Live-in Poly Families?

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Bunnielight

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Is anyone else here involved with a larger live-in poly household?
How does the dynamics of the relationships work around you? Are you close with the other partners? Do you have boundaries on interactions/friendships?

Ex: Zed and I live across the street from our cross-couple, who also live there with Pixies first husband and 4 small children. When we first came in, they stressed the importance of their family dynamic. Which we happily obliged to because, why not? We want to support the family structure.

However, some recent happenings have apparently caused a strain with the other couple because they don't feel we are involved enough. Or that we communicate with them enough.

I don't really feel this is a very fair expectation, honestly. Zed and I have very good reasons as to not want to get very close with them, which I won't detail here. Some of these issues have been discussed, but it's these reasons that have damaged our desire to be closer. I don't really feel that I owe them anything and I'm not sure if I should or not.

Hopefully hearing about some other experiences will give me the wisdom to know how to respond gracefully to this.
 
Bunnielight said:
I don't really feel that I owe them anything and I'm not sure if I should or not.
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I think you can keep your boundary. They will probably accommodate.

My partner is still disappointed that I don't want to be close to my metamour, thus I refuse to come to their home to often. She doesn't need me over either, except if I am interested in her math homework ;). Oh well, so he is disappointed, but overall it works better. Actually, the less pressure there is from his side, the more we can act on the wish to be partners as well as lovers without me getting defensive.
 
Kind of an odd question to me. When wouldn't I maintain my personal boundaries? :confused: I maintain my boundaries in ALL my relationships.

they don't feel we are involved enough. Or that we communicate with them enough.
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They can feel however it is they feel. They can also handle their feelings and do their emotional management. It's not your job to "protect" them from experiencing the full range of human emotion.


Is that how they talk?

"We are not involved enough. You don't communicate enough."

That's just vague complaint. What is "enough" to them? No proposed ideas or requests or anything for new actions/solutions either. That is not a specific request to me.

"I would like to see you more than the 1x a month we do now. Could you be willing to come over once a week for dinner so we can be more involved?"

That's a specific request to me.

Have they made any actual specific, reasonable and rational requests for you to considering changing any of your behaviors?

If not specific, ask them to clarify what they mean or want, and submit new request.

If not rational? Say no. Not rational. Submit new request.

If not reasonable? Say no. Not reasonable. Submit new request.

If specific, rational, and reasonable? Then you can consider the request and respond with one of these:
  • "Yes, I am willing to do that. Thanks for asking politely. "
  • "No, I am not willing to do that. But thank you for asking politely. "

You are reporting honestly and politely where you stand. What more do people want?

If they are just sitting around moaning and groaning making random "announcements" expecting you to jump up and serve? Wanting you to mind reader them and you really don't want to be doing that? Don't.

Keep it simple on you. Don't take on other people's jobs for them.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
The only things you or they NEED to know are things like sex health labs and sex health practices (because they could impact your own health) and calendar dates because you need to know where to be when.

There might be things you or they might WANT to know, but it is not a need. It's ok for you not to want to be super tight with them. It is ok for your household to run how it does across the street without being all up in their household.



They can feel however it is they feel. They can handle their feelings and do their emotional management.

Have they made any actual requests for you to change any behaviors? If so, you can consider and respond with either "Yes, thanks for asking. I will do that" or "No, but thank you for asking. I will not do that."

Keep it simple. Don't take on other people emotional management for them.

Galagirl
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This is something that I'm not so sure that they realize they're doing.

The night all this happened and they came over to speak with us was the second time this sort of conversation has happened.

I know they ask us to tell them if we have issue with them, but I didn't even remotely feel comfortable enough to pull out the laundry list of issues I have with their attitudes and treatment of Dean, Pixie, AND Pixies children. So all I disclosed was my issue with the way the children have been treated. They want us to be more involved. The kids are my main priority in our communication.

I don't feel right going to them over issues with Dean and Pixie unless we are there to witness instead of being the third party going to them. I feel like they're asking us not to be partial to Dean and Pixie and that just plain will not happen.


After talking to another poly friend about this, she believes that my plan of action needs to be focusing on getting closer to the children. That's something we DO want. It will also enable me to be more involved and help enforce the changes I requested. Maybe once that happens they will get the picture and leave us alone about it.

Zed and I just can't help but be annoyed by their unending expectations that we never agreed to.
 
Sorry we are cross posting.

And I know you want to be bogged down writing lots of details about your personal life.

I am going to guess on some things though because I am getting a bit confused. Correct me if I am wrong, ok?

CAST

  • So basically there's you and Zed living in your house.
  • Pixie and Dean are your quad couple that you guys date. They live across the street.
  • Pixie's Ex and his partner (John and Jane) also live there with them because they help coparent the children.

BACKGROUND

Without getting too deep into detail...

You and Zed don't want to get too tight with John and Jane.
  • They have unreasonable expectations of you.
  • They lack personal boundaries themselves, so they have a hard time seeing and respecting your personal boundaries.
  • Their attitudes and treatment of Dean, Pixie, AND the children turns you off. Brief examples:
    • (John and Jane) want to give (you and Zed) advice about dating (Dean and Pixie). You are not up for that and think that matters between (You, Zed, Dean and Pixie) is not their business.
    • (John and Jane) like to triangulate and pit (You + Zed) against (Dean and Pixie). So you prefer there be another person in the room to prevent triangulation.
    • (John and Jane) want (you and Zed) to play favorites. With (John and Jane) getting special treatment over (Dean and Pixie -- the people you are actually dating.)
  • You rather stay away from them as much as possible and maintain a polite/civil relationship when you have to interact with them. And not a fake "best friends" or fake "all one happy family" deal that they seem to be after.

COMMUNICATION PROBLEM (CHRONIC)

(John and Jane) ask (you and Zed) to tell them up front if you have issue with them.

  • Past experience doing that has been _____.
    • Say they will be ok, but fly off the handle in actuality?
    • "Grudge harvest" to hold it over your head later?
    • Gunnysack? Say it is your turn to speak, but whoosh all their stored up stuff instead?
    • Something else?
  • As a result, at this point you are not comfortable telling them about ALL the issues you have with their behaviors. Just the kid stuff.

SPECIFIC PROBLEM (THIS TIME)

You mentioned the issue with (John and Jane) treating the kids poorly.
  • John and Jane are willing to help with that issue by doing/changing ____ in their behavior.

You mention wanting more time with the kids.
  • (John and Jane) are eager for you to spend more time with the kids because they want you to be more involved (with the kids) or (with John and Jane?)

YOUR CONCERNS

You are leery of the rider in blue. Why can't it be a plain "I spend more time with the kids so I can be more involved with the kids?"

1) Is this that you are worried they are using your desire to spend more time with the kids like bait to lure you in and it is not sincere change but just a Hoover?

2) Are you worried there's strings attached? They are all like "Sure! Play with the kids! No problem!" and given past experience you wonder if later they will pull it out to whine with? "Why won't you do X! We let you play with the kids!" like you owe them a favor now?

3) Something else?

BOTTOM LINE

I don't know if it helps any, but stick to your boundaries.

  • Speak you truth.
  • Keep your boundaries.
  • Let them deal with their feelings and their own emotional management.
  • Encourage clear, specific requests that are rational and reasonable. Decline ones that are not.

Be like a toaster. If they put the bread in right, then you might make some toast. But you are not going to make toast happen from nothing.

If their requests are vague, unspoken, not clear, not specific, not reasonable, not rational? Don't do it. Let them be disappointed or whatever they feel. They can update their behavior and try making a request again.

If they put the bread on the counter, beside the toaster, in but don't press the button or plug the toaster in? Guess what? No toast is gonna come out.

Keep life easier on you dealing with these people.

If you want to ask the parents to make a playdate for you and the kids, just be up front. Over email and CC the other parent to keep them in to loop, but then you don't get sucked into windy conversation with the parent you don't want to talk to much. Just straight to the point.

"I would like to invite Kids to come with me to the playground on Saturday from 3 PM - 5 PM. Could that work for you guys?" If yes? Show up on time then pick up kids and leave. Skip hanging out with John and Jane. They are not the ones you came to see.

Galagirl
 
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When it comes to kids, I really think people need to respect whoever is in the home taking care of the kids wishes. Usually this is mom, but sometimes it's dad. I had/have a real problem with my parents over ruling my rules with the kids. So I always used to tell them, "Mom's the boss!"

I recently visited R and H, and they have a four year old. Of course he loved getting attention from me, but when H would tell him to do something, he would look at me hoping I would over rule her. My response, "listen to your mom." I think it would be more important if you have concerned about the kids to talk to the primary parent, not the others involved. There were times when I felt that R and H were overly worried about their son bothering me, but I kept my mouth shut. Later I understood why, he is a very persistent stubborn little guy, that wants what he wants when he wants it.

Basically I understand people trying to keep all parents wishes in mind, but it really doesn't work. There needs to be a primary parent. Otherwise the rules change a lot for the kids depending on what parent is around, and it is so confusing for them. My ex husband loved to come along and over rule me, because he didn't like the way I was doing something, when he was gone for weeks at a time. It was very frustrating for me and the kids. It was just one of many ways where he was controlling. He didn't want to let me be the primary parent even though he took care of the kids less then 1/4th of what I think one parent should. So I was left to do 1 and 3/4th parenting with him barging in anytime he wanted to, to make things more difficult, just saying. It gets harder when the kids get older because they will use these multiple standards to get out of doing things you've told them to do.
 
I'll respond further when I'm not on my phone, but I wanted to clarify the kids issue further. Because I completely understand why anyone would read that and think it's not my business:

I've been very hesitant on stating what I think on the way the children are treated, but when certain lines are crossed, I have to put my foot down if I'm going to be around and involved. Especially if they ask for it. Their children are 9 and under and they have little to no filter on the way they talk to their kids. I don't tolerate cursing out children nor do I tolerate threats to physically harm them. And both have happened quite often.

This is an issue that both Dean and Pixie have tried to resolve with them. Dean is ignored and Pixie becomes lax because John and Jane don't take accountability well.

Just to clarify. I am fiercely protective of children and won't hold back if I'm given the green light.
 
Ah.

Is this a DCF matter? Are there plans to NOT be living together with them any more? What's the custody arrangement? Has Dean adopted the children? Has Pixie called Dept of Children and Families about the threats and what she should do?

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
Is this a DCF matter?

Galagirl
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No, though they have dealt with it before, it's more about the neighbourhood seeing the unusual poly dynamic. I've never actually seen them follow through with physically harming them. They are more prone to ground them than they are to spank them.

I just know that their words cut more than they know even if they aren't serious about "beating them for not cleaning their room" or "killing them for getting a C"

Even them telling the kids to get their "fucking asses in the house" is enough to make me want to backhand them both.

The kids (the 9 year old especially) have a lot of anxiety because of it and it kills me to see it happening. I am a victim of extreme child abuse and John and Jane are not. They're not bad people, so I feel a sense of responsibility to show them the way their words affect their children's developing dignities.
 
  • I am going to beat you both for not cleaning your room
  • I am going to kill you for getting a C
  • Get you fucking ass in the house

Sounds like verbal abuse to me. That's a rough way to be talking to kids. Physical abuse is not the only one that "counts." :(

I think you could have a word with Pixie and see if you can call DCF about what to do. They've seen it all -- so hopefully they have resources or suggestions.

Then both of you could be more up front with John and Jane.
  • Make the request for them to refrain from cussing and threatening children.
  • Ask if they are aware the 9 yr old walks on eggshells/suffers anxiety as a result
  • Ask if they are willing to stop the behavior. Ask if they are willing to look at resources/take class/whatever if they want to stay in the Kid House.
  • Ask if they are willing to change custody agreements if they prefer to move out of the Kid House and NOT be full time parents.


It's not like there's a lack of other couples here willing to do more. Maybe Pixie and John are better off renegotiating custody agreements so John and Jane can move out. Then the times they ARE around the kids they can keep their cool better because the are not longer primary parents on call all the time?

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
  • I am going to beat you both for not cleaning their room
  • I am going to kill you for getting a C
  • Get you fucking ass in the house

Sounds like verbal abuse to me.

Physical is not the only one that "counts." :(
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I agree completely. The verbal abuse I experienced was much worse than the physical. And I was even drug around by my hair.

When I told them I had this issue, they seemed to agree and said they were working on it. But to me, it doesn't matter. It should have never been in question. That alone has permanently damaged my willingness to go to John and Jane over anything. Unless it's to keep them in check over the children.

I'm not willing to put Pixies custody on the line. She does her best. But I AM willing to treat them exactly the way they treat their children when the time comes. They asked me to be more involved. This is me being more involved.

I already spoke to both Pixie and Dean privately about this and they are in full agreement that I have every right to do so.

Dean seems to be more relieved than anything. He's been losing this fight for 4 years now and silenced because of his "lack of experience"

It's going to be much harder to silence me when it comes to this.
 
Then it pretty much sounds like you know what you want to be doing.

But I AM willing to treat them exactly the way they treat their children when the time comes.
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I'm not sure about that "HOW." I hope your plan is not to return verbal abuse for verbal abuse trying to "make them see" or "shame them into behaving."

It makes me wonder if the kids watching all that with kid eyes will end up thinking that's just how adults are.

Say nothing (Dean), say one thing but don't enforce (Pixie) or verbally abuse people (John and Jane targeting kids and you targeting John and Jane).

Do stick up for kids. Just think out the HOW of it carefully. See if professionals can help you any here and advise. It sounds like a thorny issue. And the kids might need counseling from a kid therapist too.

I am sorry you all deal in this. :(

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
Then it pretty much sounds like you know what you want to be doing.



I'm not sure about that "HOW." I hope your plan is not to return verbal abuse for verbal abuse trying to "make them see."

It makes me wonder if the kids watching all that with kid eyes will end up thinking that's just how adults are.

Say nothing (Dean), say one thing but don't enforce (Pixie) or verbal abuse (John and Jane and you).

Do stick up for kids. Just think out the HOW of it carefully. See if professional can help you any here. It sounds like a thorny issue. And the kids might need counseling from a kid therapist too.

I am sorry you all deal in this.

GL!
Galagirl
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I don't intend on resorting to returning the abuse to them. Not immediately. I do intend on holding them accountable, including pulling them to the side if I have to.
 
Bunnie, good for you for sticking up for those children.

From my perspective: I was not physically abused. I was, however, severely verbally and emotionally abused by my mother, and then by my kids' father.

There were times I literally prayed that I *would* get hit, or shoved, or something. Partly because then I could stop worrying about when or whether it would happen, and partly because then I would have something to show others to prove that I was being abused.

Verbal and emotional abuse don't leave marks you can *see*...but the marks they leave are far deeper and last far longer than any bruise or broken bone ever could.
 
There are three people in my poly household. We don't have rules about relating to each other, except the obvious things like be honest.

None of us have any partners outside our three-person household.

@ Bunnielight ... you are in the right as far as I am concerned, to stick up for Pixie's kids and to hold Pixie's ex and his partner accountable.
 
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