Missing One from Group and feeling Strained

Scarlette

Scarlette

New member
Hello poly folks! Since I/my group are pretty insulated, as far as this whole poly thing goes, I am seeking advice and thoughts on something that has been troubling me lately.

My husband Michael and I have been involved with another husband and wife couple, Hanna and Isaac, since the middle of this year. Michael, being in the Marines, is currently stationed away, has been for the last year, and will be for the next 6 months or so. He finally met the other members of our group a couple months ago while on a visit.

Since Michael is gone, Hanna and I have been trying to make do with getting our needs met as much as possible from Isaac. Obviously that is putting quite a strain on our group. Since I am a stay-at-home mom with our young kids, I only get to see Isaac and spend the night with him one night a week, on Sundays, at the moment. The other weekend night and day are Hanna's.

I'm starting to feel as if my needs don't really matter as I am only "the girlfriend." I'm dealing with the fact that I only really have 24 hours of his time, but it's always spent at their house with Hanna around, since mine isn't available to stay at. We can't have sex without her possibly in the other room hearing. We can't even watch TV without her possibly coming in and chatting with us. I don't mind her around, she is my friend, but they don't have to worry about those same kinds of things, because it's not my house to just be around. If I suggest getting a hotel, she say she feels like we are just trying to avoid her.

I'm just feeling really frustrated that my time with him is also partially spent with her, but she can see him all week and half the weekend alone. I don't know how to resolve this.
 
Tricky. It is half her home, and well, you cannot actually ask her to leave for your sake. Does Isaac feel that this is a problem? If yes, has he asked her about it to at least see if she would be willing to get out of the house for awhile? Do they have children? Could they be the reason she stays at home? Have you ever talked to her directly and said that you and Isaac would like to be alone? Do you and he date outside of their home? If so, what is stopping you from having a date Sunday evening and spending the night in a hotel? Would she have a problem with that? I would venture a guess that she knows that you and he need quality time alone as a dyad.
 
I think you need to emphasise that you are in a romantic relationship, and quality couple time is recommended in all relationships. Ask her how she'd deal with not having any alone time with her husband. If I'm reading this right and she is dating your husband too, set a good precedent by facilitating their alone time when he is around.
 
Why do you say you and your husband are involved with another couple? It sounds like he only met them once. Maybe you all had four-way sex? Maybe you just partner swapped?

Be that as it may, sounds like you are involved with Isaac, and his wife Hanna is jealous and rather resentful you're around on the weekend taking up his time. She's not your gf? You don't have sex or dates with her, right? So, you've got a bf, Isaac. Hanna has maybe had sex with your husband when he was on leave. But he's gone now. Maybe she is wondering what is in all this for her.

I also wonder why you and Isaac don't go out for romance. A day at the beach, or hiking, picnicking in the woods? Is there some kind of weird rule that Isaac has to have his dates with you in his house with Hanna jealously lurking around?

Personally, I can have my bf Ginger over, and my live-in gf Pixi gives us plenty of space to have sex or cuddle. She doesn't resent Ginger in the least, so when she does show up to hang out with us, it's after he and I have had plenty of time to be sexually intimate, and chat one on one. Also, he and I go out on dates to cultural things we enjoy. Often we invite Pixi (since she and Ginger are friends), and sometimes she comes along, but usually she has other things to do, and just tells us to go have fun.

You definitely need to see why Hanna is feeling so resentful she'd make that remark, "You're trying to avoid me," when you suggest you and Isaac get a hotel room. That's an awfully harsh way of putting it. Why does she think you two never should get to be alone together? Where does her insecurity come from? Sounds like you three need a good sit-down heart-to-heart.
 
Yes, that is confusing to me, too, you calling it a 'group' situation, but your husband only met this couple after you got involved with them, and even then he's been gone the rest of the year, so far.

It doesn't seem like a group situation. It seems like you have a FWB with Isaac, and Hanna is jealous. It is not like she is getting her groove on for added distraction either. Perhaps this is not what she expected?

Either way, it seems a right old mess. I agree with Magdlyn-- you all need to do a proper sit down and talk about what you all want and expect from these relationships.
 
Expectations

For what it's worth, here are my two cents:

First, you really haven't given much background, so my advice may be totally off, but here's what I'm seeing. Your husband is away often and for long periods of time, so you both agree it's okay for you to get your needs met elsewhere. He's allowed to play with whoever it is you find, as well, when he's home. You found a couple. Your husband has met them once(?), maybe more often? But I'm guessing with him being in the military, that's unlikely.

I'm not faulting you, but you did have the ability to choose whoever you wanted, and you chose a couple. I don't know Hanna's situation, but she doesn't really owe you and him any alone time. Maybe her expectation was, "Oh, this other woman is lonely. I like her/am curious about exploring with a woman/whatever. Sure, she can spend time with us." She may see your requests for alone time as forced attempts to shove her out of the picture (even for just a night), and she may well resent that. Wouldn't you, in her place, especially if you didn't agree on you and him being alone beforehand? Also, it's not her fault you married a military man who's gone a lot. She may have no interest in finding another partner away besides him.

It looks like limited, shared time with her is all you're going to get with him. So, you're probably best off either finding a new couple, whose expectations better fit in with what you want, or sharing another partner (like you are now with Hanna), or finding a guy who can spend a significant amount of alone time with you, without expecting you to be his one and only.

I'm not saying it'll be easy, but it might help you be less lonely.
 
Thanks so much for all of the advice! I apologize for not being more clear about our set up and a few other details. Since I live it, I was trying not to bog things down with lots of details.

Hanna and I were friends at work when I met Isaac a few months later. Michael was away at that point. We have been poly for about 5 years. Hanna and Isaac weren't yet open (and don't have kids, for the record), but talking a lot about my views on the subject, they decided to try it out. Isaac and I started dating and getting serious. Hanna and I messed around a few times, but decided she didn't want to compete with Isaac and my budding relationship.

When I suggested to Michael that maybe he get to know the people I talk so much about, he started talking to Hanna over text. After a while, the idea of "grouping up" was brought up, as Hanna and Michael started talking about getting serious. They started a LTR while he was away, with the expectation of continuing it once he got home. When he came for a month-long visit, we all spent lots of time together and decided that the four of us wanted to try becoming a more integrated, blended family.

As far as this issue, after Isaac and I talked about it, he said he didn't know what to do, but understood what I was saying and we'd work on it. When he got home looking a bit low from the conversation, Hanna got the story and got a bit upset about some of the details that apparently Isaac didn't get and conveyed wrong to her. After a conversation where I made it clear I didn't want to push her out of her own house or take the time she gets with him, she started saying that she just needs to back off and do her thing, and if people need her, we know where to find her.

So she's just going to back out completely and not try to get time with Isaac. If he needs it, he can come get it. It's frustrating, because she is just going to withdraw and essentially become resentful. I keep suggesting a schedule, so we can at least know what to expect from the week, and I can plan a bit of time to get out of the house and be alone with him. She seems resistant to it, because it will take away from spontaneity. I am not sure how her solution of withdrawing is better then sacrificing spontaneity.
 
That last litle bit about schedules and spontaneity reminds me of Maca. He was really against schedules until he wanted to date someone and realized he couldn't find time. No amount of talking helped. He had to experience it himself.

I am definitely for scheduling at least one date per couple per week. Other times can be spontaneous. But that way no one ends up with zilch just because schedules get hectic.
 
Wow, and yikes.

So you knew Hanna first. Then you meet her man and tell them you're poly, get them both turned on, start getting sexual with both, then your faraway husband Michael gets involved, you all hang out for a month, then he leaves.

Now, meanwhile Hanna has of her own volition backed off to give you and Isaac space to develop your relationship. However, she is passive-aggressively watching you both like a hawk. Now she is refusing compromise and basically being a bitch.

I am sure you care a lot about both of them, but isn't this a hazard of dating poly newbies? They really don't get how it all works. Maybe you should back off from seeing either of them, no dates with Isaac, avoid Hanna at work as much as possible, for a week or two, and let them calm the f down, and do some talking of their own, and (hopefully) do some research into common poly issues like envy, jealousy, time/calendar sharing. Becoming poly can point up issues in a couples' relationship they been able to avoid looking at until a new person comes into the mix.
 
Since you obviously care about their relationship

and it's not like you are glad that Hanna got the wrong impression, I don't see why this situation would be a problem. Your attitude sounds respectful and caring, and Hanna obviously didn't want to feel like she is standing in the way of your relationship with her husband going smoothly, this is a just a minor obstacle

it is truly miscommunication, and so long as it is not an either of yous intentionally misunderstanding each other (which does seem to happen in many metamour's relationships) you just need to be able to approach her and clear it up.

If you approach it gentle and non-accusatory (which sometimes means approaching it as the misunderstanding was your fault -- even if that is not the case) I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't eventually be able to see how getting a hotel was avoiding her.

If she cannot she this, but genuinely wants things to work out, then she is likely not fully stating her desires of possibly wanting to be involved with you and her husband.

There needs to be a distinction drawn between the what is going on here, if she is sharing her husband to take care of your sexual needs while husband is deployed and you cannot explicitly state that, the tension is only going to grow if her idea is different and she has trouble stating it.

Unspoken "go with the flow" type dynamics are the product of years or decades of getting to know and fully understand your partners and who they are, otherwise for anyone other than Master Zen Buddhists is will chew away at your relationships rather than build up


If you are sure about Hanna and Isaac's character as being up to standards that you know fit your lifestyle, and you still can't seem to communicate well enough to understand one another, the sexual aspect of the relationship was introduced too soon

some personalities can get through it this, but things like finances trip them up, whatever ingredient to healthy polyamory you are or are not tolerant of being introduced a little too early doesn't matter. The person more tolerant of early introductions of sex isn't more "poly evolved" [sic] than the one more tolerant of early intro of finances

either one can destroy a polyship which would have been fine, and later unsinkable, had it not been for ignoring the specific ways to destroy any specific relationship.

everyone has the quirky needs, and many people have quirky self-destructs
 
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Scarlette said:
I'm just feeling really frustrated that my time with him is also partially spent with her, but she can see him all week and half the weekend alone. It's an issue I just don't know how to resolve.
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The resolution is to ask for what you want. What else would you think the resolution would be?

What prevents you, exactly, from saying to Isaac, "I am frustrated by the lack of privacy in our situation. I want alone time with you. Please arrange to make that happen, because I can't keep meeting in your bedroom with your wife waiting just outside the door." :confused:

Is she sticking around to maintain some sense of control over what he does? Doesn't she have friends she can hang with, grocery shopping to do, or something, while you and he get together?

If he doesn't make the effort to be alone with you, which is something so, so simple and adult, then it would seem disrespectful to me, and immature, and I would question the value of continuing the relationship.

I suggest talking to Isaac and not both of them, because this is about your relationship with him, and getting more alone time with him. I don't believe other people need to be managing relationships they are not in.
 
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I suggest talking to Isaac and not both of them, because this is about your relationship with him, and getting more alone time with him. I don't believe other people need to be managing relationships they are not in.
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I agree. I'm not into bypassing your partner, going to your metamour and telling them what to do. It's your partner's job to maintain their relationships. They need to be trusted to do so.
 
You have an advantage in that Hanna is already your friend. Wouldn't it be simplest to sit down with her one-on-one and talk about what you both want? It's not fair to expect someone in the middle to both perfectly understand your wishes (without knowing the right questions to ask) and then perfectly explain them to someone (without knowing the answers to the questions that person asks).

As for time distribution, don't forget that they are married and have a life together, a house and finances, all that jazz. I totally get that it sucks to be stuck at home with your husband overseas. Mine works out of town, so I have an inkling, but I can't even begin to imagine going months at a time without seeing him. But try to remember, that's not Hanna's fault. She shouldn't be expected to give up half her time with her own husband just because you're dating him and yours is overseas.

I don't understand what she means by she's going to back away and not try to get time with Isaac. To me, that sounds like a guilt trip. I mean, they live together. Of course they're going to have time together. Where is she going to go away to? Is she going to start living with her parents or something, and wait for Isaac to come rescue her?

It sounds like she's having trouble dealing with jealousy issues. It really does sound like she's trying, giving you guys space and time, but that she's struggling. She may be repressing feelings because she doesn't want to stand in your way, but that those feelings are brewing inside her and coming out toxic. Hence, the self-sacrificing guilt trips.

Finally, regarding alone time, I think you need to work that out somewhere other than her house. Frankly m'dear, it's not her problem. In her mind, she's already making a leap by sharing her husband with you and giving up time that used to be all theirs for you to see him. What about getting your sitter to take the kids to their house and having Isaac over? If that isn't possible, then find somewhere else to go together. In other words, if you want alone time with him, it's up to you to figure out how to do that, not up to her to leave her own house to give you that.
 
I agree that they should have their alone time elsewhere but when they tried, she said it feels like they are trying to avoid her. I.e., unless all quality time is spent under her supervision, she feels excluded.
 
You're all so amazing! Thank you for giving me much advice and things to consider. There where some very good points made that I hadn't thought of before. I do try my best to remember that it isn't Hanna's fault that Michael is away and she is awesome for being so open to working things out. I am going to keep trying to research poly time management as well for ideas. :D

I talked to both Hanna and Isaac a bit today about it. Hanna invited me over to chat. She said that she understands that having someone just down the hall able to pop up at any time can be frustrating. Not to mention if she had some "crazy bitch" (her words, not mine :p) around often while Isaac and she were first together, then she'd be getting upset, too. She also said that the whole group is off balance with Michael gone and the only solution she can think of is to not be "under foot" and disappear while I am with Isaac.

She plans to get a futon and sleep at work when I come over (we work together at a business she owns) so we can have some time alone. I told her it doesn't have to come to just kicking her out of her own house, I just want some time, which is why I was just suggesting nights at a hotel. I am clear it is an issue that Isaac and I need to figure out. I added that if I had even a rough schedule of when my time was then I could plan stuff with Isaac so it's less sitting around the house watching TV and more of us going and doing something together. She is sticking to getting set up to sleep at work. I figure Isaac and I can figure out a schedule amongst us two and see how it goes from there. All four of us don't like the idea of her just hiding out at work whenever I'm around, so I am hoping we can work something out.

With Isaac, I briefly talked to him on his work break about asking Hanna for time and he wasn't receptive of the idea. We both do much better over text rather then talking about things in person, and I ended up sending this very long message shortly after we talked.
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"I know you don't like the idea of talking to Hanna about plans for you and me. You would rather us figure it out and let you know because it is easier that way. Yet if Hanna and my relationship wasn't there, I would be asking you for time, and you would be making the time, or not. I wouldn't be asking her if you could come out and play. Same reason why your band asks you if you're free on whatever night to play, and not Hanna. Because it's your life, and if you want to do it, you figure out the way to make time. You do not tell them to talk to your wife.​
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I know the drama sucks. I know because I am the one asking for us time right now. I'm the one making the drama. Asking your wife if you can be with me (or asking my friend if my boyfriend is free). Did you ever have to talk to Michael about going out with me? I should be asking my boyfriend if my boyfriend is free and has time for me, right?​
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Please trust me when I tell you that I will do my best to not put you in a sticky situation. I will still do my best to make sure that Hanna is getting some time with you and not ask for too much time. Still, I don't know how you guys are, and I won't always know if you and she are getting any time. I assumed you guys had all last Saturday together, when apparently you didn't, and she assumed I had all of Sunday with you even though you dropped me off after the class. Only you know. If you want everyone to be happy by the end of the weekend, then perhaps that means having your part in it too will help reach that goal.​
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You're not doing anything wrong, my love. We are just learning how to work this all out. If the biggest problem amongst the four of us is that we love each other so much that we want to spend every moment with each other, then that is not too bad of a problem to have. In the end, I know we will work something out. I love you so very much, my sweet. ❤️"​

Hopefully we can work something out! Thank you all again for the awesome advice!
 
london said:
I agree that they should have their alone time elsewhere, but when they tried, she said it feels like they are trying to avoid her. I.e., unless all quality time is spent under her supervision, she feels excluded.
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Well, she is being excluded. Even little kids have to learn that they don't always get to come to the party. Grown-ups should already know this.

That's the blunt way of putting it. But the point is, time between Isaac and Scarlette isn't about Hannah. At all. It's about Isaac and Scarlette.

Unless... maybe it is about Hannah...

Scarlette: What are your feelings about her? You mentioned that you guys explored things a bit at first, but she said she didn't want to stand in your way. I'm just wondering if some of her reaction isn't in part that she also wants to be with you romantically, and maybe that's even why she's hovering when you're with Isaac. And why she's willing to put herself on the sidelines, sleeping at work, so you guys can be together. In other words, maybe none of this is about romantic time with Isaac, but rather with you. Just a thought. Feel free to tell me I'm out to lunch.
 
Scarlette said:
Since Michael is gone, Hanna and I have been trying to make do with getting our needs met as much as possible from Issac. ....

I'm starting to feel as if my needs don't really matter as only being "the girlfriend".
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What kind of 'needs' are you talking about? Sexual? Dinners out? Adult conversation? Romance? Fixing your toilet? Helping around the house or with young kids?

Why is your house not available? Where are your children when you're with Michael overnight or the other evening?
 
It sort of seems like Hanna is getting the short end of the stick here, like she went into this expecting time with Michael, but is ending up with less than what she had in the first place, like a bait-and-switch type of thing. Now she's sharing Isaac, but getting nothing in return.

I don't know any details. I'm just on the outside looking in.
 
Quads and triads are complicated beasts! Everyone needs to look inside themselves, feel and identify their feelings. I know from experience, one can get into that self-sacrifice mode when one's primary is with someone new, and step back to give them space, feel some compersion, but also some resentment and fear.

Maybe she'd rather sleep at work than have you two get a hotel, to save money? Hotels are expensive.

Calendar sharing is a must. There isn't much room for spontaneity when one has kids, and when one is poly with a primary, even more planning is necessary. It's just a fact of life.
 
WhatToDo said:
It sort of seems like Hanna is getting the short end of the stick here, like she went into this excepting time with Michael, but is ending up with less then what she had in the first place, like a bait-and-switch type of thing. Now she's sharing Isaac, but getting nothing in return.

I don't know any details. I'm just on the outside looking in.
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From my understanding, the Michael-Hanna connection was an afterthought. Scarlette met them first and started dating them as a couple, but then Hanna stepped away so that Scarlette and Isaac could get closer. Scarlette really liked them so she encouraged Hanna and Michael to form a connection as well.

That said, there's still this Scarlette-Hanna connection that seems to have been completely forgotten. I personally suspect that has more to do with it than the Michael connection, whom she's only met once.

 
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