Life Changes..the beginning.

Beodude123 said:
. . . since it's part of my nature, it's not exactly something that I can just tune out.

. . . I keep learning things about myself, and figuring out how to overcome them.
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Glad to have shed a little light there for you.

About what I quoted above, sometimes we don't necessarily need to tune out or overcome the ways we are and behave. Often it's more helpful to simply accept these things about ourselves, and just let them be without judging or thinking we have to change them (you are a fixer! ;) ). That's why I said, just know it's there, a part of you, and let it play in the background. Acknowledge it but don't let it rule how you approach things. That's not really tuning it out or turning it off. Then you can respond to what is, what is happening and real, in the moment. Eventually those old patterns let go of us.

It sounds like you both are doing good work on understanding yourselves. Sounds like a good space to be in. Bravo!
 
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JenAgain said:
RP, while I do take your advice to heart, I also feel our situation is slightly different (as they all are). J has been a part of our lives for nearly 3 years, and going on 2 months of our journey, which I realize is short in the big picture, but has seemed like a really long time for me as far as being able to express myself and my feelings towards him completely.
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I'm not sure how we differ that much... not that it matters, but the non-sexual boyfriend I have had has been in my life for over two years... Same length of time as Mono, I met them at the same time.

I have just been through a big moment in our relationship since just before Christmas...

As you say though, people are different... still, it could be nothing... or it could be major, you just won't know until you do it.

Sounds like you had a good night in any case.
 
Yes, I can see how in the grand scheme of things it's not really a whole lot different. I do feel that it's the best way for hubby to be able to be okay with it because of his nature to over think.

Things are still going well. Hubby and J shared some messages where J said that he's really enjoying the closeness we all have when things are going well. Hubby also told J that he can take me on a date, and J responded that if he took me out, he also had to have super man dude time with hubby, haha.

They took a picture of them doing a man bear hug at work, and sent it to me which made my day. I have it set on the background of my phone and I grin from ear to ear every time I look at it.

Trying to think about today and not tomorrow or the next day, but I'm really enjoying the now and hope it continues.
 
Still here, and still have not had sex with J. It's been both frustrating, and good.. I've felt like we've had some good connections the past week and a half, and some good progress. He seems to be making somewhat of a conscious effort in giving us more time with him. Both one on one with me, and with the three of us. There hasn't really been much of an opportunity for him to hang out with hubby much, though we know that definitely needs to happen for the sake of their relationship.

While I feel like he has been putting in an effort there, I still feel like I'm constantly chasing him and getting very little in return emotionally. Some days are better than others. I want to back off, but I do miss him when we don't chat. I really enjoy his conversation (well, through text anyway). Some days he's very responsive and in to whatever it is I have to say... some days it seems like he is disinterested. He rarely asks his own questions, and that is frustrating for me. I'm trying not to have expectations, but to have NO expectations seems impossible.

I was having a down day today as J did not respond much to my texts, though to his credit, he has been sick for a few days. I feel like I'm not allowed to be bummed about it, since it was my choice to be here. I know that's not the case, but hubby doesn't know how to respond. He seems to think it's consistently negative with J, when it's not. Of course I'm partially responsible, because I try not to show my excitement with the good stuff that happens because I'm also afraid to hurt hubby's feelings when J makes me happy. I try and stay neutral either way, but it's very difficult.

I don't know, J is coming over tomorrow for dinner and to hang out a few hours before he goes to work, and I do want to pick his brain about some things, so maybe there will be more progress. I wish I wasn't so impatient to have answers NOW. :)
 
Hi Jen,
This may be a case of J. being a "Yo-Yo Man" -- my term for a guy who just tends to back away when they sense a woman pursuing them, and who move closer when they feel the heat is off. It can be so, so subtle and yet incredibly frustrating. It is also a very common pattern that I have seen a gazillion times. <sigh>

I know when you're caught up in all this euphoria of wanting to be with him that the hardest thing in the world will be to leave him alone. But it could very well be the best thing you can do to give him space. Maybe he wants to pursue you and feels you're not giving him a chance, or he could interpret your chasing after him as being a little too needy. Stop texting for a few days -- really hard to do, I know -- but let him be. Take up knitting or something (LOL), focus on something else when your mind turns to him. He will come around, I can almost guarantee it!
 
Oh girl, If I took up another hobby I would be in BIG trouble!! lol

Amazingly, and out of the blue had an awesome middle of the night conversation with J. I woke up at 2AM to a text from him that said he probably would need to come another night due to some roommate drama that has him out looking for a new house/apartment this morning instead of sleeping (he works mid shift). My brain turned on and I asked him about it which then turned into a 3 hour long conversation about a LOT! I'm pretty sure it's the most words I've gotten out of him ever.. combined, hah.

It did offer me a lot of insight to the person he is though, and it progressed into talking about our situation. He is hesitant partially due to his experience in his previous marriage, and also because he is still looking for "the one" and is afraid the deeper we get into this, the more difficult it will be when it comes to an end. I shared some of your words, and others that I have picked up along my posts and learning here and went to sleep (for an hour until the kids got up) feeling much better.

He doesn't want me to stop "chasing" so to speak, the reason why he doesn't reciprocate is because he views it as respecting my privacy, that my past is my past, and his main concern is about our future. That if I want to volunteer information then that's fine, but he wont pry. I do feel that a persons history is as much a part of them as the present and their future, and told him such. I don't think it will change the fact that he doesn't ask me much, but he did say that I can ask him all I want, hah.

All in all, it was a good conversation. I suppose I should pull all nighters more often and chat with him when he's at his prime.. awake, and at work! Go figure!
 
I haven't posted in a bit.. a lot has been going on. It's been bad.. good.. bad.. back and forth.

I don't know if I have the emotional energy to explain it all right now, but to sum it up. Hubby essentially hit a brick wall, and I couldn't do this to him anymore, so called it off with J for now. After some discussion we decided to take it back to the basics.. no physical affection outside of hugs really. Taking it at hubby's pace. I'm both comfortable and struggling with this.

In the meantime I'm starting to seriously doubt J's sincerity in all this. I don't know that he has the ability to give me that brutal honesty that I need.. and that is an absolute need for me.

There has been a lot of crying, reflection, more crying over the last several days. I'm just not sure what I can emotionally handle at this point.. my heart is heavy in so many ways. It's not all bad, it's just weighing down on me and I'm finding it hard to breathe.

Will post more as I sort through these feelings and make some sense of it all..
 
Wow, Jen, I empathize with you. I think your lesson in all of this is to learn patience. Isn't this the second time you've made up your mind that J. wasn't where you want him to be with this and you can't do it anymore? Yes, give J. his space but why write him off?

I don't know how well-structured your life is, but that might help. Somehow you seem to let your mind wander to all possibilities and then find reasons to get upset when everyone isn't all on the same page as you, at the same time.

I see it so clearly because I do this myself. The hardest part then is to not make decisions out of these feeling!

Breathe, slow down, take stock of all the good things. From what your hubby's been posting, he's doing really well. Don't let yourself get impatient with J., as that won't help. Just because you feel the need right now for everything to fall into place the way you believe it should doesn't mean that that is what's best for you right now.

(((HUGS)))
 
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You are absolutely 100% correct. Patience is NOT one of my virtues.

I'm not sure J has ever been on the same page. I think a lot of the problem has been the way that this all happened to start and the speed of which it started. I don't know that any of us ever realized the amount of emotional involvement (this is before I realized what poly was, and what it was I really felt I needed). From the very beginning, I've stated that honesty was one of those needs for me, for all of us, so we can keep communicating.

It's hard how to figure out how to back off... it's been painful even. We seem to have such an amazing connection when we are around each other, not just me but when he's around hubby too... backing off seems to make the communication worse. That's when things are the hardest, when he's not around.

He's such a complex individual. He has all of these layers. He keeps a guard up it seems, from what I don't know, I feel like he lets it down when he's around and it makes me want him around all of the time, not the other way around. He's also very intelligent. He knows everything he does, which is another reason I get frustrated. I'm a pretty easy person to deal with as long as you are straight forward with me.... I don't get how that is hard to understand. I suspect that my expectations are too high. Again, the patience thing, it's hard for me.

I wont ever completely write him off.. he's our friend first and foremost. He may or may not be right for the kind of relationship I'm seeking.. but as long as he wants to be part of our family, he will be. We all love him, kids included.

I'm really trying to take everything with a grain of salt right now. I've been especially proud of hubby and the progress he's been making. I feel like I have him back, and he's my priority.
 
What I see is that you have thought long and hard about what you want, but your husband is 100 paces behind you and J is 300 paces behind. The whole concept is new to everyone and I'll bet J is just as confused about how to act and trying to figure out if he is capable of dealing with the situation you desire as everyone else. Give it time and in the meantime just be for a while.

For me, just coming to the realization that loving someone else doesn't mean I don't love my husband any less and vice versa was a big step. I think the sex can complicate and confuse matters. What do you really want, another sex partner or J in your life and part of your family, even if there is no sex?
 
Oh no, I'd much rather have J in our life and family. When I said said I was both comfortable and struggling with going back to the basics, I was referring to the kissing and snuggling. I really enjoyed those times, even if there was nothing else involved. I felt like that was good bonding time for us because of the closeness and when we did a lot of our talking and joking. But yes, more than anything I prefer him to be a part of our family.... and for everybody to be comfortable.

J doesn't strike me as the kind of person who gets confused. Like I said, I have not known him to ever not know exactly what he is doing and why at any one point. I think his biggest thing is not wanting to intrude on mine and hubby's relationship.. he doesn't want to cause any problems and as soon as things go through a tough point, he backs off into the woodwork. It's all part of the learning process though... i know it will be okay in the end, one way or another. I may not get what I see in my head and feel in my heart..... and that's okay.. it's just exhausting going through the ups and downs and back and forths. and yes. I'm impatient :p
 
JenAgain said:
Oh no, I'd much rather have J in our life and family
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Remind yourself of that.


J doesn't strike me as the kind of person who gets confused.
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We all get confused and scared, especially since we really haven't been taught how to handle poly situations whereas we get lessons, good, bad or otherwise on a mono lifestyle every time we turn on the TV. Just saying, it's new and because he cares for you both, he may not quite know how to tread yet.
 
I don't know if I'm that many paces behind... I've done a lot of catching up in the last week. Hopefully it'll stay that way. I'm pretty sure it will though.
 
hmm, well, so much and so little has happened in the last week.

I'm not sure what happened with J. Ended up asking him about a few things i felt like he was being dishonest about.. after he stood me up, apparently because he took a sleeping aid and some pain meds and slept through, again. Wasn't being accusatory, just asking because I wanted to know the truth, no hard feelings, no judgments. Didn't hear from him all night. In the morning got a text that said he was "formulating" his response. Whatever that means.

Then nothing for the next couple of days, and I didn't message him either after a couple of unanswered ones, trying to give him space. I get a "good night" text at 2AM Sunday. Still no response to my inquiry.

Noticed some lovey gooey facebook comments on his "she's not really my girlfriend" page, again.. the honesty thing.. but I'm taking his silence as a hint, and I respect that. I just wish he had the respect in return to be truthful and up front with me. I'm raising the white flag, I hope with space that our friendship will remain in tact as I value the connection that we had, as well as his friendship with my hubby. Hubby and I both agree that J isn't what we are looking for, and it's taking some time, but I'm okay with that. I do miss him, and our chats, and again, I'm hoping with time that will come back.

A lot of it was mistakes on our part, just due to adjusting and learning how this poly thing works. So we learn from our mistakes and move on at a slower pace.

In the meantime, I have made another acquaintance that I have a growing interest in, and he seems to have an interest in me as well. We'll call him W. Hubby doesn't really approve because W has an egotistical (he calls it self confident) air about him. I find that I somewhat enjoy that he's honest about himself and his actions, and he's very predictable. I've asked hubby if I can pursue an platonic friendship with him, spend a little time with him and see how it goes. He might just grow on hubby too.

Another problem that lies with him, is that he also works with hubby. Not directly at the moment, but he will eventually be working side by side with him again. Hubby is nervous about sharing his circle of friends because he thinks that I'm looking at them all differently, and while I'm not using his circle of friends for that, I do enjoy their company, but I'm also keeping an open mind these days, in my eyes everybody has potential, male or female, his friends or not. I'm not pushing my emotions/feelings/attractions down anymore, instead I'm exploring them, and love that I can discuss them with hubby. Unfortunately, my access to single people is somewhat limited. Hubby doesn't want me using dating sites, and I'm fine with that, but the large majority of people that I come across on my own are married. Not that that in itself is a problem, but it's not like monogamous/nonmonogamous status is discussed among us.

The other thing is that for the most part I feel hubby is a good judge of character, and if he likes somebody, I feel that they are safe. His friends are good people and It matters to me that he trusts them and cares about them too. I would like that whoever I end up having relationships with also get along well with my hubby and vice versa.. that's important to me.

So we continue on with this journey.. open minds, open hearts. Learning from our mistakes and knowing that more will be made, and hope that we can learn from them too. I don't consider what happened with J a failure, but an experience from which I have no regrets.
 
Oh Jen, I can relate to you so much - how you want things to fall into place, you want to know where you stand, you need reassurance. I'm a control freak, too, and J. seems very much like my guy, Shorty, in some ways. He needs his space, for many reasons, and it has been a good lesson for me to back off and allow him that. I have a sense that you are coming across a bit too needy for J. Maybe he would like it if you wait and let him take the initiative instead of always responding to prompts from you. Give him some room. Let go the reins of control a little. I think the discomfort of not knowing how things will go and not steering everything the way you want it to be would be good for you. I have a feeling that you will encounter this kind of pushback-pullaway dynamic a lot until you get more comfortable with letting whatever is, just be.

Have you ever tried meditation?
 
I guess I'm a control freak? I'm definitely heavy on the Type A, slightly OCD side. It's gotten worse as I've gotten older. At the same time I'm pretty laid back as far as friendships go. It's hard to offend me, and I'm very open with people. For me, the reason why I need that honesty, is because that's how I deal with my own insecurities. If I know upfront that he is dating somebody, or it's getting serious.. it's how I prepare for the end of what we have/had. He made it clear from the beginning that he was still looking for his person, and when he found her, what we had would have to end.

The girl in question (and I say girl, because she's 18, 8 years younger than him and still in HS even). I asked him about her before and he insisted that they were just friends, so I carried on. After seeing more of their interactions, she obviously was head over heels for him, and more and more he was reciprocating that when he didn't think I could see. When I asked him about it, he insisted it was nothing...but she seems to think it's more than that. That's something I'm not sure I can be a part of. If he wants to be unfaithful to her behind her back, then that's his deal, but I can't knowingly do that to her regardless of how I feel about him. I mentioned this to him, and asked him what his thoughts were, and that was the question in which I never received a response to.

It's not even so much that I feel like I need to know where I stand, or that I'm feeling controlling that I'm realizing he's not the right person. It's that hubby and I both feel like he has little respect for women in general, and we certainly don't feel respected in what we both asked of him at a minimum, which was honesty and communication. He only seemed to want to tell us what he thought we wanted to hear.

Does that make sense? It doesn't make me value our friendship any less, but as far as anything more than that, I just don't think he's a good fit.

I've tried meditation before, but it's been a while. And by a while I mean probably 10 years. Perhaps I should try it again.
 
JenAgain said:
He only seemed to want to tell us what he thought we wanted to hear.
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Ugh, this is a common problem I have found with most men, in general. Even the ones that tout being open and honest can't seem to handle openness and honesty coming from me and they usually pussyfoot around telling me everything, even when I ask. How many times I have heard, "Are you sure you want me to tell you?" Gah! I have a theory that their protective caveman instincts toward women come into play here, as if we're too fragile to hear the truth. It's frustrating!

Ah, well, if he's not the right guy, he's not the right guy.


And yes :eek: I do think you are a bit of a control freak, but I say that with great affection and a smile, because it takes one to know one. :p Most people don't think that of me because on the outside I'm so easy-going and appear unruffled most of the time, but underneath I am usually worrying about something not being the way it should be or the way I want. I can work myself into a tizzy. My soon-to-be-ex-husband couldn't stand it. I think the underlying dynamic of my always wanting to have a sense of control really harmed our relationship, unfortunately. Finding ways to let go really helps, and for that reason the unpredictable nature of my relationship with Shorty is good for me.
 
nycindie said:
Gah! I have a theory that their protective caveman instincts toward women come into play here, as if we're too fragile to hear the truth. It's frustrating!
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While that's one possibility, there are others...it's not always fragility. It may be avoidance of women's secret weapon...tears.
And then again, there's also something about Hell hath no fury like...what was that again? It could just be a survival instinct...the male equivalent of duck & cover. :)
 
ImaginaryIllusion said:
While that's one possibility, there are others...it's not always fragility. It may be avoidance of women's secret weapon...tears.
And then again, there's also something about Hell hath no fury like...what was that again? It could just be a survival instinct...the male equivalent of duck & cover. :)
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THIS!
At least this is what my husband tells me when I find out that he has been "placating" me. He wants to avoid the need to "duck & cover" for what he imagines what my reaction might be.
 
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