Miserable, Doing it wrong. No idea what to do next

Using time wisely.

Hey Remnant,

You're just about the most famous guy on this forum right now. Hope you're taking care of essentials like sleep, food and the like. Reading polyamory.com may seem essential but I guarantee you that your life will be similar even if you never hear from us again.

Your time is precious. I'm glad you say you've found some aspects of this forum useful. The amount of time you've spent here is phenomenal and I hope it's been worth your time. I hope you and your wife are also getting enough time to work things out. One suggestion I have on time management would be to ignore us when you find us unhelpful. In the last day, I've seen you reply, quote and defend yourself seemingly constantly. That takes up tonnes of time. You came here for advice. Sure, read what we write, but I wouldn't waste time replying to attacks on your character or baseless accusations. That is wasted time. You owe your precious time to yourself and to your wife.

I posted about HALTT on post 77 of this thread. After reading pages of attacks and defending an explaining more about your situation, I still get the feeling that you're caught up in a war with this forum. In that sense, we're doing you a disservice. I feel your time would be better spent on empathy with your wife, reading up other resources (maybe the book "opening up" by Tristan taornimo on how to negotiate an open marriage), reading other stories written by those who have tried something similar to you from your wife's perspective (for empathy) or self awareness resources. I'm not sure what you would find most useful but I find myself wondering if the time you spend typing and arguing here could be better spent on more useful things.

Please always bear in mind that what you're doing is not polyamory.

Good luck Remnant. I'll check back tomorrow.
 
Hey Remnant,

You're just about the most famous guy on this forum right now. Hope you're taking care of essentials like sleep, food and the like. Reading polyamory.com may seem essential but I guarantee you that your life will be similar even if you never hear from us again.

Your time is precious. I'm glad you say you've found some aspects of this forum useful. The amount of time you've spent here is phenomenal and I hope it's been worth your time. I hope you and your wife are also getting enough time to work things out. One suggestion I have on time management would be to ignore us when you find us unhelpful. In the last day, I've seen you reply, quote and defend yourself seemingly constantly. That takes up tonnes of time. You came here for advice. Sure, read what we write, but I wouldn't waste time replying to attacks on your character or baseless accusations. That is wasted time. You owe your precious time to yourself and to your wife.

I posted about HALTT on post 77 of this thread. After reading pages of attacks and defending an explaining more about your situation, I still get the feeling that you're caught up in a war with this forum. In that sense, we're doing you a disservice. I feel your time would be better spent on empathy with your wife, reading up other resources (maybe the book "opening up" by Tristan taornimo on how to negotiate an open marriage), reading other stories written by those who have tried something similar to you from your wife's perspective (for empathy) or self awareness resources. I'm not sure what you would find most useful but I find myself wondering if the time you spend typing and arguing here could be better spent on more useful things.

Please always bear in mind that what you're doing is not polyamory.

Good luck Remnant. I'll check back tomorrow.

Thanks Shaya,

I...... don't FEEL like I'm caught in a war here, and I am definitely feeling that this is helpful for me. Generally I'm trying NOT to "waste time replying to attacks on your character or baseless accusations", but yeah, there was a specific post where I was just "y'know what, I'm in the mood to scream at someone, so THERE is a healthier place to do it"

Today is an okay day. The last 3 or 4 have not been, I really haven't been taking care of the essentials, I've been drowning in work. I'm now...... floating, just.
 
Remnant, you asked for suggestions on what to do so that your wife doesn't feel trapped in your marriage because of financial dependence, in a way that wouldn't feel like you were setting her up so that you can leave (i.e. your reference to her feelings regarding schooling). If you can financially and don't already, I'd suggest setting up a savings account for each of you and putting money into the savings accounts every month. That money belongs to each individual and they can do whatever they want with it, no questions asked. My husband and I have had our own spending money for years, longer than we've been poly. When we opened our marriage, I felt less jealous of the money he was spending on his girlfriend, because it was his spending money and not coming from our family budget. I would have been angry if we only had family money and he was spending it on trips with her or on taking her out to dinner. I have mostly saved my spending money the last few years and I can tell you that having a fairly large amount of money in the bank that is mine goes a long way towards making it so I don't feel financially trapped in my marriage (my husband makes about 2 1/2 times the amount I do). I think making it so it's something that you both have can go a long way towards it not feeling like you're only doing it so you can eventually leave. Just an idea for one way to remove some of the alligators, to use Emm's analogy.

This is an absolutely brilliant idea. (somewhat logistically difficult, but dealable with), and something that will definitely happen. Unfortunately what I really need is to go back in time and start doing it about 5 years ago :/
Historically we've tried a variety of different ways to deal with money, none of them terribly effective. We never really done the "hers and mine" though. It's always been "ours".
 
You are sensitive to feeling like the bad guy (are you an Aries?) and so you love, love, love the validation that you are not bad or wrong in all this, and that hey...others can bear some of the guilt, too.
Not Aries no :/
I...... actually feel uncomfortable with the "validation" and definitely the feeling that the guilt can be spread around. It's one of the few areas GF and I disagree vehemently on, and it frustrates her.... significantly.


1. Reassure the heck out of her. Yes, you have these needs now. No, that does not mean that you have in any way stopped loving her. You're very sorry that you have hit her with this, in this way, and for the hardship it's creating in the life she thought was safe and stable. You will help and support her in any way that is reasonable as you transition to either a new marriage of a different shape, or a divorce. You WILL NOT just cast her out to sink or swim.

And you keep reassuring her, until she damn well believes it. If that takes weeks, you do that. But you stand your ground on the point that change is in the air and while you want to help and support her in coming to terms with it however she needs to...you won't live in denial of it. It's real and it's happening.

2. You help her come up with some plans. A "Plan A" and a "Plan B" and a "Plan C." You start building some roadmaps of what is possible and what is not.

3. You follow through. If you make a commitment to her in good faith, you honor it. You no longer make promises to her that you aren't likely to keep.

1) definitely doing. continuously.
2) Tried, failed, need to try again. Planning to allow the new compromise a little while to settle before attempting anything that could even remotely be read as "what are you doing if this doesn't work". I feel very strongly that we need at least a little stability.
3) I have tried very hard to do this, and it's one of the reasons I rejected Shaya's advice. Although I'm sure telling my wife that she is more important to me and I can focus on our marriage to exclusion of all else for as long as it takes, would help in the very short term......... it would fail very catastrophically, fairly quickly. I'm still having minor issues here around promising to try (example separation), and then being told I didn't try hard enough or long enough.

What she wants, whether it is 20 years of no contact with GF, or the rights to micromanage rules around your poly relationships in the future, is unreasonable. Let's call that her starting point in the negotiation. You have demanded $1,000 for the Thing and she's come back with the ridiculous offer of $5.

Now the work of negotiation begins.

I hope that you can make a deal.

I "like" that analogy and therefore instinctively distrust it. The main problem I see there is that it's not a fair negotiation. It's very very difficult (if not impossible) to fairly negotiate, compromise and reach a solution when in a relationship with a significant power imbalance. My wife is financially, emotionally, and.... "socially"... "societally".... "something"? dependent on me. I have too much power/privilege and no way to relinquish it.
 
This is an absolutely brilliant idea. (somewhat logistically difficult, but dealable with), and something that will definitely happen. Unfortunately what I really need is to go back in time and start doing it about 5 years ago :/
Historically we've tried a variety of different ways to deal with money, none of them terribly effective. We never really done the "hers and mine" though. It's always been "ours".
The good majority of our money is still pooled together but it does help to have some that is mine and some that is his. Before we started having individual spending money, we just had a lump sum of family spending money which usually ended up being spent by my husband, because he had more hobbies than I did. We changed to individual spending money when I was still a stay at home mom and it was incredibly helpful for me to have money that was mine to do whatever I wanted to with it, without having to check in with my husband to see if he'd spent part of the pooled spending money. It gave me a sense of independence even though he was the one making the money (it made it so I didn't feel like I needed to ask permission to spend money, which made me feel like less of an adult).

Unfortunately, you can't go back in time but you can start now so you don't have the same regret for not starting earlier 5 years from now.
 
... yes, obviously sex is a large part of that. but it's not the largest. Closeness, affection, reading to each other, curled up watching random TV, long walks, Watching her cook, moving around each other in a kitchen while she despairs of taste buds, and I point out just frying it all would've been easier, and "hey salt's flavouring right?", arguing about fictional characters, whether Sam or Dean is hotter, and whether Dean with Sam's hair would be a suitable compromise. So. Much.
Does your wife have any of this fun stuff to look forward to, or does she just get the daily grind?

I feel that that the current price (limited contact with GF and 90% of time allocated to wife) is an acceptable one to pay to determine whether my desired outcome is feasible.
How much of that 90% will be spent enjoying her company? How much of it will be spent grocery shopping, cleaning the house, paying bills, dealing with a sick cat, picking the kids up, etc? Are you counting time you're asleep or working in that 90%?
 
Does your wife have any of this fun stuff to look forward to, or does she just get the daily grind?
Some definitely, some not so much. I have always been very affectionate, I enjoy touch, I'm pretty much incapable of walking past my wife without a caress. To the point that it has in the past created problems. 4 small children needing constant attention would mean that my physical closeness was just too much, and resulted it (quite reasonably) in irritation. which then flowed into distance resulting in more irritation etc. A historic issue which has been resolved.
But yes, in general she does have the fun stuff as well. We have very different interests in a lot of areas, so there is less of the "arguing about fictional characters, whether Sam or Dean is hotter, and whether Dean with Sam's hair would be a suitable compromise"

How much of that 90% will be spent enjoying her company? How much of it will be spent grocery shopping, cleaning the house, paying bills, dealing with a sick cat, picking the kids up, etc? Are you counting time you're asleep or working in that 90%?
Fair comment, but............... some definitely will, and.... a lot of those things are "together" things, so even if they are not exactly FUN, they are still done in company.
I'd...... love the time and opportunity to do..... most of that with my GF, we've NEVER been grocery shopping, or cared for a sick child or animal, or cleaned around each other. Never SLEPT, I've never been working and had her bring me a cuppa and kiss my head, I've never glanced over at 3am in the middle of a particularly difficult coding issue and seen her lying in bed, drooling delicately.

So..... yes, in a way I AM counting those times, they may not be extreme passion, or incredible fun. but they are the moments that strengthen a relationship.
 
I'm no expert on NRE Remnant. I've only had that emotion reciprocated once. But I think feeling that finding grocery shopping together exciting or looking forward to caring for a sick child together is purely NRE. If that stuff constitutes exciting relationship building stuff, then our 10-year marriages would be made of steel!

Relationship building is dates and movies and romantic dinners and all the stuff we rarely do. ;) Given how not poly I am, I don't think I'm really entitled to comment strongly on this, but I suspect the date stuff is thought to foster romance whilst the daily grind may wear it down sometimes. I think Emm was trying to point out that chores shouldn't count. Emm is of course free to correct me if I got it wrong. :)
 
I'm no expert on NRE Remnant. I've only had that emotion reciprocated once. But I think feeling that finding grocery shopping together exciting or looking forward to caring for a sick child together is purely NRE. If that stuff constitutes exciting relationship building stuff, then our 10-year marriages would be made of steel!
It's not pure NRE as 'exciting' is not the pure word ... some people can just appreciate this stuff, it does build the relationship, and it is part of what is missing in mostly sexual relationships. If the only thing you're doing together is romance, you kind of start to miss the mundane stuff :) It is/was one of the recurring topics of ours.

However the reminder is fair: If gf gets an uninterrupted evening date to 'build a relationship', giving the wife also an uninterrupted (by kids, chores, and after all processing) evening date would also seem like putting in an effort into the relationship. Relationships do wither without free time.
 
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Remnant, during your time with your wife, are you able to be present in the moment? Spending all your time with her doesn't really count if all you are doing is counting down the days and hours to the next time you can be with your GF.

It's like during one of my attempts to quit smoking. At one point, I was smoking only three cigarettes per day. My whole day, I was counting the time to the next cigarette. I wasn't enjoying or really participating in what I was doing AT THAT MOMENT. I eventually just quit and decided no more.

Your wife will be able to know if you are just counting down the time to the next Thursday morning, you know that, right?
 
Do you actually have 4 children? I thought you said 3 earlier?

I understand why your wife got so touched out by having 3 or 4 kids in a short period of time. This happened to me as well, having 3 kids in 5 years. It impacted our sex life, we had no time for a conversation, rarely cuddled since a kid would always wedge herself in between us. I was too exhausted for sex very often, being a full time stay at home, homeschooling mother.

My ex h had/has low self esteem, and even thought we agreed to have kids, even though we scrimped and saved so I could stay home and raise the kids and homeschool them, he resented the time and care the kids demanded. He was like my 4th kid, not an adult.

He also never did housework. I also resented when I found out years after the fact, that he'd often go out for Thai food and mai tais at lunch with his coworkers. He never told me. I'd be home making pbj's for me and the kids, trying to be frugal... and he never even brought me home a pad thai takeout.

You say your wife has family nearby who can help with childcare? We didn't even have that. Our parents and siblings were hundreds of miles away. We didn't like to leave our kids with teen babysitters when they were young. We tried it and had some bad experiences.

So, we toughed it out. When our youngest was 5, we started being able to use a teen sitter in the evenings, and our oldest was responsible enough to leave her in charge of the 2 younger ones for an hour or two. We were able to start leaving the kids with family (after making the trip) so my ex and I could have a week's vacation alone once a year.

Our sex life improved. But we still had underlying problems: My inherent polyamory hard wiring led me to getting crushes on people. His low self esteem led him to being jealous of everyone I interacted with, even my platonic female friends, even my sister. Our spiritual interests started to diverge. We started being more interested in different movies, different kinds of books. We just grew apart.

But despite it all, we carried on. I didn't act on any of my crushes. I couldn't control my emotions, but I controlled my actions. My sex life with my ex got really great after our years of drought when the kids were small. Even though our love was decreasing, our lust increased.

We even tried polyamory when our kids were approximately 10, 13 and 15. It was a disaster. My ex fell head over heels in love with a woman. She was supposed to be our unicorn but she wasn't sexually attracted to me. They were both inherently monogamous. When he fell for her, he fell out of love with me. I was still too invested in the kids to want to date anyone on my own. (My ex had much more energy since he just had a desk job, whereas mine with 3 active kids on top of me all day, was much more physically demanding. I just had too much to do, round the clock.)

So. Anyway. I coulda/shoulda broken up with him then. We did a ton of counseling. A year of couples therapy, a year of individual therapy for him, 3 years of individual therapy for me. My ex hit a wall with his self esteem issues. His therapist fired him because he wouldn't or couldn't dig any deeper into his issues. He carried on an emotional affair with his gf all along, phone calls, email, occasional platonic meetings, even though I'd vetoed their hot and heavy, sexual, romantic relationship.

I'd really resented him dating his gf. Going away to her city, just the 2 of them, for a long weekend, wining and dining and long walks and holding hands and exploring bookstores, reading poetry out loud to each other, candlelight and incense, essential oil foot soaks and massages, sightseeing, uninterrupted conversations and sex. While I was home with the kids, and their friends, and their noise and music and mess and activities, and tons of pets to care for too, and a garden to tend, and large meals to cook, laundry, taking out the trash, cleaning up clutter, vacuuming, washing floors, not to mention the kids' schoolwork, helping with their social issues, etc etc.

So I figured out in therapy and from talks with friends that he and I needed to date more, as I said above. It wasn't enough. We soldiered on for 10 years after he fell in love with his gf, but we finally split. I got a great settlement/alimony since I'd been a stay at home mother for 20 years and by then our youngest child was still not independent. I'd also lost out on career advancement since I had been a SAHM.

So anyway, we split. His gf ran to him. They are mono, still together. I found a poly partner almost immediately and she and I are still together 8 years later, and I've had bfs too.

So, that's my personal experience. I've been in your wife's shoes... despite my poly tendencies, I had to deal with my ex actually finding a gf, being head over heels while I was mired in childcare, and financially dependent on him... he was so in NRE, that after dating her only a couple months, he wanted to move her in with us to be a co-wife! She'd been single her whole life, I didnt even approve of how she was raising her dog, and he thought he'd like her to help raise our kids?
 
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It's very very difficult (if not impossible) to fairly negotiate, compromise and reach a solution when in a relationship with a significant power imbalance. My wife is financially, emotionally, and.... "socially"... "societally".... "something"? dependent on me. I have too much power/privilege and no way to relinquish it.

This bothers me because isolation is a common tool used to control in abusive situations. But, that's my bias. I realize it's also very common for stay at home mothers to become socially isolated. I think if you want to remove alligators, this is another area that could be worked on. And, it's potentially an easy and inexpensive fix. A great way to both increase her social circle and help move her towards some financial freedom would be to take classes at the local university. But, if that would make her think you're preparing to oust her, there are other good options. She could join a meetup, take an exercise class, take a cooking, art, or music class, join a walking group, or join a book club. None of those are time intensive and do not have to be expensive...some are even free...they can be done while you're home alone with the children.

I sense hesitation on your part around dating your wife. Like others have said, family time, chore time, etc is not the same as dating. Again, this doesn't have to be expensive or elaborate. It could be as simple as taking a walk alone together; a candle light dinner at home, after the kids are in bed; visiting a local coffee shop together; a picnic in the park; reading a book out loud to each other when the kids are sleeping. I do think the occasional, away from home/kids date is essential for keeping romance alive, but I realize that doing that weekly may be difficult with four kids at home.
 
This bothers me because isolation is a common tool used to control in abusive situations. But, that's my bias. I realize it's also very common for stay at home mothers to become socially isolated. I think if you want to remove alligators, this is another area that could be worked on. And, it's potentially an easy and inexpensive fix. A great way to both increase her social circle and help move her towards some financial freedom would be to take classes at the local university. But, if that would make her think you're preparing to oust her, there are other good options. She could join a meetup, take an exercise class, take a cooking, art, or music class, join a walking group, or join a book club. None of those are time intensive and do not have to be expensive...some are even free...they can be done while you're home alone with the children.

I sense hesitation on your part around dating your wife. Like others have said, family time, chore time, etc is not the same as dating. Again, this doesn't have to be expensive or elaborate. It could be as simple as taking a walk alone together; a candle light dinner at home, after the kids are in bed; visiting a local coffee shop together; a picnic in the park; reading a book out loud to each other when the kids are sleeping. I do think the occasional, away from home/kids date is essential for keeping romance alive, but I realize that doing that weekly may be difficult with four kids at home.

This bothers me A LOT (not that you've said it, but the situation). I feel my wife is isolated yes, and I don't know what to do about it. I'm WELL aware it's common control tool, and I've felt it before as well, but I don't know HOW to..... unisolate? someone. Particularly without their....... assistance or participation.
We have a family living relatively close that are family friends and aware of the general situation, it is with them I was staying. The Wife has been effectively DRAGGING my wife out of the house for.... coffee, shopping, aqua-zumba, anything and everything she can think of. My wife is resistant.

Another of my wife's friends has been TRYING to get my wife to come out for coffee for over a week, so far without success.

As well as the "feeling ousted", my wife doesn't...... like people, or want to do these things. Or at least she has explicitly stated that she doesn't like people, and doesn't want to do these things. She enjoys walking. With me. A group of mutual friends do board gaming evenings. She'll go.... if I am.

I have no idea how to "encourage" her to do these things when she professes to be happier curled up with a tablet or watching netflix.

My work is very flexible. There's a lot to do, but very little of it has be done at specific times of the day, so I'm ALWAYS happy to deal with the children while my wife does........ something, but it never seems to happen.


Hesitation about dating wife: No :) not at all, we have and are. (depending on how loosely you want to define that). My wife doesn't like scheduling or pre-arranging "time" (because that's artificial), but we have been going alone for coffee and/or a meal, at least twice a week. We usually walk down to the local coffee shop to do so (weather permitting), so it's a solid 3ish hour "date" where there is no GF contact (phone is on because of work, and it has occasionally interrupted). We will also spend an average of an hour a night curled up watching..... something. Either random you-tube comedy, or we've started "buffy the vampire slayer" again, and are on season 2 now. So there is definitely "us" time but because it's NOT scheduled or pre-arranged it's harder to quantify.

My hesitation is mainly because I "object" to the concept that if I've spent 4 hours this week "dating" my wife, and 4 hours "seeing my girlfriend in public non sexually" That...... has been equated to "spending equal time" with each of them. which is simply not accurate.
 
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Do you actually have 4 children? I thought you said 3 earlier?
3 at home, 1 at boarding school

Your situation sounds horrific, and I'm sorry you've experienced that. However I have to say it doesn't sound similar to my wife's. Obviously I'm not her, and I'd imagine we have somewhat different perspectives on exactly what's happening, but there are definitely important differences.

I understand why your wife got so touched out by having 3 or 4 kids in a short period of time. This happened to me as well, having 3 kids in 5 years. It impacted our sex life, we had no time for a conversation, rarely cuddled since a kid would always wedge herself in between us. I was too exhausted for sex very often, being a full time stay at home, homeschooling mother.
This, very definitely this, this is definitely how things have been (other than the homeschooling). Its an issue we've had. And resolved. (before GF). The man problem we had is that I saw (incorrectly) her exhaustion and being "touched out" as rejection and an indication her feelings had changed. And chose to "not push myself on her", which then felt TO HER like rejection and that MY feelings had changed. vicious cycle

My ex h had/has low self esteem, and even thought we agreed to have kids, even though we scrimped and saved so I could stay home and raise the kids and homeschool them, he resented the time and care the kids demanded. He was like my 4th kid, not an adult.

He also never did housework. I also resented when I found out years after the fact, that he'd often go out for Thai food and mai tais at lunch with his coworkers. He never told me. I'd be home making pbj's for me and the kids, trying to be frugal... and he never even brought me home a pad thai takeout.
This is however vastly different. vastly. Pretty confident my wife does substantially more housework than I do, but I definitely do SOME. Main meals are fairly evenly split, my wife handles breakfast and lunch every weekday, but I tend to on the weekends (not ALL the time, but tend to).

You say your wife has family nearby who can help with childcare? We didn't even have that. Our parents and siblings were hundreds of miles away. We didn't like to leave our kids with teen babysitters when they were young. We tried it and had some bad experiences.
Unfortunately not quite accurate :/ My wife has family nearby. They're not willing to take 3 active children. They will take 1, on average once or twice a week. Which although nice....... doesn't actually make a considerable difference. I mentioned them earlier as places my WIFE could go either if the marriage dissolved or if she just needed some space.

I'd really resented him dating his gf. Going away to her city, just the 2 of them, for a long weekend, wining and dining and long walks and holding hands and exploring bookstores, reading poetry out loud to each other, candlelight and incense, essential oil foot soaks and massages, sightseeing, uninterrupted conversations and sex. While I was home with the kids, and their friends, and their noise and music and mess and activities, and tons of pets to care for too, and a garden to tend, and large meals to cook, laundry, taking out the trash, cleaning up clutter, vacuuming, washing floors, not to mention the kids' schoolwork, helping with their social issues, etc etc.

This. oh my god this. How could ANYONE not resent that. I've never had that (any of it) with GF.

So, that's my personal experience. I've been in your wife's shoes... despite my poly tendencies, I had to deal with my ex actually finding a gf, being head over heels while I was mired in childcare, and financially dependent on him... he was so in NRE, that after dating her only a couple months, he wanted to move her in with us to be a co-wife! She'd been single her whole life, I didnt even approve of how she was raising her dog, and he thought he'd like her to help raise our kids?
yeah........ I sympathise. and empathise..... but those are not my wife's shoes.
 
Boy, I try to get back into keeping up with the board, and I stumble upon this thread... Zoinks.

How much of that 90% will be spent enjoying her company? How much of it will be spent grocery shopping, cleaning the house, paying bills, dealing with a sick cat, picking the kids up, etc? Are you counting time you're asleep or working in that 90%?
Some definitely, some not so much. I have always been very affectionate, I enjoy touch, I'm pretty much incapable of walking past my wife without a caress. [...] Fair comment, but............... some definitely will, and.... a lot of those things are "together" things, so even if they are not exactly FUN, they are still done in company.
I'd...... love the time and opportunity to do..... most of that with my GF, we've NEVER been grocery shopping, or cared for a sick child or animal, or cleaned around each other. Never SLEPT, I've never been working and had her bring me a cuppa and kiss my head, I've never glanced over at 3am in the middle of a particularly difficult coding issue and seen her lying in bed, drooling delicately.

So..... yes, in a way I AM counting those times, they may not be extreme passion, or incredible fun. but they are the moments that strengthen a relationship.

It may benefit you to look up Franklin Veaux's (I think it's his) discussion of "Grapes and Cucumbers". My (very poor) synopsis: the cucumbers are the normal day-to-day activities, and the grapes are the "fun things" like dates, time without the kids or responsibility. Relationships need both, and people will crave the one they don't get much of.

FWIW, since I don't feel like going back ten pages to actually quote stuff, I think seeing a therapist is a fantastic move, but I'd caution you to not make the fortnightly "gripe session" the only time you two are alone together. Maybe make a date night weekly, so you can try to start spending more "good" alone time together. (EDIT: Ah, yeah... I guess I should have read the rest of the thread before saying this. Glad to see you're still getting out on your own. Might be time to actually get out and ask around to see who has a good babysitter recommendation if family won't take all 3 kids.)

If she feels trapped, *ask* her what would make her feel less trapped (at your gripe sessions) and see if you can work on *those* bits. Every little thing you do for her and her alone will be something that fills up her "he still cares for me" bucket, even if it's just a drop. She'll have to work on self-esteem issues if she has them, but let's not try to make a drowning person swim a mile.

Also, I know a week felt like forever, but a month of no contact with the GF may be a really good idea (I've read 40 days, actually). Yes, you're going to go crazy missing the person at first, but that's the point... after the first week or two (or three), those feelings of immediacy die down because they're not being fed. You start thinking with your head again, rather than with your heart (or, more likely, all the hormones swirling around right now). It makes for better decision-making in the long run. And there's no rush, right?
 
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As well as the "feeling ousted", my wife doesn't...... like people, or want to do these things. Or at least she has explicitly stated that she doesn't like people, and doesn't want to do these things.

That sounds like me. Someone who likes her own space. I think kids tend to increase the tendency. And definitely, when I'm upset, LAST thing I want is to go anywhere to meet anyone. Heck even when I'm not upset, getting me to go anywhere to meet anyone is mostly asking for me to cancel at last minute. It is just not me. Though I don't mind doing stuff with Spexy - though not clingy like your wife, but meeting people with him around is somehow not as terrible as meeting them on my own.

I don't know whether it helps in the situation with your wife, one way of socializing would be to invite someone she doesn't mind into the home space where she is comfortable. I find this less taxing for me than going anywhere to meet anyone.

See if the friend who wants to take her out for a coffee would perhaps try spending an afternoon with just non-demanding company. Your wife can talk if she wants, or friend can just chill or help with kids or whatever. Chances are, if her situation is anything like mine, she'll enjoy that - or at least tolerate it better than having to leave her comfort zone while not feeling good about herself.

Or on occasion, invite friends over for drinks and dinner at home and perhaps if situation allows, break into subgroups over some activity so she gets time with people without you listening.

Basically, she sounds like someone who would NOT exit comfort zone when stressed and pushing that is futile, but socializing can happen in her comfort zone if she seems okay with it. Initially, if she's clingy and wants to do things with you, you could both host another trusted couple for a while. Later, perhaps a friend could drop in when you weren't there. Possibly to help her through the Thursday thing...
 
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That sounds like me. Someone who likes her own space. I think kids tend to increase the tendency. And definitely, when I'm upset, LAST thing I want is to go anywhere to meet anyone. Heck even when I'm not upset, getting me to go anywhere to meet anyone is mostly asking for me to cancel at last minute. It is just not me. Though I don't mind doing stuff with Spexy - though not clingy like your wife, but meeting people with him around is somehow not as terrible as meeting them on my own.

I don't know whether it helps in the situation with your wife, one way of socializing would be to invite someone she doesn't mind into the home space where she is comfortable. I find this less taxing for me than going anywhere to meet anyone.

See if the friend who wants to take her out for a coffee would perhaps try spending an afternoon with just non-demanding company. Your wife can talk if she wants, or friend can just chill or help with kids or whatever. Chances are, if her situation is anything like mine, she'll enjoy that - or at least tolerate it better than having to leave her comfort zone while not feeling good about herself.

Or on occasion, invite friends over for drinks and dinner at home and perhaps if situation allows, break into subgroups over some activity so she gets time with people without you listening.

Basically, she sounds like someone who would NOT exit comfort zone when stressed and pushing that is futile, but socializing can happen in her comfort zone if she seems okay with it. Initially, if she's clingy and wants to do things with you, you could both host another trusted couple for a while. Later, perhaps a friend could drop in when you weren't there. Possibly to help her through the Thursday thing...

Funny thing is though, that sounds like what they were doing with the gf and her husband... and then it went awry when gf and Remnant got romantically involved! sigh...

It sounds like Remnant and his wife are growing apart, maybe? Like she is an introvert, and has that mono idea: "My husband is my everything." But Remnant has been feeling poly for a decade, and didn't tell her, and now here they are.
 
Another of my wife's friends has been TRYING to get my wife to come out for coffee for over a week, so far without success.

DRAGGING my wife out of the house for.... coffee, shopping, aqua-zumba, anything and everything she can think of. My wife is resistant.

When your wife is resistant to leaving the house and to see old friends of hers, Anamikanon suggested some fairly normal personality factors. I agree, but also wonder if her discomfort is being compounded by a sense of shame in her perceived failure of her monogamous marriage. To see you so collected and full of confidence contrasted with her crumbling and still having to pull herself together for the kids somehow. I can totally understand not wanting to see anyone in that state.

My recommendation for that runs along the same lines as Anamikanon's, which is to consider bringing someone into her comfort zone (bringing company into the house). In addition, addressing the shame issue by building her self confidence may be useful. Your desire to date someone else says more about you as a person and your needs than it does about her as a wife. She needs to make the difficult transition in thinking to realise that. I have a post here..... where I explained that concept for someone else. She might find the entire thread there helpful in understanding this. Reassure her of her quality points with words of affirmation.


She enjoys walking. With me. A group of mutual friends do board gaming evenings. She'll go.... if I am.

I have no idea how to "encourage" her to do these things when she professes to be happier curled up with a tablet or watching netflix.

There's an article, written somewhat humorously that describes this exact phenomenon. It's called polyamoryville, and the article contrasts it against the couch potato comfort your wife enjoys.

http://www.theferrett.com/ferrettworks/2015/06/polyamorys-not-your-vacation-villa/
 
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