Jealousy, Envy, WTF

[KC43]

Hmm. Where do I start?

I've been doing poly for a little over five years. In that time, I've had four long-ish term relationships. My husband is monogamous. So were my first two boyfriends, though the first one had occasional no-strings no-emotion hookups with other women.

Then I met my current boyfriend...

He has been poly for a very long time. It's who he is. When I met him, he had three other partners, two of whom are still in his life. Over the nearly three years that he and I have been together, he's met several women online and has started relationships with a few of them, including one he's currently seeing.

I have issues. I'm the first to admit that. I have anxiety, depression, and PTSD. Because of some of the same factors that caused the PTSD, I have major trust issues and abandonment issues. I have a shit view of myself, which fluctuates from "yep, I'm complete shit" to "maybe I'm not as bad as I think I am." I also have a seriously negative history with other girls (when I was a girl) and women, mostly revolving around guys being interested in me when those girls/women were interested in the guys. This has resulted in bullying, me being depicted as a worthless slut, women--middle-aged women--telling men not to talk to me or else no one would want to be with them, and women trying to break up my relationships, including my current marriage. Because of that, I'm far less likely to trust women than men, and while I have female friends now, I keep them at more of a distance than I probably would if they were guys.

(I'm not saying that to whine. I'm giving some background; it's relevant to my question, I promise.)

Being with my boyfriend has been a MASSIVE learning curve, because I have had to face all of the above issues. He has other partners, and I had a very negative experience with one of them (who he is no longer involved with). I am constantly afraid that another woman will come along and convince him to break up with me, or he'll decide another woman is better for him than I am and give up on me, or he'll get sick of dealing with my issues (he's my primary emotional support), or... well, you get the idea.

He keeps saying he understands why I have the fears I have, and that it only bothers him in that he doesn't like to see me hurting. He also keeps saying that it's a process, and that it will get easier.

It's been almost three years. It hasn't gotten easier. EVERY TIME he starts seeing someone new, or even says he might start seeing someone, I lose my shit. The fears shove all rational thought out of the way, I cry, I rant... It isn't pretty.

Earlier this week, I had to cancel our regular date night because I wasn't feeling well enough to drive to his place. He said he would talk to me the next morning (we have a check-in phone call every weekday morning). When I called him the next morning, it turned out he was with one of his other partners.

I hung up on him, packed up the things he's loaned me (indefinite loans, for the duration of our relationship), took them to his place where I packed up all of my things that live over there. And went home, where I broke down on my (patient, long-suffering) husband.

Later, I called my boyfriend, who hadn't gotten home yet and hadn't listened to the voicemail I'd left him telling him we were done. We talked for a while, because I honestly wasn't--and still am not--sure I want to break up with him. What I do know is that I can't keep hurting the way I keep hurting because of this relationship.

I've done a LOT of thinking over the past few days, and here are the things I've realized:

He had every right to see his other partner when I canceled on him, but I felt like he had replaced me with her. I'd been feeling that with this particular partner anyway, because she's at his place more often than his other partners are, and he has told me all along that he wants me to think of his place as my home. But I'd been fighting off that feeling... until this week, when to my perception he actually *did* replace me with her.

I realized that part of my blow-up about it was that I had believed he would be home that night. I didn't find out that he'd decided to see his other partner until I called him the following morning, and then not until several minutes into the conversation. So part of my issue was being surprised with the information during our morning check-in call. I've asked him, assuming we stay together, in future, if I have to cancel with him, to please text me if he decides to get together with someone else so I'm not being surprised with it.

Part of my issue with that is the replacement thing, which feeds into my abandonment issues. If he can find alternate plans so easily when I cancel with him, what's stopping him from canceling our date night so he can see someone else? He knows doing that is one of my hard limits in any relationship; do NOT ever cancel with me to go have fun with someone else. (Canceling with me because someone else has an emergency, I'm fine with.)

But the other part of the issue is that he has other options... and I don't. When he isn't available on our date nights, and on the nights that *aren't* our date nights, I sit on my fat ass on my couch and watch TV with my cats. That is it. Once in a GREAT while I might find something else to do, but I don't have anyone else to make plans with. If he were to have to cancel with me last minute like I did with him this week, I have NO ONE I could call to say, "Hey, unexpectedly free tonight, want to get together?"

I have no one else who seems to want to get together with me at all. Guys I try to connect with end up flaking on me, sometimes after one meet-up, sometimes after a few months. Which feeds my insecurity, because that has always been the case, and many of those guys have said things like "We'll always be friends, I want to keep seeing you, I'll always be in your life"... and then they go away. Either they lied when they said it, or they changed their mind. And I am the common factor in all of that, and since I'm still me and I don't really know why those guys have done this, I figure I must just be a horrid person. And I don't believe my boyfriend when he says he won't leave me, because literally everyone else who has said that has left me. (My husband has been smart enough to never say it.)

I think I would have an easier time with my boyfriend seeing other people and having other options and so on if the same were true for me. If I knew that I had options on nights when I can't see him. If I had other partners. If I had friends I saw regularly. I've whined on here before about how hard it is for me to meet/connect with people. I'm having an easier time with the meeting, and somewhat easier with the connecting, but the connections usually only last for the duration of whatever event or such where I've met the person. I don't know how to carry it over into something ongoing, whether platonic friendship or something more.

I don't really know what I'm asking. I want to stop reacting so poorly when my boyfriend starts seeing new people. I want to stop feeling so much hurt and fear about his other relationships and potentials. I want to stop feeling so envious of his social skills and connections. I want to develop my own social--and relationshipish, and sexual--connections so I have other people to spend time with. I want to believe that people actually want me around and trust that they won't just leave the way so many other people have done. I want to believe that my metamours won't turn out to be like the one I had the negative experiences with or like the women I've had trouble with in the past.

I feel like breaking up with my boyfriend would solve the problems in that I then wouldn't have to deal with him seeing other people, or with constantly feeling like it's being shoved in my face that he has other people of various connections, and I have him. And occasionally my husband, if my husband is having one of his random "I should spend time with my wife" moments. But breaking up with him wouldn't solve the problem of not having other people to spend time with. It would just make that problem not as big an issue because I wouldn't keep seeing what he has and wishing I had that as well. He asked if I wanted to take a break for a month or so and see what it's like to not be in a relationship with him, but that doesn't feel right either.

So if you've read this whole long thing, I'm open to thoughts, suggestions, whatever.

Disclaimer: I process things by talking/typing. If someone makes a suggestion, I might look at every angle I can think of, and sometimes that comes across as arguing. And if it's something I have tried that didn't work, or something that I know for a fact wouldn't work, I'm going to say so, which also comes across as arguing. I want to make it clear up front that I will *not* be arguing, just either trying to figure out *how* something can work, or stating that I know it won't for whatever reason.

 

[Dagferi]

Love is meant to be the one thing which makes this world seem less scary and you less small.

Love is meant to lift you up, inspire you, and make you feel as if you can do anything. Love is meant to be the light when the rest of the universe seems so dark, so out of your control.

Love should never burden you, or punish you, or make you feel like a shell of the person you once were. Love should not feel like effort, like stressing over texts sent and read and not replied to. It should not feel like dates when you’re struggling to find the words to say or bedrooms cast in moonlight with only the silence stretched between you as you lay at opposite ends of the mattress. Love should not feel like a weight buried deep inside you or a constant unease which runs throughout your entire body.

Love needn’t feel like a battlefield, like shots fired and wounds so deep you will never heal.
Love should not be tearing each other apart, screaming words so poisonous they burn the tip of your tongue, and never being able to take them back.

Love should not be ultimatums, a scorecard or a competition. Love should not be jealous or unkind or malicious.

Love should be easy, should be like fireworks exploding inside your stomach, like those quiet Sunday mornings when the rest of the world is sleeping and the only thing that matters is how perfect your skin feels against theirs and how when you look into their eyes, it feels like coming home.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/rose-goodman/2017/03/love-shouldnt-be-so-hard/

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

My first question is why are you polyamorous?

I often ask people that when I meet them. Some give answers that sound like they are saying their need for emotional dependence is too much for one partner. I do not think that is a good reason to form polyamorous relationships. And those people often struggle to find supportive relationships because their need to 'dump' their emotional dependency on someone else is clear.

My honest thoughts are that your boyfriend is incredibly patient. But he isn't going to be able to Hinge so well forever without becoming drained. It is like a self fulfilling prophecy - you irrationally fear other people taking him away so have unreasonable expectations of him that will probably lead to that fear. Or at least his admission that he cannot be both your 'primary emotional support' and your healthy partner regardless of who else he sees.

You seem to have identified why you felt like that and my advice is that you have to expand your support network as well as work on your emotional resilience. I do get the feeling that you sort of say "I have done all the work discovering why I am the way I am and that is enough". Then you follow through with expectations of others to be a sort of crutch and fix these issues through acts of service and dedication. Even to people who are quite new to you and it probably does repel them at times. It seems like a lot of hard work for an unknown reward.

You are going to hate me but I do feel like you have to work on you. Was part of the reason you didn't see your boyfriend when you were unwell because of that ban of other partners you have in your house? If so, this is another thing your boyfriend is having to navigate. So your expectation is to cancel date night, not allow him to look after his unwell partner in her home and him sit at home doing nothing so as not to trigger your fears. And because he didn't, you had a meltdown.

I think you need to stop making excuses about why you cannot do things like branch out and meet new people, have new hobbies or a consistent vocation of some sort so your fear of being left does not come true. If your partner was able to be your partner more often than your carer, you would be able to see why he stays with you and these anxieties would reduce. Right now, while these things are going on, your fears are not unfounded.

So my advice is to really work on you so these things you need become obsolete. You can get there, but it will be painful and exhausting. I think you should take that month and remind yourself why you need to do it before he takes away that choice and starts to think he really isn't healthy for you.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Ohhhh... KC.

I've been there. I've done that. Please: don't be mean to yourself.

I've been on both sides of it. Like, I had a lover who was prone to flake, who flaked on me. It hurt me... so I went off & had a lovely evening by myself, with dinner & beer & a good band. I came home -- quite happy, actually -- to a series of voicemail messages, where the person she'd dropped me for had flaked on HER, & I wasn't there to pick up the pieces... & I felt quite good about life. It was a turning point in our relationship, where she was forced to realize that I'd get by quite fine without her. She had to step up & stop taking me as a "convenience," always "reliable."

Step back a moment. What is it that YOU NEED HERE?

(FWIW, watching TV with my cats is a happily significant portion of our life. )

 

[KC43]

SEASONEDpolyagain, thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm polyamorous because I'm polyamorous. That's like asking why I'm straight or cisgender. It's simply who I am.

If your question is why do I *do* polyamory, it's because I lived monogamously for a couple of decades and always felt off-balance and like something in me was missing. Having only one partner feels counterintuitive to me, and has since I was a child. Having more than one partner, even when it's difficult or painful, makes me feel "right," for want of a better word.

I do work on myself. I have been working on myself. And I am a work in progress. I don't expect anyone to "fix" anything or be my crutch. All I ask for from my partners is that they, within the bounds of their abilities and emotional bandwidth, listen to me when I am struggling and offer me reassurance and comfort. For some, that might be too much. That's fine; they and I wouldn't be compatible. I own my shit, I do my work, I only ask for help and support from my loved ones. I don't ask them to do the work for me.

My boyfriend has been with me for nearly three years. He is a caretaker type; he has had other partners in the past who had more needs and less ability to manage their issues than I have, and stayed with them until *they* chose to leave. He is the one who says, when I start talking about not being good at poly, that I'm fine, I'm just learning his way of poly-ing, and he's happy to work with me until I get where I want to be. He also makes it clear that *he* doesn't expect me to "get there," he just hopes I will because it's what I want.

He is not always my carer, nor is my husband. The vast majority of the time I spend with my boyfriend is spent as partners, enjoying each other's company. And I do an equal amount of caretaking of him; it isn't a one-sided thing where he's always taking care of me and I'm always saying "poor me, I'm helpless." Until I met my husband, I was the ONLY one taking care of myself, including as a child; I certainly am not helpless. And as for "allowing" him to take care of me the other night, I don't "allow" anyone to do anything. They're adults; they make their own choices. But when I'm physically ill, as I was that night (migraine and fibro flare, exacerbated by our heat wave), I prefer to be left alone to take care of myself, other than asking Hubby to run errands for me if something needs to be done immediately. You also seem, with that statement, to be assuming my boyfriend would have *wanted* to take care of me that night if he'd had the option.

My boyfriend, incidentally, prefers having me go to his house. It's a much larger space, plus I have cats and he's severely allergic. And he respects my husband, so doesn't want to intrude on my husband's space.

I stated in my first post... my expectation was NOT that he would sit at home doing nothing. My BELIEF was that that was what he would do, because he didn't indicate otherwise and because I knew he had something going on the next day that he needed to prepare for, so I made the assumption that he would stay home to prepare for it. (Which he also would have done if I'd kept the date, by the way; at least half of the night would have been spent with him preparing for this and me sitting there twiddling *my* thumbs.) My meltdown, as I said, was more because the "I'm with my other partner" was dropped on me in the middle of a phone call, rather than my having been told up front, than because he'd done it at all. And it was also partly because, as he knows, I do not like having phone conversations with him when he has someone else in the room with him; I want our conversations to be private. Though I admittedly do have an issue with feeling like I'm being replaced by someone else, and this is something I've talked to him about before, having been on the other side of it (he had a partner who routinely canceled on him, and a few of those times, he called me to see if I was free; I told him I felt like he was using me to replace her on those occasions).

I am aware I need to expand my support network. My question is how to do that. As for "making excuses"... yes, sometimes I do. But most times, those excuses (lack of funds, health issues flaring up) are valid. And saying I don't know how to make and maintain connections isn't an excuse, it's a statement of fact. It's something I'm trying to learn, but "socialing" doesn't come automatically for me. As a younger adult, I literally had to be taught how to make small talk, and it's only been about a decade since someone took the time to explain to me that when someone asks "How are you" they don't want an actual answer, they're just being polite. And yes, I had to be told that; it wasn't something I was able to realize on my own.

I don't hate you, and I'm not angry, but you seem to have gotten some impressions that are simply not the case. That's probably on me in part, because I don't always explain things clearly, but it's also because you don't know me or my partners, and so seem to be filling in gaps with assumptions and speculations. I feel like I'm being presented in your post as a helpless little whineass who expects everyone to do everything for her, and that is definitely not who I am. If I were, I literally wouldn't be alive right now, let alone capable of living a functional, usually happy, life.

 

[KC43]

Ravenscroft, thank you for your kind reply. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had to navigate something like this. (And that I'm not the only one who watches TV with their cats. LOL)

I think what I *need* are better coping strategies (which I'm trying to learn) and additional people in my social network, or rather people who I actually spend face-to-face time with since I have a fairly large social network but it's all online. What I *want* is to be able to be happy for my boyfriend when he has time with his other partners, or finds new partners, without feeling the fears I feel now. I *am* happy for him, it's just counterbalanced and sometimes outweighed by my fears for myself.

 

[ref2018]

I feel as if I'm being misrepresented here as a whiny, helpless little thing

You've misrepresented *yourself* that way.


It does come across as controlling that your boyfriend has to notify you just because he decided to do something other than what you *assumed* he would be doing, after *you* cancelled your plans for that time. What if he was with his friends instead of his other partner? Does he have to check in with you every time he does something other than staying home watching TV?

I don't care what the answers are, this is for you to think about.

 

[KC43]

I did say that the incorrect perceptions were due at least in part to my not clearly expressing myself.

To you, it seems controlling that I want to be informed if he's seeing another partner on a night that would ordinarily be ours. To me, and to him, it falls under our mutual agreements about what information we share with each other, agreements that have been in place for our entire relationship and which go both ways.

Of course he doesn't have to check in with me every time he doesn't stay home. This isn't a typical situation. This was a situation where he and I didn't communicate clearly, and which intruded on my fear of being replaced by one of his other partners. To you and to others, that still might seem unreasonable or like I'm trying to make him responsible for my emotions and reactions, and I can understand that. *He* doesn't consider it unreasonable to let me know if he's seeing someone else on what would usually be our night, and he's the one actually in the position of needing to determine that. I don't need to know his every move, but if it's a move that is "replacing" his time with me, I would like to know, especially if it impacts our morning phone call since he knows I prefer not to call him if he's with someone else.

 

[lunabunny]

Then I met my current boyfriend... When I met him, he had three other partners, two of whom are still in his life.

I have issues. I'm the first to admit that. I have anxiety, depression, and PTSD. Because of some of the same factors that caused the PTSD, I have major trust issues and abandonment issues.


Being with my boyfriend has been a MASSIVE learning curve, because I have had to face all of the above issues. He keeps saying he understands why I have the fears I have... He also keeps saying that it's a process, and that it will get easier.

It's been almost three years. It hasn't gotten easier. EVERY TIME he starts seeing someone new, or even says he might start seeing someone, I lose my shit. The fears shove all rational thought out of the way, I cry, I rant... It isn't pretty.

But the other part of the issue is that he has other options... and I don't. When he isn't available ... I sit on my fat ass on my couch and watch TV with my cats. That is it.

I get it because I am much the same way.

Even though my male partner is monogamous with me, I've been known to go into "melt-down mode" if there is even any hint that he is starting to take a special interest in a female friend or is spending a lot of time with someone who seems like she'd be "his type".

The reasons for this are because: 1.) in the past, I've been cheated on in some of the worst ways possible... 2.) when we first started Jester didn't tell me up-front that he was involved sexually with Boho, who was at that time a mutual friend... 3.) I also suffer from high anxiety, depression and trust/abandonment issues.

In your case, KC43, you have another partner (your husband) and your boyfriend sounds like he is a very caring, understanding and supportive person. You've been together three years now, and he already has other partners. If he wanted to leave, he's had plenty of opportunity to do so.

This is the logical perspective, of course, and feelings aren't always logical. U

What you have to fight is the irrational anxieties that plague you, because if you don't combat them to some degree, unfortunately such fears and intense reactions can become a self-fulfilling prophecy over time. (On the other hand, rational anxiety and jealousy sometimes have a place if they're based on fact or experience.) So DO continue to work on constructive ways to deal with these irrational fears and thoughts with your therapist.

I would also suggest developing other interests and friends outside of your romantic relationships, which you enjoy for their own sakes, and on which you can focus and use to fill in time when your partners are not available.

As for HOW to go about doing this, I'm not really sure as I am kind of agoraphobic and suffer from social anxiety. However, there must be hobbies, sports, music, movies, pets and other things that grab your interest. Maybe join clubs or online groups that focus on these subjects or activities.

If you don't particularly get along with or trust female friends, develop platonic friendships with your male friends, new or old, and see them socially whenever you have the inclination and energy. If people judge or gossip, that's on them. Try to take the focus OFF romantic relationships and just live life.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW, here are my impressions. I don't know if they help you any.

You seem to recognize you got upset because you assumed that after you canceled the date, he'd be home doing his prep stuff for work. Instead, he opted to go out anyway.

Could you change your expectation/belief? That if you cancel plans, he now has free time. And you expect/believe he's gonna go do whatever he wants in his free time. He could sleep, go shopping, see friends, see his other partners. See if changing it helps you feel more at ease because then you aren't caught by surprise.

I didn't find out that he'd decided to see his other partner until I called him the following morning, and then not until several minutes into the conversation.

This is not enough space. He WAS telling you, as soon as possible. He might not have decided to go out til well after you canceled. Late night diner or whatever and didn't want to wake you from sleep just to tell he had pancakes with his other partner.

But a few minutes into the morning call and then you get mad? Dude, give him at least "somewhere in the next phone call." Be a little more generous and slower to anger. Give some space for the things you want to happen (an update ASAP) to happen IN.

The other thing that seems to upset you is that when you heard about what he did that night, you thought "I am being replaced" rather than "Oh, he did stuff in his free time. I expect/believe he will do that in his free time."

You could stop taking things personally like something is being done TO you rather than just some things happening? When you view the world and its happenings as things being done to you? It's hard to ever feel safe and secure. You might end up always on alert to see what other doom will come. Hypervigilance can be exhausting.

I mean, doom things sometimes do happen to people. But you don't have to fuel it extra. The downward spiral of thoughts -- starting with you thinking you are being replaced and then moving on you envying his social skills, his connections, etc? That part you didn't have to pursue.

Did doing that line of thinking ADD to your "safe and secure" or TAKE AWAY?

I've asked him, assuming we stay together, in future, if I have to cancel with him, to please text me if he decides to get together with someone else so I'm not being surprised with it.

Rather than giving away (your ability to feel peace of mind) to (him doing check ins)? You could change your expectation/belief that he will do whatever when he has free time. Including seeing his other people.

If you (expect him to/believe he will do other stuff in his free time) then you are (never surprised by it should you hear about it). The ability to feel peace of mind remains in your hands.

If he can find alternate plans so easily when I cancel with him, what's stopping him from canceling our date night so he can see someone else?

Nothing. Other than him keeping his Word since he promised you he would not do that. His track record on keeping his Word over 3 years is what? Sounds alright.

You could learn to talk BACK to the "worry voice" when it pops up in your head. It does not have to have the driver's seat.

He knows doing that is one of my hard limits in any relationship; do NOT ever cancel with me to go have fun with someone else. (Canceling with me because someone else has an emergency, I'm fine with.)

There you go. If he does that? It's a deal breaker hard limit. You already know how to handle it should it happened. You will be safe.

I have anxiety, depression, and PTSD. Because of some of the same factors that caused the PTSD, I have major trust issues and abandonment issues.

Have you considered changing the language? Because when you say "I have major trust issues, etc" it's like you have them and will never be rid of them. Gives away your power over your life to the "issues" rather than you keeping the power over your life in your own hands.

If you start to say "I have to manage my ______" then yeah, you still have things to deal with. But the power over your life and over your issues remains in your hands. YOU can choose to manage right now or not manage them right now.

You might have X condition, but it doesn't have to have YOU.

You are not your medical conditions. You are not thoughts or your feelings. You are a person who has to manage some medical issues. You are the person doing some thinking. You are a person experiencing some feelings and either choosing to react to them, respond to them, or ignoring them.

Put YOU back in the driver's seat. See if that helps you feel more secure in yourself and helps you create more peace of mind.

Whatever approach you take, def be kinder to yourself.

Galagirl

 

[Dagferi]

KC...

I have PTSD, anxiety, and depression. It sucks.

You need to find something outside your husband and boyfriend to fill the void and quiet the voices of loathing and self doubt.
I too do not get along with many women. I do not hate or distrust women my hobbies do not typically attract women.

For me my animals are my life line. I enjoy caring for them. For me scooping dog poop, cleaning litter boxes, scrubbing bird poop, and etc is therapeutic.

Honestly I had been in a depression spiral lately. I lost my heart dog to old age in April. I have been heart broken and quietly suffering. All I wanted to do is cry, but my other pets still needed care. (My kids and husbands are wonderful and take care of the pets too but not they way I do it if you know what I mean.) They made me get out of bed and face the day because they needed me.

A week ago I was out to buy bird supplies for the parrot and cockatiel. When I saw a baby ferret. I had a ferret as a child have taken care of many in my years in Zoology and Veterinary medicine. But something about this little dude called to me. I asked to pet and hold him. Butch said something in my eyes changed. Butch looked at the owner and said get him ready to go home..

Toby has been a blessing. He makes me laugh with his antics. He needs me for his care and training. He gives me something else to focus on.

For my introvert middle son. Music is his escape. He will put in his earbuds and get lost in his favorite band.or play his guitar.

For my youngest it is legos and his cat.

Butch it is World of Warcraft.

Murf it is muscle cars, sleep, and his dog.

You just need to find what brings you Zen.

 

[KC43]

I get it because I am much the same way.

Even though my male partner is monogamous with me, I've been known to go into "melt-down mode" if there is even any hint that he is starting to take a special interest in a female friend or is spending a lot of time with someone who seems like she'd be "his type".

The reasons for this are because: 1.) in the past, I've been cheated on in some of the worst ways possible... 2.) when we first started Jester didn't tell me up-front that he was involved sexually with Boho, who was at that time a mutual friend... 3.) I also suffer from high anxiety, depression and trust/abandonment issues.

In your case, KC43, you have another partner (your husband) and your boyfriend sounds like he is a very caring, understanding and supportive person. You've been together three years now, and he already has other partners. If he wanted to leave, he's had plenty of opportunity to do so.

This is the logical perspective, of course, and feelings aren't always logical. U

What you have to fight is the irrational anxieties that plague you, because if you don't combat them to some degree, unfortunately such fears and intense reactions can become a self-fulfilling prophecy over time. (On the other hand, rational anxiety and jealousy sometimes have a place if they're based on fact or experience.) So DO continue to work on constructive ways to deal with these irrational fears and thoughts with your therapist.

I would also suggest developing other interests and friends outside of your romantic relationships, which you enjoy for their own sakes, and on which you can focus and use to fill in time when your partners are not available.

As for HOW to go about doing this, I'm not really sure as I am kind of agoraphobic and suffer from social anxiety. However, there must be hobbies, sports, music, movies, pets and other things that grab your interest. Maybe join clubs or online groups that focus on these subjects or activities.

If you don't particularly get along with or trust female friends, develop platonic friendships with your male friends, new or old, and see them socially whenever you have the inclination and energy. If people judge or gossip, that's on them. Try to take the focus OFF romantic relationships and just live life.

This is all good advice. Thank you. I want to form more friendships with women, as well as with men. Right now, I only have two platonic male friends I ever see, and I only see one of them once or twice a year; all others are either just online or they're "friends" in the sense of "we're friendly to each other when we run into each other at events, rather in the "I can talk to and spend time with this person" sense.

I am definitely working on replacing the irrational thoughts/fears with logic. Sometimes I'm able to do so. Sometimes I'm able to say to Hubby or my boyfriend, "Hey, I'm thinking this thing that I *know* is irrational, could you please give me a reality check?" But it's still a work in progress, though I've made a lot of progress over the past few years.

I deal with social anxiety too. That's the biggest part of what hampers me in my ability to meet people. I am trying to get out more to local munches and that sort of thing, because at least there I'm likely to meet people with whom I have something in common. I don't really have any hobbies, and one of the other things on which I'm working is being able to identify what my interests actually are, because when someone asks me what I'm interested in, I don't usually have an answer.

And living life is the biggest thing I'm working on, and what all of these other things are components of. I *want* to live a life where either those fears don't crop up, or if they do, I'm better at managing them. I *want* to live a life where I don't walk into events and freeze when I try to talk to someone, and where when I do talk to people, it carries over into "Hey, let's exchange numbers and do coffee sometime" or something like that. And I want to live a life where I don't get so hung up on what other people think or might say about me, and just live the life I feel is right for me, which includes not knowingly doing anything harmful to anyone else.

 

[KC43]

I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW, here are my impressions. I don't know if they help you any.

You seem to recognize you got upset because you assumed that after you canceled the date, he'd be home doing his prep stuff for work. Instead, he opted to go out anyway.

Could you change your expectation/belief? That if you cancel plans, he now has free time. And you expect/believe he's gonna go do whatever he wants in his free time. He could sleep, go shopping, see friends, see his other partners. See if changing it helps you feel more at ease because then you aren't caught by surprise.

That is definitely a mental shift I can work on making. It is very rare for me to cancel plans, so this isn't something that's come up before. The only other time I've had to cancel with him was due to a blizzard this winter, when obviously he didn't go out and do anything else either; other than that, our plans only get canceled if he's out of town. And he tries not to be out of town on our date night. So it wasn't really something that had occurred to me before as a possibility.

I think even if I make that mental shift, though, I would still prefer knowing if he goes to see another partner if I cancel with him, if for no other reason than as I said a couple of posts ago, I prefer not to call him when he's with someone else, and it's hard not to do that if I don't *know* he's with someone else. I have access to his calendar for the same reason; he puts planned dates, times with friends, etc. on his calendar for his own benefit, but being able to see those things helps me ensure that I'm not interrupting his time with others by calling or texting unless it's an emergency.

This is not enough space. He WAS telling you, as soon as possible. He might not have decided to go out til well after you canceled. Late night diner or whatever and didn't want to wake you from sleep just to tell he had pancakes with his other partner.

But a few minutes into the morning call and then you get mad? Dude, give him at least "somewhere in the next phone call." Be a little more generous and slower to anger. Give some space for the things you want to happen (an update ASAP) to happen IN.

I understand what you're saying, but I didn't expect him to call me and wake me up. He told me that as soon as I canceled, he started calling around to find someone else to see that night. When those plans were made, he could have sent a text saying, "I'm going to see (this person) tonight," and that would have been fine. One of the shifts I need to make in my thinking is that if he doesn't tell me something up front, I feel like he's hiding information from me; that is my problem, and I am working on it, but I still don't see a reason for him not to text me about a new plan, or at least tell me at the beginning of a phone call instead of after several minutes of me talking about something private that I don't want a metamour hearing his responses to.

The other thing that seems to upset you is that when you heard about what he did that night, you thought "I am being replaced" rather than "Oh, he did stuff in his free time. I expect/believe he will do that in his free time."

You could stop taking things personally like something is being done TO you rather than just some things happening? When you view the world and its happenings as things being done to you? It's hard to ever feel safe and secure. You might end up always on alert to see what other doom will come. Hypervigilance can be exhausting.

I mean, doom things sometimes do happen to people. But you don't have to fuel it extra. The downward spiral of thoughts -- starting with you thinking you are being replaced and then moving on you envying his social skills, his connections, etc? That part you didn't have to pursue.

Did doing that line of thinking ADD to your "safe and secure" or TAKE AWAY?

There's emotional thought and there's rational thought. On an *emotional* level, based in the issues that I have, it *felt* like I was being replaced. Not I thought, "Oh, see, he's replacing me," but that was how it felt on a deep level. On a *rational* level, I was able to see that that wasn't the case, which is why I identified it as one of the problems with the situation and therefore one of the things I'm trying to solve.

Sometimes making those mental shifts is easy. Sometimes it isn't. But I do try.

I don't think I pursued those things into a downward spiral, though I'm open to the possibility that I did. My intention in following the line of thought, as with many things, was saying, "I have this problem and don't understand why, and that really bothers me. I want to know *why*, because knowing where the problem is rooted makes it easier to find a solution.

Rather than giving away (your ability to feel peace of mind) to (him doing check ins)? You could change your expectation/belief that he will do whatever when he has free time. Including seeing his other people.

If you (expect him to/believe he will do other stuff in his free time) then you are (never surprised by it should you hear about it). The ability to feel peace of mind remains in your hands.

I am having a negative emotional reaction to the idea that I should expect him to just do whatever he wants in a situation where we had plans that got changed, and not care what he does or why. I require openness, honesty, and information in a relationship, and I'm genuinely not able to understand the relationship anarchistic thinking of "Everyone does what they want and no one has to tell anyone anything." So I need to think more about this. (I'm definitely not disagreeing with you; I need to do some more mental examination to figure out why that idea bothers me so much.)

Nothing. Other than him keeping his Word since he promised you he would not do that. His track record on keeping his Word over 3 years is what? Sounds alright.

You could learn to talk BACK to the "worry voice" when it pops up in your head. It does not have to have the driver's seat.

That is something I need to learn, certainly. And I need to work on believing he will keep his word. Against that, I'm fighting the fact that he is not the first person to make me that promise and then break it. He isn't those other people, and that's something I need to shift in my mind.

Have you considered changing the language? Because when you say "I have major trust issues, etc" it's like you have them and will never be rid of them. Gives away your power over your life to the "issues" rather than you keeping the power over your life in your own hands.

If you start to say "I have to manage my ______" then yeah, you still have things to deal with. But the power over your life and over your issues remains in your hands. YOU can choose to manage right now or not manage them right now.

You might have X condition, but it doesn't have to have YOU.

You are not your medical conditions. You are not thoughts or your feelings. You are a person who has to manage some medical issues. You are the person doing some thinking. You are a person experiencing some feelings and either choosing to react to them, respond to them, or ignoring them.

Put YOU back in the driver's seat. See if that helps you feel more secure in yourself and helps you create more peace of mind.

Whatever approach you take, def be kinder to yourself.

Galagirl

Thank you very much, sincerely, for the examples of rewording. I do need to remember that I am not my conditions. I make progress in that area fairly regularly, and then something comes along that throws me off-balance, and I fall back into these old patterns. Again, that is something I have been working on and intend to continue working on, and thank you for calling it to my attention.

 

[KC43]

KC...

I have PTSD, anxiety, and depression. It sucks.

You need to find something outside your husband and boyfriend to fill the void and quiet the voices of loathing and self doubt.
I too do not get along with many women. I do not hate or distrust women my hobbies do not typically attract women.

For me my animals are my life line. I enjoy caring for them. For me scooping dog poop, cleaning litter boxes, scrubbing bird poop, and etc is therapeutic.

Honestly I had been in a depression spiral lately. I lost my heart dog to old age in April. I have been heart broken and quietly suffering. All I wanted to do is cry, but my other pets still needed care. (My kids and husbands are wonderful and take care of the pets too but not they way I do it if you know what I mean.) They made me get out of bed and face the day because they needed me.

A week ago I was out to buy bird supplies for the parrot and cockatiel. When I saw a baby ferret. I had a ferret as a child have taken care of many in my years in Zoology and Veterinary medicine. But something about this little dude called to me. I asked to pet and hold him. Butch said something in my eyes changed. Butch looked at the owner and said get him ready to go home..

Toby has been a blessing. He makes me laugh with his antics. He needs me for his care and training. He gives me something else to focus on.

For my introvert middle son. Music is his escape. He will put in his earbuds and get lost in his favorite band.or play his guitar.

For my youngest it is legos and his cat.

Butch it is World of Warcraft.

Murf it is muscle cars, sleep, and his dog.

You just need to find what brings you Zen.

Thank you, Dagferi. I'm sorry for your loss and I'm glad you have Toby.

I am looking for things that I can do that bring me joy or at least peace, and that's an ongoing journey. Off and on, I lose joy in things that previously brought me joy. Writing is one of those things, something which was my lifeline most of my life until a few years ago, and I've been working lately with a coach and within myself trying to get that joy back. I'm also looking at other activities to see what else I can find that might draw my interest and give me something enjoyable on which to focus.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped some.

I don't think I pursued those things into a downward spiral, though I'm open to the possibility that I did. My intention in following the line of thought, as with many things, was saying, "I have this problem and don't understand why, and that really bothers me. I want to know *why*, because knowing where the problem is rooted makes it easier to find a solution.*

Perhaps the (wanting to know why to that degree) is part of the problem? Like not everything needs to be super precise or super analyzed.
Like making cookies. More or less 1 tsp vanilla is good enough to work out. It doesn't have to be SO precise that you measure out vanilla in drops to be sure it was 98.58 drops.

And some things are just not comfortable. But there's nothing to "solve." I don't love getting allergy shots. They are not comfortable. But there's nothing there to "solve" about it. I put up with minor stink in the short term so in the long term I can do better with pollen.

Sometimes it is ok to feel uncomfortable and go "Well, that felt uncomfortable. I'm choosing to let that one slide by without analysis. If it keeps ON happening, then I'll look at it more closely. But I'm letting it go for now." I think this is like that. Because

The only other time I've had to cancel with him was due to a blizzard this winter, when obviously he didn't go out and do anything else either; other than that, our plans only get canceled if he's out of town. And he tries not to be out of town on our date night. So it wasn't really something that had occurred to me before as a possibility.

No need to analyze too deep or seek things to "solve." It was just a new situation because you rarely cancel.

I still don't see a reason for him not to text me about a new plan, or at least tell me at the beginning of a phone call instead of after several minutes of me talking about something private that I don't want a metamour hearing his responses to.

At the start of the call vs several minutes later... what happens that is different? Why do you need this to be this precise?

I require openness, honesty, and information in a relationship, and I'm genuinely not able to understand the relationship anarchistic thinking of "Everyone does what they want and no one has to tell anyone anything."*

I'm not saying to go to total anarchy. I'm saying try a looser, more relaxed turn around time to see if that might serve you better OVER time.

If it is hard for him to meet the expectation to text immediately because it is too fast? And you worry he won't be able to keep it up and will break his promise?

Could it be loosened to expect a heads up that plans changed within 48 hours? Could that be "soon enough" to feel ok and like you are being updated and kept informed? But “looser” turnaround time for him so it makes it more doable on his side so you don't have to worry that he won't keep his promise?

And on your side... Eventually you may have to stretch yourself if you want to become more emotionally resilient and more able to take unexpected bumps.

Right now you have daily morning calls. Which is a lot of calls. That might work for now to assuage your stress. But OVER time... how does keeping that high frequency of calls help you become more resilient and more able to go for longer stretches without stressing out? You don't seem to deliberately stretch your abilities so you can grow. Then the unexpected stuff doesn't have to throw you for a loop as badly.

Expecting near instant updates is hard to deliver forever on his side. And might inadvertently be keeping you amped up/limiting your "stretch." Like... it solves (stress) in the short term, but ends up dinging your (resiliency) in the bigger picture?

Against that, I'm fighting the fact that he is not the first person to make me that promise and then break it. He isn't those other people, and that's something I need to shift in my mind.*

That is correct. He isn't those other people. Taking a small risk by “loosening” the timeframe a bit might help make it more keepable for him and start to give you space to grow too. Not all the way out to "anarchy anything goes." But just a bit wider time frame.

Perhaps pair that with remembering that YOU are in charge, YOU choose to manage your conditions right now or not.

If the anxiety starts to flare up, you could tell self “Ok, Anxiety. You can flare up SOME, but this is too early. It's not been 24-48 hours yet. Don't jump the gun here. And if you get too rowdy I'm cutting you off before you wake up PTSD and depression. I don't need a cacaphony in here with all conditions flaring at once. ”

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi KC43,

It seems that you have some involuntary fears about your boyfriend abandoning you for someone else. To alleviate this fear, you need him to tell you right away if he is seeing someone else instead of you on a particular occasion. He did not tell you right away. He let you down. This is the reason why you were going to break up with him. I can understand. And maybe you would feel better if you had things to do while he did his things, but that's not the case right now.

I sure do agree with Dagferi's quote in her first post here. Love shouldn't be so hard.

Maybe the thing to do right now is to work on your options. That is, work on having alternative stuff to do whenever you and your boyfriend do have to cancel. Be patient with yourself. You have many issues to work around. Maybe you will only develop other things to do a little at a time. But try to think of stuff you would enjoy doing, and see if there aren't any local groups nearby, such as clubs, that do that stuff.

You know this is something you want to work on. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to work on it. Easier said than done. I do have sympathy for the difficult times you are going through.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[vinsanity0]

KC, one thing I've noticed about you is that you quite rationally figure out whatever it is that causes you problems. The trouble is it's always in the aftermath.

I suffer from anxiety and, lately, depression. Even though I recognize this as things are happening, it is very easy to just let it happen. I really have to reach into myself to overcome it as it is happening. I'm just working on this myself with no real idea what I am doing. I've found that clearing my head and viewing myself with a sort of detachment allows my rational mind to overcome my irrational thoughts.

I don't know if any of this is helpful but I feel your pain.

 

[KC43]

Glad it helped some.

Perhaps the (wanting to know why to that degree) is part of the problem? Like not everything needs to be super precise or super analyzed.
Like making cookies. More or less 1 tsp vanilla is good enough to work out. It doesn't have to be SO precise that you measure out vanilla in drops to be sure it was 98.58 drops.

And some things are just not comfortable. But there's nothing to "solve." I don't love getting allergy shots. They are not comfortable. But there's nothing there to "solve" about it. I put up with minor stink in the short term so in the long term I can do better with pollen.

Sometimes it is ok to feel uncomfortable and go "Well, that felt uncomfortable. I'm choosing to let that one slide by without analysis. If it keeps ON happening, then I'll look at it more closely. But I'm letting it go for now." I think this is like that.

I understand what you're saying. I see the way I feel about this particular situation, and the way I feel about his having other partners in general, as a big problem, and it's a thing on which I want to work. I don't think I can work on it if I don't know the root of the issue, or at least without actually knowing what the issue *is*, which is what I was trying to figure out. The issue wasn't *really* that he didn't let me know he was seeing his other partner that night; it was--is--that I don't have enough trust in him not to allow someone else to replace me, because of my own insecurities.

That said, I don't disagree that I might have overanalyzed some aspects of this.

At the start of the call vs several minutes later... what happens that is different? Why do you need this to be this precise?

Because as I said, I prefer not to talk to him if he's with someone else. I started a conversation with him on the belief that he was alone, and that therefore whatever I said was private. I wouldn't have started that conversation if I'd known he was with his other partner. I think it's courtesy to let someone know if you're with someone else when you're talking to them; at least, I personally would always let someone who calls me know if there's somebody else present. When I call someone, I have an expectation that the call is between the two of us, not between the two of us plus whoever else is in the room, and I want to know if that expectation isn't being met. It isn't about when I found out he saw his other partner; it's about when I found out he was WITH HER when I called him.

I'm not saying to go to total anarchy. I'm saying try a looser, more relaxed turn around time to see if that might serve you better OVER time.

If it is hard for him to meet the expectation to text immediately because it is too fast? And you worry he won't be able to keep it up and will break his promise?

Could it be loosened to expect a heads up that plans changed within 48 hours? Could that be "soon enough" to feel ok and like you are being updated and kept informed? But “looser” turnaround time for him so it makes it more doable on his side so you don't have to worry that he won't keep his promise?

And on your side... Eventually you may have to stretch yourself if you want to become more emotionally resilient and more able to take unexpected bumps.

I agree with your last paragraph. However, I still don't think--and my boyfriend doesn't either, or at least says he doesn't--that it's unreasonable to ask him to let me know if he's seeing someone else on our date night, at the time that he makes those plans. As noted above, it's a rare occurrence anyway. But when I made this request of him, he said he didn't have a problem with it. I'm not asking him to call me, just send a quick text.

Right now you have daily morning calls. Which is a lot of calls. That might work for now to assuage your stress. But OVER time... how does keeping that high frequency of calls help you become more resilient and more able to go for longer stretches without stressing out? You don't seem to deliberately stretch your abilities so you can grow. Then the unexpected stuff doesn't have to throw you for a loop as badly.

The daily phone calls aren't about finding out what he's doing with whom, or anything like that. They were his suggestion, as a way of helping *both of us* prepare for our day. If we were living together, I'm pretty sure we would say "Good morning, honey, how are you doing, what's going on with you for today?" Since we don't live together, we call each other instead to say those things. It is a time when one of us might bring up a problem that we need to resolve, but most of the time it's just "Good morning, what's up for you today, hope your day goes well." In my dynamic, I consider my boyfriend's place in my life as equal to my husband's; this is something my boyfriend agrees to. I talk to my husband before he goes to work each day; I talk to my boyfriend before he goes to work each day.

Expecting near instant updates is hard to deliver forever on his side. And might inadvertently be keeping you amped up/limiting your "stretch." Like... it solves (stress) in the short term, but ends up dinging your (resiliency) in the bigger picture?

I agree with the last bit of this. As for the updates being hard to deliver, as I said, this request only applies to the very specific, and very rare, occurrence of me having to cancel our date night and him deciding to see another partner. And it is partly so that I don't interrupt his time with that other partner.

That is correct. He isn't those other people. Taking a small risk by “loosening” the timeframe a bit might help make it more keepable for him and start to give you space to grow too. Not all the way out to "anarchy anything goes." But just a bit wider time frame.

Perhaps pair that with remembering that YOU are in charge, YOU choose to manage your conditions right now or not.

If the anxiety starts to flare up, you could tell self “Ok, Anxiety. You can flare up SOME, but this is too early. It's not been 24-48 hours yet. Don't jump the gun here. And if you get too rowdy I'm cutting you off before you wake up PTSD and depression. I don't need a cacaphony in here with all conditions flaring at once. ”

Galagirl

This makes sense. Thank you.

 

[KC43]

Hi KC43,

It seems that you have some involuntary fears about your boyfriend abandoning you for someone else. To alleviate this fear, you need him to tell you right away if he is seeing someone else instead of you on a particular occasion. He did not tell you right away. He let you down. This is the reason why you were going to break up with him. I can understand. And maybe you would feel better if you had things to do while he did his things, but that's not the case right now.

I sure do agree with Dagferi's quote in her first post here. Love shouldn't be so hard.

Maybe the thing to do right now is to work on your options. That is, work on having alternative stuff to do whenever you and your boyfriend do have to cancel. Be patient with yourself. You have many issues to work around. Maybe you will only develop other things to do a little at a time. But try to think of stuff you would enjoy doing, and see if there aren't any local groups nearby, such as clubs, that do that stuff.

You know this is something you want to work on. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to work on it. Easier said than done. I do have sympathy for the difficult times you are going through.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

To clarify, I hadn't asked him previously to tell me right away--or at all--if he is seeing someone else instead of me if I cancel our date night. It hadn't been a thing that happened before, because the only other time I've canceled was due to a blizzard. The request that he tell me right away is for any *future* occasions where this occurs, and only if it's a case where I've had to cancel our date night and he's decided to see someone else. So he didn't let me down on this occasion.

I was going to break up with him because I feel like I don't appropriately or effectively manage my reactions to various aspects of the way he does poly, and although I have made progress in how I handle it and I continue working on it, I *feel* on an emotional level like I'm not getting anywhere. If you're in a situation that continually causes pain, you leave the situation. It also isn't fair to *him* when I have a negative reaction to a situation. So part of the reason for breaking up was so I wouldn't have to deal with the pain generated by the relationship, and part of it was so *he* wouldn't have to deal with *me*.

I am trying to expand my options, but it seems more difficult than it sounds.

Thank you.

 

[KC43]

KC, one thing I've noticed about you is that you quite rationally figure out whatever it is that causes you problems. The trouble is it's always in the aftermath.

I suffer from anxiety and, lately, depression. Even though I recognize this as things are happening, it is very easy to just let it happen. I really have to reach into myself to overcome it as it is happening. I'm just working on this myself with no real idea what I am doing. I've found that clearing my head and viewing myself with a sort of detachment allows my rational mind to overcome my irrational thoughts.

I don't know if any of this is helpful but I feel your pain.

Thank you. I'm sorry you're having to deal with anxiety and depression.

Letting go of the attachment to why things happen, and to the outcome of things, is something I'm working on. To some extent I do want to know why I feel a certain way about something, because I perceive that as helping me figure out *how* to work on it. But I do go overboard at times.