Metamour Meetups

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basilisc

New member
My wife and I are new-ish to our open/poly status, though we're quite cognizant of our desires and goals and have been careful about creating clear expectations for ourselves to avoid pitfalls. As I become gradually more active in the local community however I've begun to realize that our rules aren't sufficient for dealing with some scenarios, and so I wanted to come here and see if I can get some advice and real-world examples for how to deal with a few things.

The issue most on my mind is how to handle socializing with partners' partners. We actually don't have a practice of meeting each others' partners (I don't meet her boyfriends, she doesn't meet my girlfriends) but we both are finding it more and more common to meet people who do want us to meet their partners, such as my wife's boyfriend setting up a meeting between my wife and his wife, and a situation which is clearly approaching is the day when one of us ends up socializing with a couple, one of whom we are dating.

I understand that like everything, this is a case of PAFO to some extent, but I wanted to try to reach out to other folks with more experience to get an idea of how you act in these situations. All feedback is welcome.
 
First, a matter of semantics: "Expectations" is probably a better term than "rules," though you may have been using them synonymously. "Expectations" says, to me at least, "Here is what I hope to see happen"; whereas "rules" says "Here's what you have to do because I say so." One is setting boundaries, the other is trying to control someone else's behavior.

Second, I'm trying to figure out "PAFO" and not having any luck; what does that stand for?

With that out of the way...

Not all metamours want to meet, and if they meet, they don't always want to socialize. My personal preference--which unfortunately I'm not living right now--is to keep Hubby and any other partner I have separate, and to not even have any metamours myself. That's the way it was in my two previous relationships, and it worked quite well as far as I was concerned. It worked for Hubby too; he met each of my previous boyfriends, only because as he said he wanted to "be able to pick them out of a lineup", but he expressed a firm desire to not ever socialize with either of them in any context.

(My current boyfriend does what I call "poly-blob", where he does expect his partners to meet each other and each other's spouses, and likes to socialize with them and their spouses, and for whatever reason, Hubby is now saying he prefers it that way... But that's also off-topic from your question.)

Point being... not everyone expects, or even wants, their partners to meet each other. It's possible for you to find people who think the way you do. Your choices that I see are to either deal with having to meet your metamours because other people want you to even if you don't want to, or establishing up front with people you date that meeting metamours is not a thing that's going to happen, and if they don't agree to that, you don't date them.
 
My partner and I have been navigating some of these issues recently too. I think there's no real reason at all to meet any of her partners, or vice versa, unless that person looks like becoming a more permanent fixture. She's been seeing the same guy for about six months now, and although I was fairly open to meeting him, I didn't want it to be a big thing, you know? They usually just meet up at his place and hang around, so I didn't want to crash their date time. Likewise, I didn't want it to be all formal and like 'now you must meet my partner and see if she approves' by inviting him over to ours. In the end we met up last week quite naturally as he was signed up for the same sporting event we were, so it made sense to springboard something social after that all together.

Meeting was a good thing I think. It feels a bit weird to me to know a lot about someone via someone else, and yet not have any personal connection there. Your mileage may vary, as they say, but for me I'd rather meet my metamours in due course. That doesn't mean he and I are now planning to hang out a bunch but I'd like to think that, for instance, now that the ice is broken he's someone we'd both feel comfortable inviting to our housewarming or something.
 
I'm also having trouble in this area. The person I started seeing recently wants to meet my boyfriend. I'm ok with that, but not absolutely sure if my boyfriend is up for it... And to be sincere I'm affraid it might be an awkward encounter. How do I act towards them? How not make it too uptight?
Would anyone give some examples of such meetups? What do you usually do?
 
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When Hubby met my last boyfriend (the one who broke up with me this past summer), the three of us met at a local restaurant for dinner. We had food and chatted, and it was kind of awkward because neither guy is particularly given to small talk or social conversation, and neither am I... but since I was the hinge, they both expected me to carry the conversation.

When Hubby met my current boyfriend, it wasn't as bad. Woody has "movies with friends" night some weekends and asked me to bring Hubby along if Hubby wanted to go. Since there were other people there besides just the three of us, and there were British comedy TV shows involved, it wasn't so awkward, but the guys were still able to get to know each other.
 
Thanks, that helps, I'm really new to this. And I'm definetly feeling the pressure on probably having to lead the conversention, which also scares me a bit not being that great at small talk
 
I think it helps to determine the "why" when people want to meet metamours. For example, I don't necessarily need to meet my metamours, but do insist on the basic ability to be civil at important social functions or emergencies. Also, if a person is nested or partnered, I need some kind of reasonable assurances they're actually poly, and not just cheating. None of my criteria need be met only via a face-to-face, and often I prefer it be not face-to-face. If one of my metamours expressed the same needs as me, and insisted they could only be met face-to-face, I'd probably ask what that meeting looked like, and why they couldn't be met another way.

The answer might be as simple as that is how someone interacts best. Or, it may be something else entirely, like they have an easier time being considerate of someone they can put a face to. Or, perhaps their partner has been less than honest in the past, and they feel they need reassurances that everything is up-front (yeah, red flag there).

My main concern with an insistence (as opposed to a more naturally meeting, for example, should it happen) on face-to-face comes primarily when dealing with female metamours, and is based on experience (most of which has been negative, so YMMV). For all of the female metamours who insisted on meeting, it was, without exception, about territorial control and comparisons. I don't play those games, and don't allow those types of meetings to go on very long once it becomes clear that is what is going on. I've never had this from a male metamour (though, I am not sure how much of that is because they're less jealous/competetive, and how much is because gay female relationships are seen by many hetero men as simply hot and non-emotional; but, meh, who cares, as long as I don't have to deal with them). Actually, I've never had a male metamour require a face to face, now that I think about it.
 
There really is no consensus about when, how, or even whether or not to meet metamours. It seems like every poly person has a slightly different ideal scenario, and we all have valid reasons.

Personally, I prefer to have a friendly acquaintance type thing between metamours. I'm not close to the other ladies in my husbands life, by any stretch, but I think they are great people. We see each other at parties and events and get along really well. I can call them or text them, it's not awkward. We can handle scheduling stuff directly if we need to.

I'm currently seeing a guy who has zero interest in meeting metamours and it's frustrating for me. I'd like to be able to have both the men in my life at my birthday celebration without it being a big deal.

This is one of those things that comes down to personal preference. If you don't want to meet your metamours, just be honest about it. It helps if you can say why so potential partners can understand where you're coming from.

If you're on the fence, I'd say give it a shot. See how it feels. I have found it to be surprisingly fun, meeting my husbands partners or introducing him to my boyfriends.
 
I've met one of my metamours, but not the other because Sprite lives part time with one. Occasionally he is at the house when I come over. Once we all met up at a poly event. It wasn't all that awkward, though new to me.

How do I approach it? As if I am meeting a friend of the girl I am dating. Same if I met one of my wife's partners. I have no need to become emotionally attached to any of them. I would prefer not to because that is just how I am.

I don't think Cat would want to meet any of them. With her it's a territorial issue...lol.
 
KC43 said:
First, a matter of semantics: "Expectations" is probably a better term than "rules," though you may have been using them synonymously. ... One is setting boundaries, the other is trying to control someone else's behavior.
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Nope, I meant rules. I was referring to the rules my wife and I have established to make sure we don't do anything dangerous or hurtful. Things like always wearing a condom, texting each other where we're going to be (particularly for first dates) and such. We're not controlling "someone else's behavior," we're setting parameters. I can understand that you might not like the word "rules" but for us it works perfectly well.

KC43 said:
Second, I'm trying to figure out "PAFO" and not having any luck; what does that stand for?
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Oh, sorry. "Play and find out." A game/game development term that's used to mean that you never really know the answer until you test it.

KC43 said:
(My current boyfriend does what I call "poly-blob", where he does expect his partners to meet each other and each other's spouses, and likes to socialize with them and their spouses, and for whatever reason, Hubby is now saying he prefers it that way... But that's also off-topic from your question.)
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Actually, no. That's exactly on topic for my question. Based on the responses I'm reading, I think I was unclear with my original post actually (not surprising, since I wrote half of it at home and the other half in the Emergency Room; long story, but suffice to say everything is alright) so let me try to clarify a bit.

I'm aware that everyone does it differently, and I'm not looking for advice on if, when, or how to meet metamours - I already know that I don't want to meet my wife's partners and she doesn't want to meet mine - I'm looking for experiences from other people, like the one you hinted at in the above quote. How do you deal with the fact that this is different from your preferred dynamic? How do you 'behave' (I need a better word there) when you're out with your boyfriend and his girlfriend (for example)? How does your boyfriend behave? How does his girlfriend?

Even this wording feels awkward. You know what? Time for an ASCII diagram.

(my wife's bf) -- (my wife) -- (me) -- (my gf) -- (my gf's spouse)

So above you see the line of my relationships and metamours one step removed from me. What I'm wondering is, if we are not a pod, and each are only intimate with those people adjacent to us, what is generally considered 'appropriate' by the masses? If me, wife, and wife's boyfriend are out (which we wouldn't be; this is hypothetical) what is the etiquette? I can't say I'd be thrilled with her boyfriend behaving intimately affectionate toward her in front of me, but I likewise would feel awkward being affectionate toward her in front of him, since it would indicate a double standard. As I said, we would never plan this scenario to happen, but what if he bumped into us at a bar? More realistically, if me, girlfriend, and my girlfriend's spouse are out, how would I act? It's the same scenario, but now I'm playing a different role. This is also something I wouldn't necessarily jump at the opportunity to do, but it is also something that could happen inadvertently, since we all travel in similar social circles, and particularly if we attended a poly meetup.

This is where my PAFO line comes in of course; I know that ultimately everyone has to establish their own comfort levels with these things, so even though I've framed the scenario this way I'm not literally asking "what should I do," I'm instead asking "what do you do," in the hope that other peoples' experiences will help me understand what I want better.

There are of course other levels to this issue as well, like the fact that my wife's boyfriend has been subtly but persistently suggesting that the four of us (including his wife) should go socialize, despite being told repeatedly that I'd prefer not to, and the situation is further exacerbated by the fact that his wife and I dated briefly until she ghosted on me, but that's probably a discussion for another thread. Or an episode of a daytime talk show.
 
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We probably exemplify the epitome of "kitchen table poly" as I live with my husband and my boyfriend and we all "dated" Lotus and we all hung out and socialized with Lotus and her husband. Anyone I am likely to date is already known to the boys as I rarely socialize outside of "our" circle of friends.

Dude did go on some OKC dates with "outside" folks and MrS and I went out with him and one of the women. Dude thinks that if he thinks people are awesome then he wants to share that with other people he thinks are awesome. My interaction with any metamours/potential metamours would be the same as meeting any other "friends-of-friends" - definitely civil but any other degree of socialization would depend on how much we got along regardless of romantic entanglements of others.

At private social functions (not public) I interact with my boys in whatever way seems natural at the time, regardless of whether metamours are present.
 
I think "etiquette" is dictated by all those involved. I prefer Sprite's style, which is to be able to show affection in front of whoever. Pretty much what JaneQSmythe said above. To me, anything different smacks of jealousy and other bad things.
 
"Parameters" would seem more synonymous with "boundaries" than "rules". (And, as an aside, if you and your wife require each other to use condoms with other partners, you *are* controlling the behavior of those other partners, because they have to use a condom or not have sex with you; they don't have the option of not using a condom.) But again, semantics.

That said...

There is no "appropriate for the masses." It isn't about "appropriate for the masses," it's solely about what's appropriate for *you*.

How do I handle my current relationship not matching my preferences? Not particularly well, to be honest.

When more than one of Woody's partners is present, most of the time it's a date night for one but not the other(s). He greets both/all with a hug and kiss, because that's just how he greets women he cares about whether they're his partner or not, and tries to interact equally with both/all while showing just a little bit more attention to the one who's his date. So far that's happened three times since I've been in the picture, and two of those times, I was the one who was his date for the night. The first of those times, the other partner who was there was Highlight, and Woody had somehow "forgotten" to tell me that she was also his partner, which almost caused me to break up with him several days later when he finally told me. (It was good that I didn't know; I wouldn't have gone if I had. But it felt like he'd been dishonest by not telling me.) The other time it was my night, it was a movie night at Woody's and Stella was the other partner; Woody greeted each of us the same way and sat between us with one arm around each of us. When Stella left, I stepped out of the room to let Woody say goodbye to her, but that was more because I'm uncomfortable seeing physical affection between any pair of partners, because I feel like I'm perving on a private moment. Both of those times, I felt very uncomfortable and wasn't sure how to interact with Woody in front of them, even though he had told me I didn't have to act any differently toward him than I normally would.

The time that it was Highlight's date night and I was there... Let's just say that is never going to happen again. It was uncomfortable for both of us (for her, it was partly because it was the same karaoke night deal as the first time she and I met, and she doesn't like karaoke, crowds, or noisy places), I ended up having a panic attack because I was so worried about saying or doing the wrong thing, and I think she and I, through separate conversations with Woody, have determined that going forward, we'll only be in the same place if neither of us is on a date with Woody, or if the one who isn't on a date with him is able to bring her spouse or another date.

I don't enjoy being around his other partners, or even the fact that he has them, because I have some negative experiences in the past, in non-poly situations, with women who thought I was out to steal their man, or who didn't want me talking to a guy they were interested in or whatever, and I'm not keen on repeating the bullshit. I lost a couple of really good friends, one very recently, because their girlfriends went ballistic about them talking to me. Even though Woody isn't those guys, and Highlight and Stella aren't those women, it's hard to trust that it won't end up that way again. That's why I prefer not having metamours at all. It's kind of sad, because I think under other circumstances Stella and Highlight are both the type of women I could be friends with, but I'm not willing to let down my guard with either of them. (Which is completely my problem, not theirs, but I don't think either of them actually wants to be my friend under the circumstances either.)

When Hubby and I went out to dinner with my ex-boyfriend, we met at a restaurant because it was a neutral setting. We were shown to a booth, and I wasn't sure where I should sit; Hubby solved the problem by saying "The two of you together don't take up much more room than I do by myself, so why don't you sit together?" The two other times they were in the same place, I stayed between them and tried to interact with each of them equally, including not showing physical affection to either of them other than a hug. My boyfriend was adamant that people *not* know he was involved with a married woman, and Hubby and I are not completely open about me being poly, so I behaved toward my boyfriend as if he were just a good friend of the family (which wasn't untrue, just not the *whole* truth. One of those occasions was an event for Alt, and the other was an event for Country; both times, my boyfriend was present at the offspring's request.)

When Hubby and Woody met, it was at Woody's for a movie night. I was with Hubby; it was supposed to be Highlight's night with Woody, but she ended up not being able to make it. Hubby was uncomfortable, and when we arrived he kind of shoved me at Woody and said, "Hug already." Which made Woody and me feel awkward, especially since Woody was stirring pasta at the time. The second time Hubby went with me to movie night, it was my night with Woody and I tried to talk Hubby out of going, but he wanted to socialize. I sat between them; Hubby had his arm around me and I held hands with Woody. Hubby and I kissed goodbye when he left. But he told me afterward that he felt very uncomfortable because he didn't know how much affection or attention he should pay to me when it was Woody's night. (And because he developed an insta-crush on one of the women who was there.)

So I guess the big thing is.. Communicate. Don't only communicate with your wife about what you want for yourselves. Communicate with other partners about what *they* want as well. If you aren't willing to meet metamours, say so up front, don't wait until you're asked about it. If you decide in the future that you *are* willing to meet a metamour, the shared partner needs to communicate with each of their partners about how it should look in order to make everyone as comfortable as possible. The shared partner probably needs to also talk to each partner about how to handle an accidental meeting-up, like a bar or poly group. There needs to be an agreement about how much physical affection is acceptable in public, particularly if you didn't plan to see the other person. Personally, if, say, Hubby and I ran into Woody while we were out and about, I would greet Woody the way I greet any close friend: A "it's so good to see you!" and maybe a hug. We (all three of us) are not a hundred percent open about being poly, so it's best to be somewhat discreet, but a hug usually isn't seen as a big deal by anyone.
 
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When I have socialized with more than one of my partners at a time, we just act like close friends. Hugs, quick pecks on the cheek, sitting with an arm around someone's shoulders. I am a physically affectionate person in general, and so are most of my friends. In public settings, I usually display the same level of intimacy and affection to my close friends as I do to my husband. So even someone who had no idea I was poly would see that as normal behavior.

I don't do the full blown drunken PDA thing with either partner in the other's presence. (Well, maybe if it was just the 3 of us and we had previously discussed that it would be hot and sexy but... That's different ;) )

I also don't view it as a "date night" with either guy if I'm out with both. It's just group time. Neither of them gets preferential treatment or some kind of "you are my date tonight" status. We're just individuals spending time together.

(KC43, when you describe the day to day reality of Woody's kitchen table poly, I start to see how stressful and annoying it could be. Keeping track of whose night it is, or whether someone in the group is having date night with their husband or boyfriend... I get a stress headache just reading about it. )
 
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Claire, the other issue is that other than my regular Tuesday nights with Woody, there's no schedule... He tries to have one scheduled visit a week with Stella, but that isn't always possible, so sometimes they have to rearrange things, which is why she was present at a Friday movie night. And Highlight's schedule precludes making plans much in advance at all, let alone a regularly scheduled night out, so with her it's usually her and Woody agreeing to get together, and then Woody letting me know it's happening if it impacts me at all. Even then, as I said, there was one movie night when Highlight was supposed to be with him, which was why I brought Hubby with me, and then Highlight ended up not making it after all.

Usually it *isn't* grouping, fortunately. Tuesday nights are mine, end of story, and Woody has promised me that neither Highlight nor Stella will ever be there, even with their spouses or another date, while I've promised him Hubby will never be there. The rest of the time, it's a matter of asking Woody "Hey, are you free such-and-such a night?" If he is, then it's "Cool, can I have that night with you" and if he isn't, then it's "Cool, have fun with her."

The two nights when Highlight and I were both present, it was a group karaoke/dinner/allegedly-bowling-and-billiards night that Woody set up as sort of a munch deal for people in our area who belong to certain groups on FetLife. The first time, it just happened that no one else showed up other than Highlight, Lips, Woody, and me. The second time, others were present, including my friend from here and Doll, who I consider a good friend at this point, but that didn't make it any less uncomfortable for me.

The only thing I have to keep track of is when *I* am seeing Woody. *He* is responsible for keeping track of when he sees each of us, and if it's a case like karaoke where more than one of us might be present, *he* is responsible for letting the others know that it's whoever's date night. From my side, Hubby, Woody, and I have established that Hubby is always welcome at movie night, regardless of which of them I'm with that night. If it isn't my night and one of Woody's other partners is there, I interact primarily with Hubby; if neither of the others is there, I try to interact equally with both guys. (Hubby doesn't have other partners, so it's entirely irrelevant from his side.)

But yeah, it does get stressful and confusing, especially if I'm looking forward to something like karaoke and then find out, after I've already planned to go, that it's someone else's night with Woody, so I either have to find another date or stay home. (Or suffer through being very uncomfortable and having anxiety attacks...)

Then there are things like this coming weekend's Solstice party, which Woody is hosting and to which he's invited all three of us and our respective spouses. None of us are with Woody that day or night, since some of the attendees were friends of his late wife and aren't aware of the polyamory thing, or are aware of it but assumed all along that Woody was cheating on his wife and that she was unhappy, and all three of us have been asked to act like we're just friends of his. I don't know what the dynamic will be like in that case, but I do know that with the sheer number of people who'll be there, and the fact that Hubby, the offspring, and I are going early so it won't be as crowded, I'll probably be able to pretty much avoid my metamours and their spouses.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
(KC43, when you describe the day to day reality of Woody's kitchen table poly, I start to see how stressful and annoying it could be. Keeping track of whose night it is, or whether someone in the group is having date night with their husband or boyfriend... I get a stress headache just reading about it. )
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Your poly is not my poly, they say. Or in this instance Woody's kitchen table poly is not my kitchen table poly.

I live with two of my partners and mostly see Jeremy in our home. There are no designated date nights with my live-in partners, and with Jeremy - well, if he is around, I prefer spending some alone time with him. But, if the other guys are around, then it is group time and no-one's date time.

I'd also get a headache and most probably be very frustrated if I had to think about someone as "my date" when my other partners are around. When I have specific dates with my guys, we go somewhere else (a hotel, Jeremy's home, etc). Other than that - day to day life provides enough of bonding time with each of them. And when it does not, then we stop, think, discuss and arrange things differently so that life runs smoothly again.
 
To be fair to Woody, I don't think *he* sees it as "It's Highlight's date night, so I can't pay attention to KC" or whatever. On all three occasions when I've been present and so has another of his partners, he's tried not to treat his date-partner differently from the non-date-partner. The "it's her date night" bit is more about who's going home with him, or staying at his home with him in the case of movie night. But he does still designate it a date night for whoever it is.
 
I met my metamour long before he and I became metamours, so we were already friends (when we became the legs of the MFM V with his wife). The three of us live together so my metamour and I are often in the same room. Don't know if this matters, but we don't do PDA's when the three of us are together.

If any of us three started dating someone new, and it got serious, the new person would definitely be asked to meet all three of us. This could be done at a restaurant or a coffee shop. But there would be many more (four-person) meetings if the new relationship continued to progress.
 
Personally, I like to keep my relationships separate and I haven't dated too many partnered men. The only metamour I was in contact with was the wife of a guy I was seeing in a sort of long-distance relationship, and that was only via emails. I've never met any metamours face-to-face. I suppose that, if a metamour insisted that they needed to meet me in person, I'd probably want it to just be a coffee meet-up which would make it shorter than having dinner or going to some event together. I don't think I'd even bother having cocktails, even though that is something I enjoy doing, because I wouldn't want to get tipsy and let the meeting go on too long. Just a quick meet-and-greet is all I'd go for, but I probably would only do it if my metamour was their spouse or longterm partner - I wouldn't want to meet casual lovers or FWBs.

And I def would not want to socialize or double-date or that kind of nonsense!

As for any of my lovers wanting to meet their metamour(s), ie., another lover of mine, I'd probably not do it. I do solo poly and none of my lovers are partners, so what would be the point of introducing any of them to another? Doesn't seem logical to me, especially since I value my privacy.
 
It has never happened to me but I would feel like crap if one of my partners didn't give me a hug and a kiss if we ran into each other. I would think they were ashamed of me or something. What is the big deal? Everybody should know about everybody else.
 
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