Just don't know what to do

Thank you all. You have given me a lot to think about.

I have come to the conclusion that the position she has put me in is not fair. I should not have to make this choice for her. When we get time this weekend, I'm going to talk to her. I want to let her know that

1. It isn't fair for her to put me in this position
2. At this point, I am not okay with a poly relationship
3. I am not okay with those two continuing on in any form
4. I am incredibly hurt, and having him in my life in any form is making it so that I am unable to heal from what has happened.
5. Although I feel this way, it isn't up to me if she continues to pursue him or not.

I will then let her know that she needs to make the decision. I'm not going to let her know this part, but if she still choses to pursue him knowing that I am not okay with it, and that it is hurting me I will walk away from the relationship.
 
I feel like that last part deserves a bit more of an explanation. I am *NOT* trying to set a trap for her. I worry that because I have been vague and have backed down in the past that maybe she is unclear with how I am feeling. I think the only way forward for me is to very clearly let her know how I feel, and where I stand on the issue. If she is okay with seeing the guy knowing how much it is hurting me then she is not someone that I want to be with.
 
Happens to the best of us!

And Blue, I applaud you for standing up for yourself. I'm sorry you have to go through it, but I'm glad you're doing what's best for you.
 
Thank you. I think that given time to heal, I might be okay with the situation. That said, I'm not healing with him in my life in any way.

I can't really tell my fiance this though, because I don't want her to get her hopes up and for me to end up never being okay with it.
 
Good list! I encourage you to be crystal clear in stating what YOU can deal with and what you cannot. That not setting a trap -- that's being clear about where you stand. She's not a mind reader. You have to spit it out.

My only suggestion is leave evaluations/emotions out it and stick to behaviors and choices. I grey them out. Blue is mine.

1. It isn't fair for her to put me in this position
2. At this point, I am not okay with a poly relationship
3. I am not okay with those two continuing on in any form (with me in the mix)
4. I am incredibly hurt, and having him in my life in any form is making it so that I am unable to heal from what has happened.
5. Although I feel this way, it isn't up to me if she continues to pursue him or not.
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I agree that she is not being fair, but evaluations and emotions right now can lead to "side arguments" with her about what is fair and not fair like a pissing contest.

You: You doing this is not fair.
Her: Oh, yeah? Well YOU doing that is not fair!

You: I feel hurt
Her: well I feel X!​

Takes the focus off her behaviors and choices and it can become circular conversation.

Or if she can piss you off or get you upset, then you are distracted by your own emotions. Again... spotlight no longer on HER behavior and choices.

Keep the spotlight on the behaviors and choices. Stick to what you will and will not put up with. And behaviors that have to happen. Like...

If she's seeking (a poly V with you + her + him)? You are not up for that. Period.
  • You guys are better off breaking up. Not compatible.

If she's seeking a (duo with You + her)? She needs to hold up her end of the stick with couple counseling so you both heal from cheating past and other upheavals, improve communication,etc. so you can both move on to sharing a HEALTHY dynamic. If she's not going to follow through on that?
  • You guys are better off breaking up if she plans to continue unhealthy dynamic and bad behaviors. Save the time, energy, effort, and money on therapy sessions. Not compatible.

You have already clocked 3 years here with her. She can step up and take some personal responsibility for herself and her actions or not.

You sound fed up and done with all the bad behaviors. And I am glad for you! I am glad you are fed up! You have worth, dignity, and value and deserve to be treated well and with respect.

If you decide that she doesn't make the cut any more? That's not about you not being lovable and worthy.
  • That's about her skills being wonky and her not caring to grow the skills.
  • It is about her not wanting to take some personal responsibility for her behaviors and how they can impact others.
  • It's about her not wanting to treat you with worth, dignity, and respect.

Stand firm in your talk with her.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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It's official. I'm a wimp.

We had the talk on Sunday. It ended up being about 3 hours long. I told her exactly how I was feeling. She reminded me that when we first talked about this, I would give her until the end of Janurary before I made my decision. That way, I will have had some time to calm down and can look at things rationally. So now, it's just 3 more weeks of feeling this way.

On top of that, we went from those two not seeing each other at all, to me agreeing to them seeing each other once every two weeks. She is supposed to go out with him either today or tomorrow.

Not sure how I feel about that.

On the plus side, she reiterated that this is all up to me. If I say no, she will respect that. We talked about the times I said no before. She said she hesitated to message him because she was in shock and feeling hurt and was trying to process that before she messaged him.

She did agree to pause any progress in their relationship though. While they can go out together, she has agreed to keep things in public places and keep it non-sexual.

We also talked about the messages issue. Even if she wasn't messaging him when we were together, she would constantly check her phone. If he messaged her, she would go into another room to message him back. That's okay, because I just didn't want to see it. However, we now have a better plan in place. After our kids go to bed, we usually spend the time together connecting as a couple. She agreed to set the boundry with him that he is not to message us during that time. On my end, I agreed to let her message him when we are together as long as we aren't spending us time together.

I don't know know how I feel about all of this yet. It feels like we made some progress, but regressed in other areas.

Why does this have to be so hard?
 
Don't call yourself names. You are not a wimp.

I could be wrong, but I think you are trying to leave an emotionally abusive relationship. That's hard to do. And you are not at stage 5 level of leaving yet. More like stage 2 or stage 3.

On the plus side, she reiterated that this is all up to me.
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If this is really up to you, you could leave NOW without her making a big guilt tripping thing for 3 hours. (Toying with your emotions til you are all confused or exhausted. I think she was out to WIN the argument, not listen so she could understand your position)

Basically you set out with a goal to leave and she ground you down from the sound of it. And you agreed just so you could be free of the grinding. Exhausted! Maybe hoping THIS time she would really keep her Word. Despite past experiences with her NOT keeping her Word.

If you are going to have breaking up convo... Could keep "we are breaking up" the focus on the conversation. Could be more firm about your desire to get off the ride NOW.

"I know I said end of January. I changed my mind and I am making you aware. I have decided I want to get off the bus sooner. I am not longer up for the ride."​

And not let her change the topic to the great new neighborhood you will see next on her ride. Keep the topic on you getting OFF. State your position and leave the room. You don't have to sit there for 3 hours.

Alternately, you could quietly make plans to move out, and one day just not be there. Leave the ring on a table. Avoid the slippery fish conversations entirely. Maybe you spend your time from here til the end of January quietly arranging for that?

It NICE when people can break up and have closure conversation together, but it is not necessary. You can give yourself closure once you are gone.

Have you considered leaving that way?

Why does this have to be so hard?
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TBH? Because you are in an unhealthy relationship. I think you could spend your energy seeking a counselor to help yourself get out.

This is where you were:

Needless to say, I was livid. I was packing my stuff to leave when she talked me into staying
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And she's talked you into staying again. And again. And again.

Basically there's no respect here. She can do whatever she wants, and she knows you will fusspot some, but ultimately stay. That's not loving behavior.

I don't think she loves you. If she did, she would treat you more respectfully and more lovingly. For whatever reason, she loves what you DO for her and the services you provide. Right now she doesn't want to give those services up. But she doesn't want to treat you well either.

I am so sorry.

I still vote "no confidence" in things changing much based on your story. It's just more of same empty promises to get you not to leave, spoken on a different day.

I don't think it will get better until you physically leave. Then your mental and emotional health get a chance to heal.

Def do not marry her. Having a non-reliable GF is bad enough. Having a non-reliable spouse is worse.

Could clock the time til end of January and just be gone. Don't bother to have another conversation. If it were me, that's what I would do -- focus on moving on and leaving.

You have to figure out what you want to do next.

Hang in there,

Galagirl
 
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I'm with GalaGirl here. The cynic in me is also thinking that in you agreeing to her spending some physical face to face time with her new beau lets her nurture that relationship so she has a safe place to land when you do finally let her go. That might well be the rational and sensible thing to do from her point of view, but if this period between now and end of January is about trying to get you to a calmer emotional place and for you two to give your own relationship one last chance to heal, how does her having coffee dates with him help? Sounds more like her recognising she needs to keep him dangling and interested. I understand her desires - but it does smack once more of her not taking you seriously, nor your desire to not be in a poly relationship (at least without major remedial work being done) with much respect. It might just be a bad case of NRE, but this is not caring or loving behaviour on her part at all. I'm sorry the talk seems to have changed nothing. I guess both parties need to be open to change in these matters, and she has no desire or incentive to change her end. Why would she? She has almost everything she wants right now.
 
You are both absolutely right.

Galagirl -

When I tried to leave last time, she put herself between myself and the door, so I physically could not leave. She has a history of being physically abusive towards her past partners, although never with me. In that moment, I was scared for my safety. I think that your suggestion to just pack and leave when she isn't home is going to be my only way to leave.

On that note, I'm done. I have to wait until I have some money to move out, and I know that she will probably do something to change my mind about it in the mean time, but I just want to leave.

I felt our conversation on Sunday went well. I made a compromise on her being able to message him around me, but set the rule of not after 7 since we are typically together spending couple time. She was supposed to let him know of that boundary and then if he pushed that boundary she was supposed to let me know.

In fact, because I feel that I can't trust him at all, we have had the rule that if he pushes any boundaries at all or in any way disrespects us as a couple or me as an individual, she is supposed to let me know so I can get a feel for how respectful he would be. Apparently, that has not been happening. I asked her a couple nights ago if he had said anything about us or me, and she said yes, and let me know what happened. It was realitively minor, but I reminded her that I needed her to tell me when he did that instead of me asking for it.

Last night, I noticed her phone flashing a notification that only shows when he has messaged her (he is the only one that she talks with that uses Hangouts). This was at 8:30. She picked up her phone and went into the bedroom to "plug it in". I gave her time to tell me about it, but she never did.

I then brought it up with her. She said that she had forgot to set that boundary with him. She met up with him on Monday, and talked about the new boundaries, but apparently she had "forgot" about that one. I was upset and reacted poorly. She is allowed to make mistakes, or forget things. The thing is, that even if she forgot to set that boundary with him, based on multiple conversations we have had about this, she should have let me know when she saw the message from him, but didn't. It feels more like she was hiding it than simply forgetting.

Today was the final straw though. She messaged me to let me know that that he wanted her to go over to his place today for lunch. I called her to clarify if it was her letting me know that he was pushing a boundary (them seeing each other once every two weeks and only in public places) or if she was asking me if I was okay with her going. She told me because she wanted to go.

Basically she wanted me to compromise *AGAIN* on two huge issues for me. How much more can I compromise? How much more of myself can I give up for her? How much more pain do I have to deal with?

I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I don't want to go home. I don't want to see her again. If it weren't for my son, I would just not go back. I would leave everything that I own, everything that I've spent my 35 years on this planet building and live on the streets to never have to see her again. I can't do that to my son though, so I have to wait until I have enough money to have a place to move to.
 
Sorry to hear she still isn't treating you right. It sounds like she is very comfortable doing whatever she thinks she can get away with. And I don't buy the story about her forgetting the agreement -- the one agreement, conveniently, that would have been in your favor. :mad: Not cool.

Make your plan, save your money, and move out. It's not easy to do, but it's the one way you can get some healing from all of this.
 
This is disturbing. I'm so sorry it is escalating. :(

When I tried to leave last time, she put herself between myself and the door, so I physically could not leave. She has a history of being physically abusive towards her past partners, although never with me. In that moment, I was scared for my safety. I think that your suggestion to just pack and leave when she isn't home is going to be my only way to leave.
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She also keeps breaking boundaries. I am glad you see that and are done.

Sounds like you are ready to leave and "just not be there one day" because she's not going to let you go the other way.

I hope you can save the money up quickly. Change your phone, change homes, and don't give her a chance to come back. In the meanwhile, call a counselor or the nearest women's shelter and make an appointment to set up a safety plan and get some advice on how to best leave. They have seen it all.

You've been through emotional abuse and now it's ramping to physical. You might not like thinking it, but that's how its looking, hon. :( And the leaving time can be a dangerous time. Some people get all "If I cannot have you, nobody can!"

Don't let your soft feelings for her compromise you and your son's continued well being. If she's on any of his school things as a pick up person go to school and get her name OFF the release list so the school does not release him to her if she comes to pick him up.

Galagirl
 
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I was feeling guilty about my decision last night. Feeling like I shouldn't leave. Maybe this is all my fault. Maybe I haven't been clear in communicating my needs in this situation. We ended up having another discussion last night because I'm terrible at hiding my feelings.

Somethings that stand out from that conversation to me. She feels that the restrictions I've put on this exploratory phase are "too restrictive", that she is "frustrated" at taking things this slow and that I have set "too many boundaries"

GalaGirl said:
She also keeps breaking boundaries.
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To clarify, the boundaries that we decided on together as a couple are that:

Until I decide if I am okay in a poly relationship, I originally didn't want them to see eachother apart from on her birthday and him taking her out to see a comedy show. That would have equaled once every two weeks.
-She has now seen him three times in the past two weeks and is pressuring me to give my okay for a fourth time.

Their interactions need to stay G rated until a decision is made.
-They have sent eachother explicit text messages.

The time that they spend together cannot take time away from our family time
-She has upheld this so far

Metamores are not alowed at/in the house and are not allowed to interact with our kids.
-After one of their meetings, he came over and came into the house and spent time talking with my son.

She would set boundaries with him as far as respecting us as a couple and me as an individual
-She says that she set this boundary but he has broken it several times

She would set boundaries as far as when they were able to text so as not to interrupt our time as a couple.
- Found out the day before yesterday that she "forgot" to set that boundary with him. Followed up yesterday with her and she said that she set that boundary with him, but he texted her last night again during our time as a couple.

Finally, if any boundary was broken, she was to tell me about it. This one is huge to me. I understand that mistakes happen, but how you handle the mistake is what matters.
-There have been several times that this has been an issue. The only time she offered that a boundary was broken is when he came over. I think the only reason that she offered that is because my son was home and he might have told me anyway. Even after we have fought about this over and over, and her claiming to "forget", we had a discussion about it yesterday, and she did not tell me about him breaking a boundary with messaging last night.

I understand that each of these mistakes individually are not that big of a deal. Maybe I am being too restrictive or too critical. The thing is, we agreed to these limits as a couple. If she didn't like the boundary, she could have spoken up. She also knows that the boundaries are an ongoing conversation. If one boundary just isn't working, I'm open to a conversation on how to adjust it to take into account both of our needs.

After our conversation yesterday, and her not telling me that yet another boundary was broken, it just reinforced me being done.

To be honest, I know boundaries will be tested. I know that sometimes they will be broken. Without the honesty there though to come forward and admit that a boundry has been broken, I'm not willing to continue.

Not only am I not willing to continue exploring a poly relationship with her, I'm not willing to continue with her in a relationship. At this point, even if I told her no about opening up our relationship, and she seemed to agree to it, I doubt she would actually follow through. She would find a way to keep him on the side until she is done with me.

GalaGirl said:
I hope you can save the money up quickly. Change your phone, change homes, and don't give her a chance to come back
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I am getting my bonus from work in February. That should be enough for me to move out. My aunt has offered to let me move in with her, but she is in another state. I'm not opposed to the idea, but hesitate to take my son out of school in the middle of the year.

GalaGirl said:
You've been through emotional abuse and now it's ramping to physical.
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I have a hard time with this. I know that she has the potential for physical abuse, but she has always controlled it very well. I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of possiblity, but I think the chance is small.

GalaGirl said:
In the meanwhile, call a counselor or the nearest women's shelter and make an appointment to set up a safety plan and get some advice on how to best leave.
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I've already contacted a counselor. It will be a couple weeks before I can get in, but at least the ball is rolling on that. I don't feel like a saftey plan is necessary at this point, but recongnize that it ould be better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it.

Thank you again for your responses. They have really helped!
 
I was feeling guilty about my decision last night. Feeling like I shouldn't leave. Maybe this is all my fault.
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It is not your fault she is breaking her word. You are not in charge of her behavior. SHE is. And in her behavior she chooses to hurt you over and over by making agreements she won't keep. So you have decided to bow out and leave and get you out of the line of fire. That doesn't make you a bad guy. That is you being responsible for your own well being.

Even if she pitches a fit and calls you names? That doesn't mean you actually ARE a bad guy. That's her pitching a fit and doing what she does -- trying to hurt you some more. This time through name calling.

You deserve to be treated well. It's ok for you to want to leave this poor treatment.

I understand that each of these mistakes individually are not that big of a deal. Maybe I am being too restrictive or too critical.
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You expect her to NOT AGREE to the things that do not suit her? And if she DOES agree, to keep her Word? I don't think that's being "too restrictive or too critical." That is expecting her to behave like she is the boss of her own self and take personal responsibility over her choices.

I am glad you wrote that list out of the broken agreements. Then you can look at it any time you want to remind yourself that she chronically breaks her agreements with you. Not trustworthy.

The thing is, we agreed to these limits as a couple. If she didn't like the boundary, she could have spoken up. She also knows that the boundaries are an ongoing conversation. If one boundary just isn't working, I'm open to a conversation on how to adjust it to take into account both of our needs.
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That's right. She could speak up and only agree to what she can follow through on. But I don't think that's her goal in making the agreements. I think her goal in making the agreements is "Tell blueeuedjamie81 whatever so she doesn't leave before I want her to." She's not entering agreements in good faith with a goal of keeping up her end of the stick. She seems to enter these agreements only to stop you from leaving. Makes her untrustworthy.

I do notice you seem to use "agreements" and "boundaries" interchangeably. To me?

  • Agreements are things you and her agree to.
  • Boundaries are for YOU.

Example:

  • You and I agree that you can borrow my DVDs -- one every Friday so long as you bring the old one back in good order before taking another. (Our shared agreement for expected behavior)
  • I have a boundary for myself that I do not loan my things to people who are irresponsible with my things. If they are, I stop loaning my things to them. (MY boundary with a consequence that *I* can do)
  • You borrow a movie and break it. You want to borrow another.
  • Well, you broke the agreement. This movie is not returned in good order. So I am enforcing my boundary I have for myself and not loaning you any more.
  • Unless you apologize and buy me a new one or give me a gift card to replace the old one? I am not interested in continuing to lend you my movies. The old agreement is void. And I'm not up for making any new agreements with you until you make amends for not keeping up with the old one.

That would not be me being restrictive or critical. That is me expecting you to hold up your end of the stick and take some personal responsibility.

Does that make sense?

At this point, even if I told her no about opening up our relationship, and she seemed to agree to it, I doubt she would actually follow through. She would find a way to keep him on the side until she is done with me.
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I think you call it right.

I have a hard time with this. I know that she has the potential for physical abuse, but she has always controlled it very well. I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of possiblity, but I think the chance is small.
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You are trying to leave your abuser. It's ok some things are hard right now.

I am glad to see that despite feelings, you are making plans to be gone and make the chance be ZERO.

Good for you on contacting a counselor! I hope the appointment is helpful.

And in the meanwhile, www.speakoutloud.net

I know your plan B is to wait til Feb bonus check, but it doesn't hurt to check with aunt that you and son can go to her at moment's notice. That could be your Plan C.

You have value, worth and dignity. You deserve to be treated well.

Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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blueeuedjamie81 said:
I understand that each of these mistakes individually are not that big of a deal. Maybe I am being too restrictive or too critical.
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The fact of the matter is, whether the relationship is closed or polyamorous, you two are in a relationship and you have set boundaries for that relationship. If she does not like them and does not communicate that to you that is not your fault it is hers. If she is choosing to stay with you then she needs to respect your boundaries and try her best not to break them and if she thinks it is too restrictive then let her leave you. You should never feel responsible for her actions and infidelity, that is all on her... and this guy she is talking to doesn't respect you either because if he did he wouldn't let her do things behind your back.

From all of your posts in this thread I feel that she should never be polyamorous because she seems to have trouble communicating and that is a red flag. She also does not want to be restricted to just one person either so I can't even say she is relationship compatible at all with anyone.

This is all just my take on everything, you can tell me to go to hell if you want lol I just put myself in your situation and it really isn't fair to you. I know all you want to do is keep her happy but honey if doing that means your unhappiness then it's not worth it! I had a very (scary) similar situation like this in my previous relationship (before I met my husband) and it broke me to the point where I woke up one day and all my love for him was gone because all that shit he put me through broke me from the inside out.

Anyways, you seem like a really good person, lets not let that go to waste.

Love always.
 
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