a good as any man and I didn't need one to take care of me. I could do it on my own.

I have never needed the validation of being the possession of a man.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
That whole idea of women trading sex for security, money, power, love, attention, it's so embedded in my mind. The nuances, too, of the delicate system in place. Where marriage is the ultimate goal, but a woman might choose to be the mistress of a powerful man rather than the wife of a lesser one. An intricate analysis of a man's status vs what he will offer in trade for her company.
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Dagferi said:
I had the oposite upbring. My dad raised me that I was a good as any man and I didn't need one to take care of me. I could do it on my own.
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You know what is weird? No one tought me this stuff, in fact I don't think anyone in our family would consciously approve, but I still bang into some of it. Like, it's not there thought wise, but feelings wise it fits. The idea, that the man (my man, one man!) should be the one generating income and the woman should care about home (which goes quite against my grain). The 'you don't offer commitment, I don't offer sex' exchange following from it. A certain sense of worthlessness if I do.
What a shitty disempowered setting.
 
Dagferi said:
I had the oposite upbring. My dad raised me that I was a good as any man and I didn't need one to take care of me. I could do it on my own.

I have never needed the validation of being the possession of a man.
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Like Tinwen, I was not *taught* this stuff by my parents... I actually wasn't taught much about life by them, my dad was busy making money and my mom was busy being sick and then dying. My grandmother and aunts certainly put a lot of it in my head. "It's as easy to love a rich man as a poor man", etc.

But mostly it was learning by osmosis. Growing up, I didn't know any families where the wife worked to support the family. A lot of women got "fun" jobs, art teacher, piano teacher, or they volunteered or did church stuff. The husbands were doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc, and earned the real money.

What's weirdest is that there was no hint of "women need men to take care of them". It was more "an attractive woman can get a man to take care of her". Single women, and those whose husbands didn't make enough to support a family on one salary, were pitied... Not because they were poor and starving, but because they were not good enough at being women to have snagged a good husband.

The possibility that a woman might prefer being single or being the breadwinner was just not considered in my childhood world. No, we just assumed that Ms. Smith became a neurosurgeon because she wasn't pretty enough to marry one :rolleyes:

Tinwen said:
The 'you don't offer commitment, I don't offer sex' exchange following from it. A certain sense of worthlessness if I do.
What a shitty disempowered setting.
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Yes. Exactly. I WANT sex without commitment - because I already have all the commitment I can handle, but not the sex. And yet - when I find it, I feel like I am devaluing myself.

It's like rational brain vs emotional brain. Rational brain says find a fuck buddy who doesn't interfere with your marriage or your work schedule. Emotional brain screams that having sex without commitment is admitting failure as a woman and humiliating myself.
 
That is funny because I was brought up thinking that this was completely wrong, that women who got with men for their money were basically bad, selfish people. That they'd be putting up with either a partner they didn't love, or poor treatment, or whatever, just for the sake of money.

And that the pinnacle of achievement is self sufficiency, not needing a man at all. Checking out from the world of playing the game and concerning oneself with the opinions of men in order to make it...that's the highest of achievements.

The concept that "pretty" is more valuable in a woman, than things she worked to accomplish, and that only men's achievements are legitimate, is a hot-button topic for me, one that makes me really REALLY defensive.

It's also the part of me that gets angry thinking that maybe love isn't real or possible, it's all just people using each other and calling it love. Fuck that. I'd rather be alone, than just live a "trade sex for money" relationship.
 
I've been looking through The Jealousy Workbook, interesting, but frustrating trying to skim through endless pages of "does not apply" to get to the relevant parts. I'll probably write more about it another time...

What made me start with it was an article by the author about drawing our charts to show what proportion of your jealousy is fear, anger, and sadness. And then looking at those categories to see how they divide - say, 70% fear of this, 30% fear of that. Because I'm fascinated by realizing how much of my poly angst is fear of loss of status, fear of being pitied, fear of being seen as lacking. Stuff that has nothing to do with the actual one on one relationship between me and another, and everything to do with how I believe outsiders will judge the relationship - and me.

The pie chart thing was a little too fuzzy for me, so I'm doing it a little differently. I'm rating certain situations on a 1 - 3 scale of how much stress they cause me. And then asking myself to remove the "status judgement" facor, and seeing if the rating changes . (I'm hopeful that I can repeat this with other factors eventually, hmmmm,???)

Baseline Scale

0 - No worries!

1 - This is not ideal, but I'll get over it

2 - I'm feeling stressed, and need to reframe my thinking/ talk to my partner/ make some changes in order to feel ok again

3 - Losing my shit

(Posting this half finished because I gotta go start dinner :p)
 
So, then I looked back at some of my worst poly freak out moments, and tried to remains them minus the fear of public loss of face. It was almost impossible for me to suspend my disbelief and imagine that no one was judging me :cool: so instead I just asked myself, what if no one knew?

Dag blowing off my birthday

This was a 3. For sure. I was crushed.

What if no one had known? What if I hadn't mentioned it on this blog, or talked to Andy and K about it?

Down to a 2. It still hurt. But it would have felt fixable. I could have told him, asked for him to try harder to make a fuss over big days.


Dag canceling our trip

Another 3. Duh.

And if no one knew?

All the way down to a 1. Shit happens. We could have gone another time.

Dag being last minute about plans, and/or not having much time

2-3, depending on my mood

Without anyone knowing?

Becomes a 1-2. I didn't have a ton of time, either. I could have simply not seen him if he couldn't plan a date a few days ahead.

Seriously, my mind is blown. So damn much of my panic and fear and upset was due to feeling shame and humiliation, feeling like the world would see me as a failure for not being "good enough" to get my boyfriend to bend over backwards to make me happy.
 
So, yeah, I'm crushing. Hard. :eek: The kind where it's sooooo hard not to just write endlessly about everything he has said and every last little thing I have learned about him. I'm going to resist, for now, though. Because I have more important shit to do, if I'm going to have any chance of not fucking this up!

I have been thinking about my number one big scary poly thing - feeling insecure in non escalator relationships. It's something I really need to handle better, because a second primary or nesting partner is not a good fit for my life. Whether I call him a fwb, a boyfriend, or that-guy-i-fuck, any future dude in my life will require some measure of staying off the escalator without losing my mind.

If I break it down, my stress about non escalator relationships is

25% worry that people will think I'm pathetic for not wrangling marriage from the guy

25% genuine craving to spend as much time as possible with anyone I love, and belief that "the good stuff" is more about sharing downtime and daily life than having exciting dates or focused couple time.

50% feelings of rejection when a partner does not want 24-7 shared life stuff with me

The first one... The judgement factor... Well, long term, I need to stop giving a fuck what people think. Medium term, I can remind myself that not everyone sees "get the guy to marry you" as the pinnacle of success, or even a worthwhile goal. Short term, it's easy to just not talk about the relationship if I'm worried how someone will judge it. I don't owe anybody a play by play of my sex life.

My soul cravings to live with loved ones, that's harder. Much harder. I can try to create room for downtime and "boring day to day stuff" in relationships. I can accept that my feelings don't usually develop quickly or go very deep without those things, and not beat myself up for that. But the reality is that eventually, either I get bored and move on, or I do fall in love - and then my nesting urges kick in so hard that it's painful for me to be in a relationship where I can't act on them. Is there anything to do about that besides make peace with it, and with the idea that "I wanna live with you and I can't and it hurts too much" will keep my relationships short lived? :(

The third part - the feelings of rejection - is probably where I can make real progress. It helps, some, just to know that not everyone sees "marry me!" as the ultimate declaration of love... That not everyone equates love with living together. I still feel that way, though. I wish I had the right words to express to a partner what I need around this. I need to know that even if circumstances and other relationships and life in general mean we won't ever live together - they would still want it, if it was possible. I need to know they see me as a life partner type... That they see and love and appreciate that side of me. I don't feel good when I'm told I'm exciting or sexy or tons of fun. I'd much rather someone told me how nurturing I am, how safe I make them feel, how easy it is to be around me. When I get stuck in the role of "fun sexy girl" I feel very much like the real me is going unnoticed. And there's also the fact that I'll always see "fun sexy girl" as somehow less than "wife".

I'm kind of rambling now, so I'll leave this and come back to it, I guess.
 
So, the new guy ... I'm going to call him Draper, after Don of Madmen, because he has the same job title. And because he's swoon worthy :eek: I haven't written much because I'm scared to jinx things - he's amazing and he's looking for exactly the kind of simple, heavy on the romance and fun, light on the commitment type thing I am.

He's married and lives in another area of Texas, but works for a Dallas based company and spends about 50% of his time here. They have an "free to see others while apart" set up. A meta who lives several hours away, man, that's a dream come true for me. I don't have to feel guilty that I'm leaving some single guy lonely while I'm with Andy, and I don't have to feel guilty for not wanting to be insta-BFFs with The Wife.

I should probably be worried by the "open only when apart" thing ... It could mean they're only supposed to have super casual flings, or that his wife is not truly comfortable with non monogamy ... But I just can't summon any stress about that. Maybe my own preference for hearing as little as possible about other partners biases me here. Maybe I am just an asshole who doesn't give a fuck.

No, the only worry feelings I have are about what will happen if Draper and I end up staying together long enough for my relationship escalator cravings to kick in. But I'm trying not to borrow trouble. That's a long way off, if it happens, well, I'll either deal or end things. For today, I'm just enjoying this. Because it is awesome, and Draper is sexy as hell :D
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
I should probably be worried by the "open only when apart" thing ... It could mean they're only supposed to have super casual flings, or that his wife is not truly comfortable with non monogamy ... But I just can't summon any stress about that. Maybe my own preference for hearing as little as possible about other partners biases me here. Maybe I am just an asshole who doesn't give a fuck.
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OR, since he's away half of the time, they see each other so little that they just don't want to restrict it any further. Having two local partners while you are half of the time somewhere else doesn't seem that cool to me. OR, they don't are not quite ready to be out at their home town yet.
The only thing I would ask is what if his time split changes, but since you intend to not commit, you're probably less worried about that then I would be.
 
Have you actually met Draper yet?
 
Magdlyn said:
Have you actually met Draper yet?
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We met for happy hour last Thursday ... He's truly Draper-esque, with his ability to make you feel like you are the most beautiful woman in the world. I don't believe for a minute that he's really as head over heels for me as he pretends, after one date, but it feels nice even still to be showered in attention and compliments ;)

Tinwen said:
OR, since he's away half of the time, they see each other so little that they just don't want to restrict it any further. Having two local partners while you are half of the time somewhere else doesn't seem that cool to me. OR, they don't are not quite ready to be out at their home town yet.
The only thing I would ask is what if his time split changes, but since you intend to not commit, you're probably less worried about that then I would be.
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Those are good points... And yeah, I'm not expecting this to be a forever thing. I may feel differently later, but right now, I like knowing that at some point his work stuff will shift and we will come to a natural end. Or at least a natural shift to mostly platonic friends who maybe hook up once every few months. It's like a buffer against my worries about "how long will I be ok with once a week dates?" Because he'll probably stop spending so much time here long before my nesting instincts kick in lol.

It's actually something I've been pondering lately... How "bad" is it to want short term (a year or so, say) relationships instead of long term ones? I like dating people long enough to get close and comfortable, but there comes a point where it starts to just feel stagnant and frustrating to not do the relationship escalator thing :cool: This would all be a lot easier and more fun if my outside relationships just ended before I got to that sad, cranky, unfulfilled phase.

Edit: I don't mean set a clock on the first date and break up on some prearranged day... But just, give myself permission to break things off when I start to feel that way. Instead of trying to make myself be ok with dating someone for years without getting my nesting fix. Because it's not necessarily a case of wanting more than a guy will give - it's sometimes wanting more than I want to give.Feelings aren't rational lol.

Right now I'm just drawn to the idea of, I'll do this for as long as it's simple and fun for us both, and if/when that changes, let's just part on good terms instead of driving ourselves insane trying to make it work.
 
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You know, that's funny...

Things with my quad seemed really copacetic and chill and easy and groovy, until like a year in when it started feeling escalator-ish (emotionally) with Zen, and I started wigging out about not giving enough, getting enough, being enough, etc with the quad. Like "are we having sex enough? I don't think we're having sex enough. omg maybe Fire doesn't even like me! I'm so boring, I always fall asleep on the couch. And I haven't properly talked to Analyst in a month." Que: "Let's just be friends?" :eek:

Along with "So...think you might want to live together sometime...?" with Zen.

So I kinda feel ya on the whole, "Even if it's good, non escalator relationships might have kind of a shelf life to them."
 
I finished The Jealousy Workbook the other day... There were a few really helpful parts, but the book seemed written for long term couples opening up, and most of the coping strategies were only applicable to that situation. Kinda disappointing, as I don't feel much jealousy around Andy's other relationships, but have had crazy issues being the new person.

I hate being super critical - especially when I think the book could be very helpful for a lot of people - but seriously every example seemed the same. Bob and Sue (or Bob and Stu, there was lots of LGBTQ representation at least) are married and Bob is jealous of Sue's new lover. Bob does worksheets and realizes that he feels neglected because Sue is on the online chatting with her lover so much. Sue agrees to limit chatting to 30 minutes per night. They live happily ever after.

Um, okay. I mean, yay for Bob and Sue. Kinda sucks for Sue's other guy or girl, though, who just has to suck it up and accept the new rule. I dunno. I'll be honest, the book helped me see my feelings as more normal and natural. (I'll get to some of that in another post...) But it didn't do anything to shake my worry that in a lot of poly there is a winner and a loser, and somebody is going to end up getting shortchanged.
 
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