Messed up situation

A

Amstel

New member
Hey everyone,

A view months ago I introduced myself on this forum. Since then a lot has happened and I would really appreciate your advice because I am hurting, a lot.

I have been in a relationship with J. for more than four years. We are both 25, and I always saw him as the one I would get married to, have children with, etcetera. We were in an open relationship for about two years, which worked for for us since we are both quite experimental. About half a year ago I met S. She is also a woman, and we started as a sexual thing, but after a while we fell in love. I told my boyfriend about my feelings and he decided that he could live with my 'extra' relationship. I put in a lot of effort, and although it wasn't always easy, I managed to create a situation that worked for the both of us. She, however, didn't tell her boyfriend at first, but did after I told her I wouldn't be seeing her anymore if she kept up the cheating. He wasn't to happy about it, but he stayed with her. I wasn't to happy with that situation, because I like her boyfriend, and I wanted him to be happy, but I figured that he is an autonomous person, and that he could walk away if he wanted to. I felt guilty though, since I hate cheating and lying, and never expected nor wanted to be a part of it.

This whole thing was good(for me at least) for a view months. I was very happy with my girlfriend and my boyfriend, and I felt so lucky that my boyfriend loved me enough to let me see her, love her. Her boyfriend started to be ok with it when he found out that I didn't form a threat for their relationship and my boyfriend also said he was fine. For me it al felt very honest and beautiful... And then I found out that my boyfriend and my girlfriend were having sex on a regular basis. Without telling me or her boyfriend, or anybody else for that matter. They don't really have another explanation besides the fact that it 'just happened' and that the 'could't help it'. They knew it was wrong but they didn't tell me because they thought I would end it with them. All those times my boyfriend was in her town 'for work', he was actually sleeping with her. I kind of felt that they were attracted to each other and I tried to address the situation so we could talk about it, but my boyfriend told me that I saw things that weren't there. Oh yes they were there. They aren't in love they say, It's just a sex thing. But they lied, and they cheated and I'm so confused. My girlfriend seems to have a pattern of screwing up things that are important to her, she didn't tell her boyfriend though, not about this time, nor all the other times she apparently did this. They are still together, ignorance seems to be bliss.

I tried to cope with this situation, but my trust in both of them was so violated that I ended up leaving them both. So I'm alone now, but the whole situation left me with a lot of doubts about my own role in this. Did I invite this whole situation when I decided to try to have a relationship that moved outside of the ordinary patterns? Did I create this situation when I asked my boyfriend permission to have a relationship outside of our partnership. Did I screw this up myself by blurring the lines? I honestly tried to do the right thing here, and I feel so damaged and hurt now. I am not a victim, I know that, and I will love again and blablabla, but still.
 
By the way, in my earlier post I referred to my boyfriend as B. which was basically short for boyfriend, but his name is J.
 
Answer to all of your questions is, probably not. Based on what you've said. .... still you dated a woman who cheated on her boyfriend with you. Sorry, but cheaters generally keep cheating. If it's any consolation, it's unlikely she'll be faithful with your ex boyfriend.
 
Hey polyinpractice,

Thanks for your reaction. I suppose you're right, although I did not ever participated in actual cheating. She was aloud to have extra sexual partners, falling in love was just another thing and I wanted the boyfriend to be okay with this before proceeding to another level. I wasn't aware of this pattern until recently. I just feel so stupid.
 
Cheaters have to decide they actually want to address the issues that created their mistaken belief that lying is ok if they are going to change.

It does happen. I am one.
But-it's rare because it's a LOT of work. Most people aren't interested in doing that much work.
 
I am sorry. That just sucks ass.

In answer to your question, no you did not cause this. You did the right thing - you were honest with your bf, and insisted your gf be honest with hers. It is beyond me why they couldn't have just brought their attraction to your attention in order to incorporate it into the overall relationship.

And once I wrote "it is beyond me," two possibilities sprang to mind. 1. Given your insistence with honesty, your gf probably felt that you would demand that she tell her bf, and she was too immature for that. 2. Some people get a cheap thrill out of cheating.

In any case, I am sorry this happened, but I don't see anything that you could have done differently.
 
Hey LovingRadiance,

I salute you for taking the time an effort to change your believes about lying. I'm sure it must have been very difficult, and I think you should be very proud of yourself for making it through. Any chance you want to share a little about what you went through? The thing is that I don't write my girlfriend of for being a cheater. I know she is a genuinely caring and loving person and besides the cheating she has been nothing but wonderful an sweet to me. She just seems to have this recurring problem with 'ending up in situations she knows she shouldn't be in'. Is she downright weak? I don't think so, I watched her in other areas of her life and she seems persistent, brave and hard working. How come she ended up screwing the one person that meant the world to me? She's beautiful an attractive, she could have had millions of other guys, why him? Was it about me? About him? About being in a 'to good to be true' situation an subconsciously not being able to handle that? I is just so surreal, I can barely grasp it that someone would do that to herself. She just hates herself for it, her self loathing is so overwhelming that I wouldn't be able to be with het, even if I wanted to. Anyone has any idea about self distractive patterns like this, is there any way she could change this behavior?
 
Yuck! No you did not invite this. You are very smart to cut ties with them. They could have confessed they had feelings for each other and proceeded from there but they chose to be sneaky. I'm sure a huge element for them was the fact that they were sneaking.
 
Did I invite this whole situation when I decided to try to have a relationship that moved outside of the ordinary patterns?
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Just that? No.

But it could stem somewhat from the character of WHO you start a relationship with. Having a GF who is willing to cheat wasn't a great partner choice. Weak in character. If she's got "cheater habits" she's got cheater habits. Sigh.

Her poor BF -- I hope he moves on too if she's chronically cheating. I am glad for your sake that you have removed yourself from her poor behavior so she cannot ding you again like that.

Did I create this situation when I asked my boyfriend permission to have a relationship outside of our partnership?
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No. You ASKED FIRST.

He did not ask first to change agreements between you (from the sound of it). He cheated and lied.

Did I screw this up myself by blurring the lines?
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No. The only ethical thing you could have done better is not take up with the GF til she was honest with her BF and she asked for his goodwill first too.

That is (you + GF) launching something. That was already resolved and forgiven.

This is a new separate issue from (your GF + your BF).

Could not connect two separate things.

I honestly tried to do the right thing here, and I feel so damaged and hurt now. I am not a victim, I know that, and I will love again and blablabla, but still.
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Of course. It sucks all around. I am sorry you have been cheated on by the very people who are supposed to love you. :( They could have come to you first if they wanted to share sex together and not gone behind your back.

I hope the healing time comes soon for you.

I know she is a genuinely caring and loving person and besides the cheating she has been nothing but wonderful an sweet to me.
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How is cheating loving and caring behavior? It isn't. I see that you want to believe she is genuinely caring and loving toward you, but struggle to reconcile the fact that actually... she isn't. This isn't the first time cheating in her history so it can't be written off as a mistake in judgement. It is habit. You arriving at full acceptance for this will take time.

Sigh. I am so sorry. :(

She just seems to have this recurring problem with 'ending up in situations she knows she shouldn't be in'. Is she downright weak?
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See? HABIT.

Yes, she is downright weak. She has bad manners, poor impulse control and is weak in character. Your BF also is weak in character. He helped to cheat.

If you know you shouldn't be in a situation, you could say NO and take steps to not go there. Especially if getting your jollies there will hurt people you love.

She just hates herself for it, her self loathing is so overwhelming that I wouldn't be able to be with her, even if I wanted to. Anyone has any idea about self distractive patterns like this, is there any way she could change this behavior?
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IMHO? "Cookie jar sorry" drama. Not at all sorry to be stealing the cookies. Just sorry she got caught and wanting to slide on being held accountable to her behavior.

If she now behaves in a way that "keeps you away" and is overdramatic about how "horrible" she is? Bottom line? She does not have to own it, change it, grow up or do anything responsible.

Don't get sucked into her "Poor lil ol' me" song and dance and go rushing in to forgive her and absolve her so she doesn't have to feel yucky. She can reap what she sows.

You could worry about YOU and your short and long term health and well being instead. Let her worry about her. You did the right thing in removing yourself from crazy and respecting your OWN limit for not staying in a bad situation. Kudos to you!

Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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My blog has tons about it. You're welcome to read to your hearts content. ;) LOTS of info on my learning process in there regarding poly and life in general.

BUT a VERY VERY truncated version
-how I ended up cheating was that I wasn't getting what I needed emotionally from our relationship and nothing I said was getting through. After a couple of years, a traumatic scenario happened and I went to my best friend (who had been an on again/off again lover for years prior to the marriage) and one thing led to another (mostly me leading) and we ended up in bed.
Years of suffering, drama, ridiculous issues and much therapy later;
I know that my husband and I weren't communicating well (even though I thought we were). We had whole different personal definitions for things like love, marriage, honesty, commitment, friendship, relationship, responsibility. Quite seriously all of our conversation SOUNDED like we understood each other-but we were speaking completely different languages without knowing it-because our definitions weren't the same and we didn't know it.

Additionally-due to trauma in his childhood-he didn't trust women period. Or more succinctly, he trusted that all women WOULD screw over a man and only wanted men for their money. Period. It never occurred to him that there was any other possibility. So he flat COULD NOT comprehend why I wasn't happy with him; because he's an EXCELLENT financial provider. He REALLY didn't realize that I REALLY meant it when I said I didn't give a rip about his $$$.

I never thought lying was right in and of itself. I don't think most people do. But, I do think most people delude themselves into believing the various excuses for why any given lie is ok. I realized after nearly destroying my whole family-that lying isn't ok. Period. If I need to fart-I need to fart. Pretending otherwise is lying. Making excuses for why a lie is acceptable, only leads to making more excuses.
I didn't want to hurt him. I KNEW I Loved him. I didn't want a divorce. I didn't want to separate our kids. I didn't want to fail my stepson. BUT I needed to be cared for and he wasn't doing that in any functional way EXCEPT sex and money.
I knew I was a quality time person.
My affair-was primarily emotional for 10 years. But SERIOUSLY emotionally involved. We were and are deeply in love. It was sexual a half a dozen times over a 10 year period (same person). I got a need met and I allowed myself to believe that keeping it to myself was less hurtful than allowing my husband the freedom and right to decide for himself if he was ok with me having another lover.

I was wrong.

When I found out about polyamory-I cried and cried and cried. Then, I searched and found this board and started posting. A month later, I came completely clean (he did know I had cheated-but I had never admitted it), explained that I did love more than one person and I couldn't keep lying and live with myself.
I told him I would understand if he divorced me. But it wasn't what I wanted and I hoped he would give it 6 months of educating ourselves about other options before making a final decision.
He got rip roaring drunk and didn't speak to me for a week. Then the 2.5 year process of revenge and trying to work it out started. 2 stints of living apart, 6 months and 1 year; while dating each other. Bf lived here the whole time.
Every random and seemingly asinine rule he created-we followed. All of the passwords to every email account, facebook etc-he had. He was free to browse anything written anywhere etc.

Finally-he decided to forgive and truly let the past go. But-it took me spending 2.5 years never lying about ANYTHING or hiding ANYTHING. I don't lie or hide ANYTHING AT ALL. If I am wearing no underwear, even birthday presents and xmas presents-I didn't hide them or wrap them in advance. He had access to EVERY SINGLE THING I DID OR SAID OR WROTE ETC.

It was a huge life change and some people get REALLY offended. Because I'm point blank honest. I am out about poly because-to not be out would require me to lie by omission at the least. I don't do that.
I don't lie if someone asks me how the dress looks on them or if they are balding or WHATEVER.
I am HONEST. I try not to be BRUTALLY honest-I try to be considerately honest. But I don't lie.

Honestly-it wasn't a hard choice. What is hard, is listening to the myriad excuses people give for the various things that they "can't" be honest about.
What was hard-was knowing that all of the pain and anger and destruction-came from me not being willing to be honest from the beginning. YES there would have been hurt and anger and destruction that way too-but it would be different.
 
To add another voice to the chorus, it's not your fault and you did nothing wrong. Your biggest sin is being a poor judge of character.

Why him? We'll, probably all the reasons you like him, and he's "there," and she probably assumed you wouldn't find out. But answer yourself this: would you have agreed to the arrangement if they'd asked you first? Your "why him" question comes across to me as though he was off-limits. And, maybe he was, but that could be a motivator for lying about it. Not an excuse mind you, but a possible explanation...

I wonder... does she realize what she's doing is wrong and do it anyway? Or does she find ways to justify her behavior and convince herself she's doing right? No way to know, really.

People can change, but they have to genuinely want it for themselves, and it's a lot of work.
 
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