Kevin's Hetero MFM Poly-Fi V


Official Greeter
Thanks LR and KC.

Jeezh, that church-versus-homosexuality stuff is something else, isn't it? Have the General Authorities really supported this notion that homosexuality is "the biggest immorality there is?"

All's I know is that official church doctrine states that sexual "sins" (e.g. adultery, masturbation, homosexuality, bisexuality, swing, poly -- you get the idea) are the *third*-worst of all (types of) sins. Murder (what counts as murder?) is the second-worst; denying the Holy Ghost (what the tickety-boo is that supposed to mean? leaving the church I guess) is the first-worst. You can't even get forgiveness for the "top two." Murder someone and that's it; Jesus will never forgive you no matter how hard you try to repent. Deny the Holy Ghost and you just earned yourself a one-way ticket into Outer Darkness -- unspeakable torment for all eternity.

It's too bad cause you guys are right: The church has its good qualities. (Which it uses to plant a few more hooks in there.) Furthermore, some people stay in the church because they want to help reform it from within. And I admire/appreciate that. I just couldn't stay myself because it was such an unhealthy environment for me.

Re (from rabbit):
"I think the guilt you are feeling right now is something trained into you by the church."

Yeah, that's a huge reason why I say the church was (is?) an unhealthy environment for me. Gods do they ever lay on the guilt trips. And as if that wasn't bad enough, my own mother was the queen of laying on guilt trips. So I was getting pelted at home and in the chapel. Wow. When you're thin-skinned and eager to please, that much guilt-tripping is rather permanent. To this day I find myself beating myself up over the least little technical mistakes. Just one example of the sweet "blessings" the church bestowed on me.

Hmmm, looks like I'm kind of venting. But hey if y'can't vent in your blog, where can y'vent?


New member
God is Love

Christ's command is that we love each other as much as we love ourselves. He elaborated on the subject of love by telling us that it was of no importance if we loved only those who loved us but it is when we love our enemies that we learn to love as He does.

He defined perfect as allowing the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

Little do they know when the tell us to hate the people we love they have become our enemies and cease to be our friends.

It is easier for me to love their enemies than it is for me to love them for making it difficult to learn to love people who make me uncomfortable for whatever reason.

We're left to do what Jesus did and avoid the religious bigots who interfere with our attempts to love and help everyone we encounter. Because it's more fun than being mean.

The ultimate for Christ was when even as they killed Him He forgave them.

It wasn't the homosexual, transvestite, whatever who were enjoying having fun who were at the foot of the cross enjoying watching Love get killed.

We need to continue to encourage each other to forgive and love the religious bigots.

I've found it's easier to do this while caught up in thoughts of fucking someone really nice who enjoys having me fuck them.


Official Greeter
LOL, well said loveboston. Make love, not war, amirite?

I admit I'm a weak (i.e. unvirtuous) person when it comes to loving my enemies. If I was crucified I'm sure I wouldn't have a thought to spare for those who instigated the unimaginable predicament; what little thought I had would be of my own pain and suffering. I don't know what parts of the Bible are true, but if any man could hang on the cross and simultaneously forgive the religious bigots who put him there, then I am truly in awe of that man. Parting the Red Sea would be a lesser miracle.

Maybe someday I'll come to follow a whole particle of that example.

God is Love and it hurts my soul to see any religion encourage ill will ... as many religions discreetly do.

"Hate is hate even when done with a smile."
-- Steven Vigil


Re (from LovingRadiance):
"Not all parts of the Book of Mormon strike me as 'bullshit.'"

I totally agree.

In fact, how's this for irony? The Book of Mormon introduced me to a doctrine/concept that the Bible never could: the idea that we prepare for the next life (the afterlife) by the course we follow in this life (mortal existence), or in other words, what our present life looks like is a reflection of what our next life will look like beyond the grave. For years I just took that as a mere true and pleasant doctrine, but then somewhere around Y2K, the epiphany hit me: "What kind of afterlife am I preparing myself for? If this life is a reflection of the next life, then what can I expect after I pass away? Why, nothing more than a long series of boring, guilt-tripping meetings, the de facto abolition of D&D and of all music not printed in the 1985 hymnal, and just in general being a round peg jammed into a square hole. Is that what I really want? Why am I setting myself up for that?" In other words, the Book of Mormon ended up helping me decide to leave the church.

Re (from KC43):
"The idea that Heavenly Father speaks to *everyone,* not just to a select few who then take it upon themselves to tell everyone else what they're supposed to do."

The church does teach that doctrine, though it often encourages us to trust the inspiration of our leaders more than our own. But knowing that I, too, a rank-and-file member, had access to personal revelation and the promptings of the Holy Ghost, was yet another way in which the church undermined my membership in it. It (ultimately) taught me to take my own misgivings seriously (e.g. when I saw that something was amiss in the behavior of my leaders, or in the way the church covered up "those truths which are not useful"). So, there again, there's that irony.

The church even enables that irony in the pious college it sponsors: Brigham Young University. As much as the church wants us to believe in the Bible's literal account of Noah, Adam and Eve, etc., it also gives BYU a science department that teaches four billion years of evolution (culminating in humans evolving from ape-like ancestors) and the scientific method (which renders absurd any assertions of any Great Flood covering the whole Earth, the Sun halting in the heavens, etc.). I have at least one friend in Utah whose doubt in the church started with what he learned at BYU.

I like that the church persists in promoting these truthful ideas even if it means some members will get the "wrong" idea from them. I don't like it when the church hides/diverts attention away from the troubling details of its past and present, but I do like it when it has the guts to retain and promote truthful ideas, the costs to itself be damned.

I even like the uniquely Mormon doctrine that mortals like you and I are Gods and Goddesses in embryo ... but that's kind of getting off the off-topic topic. The point is, I like some of the stuff the church teaches -- even some of the stuff that's written in the Book of Mormon.


Thank you guys, for your supportive words. I feel better having read them.


New member

Avoiding abuse and mistreatment of our spirits should be as high a priority if not more so than staying away from anyone who would abuse our emotions and body.

I take full responsibility for being so careless with my spirit.

The abuse can come from any group, any leader and from any individual.

My spirit is the core of my being.

I've been careless and I've slowly learned that being raped is not ok.


Official Greeter
Did I let the church rape me spiritually? Yeah, that's probably a good way of putting it. Spiritual and emotional rape.

Although the meaning of "let" is critical when discussing rape. It works when you're "letting" the rape occur due to threats of extreme violence (going to Hell sounds like a good example) if you don't comply.

On top of that was the church's way of assuring me that what they were doing was love (not rape). But yeah, after awhile, you realize, "Um yes this is rape, and a rapist doesn't have the authority to determine who's going to Heaven or Hell."


Official Greeter
Have been napping some today (Monday), extra tired for some reason. A little after 2:00 p.m. (c. four hours ago) my V and I (and our cat and dog) returned home from a weekend stay (started Saturday afternoon) at my brother and sister-in-law's place on Vashon Island. A great time was had by all. Rainee (our cat) even let Sebastian (their cat) kiss her at the end (before hissing at him one last time).

Us five humans played "Cards against Humanity" for the first time and I suppose that was the most fun we had of the whole weekend. Not only did I win (always a good thing), I also played what I think all agreed were the two funniest cards.

One question card was, "I drink to forget _____." I had "rehab" in my hand and played it with relish. Another question card was, "I lost my virginity by _____." I actually had two good cards to play but decided on "winking at old people."

Anyway it was a fun and enjoyable visit. I look forward to my/our next stay at their house. And that's the big exciting news from my V and me. I think my brother and sister-in-law pretty much know about our poly-ness; I hinted about it to them a few years ago with such a hint as to make it impossible to mistake. They were totally cool about it, and have helped us stay otherwise in the closet as well.

Hope everyone else had a good weekend.
Kevin T.


Active member
One question card was, "I drink to forget _____." I had "rehab" in my hand and played it with relish. Another question card was, "I lost my virginity by _____." I actually had two good cards to play but decided on "winking at old people."

My favorite answer for the virginity one has been "vigorous jazz hands." Cracks me up for some reason! Definitely a fun game.


Official Greeter
Heh, I drew vigorous jazz hands, and decided to play it for (something like), "Something old ladies are offended by but kind of like at the same time." I didn't know if I'd like CAH much, so I was quite pleasantly surprised.

My brother got second place, which I guess is fitting since he and I are constantly doing a perverted two stooges act with one another. :D


Official Greeter
Today, for no good reason, is a bad one. No cheer or laughter for me today. Got triggered last night by "too much" horsing around (tickling antics) by Snowbunny. I suddenly felt painfully humiliated/disrespected. I've had a night to sleep on it and forgiveness remains elusive. I am speaking as little as I can. Posting on isn't comfortable fit either today, but at least the force of habit keeps me doing something (and supplies me with some distraction). I could use some serious alcohol right now, but there's none in the house. The strongest stuff we have is wine which wouldn't put a dent in me. I need an alarming helping of 80-100 proof refreshment.

Don't panic, this is just something that happens with me from time to time, and usually I wouldn't write about it because I don't like publishing my private failures. By this time next week I'll probably be fine. I just have to keep it together in the meantime. And I don't update my blog often enough, so maybe posting now helps me do slightly better in that area.



Official Greeter
Yep. They sure do.

[hug appreciated]


Hug sent from here, too.


a gentle one.

Those kind of days suck big time. Hope you start feeling better soon.


New member
Sorry to hear you're having a tough time, Kevin. I hope you can find some helpful distraction until the triggered cycle works its way through.

Hugs and plenty of respect coming from this direction too.


Active member
I hope today is a better day than yesterday...


Official Greeter
Thanks guys.

I seem to be on "the road to recovery," at least until the next trigger hits. :rolleyes: We have a few extra stressors in our lives that may be setting me on edge. Snowbunny lost the well-paying job she had and will have to take a big pay cut to get a new job. Plus buy a second car, since she was working via computers at home. The upshot is that we'll have to move to a significantly smaller domicile, and I'm feeling a little panicky about losing my private bedroom with its attached bath. In meatspace, I am an extreme introvert.

Snowbunny and Brother-Husband are looking for a way to get us a place to live where I'll still have the privacy I need. But it's tough. For one thing, (inexpensive) two-bath (let alone attached-bath) homes are hard to find in this part of the country, and then if you're renting, the renters have to be accepting of your pets (our dog and cat). We'll need to greatly reduce our monthly (mortgage or) rent (from $1500 down to about $1000 I would imagine).

Change is stressful. I don't know where we'll land or what it'll be like. I'll miss the place we live in right now; it's been a wonderful and pleasant stay here. Sigh ...


New member
Aww. I hate to read that you are having a hard time. I am coming out of quasi hiatus to comment. I do hope it gets better for you, Kevin. Triggers absolutely suck. Take it one hour at a time and breathe. Recovery is never a speedy process.

I am sorry Snowbunny lost her job. That just means there is something better on the horizon. I hope you all find a new home that you will love even more. Hopefully one with an attached bath and private area for you.

Sending you a gentle hug and a tonne of support. (And a dozen of assorted doughnuts.) You have certainly provided some much needed support for me in my darkest hours.



Official Greeter
Thanks Ry. Especially for the doughnuts! :)

Yeah, they really screwed Snowbunny at her (now ex-)employer's. First they tell her that her particular department is safe, there will be no cuts there, then that same dang manager is the one who calls her a few weeks later and says, "You're gone. But keep meeting our impossible demands until you actually leave."

Mismanagement ain't the word over there. They've fired so many people that the ones they didn't ax are arguably worse off than the ones they did ax, they're so understaffed now. Conditions are bad enough that additional employees got pissed and quit -- so then of course they're even more understaffed, and they have no coherent plan for fixing the situation.

It all started when the hospital network Snowbunny was working for took its IT department and contracted the whole thing out to another company. "That way we only have to write one check for the whole IT department, instead of all those individual paychecks we were writing. And we don't need to know what the IT people do anymore after this. It'll be so much more efficient."

Oh yeah it's a DADT situation and the contracted company is frankly ruining the IT department without giving the parent company (the hospital) the least clue that there's the least thing amiss. Sooner or later the house of cards is gonna collapse, and the hospital's gonna be in for a rude awakening. I think the news stations could make a huge story out of this scandal if they knew about it. Would you want to stake your health on a hospital whose computer network could totally crash while you're being treated? How about if one of your loved ones was in surgery and the computers crashed in the middle of that procedure?

There's two major hospital networks in New Mexico. I foresee a business disaster of sufficient magnitude that the second major hospital network could very well end up purchasing the first network (the one that Snowbunny was working for). [shaking head] It's corporate corruption of the worst kind -- and people could actually die because of this one.

As for us, we are definitely going to have to transition to a leaner life. Snowbunny won't be able to land anything close to the money she was making in IT. Hell she's sent out some fifty resumés and only had like, two interviews. One looks promising and she'll probably get the job, but as I said with a painful pay cut.

The only good thing is she'll probably have a lot less stress at work than she was having with the IT job. Those guys were really making ridiculous demands of their employees. This new job will be for one of the local schools, with a nice regular schedule and a month plus Summer vacation time.

It's tough, living in Washington State, where the cost of living is higher and jobs are considerably harder to come by. But, even if we'd stayed in New Mexico, this scandal at Snowbunny's work would have still gone down and she'd have either been out of a job or carrying the load of like, ten people. So some kind of change was always on the horizon, I guess.

Snowbunny is very conscientious and I know she'll do her damnedest to find a place of residence where I'll be able to feel at home. Yes, even our little cat Rainee, her needs will be seen to, wherever we end up at.

I'm kind of an ingrate. I have way more blessings than like anyone I know, yet I have a veritable meltdown over something as stupid as tickling. It's like two days later and I'm still not quite back to "normal." But I'm getting there, and I'm functioning a lot better now.

I really appreciate everyone's sympathies and well wishes.
Kevin T.
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Active member
Thinking of you over here, too... Corporate BS sucks, and I'm sorry Snowbunny got hit with the fan spray. Maybe we can have a "living lean" commiseration discussion, since I'm trying to do the same. :)

Here's hoping things are getting better WRT to the trigger/upset. The thing with triggers, is that they ARE small things that set off big things. When you can, try to quit beating yourself up over it... self-flagellation never helps the healing.


New member
Sending positive job hunting vibes to you guys. I think you might find you can cope with a bit of lost privacy when you know it's necessary, benefits the family as a whole and temporary. I've been thinking a lot about why we (society as a whole) needs so much more indoor living space than we did even 60 years ago. Our homes are getting bigger and our yards are turning into postage stamps. Due to our need to monitor our finances and cut a bunch of things, my husband want to rent out the room my kid recently vacated to a part time boarder. This is giving me some serious moments of anxiety. 1. It's my boys room, 2. I've never been comfortable with other people living in my home. Relatives visiting for a week - OK, more than that I want to climb the walls. 3. it needs work that I will have to do (I do all drywall & painting work). 4. I wanted it as a sewing/guest room :(. I feel for your dilemma and wish you the best. Keep thinking of the positives!


Official Greeter
Thanks YAH and SN.

Things are improving, Snowbunny got the job with the school district, we won't be rich but we'll probably be alright. There's actually some promising possibilities of places we could live, just have to get through the moving itself which is always a pain.

I have been sensitive to various triggers since grade school at latest. You'd think I'd be used to that about myself by now, but it still makes me see myself as a defective person. Snowbunny is more accepting about it than I am. It just sucks to be the one who always ruins the party.

I'd say I'm 99% back to normal by now, maybe the only residual symptom now is I'm tired a lot and have to fight to keep my eyes open. Hopefully that, too, is temporary.

As for those damned corrupt corporations, they can bite me. Those New Mexico people made a big mistake in throwing Snowbunny away, she was by far one of the best and smartest people that they had. She was always taking calls from various employees who were stuck on some problem that wasn't even her department, but she'd always figure out how to fix it for them anyway. When my computer does anything wonky, I freak out. When a big huge hospital computer froze up, Snowbunny wouldn't be spooked in the least. She enjoyed the challenge of figuring out how to solve a problem. I still come to her when I have an unsolvable computer problem. She figures out how to solve it every time.

Anyway, I'm sure things'll work out in due time; seems like they always do. Hope you guys also find the strength to manage your own life challenges.

Kevin T.