need advice and help-- triad

[evelinkfalls]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and new to the poly lifestyle.

A little about me. My hubby and I have been together for 14 years.

We just started a sexual relationship with a woman (whom we have known for over a year) about 3 months ago.

My experience with other women is very limited-- a couple of intoxicated kisses and a proposition from another friend for a threesome with my hubby, at which I freaked out, feeling pressured by her and not wanting that to be my first experience.

Fast forward to about a year ago, hubby and I met this woman, to whom we are both attracted. She was into both men and women. A friend introduced us.

We became friends, hung out, did family stuff, and occasionally flirted. Then in June of this year things went further. She stayed the night and things happened-- my hubby gave her and me oral, and I went down on her. There was no penetrative sex, as he wasn't able. He said it was a lot of pressure with me there.

This happened one more time.

Then we went on an overnight out of town, where we all three had sex. It was pretty hot. Hubby didn't orgasm, though. So, in the morning, I took care of him, with her watching.

We got back from the trip. She was practically living at our house, staying over every night. We cuddled a lot. We had sex one more time.

Maybe it was all the togetherness, and/or stress from the kids. She has two and we have two. One of hers is a 3 1/2-month old. I was helping with her baby. I was feeling a bit jealous, after having had two miscarriages, in December and January.

Anyway, I start getting testy with hubby, feeling jealous over him cuddling with her, and stupid things like that.

Anyway, we, the trupple, which is what we call our triad, decided to go to my parents' house. Things were fine.

Then my mom fell into the fire pit. Our gf pulled her out of the fire. My hubby put the fire out. My mom was taken to the hospital. Hubs and I drove after the ambulance. Our gf stayed with the kids at my parents' house.

Mom was stable, but waiting on another ambulance ride to get to a life flight to UC Davis. On our ride back to the house, hubby said he couldn't get time off work. He had jobs out of town, etc., so he couldn't go to Sacramento with me to see Mom.

I wanted to talk about anything but what was going on, so I brought up one-on-one sex, because hubby was not having greatest time "performing." He says he feels too nervous because I'm there. I gave him permission for one-on-one, thinking it would be no different than when I was there. But I also told him I didn't know how I would react when it happened.

On way back to our house to drop off the kids and pack, our gf said she was going to stay at our house and take care of things for me. I told her about the convo hubby and I had had. And since I know she isn't that into girls, or at least she identifies as straight, even though she had a one-year lesbian relationship... anyway, I told her I thought I was ok with the idea of her and hubby just being together, but I was not sure how I would be when it happened.

We got home. I packed to drive 350 miles with hubby's sister to see Mom in the in ICU. Hubby and gf were going to stay home.

I told him I felt like they (he and gf) were high fiving each other because I was leaving. He said that was not the case and for me not to worry. She said the same.

So I left. I did okay on the drive. But when I got done seeing Mom, I lost it. I felt totally alone, out of control.

Sis and I were staying at the house of hubby's childhood gf, which should not have bothered me, but did.

Meanwhile, hubby and gf had her sister and brother over. I was livid about that. "How dare either of them have fun while I am in hell?" I vented this to hubby. He told me it was fine, they weren't throwing parties, etc. He asked if her parents could come over the next day. I said, "Yeah, that's fine," as he was supposed to be out of town working that day.

Fast forward to the next evening-- I was totally freaking out. I wanted to go home. I needed my husband. I called him.

In the background I heard the kids laughing. They were playing in a newly-set-up pool. Her parents, sister and brother-in-law were all over for a BBQ. I was livid. Hubby and I argued until about midnight, when he told me he was tired and wanted to go to bed, where, of course, the gf was.

About 20 minutes went by. I had a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach. I called my teenage son to ask if his dad was having sex with the gf. My son said, "Yes, I hear her moaning."

I instantly called hubby. He lied to me off the bat. I hated them both in that moment. I felt like he cheated. I fell to my knees and vomited.

He and she both tell me I am being unfair, I gave them permission, blah blah blah.

I can't think. I can't feel. So after talking to hubby all night I tell my dad I can't stay and drive home.

Now, mind you, in this period of time, my hubby tells me he's in love with two women, wants to leave me, all kinds of craziness.

I get home and talk to both of them. They are sorry they hurt me. It just happened, blah blah blah. He tells me he thought of me the whole time, blah blah blah. He loves me. He isn't leaving me. I gave him permission. I'm not being fair.

Anyway, fast forward a couple weeks. She and I have one-on-one sex. It is horrible. She gets her orgasm from me. I give myself my own orgasm. I am still pissed about them. I can't let it go, and this doesn't help

Anyway, our trupple has played a few more times since all this. But I am having severe anxiety and jealousy issues. I can't get over that when I needed my hubby most, he was with her. For instance, if he's tired and doesn't want to have sex or cuddle with me, I get mad because he wasn't too tired to put out to her. He says he's sorry and it was poor timing.

I made the boundary of no one-on-one sex till I got my emotions under control. But now he is pushing for it, he says, because he doesn't think there should he rules, and I would have one-on-one sex with her often if she were more into girls, and I am a hypocrite for that. He tells me he loves me, and it was just comfort sex, and that's all it is between them, and they are friends.

I cant help but feel like an animal backed into a corner. I was just starting to feel ok about the trupple again and us doing the threesome thing once in awhile, but now that he is pushing for one on one with her again, I have all these jealousy issues, the hurt and the pain again.

How do I get rid of those feelings? How do I not get jealous if he rubs her shoulder or cuddles with her while we are in bed, when I get those things too? He does try to be fair. I enjoy the sex when we are all together, mostly, but I don't like that she is a taker, not really a giver to me at all, although she will blow my husband.

I feel like I am losing my mind. I am driving a huge wedge between my husband and me.

She is left out of the loop in our fights, which may or may not be fair, since they are about an action that happened with her.

But here's the thing. I am not mad at her over it, just him. I feel like he cheated on me. I can't get past it. I guess I am asking how I do that.

Should I consent to the one on one, or what? She told him she thinks it's a bad idea.

I just want my marriage back to when I felt secure. I don't know how to get those thoughts and feelings to go away, other than to be done with her and the situation entirely.

I am sorry this is so long. Maybe it shouldn't have its own thread. But I need help and advice from people who have been sorta in my shoes.

 

[monkeystyle]

Can you format your post to include some paragraph breaks? A lot of people here will probably agree its much easier to read when its not a big blob of words.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Hi there. Sorry to hear that you're hurting, and I hope your mom is ok!

First, if there's still time to edit your post, I would suggest going back and adding some paragraph breaks, many people have trouble reading long posts that don't have any breaks and so may not respond. This post maybe also ought to be moved to the Poly Relationships section of the boards. More people post replies there when folks are seeking advice for specific problems, whereas the Life Stories section is meant to be more rambling and less feedback-focused. Just a suggestion, again, to help you get more replies. The mods can help with that, or you could just re-post this there.

Okay, all of that said, here's my take. Your husband didn't cheat. Plain and simple. You have to figure out how to get that idea out of your head. You told him that he could go for it. You picked the timing of when you did that, not him. If he has feelings for her, how is it surprising that they followed through?

If he wasn't physically where you were (when you were away in Sacramento), then it's not like he could have supported you more, or been there for you more, by not sleeping with her. You still would have been exactly as alone. Are you mad at him for not coming with you to the hospital in the first place?

It sucks that he panicked and lied, and that he handled his responses so poorly afterwards, saying he wanted to leave, but it sounds like both of you are very jumbled up in your feelings right now.

The main problem that I see here is simply that you all moved way too fast. A lot of people make that mistake. This is all very new, just a few months. There's so much to sort out in terms of how you all relate to each other, what you can handle, what you're not ready for, what everyone's feelings are. Having her be practically living with you guys, having her family over to your house, all of that is just way too fast. There's no time for anyone to process and deal with their feelings rationally.

So, my advice, assuming that you want to try to make this work, is to dial things back. Get everyone together, all three of you, because she has a stake in this too, and explain how bad you've been feeling.

Don't engage in any blaming or shaming, because none of you have actually done anything wrong (except for him lying, which, again, it seems like he panicked). Just own your difficult feelings. Tell them that you want to be able to be okay, but that for that to happen you need some breathing room.

Maybe that means that she comes over less, once or twice a week, instead of every night. Maybe that means that you all set aside one evening a week where you check in, talk honestly about your feelings.

Maybe what needs to happen, if she really is mostly straight, is that she and your husband develop their relationship, slowly, and you and he work on your marriage, but you and she just stay friends and not be "gfs," per se. A three-person relationship, where everyone's feelings and interests aren't equal, is very difficult to sustain, and can build resentments, such as with you noticing she doesn't give to you in bed the way she does to him.

But all of these are just ideas. The important thing is that you guys talk it out and slow down.

Like I said above, a lot of people make the mistake you guys have made, underestimating how much work it takes to get involved in polyamory, and how slowly and carefully things may need to occur. I strongly encourage you to do some reading. www.morethantwo.com has great resources on dealing with jealousy and on dating as a couple. Also check out our resources in the Golden Nuggets section.

Finally, I've got to say that the part about having your teenage son report on their sexual activity seemed way out of line to me! It's not fair to put your kid in the position of spying on one parent for the other, and it must have been weird for him, listening to them having sex! Try never to put them in the middle, especially about something so personal. That's really unfair.

 

[GalaGirl]

I just want my marriage back to when I felt secure. I don't know how to get those thoughts and feelings to go away, other than to be done with her and the situation entirely.

That would not be dealing with the problem. That would be swishing it away, to not have to deal with it. If you get rid of people, you still are not getting better at CLEAR COMMUNICATION and REPORTING ACCURATE FEELINGS.

This may be hard to hear, but I notice that there are a lot of times where you say things are fine and they really are not fine with you. Then you take your feelings out on them later. So you are communicating poorly and giving false information about your emotional state. That is lying. I know with the hospital stress you are hurting and frazzled. But that's no way to behave to your partners.

• Tell them you are hurting, rather than telling them you are fine and all is not really fine.
• Tell them you need extra care and comforting right now, so they can do it.
• Don't punish them for not reading your mind. Do not push them away. Invite them in.

And sure, you wished you could've been laughing at the BBQ and not been away dealing with hospital things. But are you really saying you wished your children and partners could have suffered misery and endured suckage, just so you didn't have to be doing it alone? You would not have had to have done it alone if you'd just opened your mouth and told them what kind of care you needed right then, to help you in that tough time.

You seem afraid to tell them straight up what you need.
You seem to be afraid to own your own feelings.

How do I get rid of those feelings? How do I not get jealous if he rubs her shoulder or cuddles with her while we are in bed, when I get those things too?

Is that really speaking to attention given to you during sexy time? Or is that speaking to you not getting care for your stress regarding your mom being in the hospital? If you needed extra care, how are hubs or gf supposed to divine it from the skies?

If you cannot articulate to your own self what you want or need, how can they be expected to divine it?

I'm not trying to be mean to you. I know you're hurting. But in your hurt state, you are hurting others, there by projecting at them and not articulating. Look--

I gave DH permission for one-on-one sex, thinking it would be no different than when I'm there. But I also told him I didn't know how I would react when it happened.

I told her I thought I was ok with the idea of her and hubby just being together but I'm not sure how i will be when it happens.

If you are not ready to go there, and deal with your unsureness in constructive ways, why give permission in the first place? You are dealing with it in destructive ways.

With Mom in the hospital, is now the best time to go there, to explore murky-water feelings, to see if you can grow?

By presenting it this way, it is like you expect them to own your feelings and read your mind, and see to your emotional health and well-being for you. It's like what you really mean when you say this is:

"I give you permission, but I don't know how I will feel. So if I feel yucky when you do it, and do not like feeling yucky, I will be yucky to you, and you'll deserve it. So you better not make me feel yucky."​

​

So mixed up. Nobody makes you feel anything. Emotions just bubble up. You feel whatever you feel, when you feel it. Rain is rain. Sunshine is sunshine. Emotion is emotion. You do not choose how to feel. You choose how you behave in response to those feelings.​

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1) WHY did you give them permission?​

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• Thinking that it would never happen?
• Thinking that if you read their minds successfully, and gave them something you thought they wanted, they would return the favor, and read your mind, and give you something you wanted? What if they guessed wrong, and you didn't get what you'd hoped for?
• Were you afraid they'd cheat on you, so it was a preemptive strike? If so, did you deal with the fear?
• Was it to share in their joy of their developing dyad inside the triad? If so, what stops you from enjoying compersion for them?
• Something else?

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You gave your blessing. If you gave it without meaning it, you lied to them. You need to own that and stop beating them up for it. You gave false information. Apologize to them for that part of it.​

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I tell him I feel like he and she are high-fiving each other because I am leaving. He says that is not the case and for me not to worry. She says the same. So I go.

​

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When you left, you felt like this before leaving? Here you are PROJECTING your ugh onto them, when really what you mean is that you regret giving the permission.​

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So why not take it back, and say "Wait, I want to talk about it before it happens. With Mom in the hospital, this is not the best time to change to a new agreement."​

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Instead, you projected your resentment onto them, along with your anger. But that anger belongs on you being angry with yourself for lying, not on them for going ahead with what they were told by you was ok. If you punish them for that, you are punishing them for you being the liar, and for them not being mind readers.​

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2) When you gave permission, you stated you were not sure how you would feel, but you did not state your expectations of them for helping you deal with your feelings.​

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• Has there been time made to process with them, as a triad, how you felt in the first encounter, to digest it?

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I'm not hearing how they are supporting you through Mom's hospital stay. (How are you with that, btw? Are you feeling better? Is Mom okay?)​

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Have you asked them for support directly? If yes, how?​

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Since you do not clearly state your other needs, I don't think you are stating this need -- that you will need care before they have more alone time, and then aftercare, as well, so you feel like you have connected with both, in the dyads of​

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You + DH​

You + GF​

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If you do not get that, the triad of​

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You <--> (DH + GF)​

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is going to feel "ugh."​

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TIERS​

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I am not getting the vibe that you understand all your tiers, the polymath of this poly configuration. Each dyad has to be healthy and get what it needs to grow or else it will affect the others.​

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SINGLES​

You to yourself (this is different than you to yourself as a footloose single)​

DH to DH​

GF to GF​

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DOUBLES​

You + DH (do you go to him with your stuff?)​

You + GF​

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DH + You (does he come to you with his stuff?)​

DH + GF​

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GF + You​

GF + DH​

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TRIPLES​

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You + DH + GF​

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DH + You + GF​

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GF + You + DH (Note this is different than when it was just You + DH. Now how you behave as a duo has to take GF into consideration. She is alive. She is here. She has feelings.)​

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You + DH + GF working as a team together​

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GHOST LAYER​

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How you choose to be if/when you break up. Will you part as friends, enemies? All relationship end at some point. You must talk about this as a triad, to avoid feeling like, "Ack! They will leave me in the lurch, leave me badly!"​

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Each dyad inside the larger triad-ship needs TLC. Have they it been given this? I don't think so. Figure out which one is needing some TLC and give it some.​

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I hope this all helps you to sort out your feelings and in which tier the problem is. Perhaps parking each puzzle piece in the right tier would help give clues to possible solutions, who is responsible for what, etc.​

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Talk to them. Perhaps they can help you to sort everything out. But everyone has to own a piece of the elephant, even you.​

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Here is another thread in which I wrote about breaking down the elephant problems in a polyship. In case it helps.​

 

[evelinkfalls]

Thank you for the advice.

My mom was in the ICU for 30 days with burns over 23% of her body. She is home now, and doing better, and will hopefully be almost fully healed in 18 months. She may never regain full function of her hands, however.

I realize now that then was not the right time to make that decision. I made it in part because I thought my husband would do it anyway, even though he's never cheated on me, and because I thought it would help with his performance issues, which he was starting to be weird about. And thirdly, in the back of my mind, and in my heart, I never saw him going through with it. I always thought I was enough.

Anytime we have had play time there has been no time for me to regroup with my husband. When I've asked for a regrouping, there either isn't time, he's tired, or I should just know he loves me. The truth is, I need that one on one time with him to know that. I am angry he doesn't give it to me. I am also angry at myself, because maybe I should just know he loves me. I used to know this.

As far as her being straight, or identifying as straight, I am ok with that. She does everything but oral, so I don't know how straight that is. It's just she is a taker, really not much of a giver to either of us, except to him. But this isn't a dealbreaker for me, as I enjoy being a giver. However, this brings up its own set of issues within me, because I never saw myself as a giver, especially in a woman on woman scenario. So I am wondering what that means for me. Am I straight, gay, somewhere in between?

Gf says she loves us both, and has told hubby the 1 on 1 is not a good idea, that she and I are both happy with how things are. They are hot and exciting and comfortable. He is pushing for the 1 on 1 because he feels his window of opportunity is quickly closing, as she will eventually have a bf, and our relationship will end, and we will go back to being just friends. I am not sure how that would work, since we are all very physically attracted to one another, but we will see.

And as far as one of them being there with me while my mom was in hospital, I asked hubby to take time off. He wouldn't. He said he couldn't, which was a lie. He is an independent contractor. He didn't want to go with me, he says, because he couldn't handle seeing my mom there and it reminded him of his mom, who died when he was a kid. She had breast cancer. This I believe, because he broke down at the transport hospital we were first at. Gf said she couldn't go because of her kids, who are 3 years old and 3 months old.

I really didn't want them to be feeling yucky with me at that point in time, I just wanted someone, anyone, to be there to hold me while I broke down and I was alone. While they had each other.

I have always had my husband there to confide in, but he was more caught up in his relationship with her, or his own feelings, than worrying about me because, and I quote. "My mom was going to live. Your mom maybe fucked up, but at least she's alive." So yeah... sorry. I'm pissed at him and his selfishness.

Like I said, I am not mad at gf. I am not her responsibility. however my husband made a commitment to me to be there, and when I needed him most, he wasn't. So how do I control those feelings of abandonment from the one person who swore they would always be there? I am to own my own feelings but how do i own something that wasn't entirely caused by me? Do i just say he really didn't mean to let me down it just happens? Why was getting a piece of ass more important than holding me and telling me everything was going to be ok?

And while he says it was just comfort sex, and didn't mean anything, it had to have meant something in order to even do it at such a time. But I am to blame for that, so I cant be mad at anyone for that but myself.

Now however I have clearly told him I am not ready for 1 on 1 between them, and yet he is pushing for this. So do I stick to my ground and say, "No, I am just not ready," or do I just go ahead and let him do what he wants, because he should be happy?

This poly stuff is so complicated. Why can't it just be simple? We get some together, and he's happy about that, instead if being a greedy little piggy and wanting more and more and more, that I just am not comfortable with yet? Grrrrrrrrr.

Also, is it normal for a couple to go from having sex at least once a day (more for him) to maybe 2 or 3 times a week when they are doing this triad thing? Part of it has been that she is always, or was always here, so I wouldn't feel comfortable just dragging him off to the bedroom, or initiating anything when she was in bed with us, as she is more of a cuddler.

Sorry, I know there is some venting in here, but it helps to write it out and then look at it, or other people look at it and point things out.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Hmm, well, I I am actually feeling much less sympathetic towards your husband now.

On the one hand, this, "Why was getting a piece of ass more important than holding me and telling me everything was going to be okay?" is still unfair. You said above that he didn't want to go with you because he couldn't handle it emotionally because of his mom, and you said you believed that. You could be angry at him for not trying harder to overcome his sadness about his mom to support you, but if you really do think that's what his decision was about, then he didn't stay just in order to get a piece of ass, and you making it about that is unfair.

On the other hand, it sounds like he's being very, very insensitive. I also I think he may be lying, on an emotional level. Look at it this way... either A) he was lying when he said he was in love with two women (why would he lie about that?) and he really is just after a "piece of strange"... in which case it's pretty callous of him to be pushing you so hard when you're having so much trouble, or B) he was telling the truth when he said he's in love with more than one woman, and that's why he's pushing so hard for this now because it really does matter to him. Chances are good he's confused himself.

But I think you may need to confront him with these two scenarios and find out for real which it is. If he *does* have feelings for her, and is lying about it, which I think is more likely, chances are good he won't come clean if he thinks that doing so will break your heart.

Would it break your heart? Would you be furious with him, if it turns out he loves her? If not, you have to help him believe that. If so, you have to be honest about that, but tell him that you need the truth anyway, because being lied to would be worse. And even if he tells you something you don't want to hear, you will respect him for it and deal. That's one approach, anyway.

It's also really messed up that he won't give you the post-threesome one-on-one reassurance that you're asking for. It doesn't need to make sense to him (even though, for the record, I think it makes perfect sense). He can just accept that you need it and your needs are important. How would it hurt him to help you with this?

Bottom line, all the other questions and complications in this situation aside, he really needs to work on his empathy to be a better partner for you. It's like they say, poly really shows you the things that need strengthening in any relationship.

 

[GalaGirl]

Hang in there with Mom. So stressful!

Anytime we have had play time, there has been no time for me to regroup with my husband. When I've asked for a regrouping, there either isn't time, he's tired, or I should just know he loves me.

You need the aftercare. Ask it of him. He can make the time. Skip the next threesome time to have duo time.

Love is a living thing. Neglect kills it. He is neglecting you.

Add that GF sounds like a "pillow princess," where everyone else does all the work-- it doesn't sound like you're getting all your needs met in threesome or FF sex time either.

A lot of your needs are on the back burner. Of course you feel blah. *hug*

As far as one of them being there with me while my mom was in hospital, I asked hubby to take time off. He wouldn't. He said he couldn't, which was a lie. He is an independent contractor. He didn't want to go with me, he says, because he couldn't handle seeing my mom there. It reminded him of his mom... This I believe because he broke down at the transport hospital...

Well, you can choose to be mad, or you can choose to try to work around his hospital/death-phobia. Can he be with you by cell phone when you have to go again? Will he come as far as the hospital cafeteria, or the restaurant down the street, even if the hospital wigs him out? Ask him where his comfort line is and work something out.

Gf says she loves us both. She has told hubby the 1 on 1 is not a good idea, that she and I are both happy with how things are. They are hot and exciting and comfortable. He is pushing for the 1 on 1 because he feels his window of opportunity is quickly closing, as she will eventually have a bf, and our relationship will end, and we will go back to being just friends.

He sounds drunk on NRE. It will pass. Tell him to get himself into balance. It's fine to be all lalala pink fluffy clouds with the GF since things for them just changed with the 1 on 1, but he has to tend to you too. Like by giving you 1 on 1 time to reconnect!

Why was getting a piece of ass more important than holding me and telling me everything was going to be okay? And while he says it was just comfort sex and didn't mean anything, it had to have meant something in order to even do it at such a time. But I am to blame for that, so I can't be mad at anyone for that but me.

Well, a lot of times after a death, people make love just to feel not dead, to feel alive. I'm sure it is same with big illness. He has a phobia, and you gave clearance. I'm not saying it's fun to feel, or the best way for him to behave, but it is what it is.

You could choose to let this go and move past blame. You could choose to focus on getting your needs met now.

the need to reconnect with him
the need to feel close to him
the need for him to behave in loving ways toward you.

Own that you misjudged that whole thing -- giving clearance at not a great time. How can you make amends to him?

But ask him for an apology for his part in the mess -- not tending to you when you were clearly hurting with your mom in the hospital. How will he make amends to you? This was not sensitive at all in how it was expressed.

"My mom was going to live. Your mom maybe fucked up, but at least she's alive."

If he meant it like, "I am glad she isn't dead. Things are going to be tough, but I am so glad she is not dead," he could work on his phrasing!

Talk to him. Get back into right relationship.

Maybe print this thread and have him read it.

 

[NovemberRain]

I am feeling compelled to add that it was entirely out of line to ask your teenage son if they were having sex. As a child who was subjected to her parents' sex lives in way more detail than any child should ever be, I speak to you from experience when I say this is creepy and damaging.

 

[Anneintherain]

Also is it normal for a couple to go from having sex at least once a day (more for him) to maybe 2 or 3 times a week when they are doing this triad thing? Part of it has been that she is or was always here, so I wouldn't feel comfortable just dragging him off to the bedroom, or initiating anything when she was in bed with us, as she is more of a cuddler.

If he is a married/cohabitating person, and his wife does not want the gf there all the time, SHE SHOULD NOT BE THERE ALL THE TIME. Do you want her there all the time? If you don't, make a schedule.

If this were a platonic friend of your husband's, would you let them cock block you a few days a week? If the answer is yes, you should get yourself to some counseling ASAP. Set the precedent now for what you want and need. You could find months of unhappiness turning into years if you can't speak up clearly for what you want.

I wouldn't consider it a triad at all unless she is romantically interested in you, which it doesn't sound like she is. In a V, I wouldn't invite the other arm to spend so much time with us, unless she was my BFF. My husband can go hang out at her place if he wants her company more than I do.

 

[evelinkfalls]

I would like to say that I know asking my son was wrong. However, his room is right next door to ours and, well, gf isn't exactly quiet. So I wasn't having him press his ear to the wall or door. He couldn't sleep because of the noise. I'm not really sure where to go with that, other than to say I was sorta peeved about that, as well. And angry that I even asked him.

 

[cuninglingwist]

Your bi partner

My ex-girlfriend and I had a girlfriend that used to come over for sex with us. My girl was more sexually dominant with her. However, I had no problem letting them play while I watched a ball game.

I thought we had everything we needed to be happy, till one day my girl was almost in tears and unhappy. When I asked why, it seemed our girlfriend was not only submissive to both of us, but she was what you call "passive." She enjoyed all the attention and being sexually dominated and eaten by my girlfriend, but she wouldn't return the favor to her, and this drove my girlfriend nuts. It seemed so unfair and selfish, because she had no problem going down on me. But that's the way some females are.

I suspect your girlfriend is the same way. All this unhappiness and accusations with your hubby would go away if your girlfriend would go down on you. You would be very happy and wouldn't care about their 1 on 1.

Don't laugh, but we even tried some BDSM and whipped her ass & cunt, and punished her breasts, to force her to go down on her, but she said she couldn't.

We ended up letting her know that she needed to find another or others to service her, because her reluctance to orally service my girl was hurting her, even though otherwise we were happy together. But even with the possibility of losing two good friends that gave her an excellent sexual servicing, she still would not give oral service to my girl. And my girl had such a smooth plump delicious tasty cunt that was so orgasmic and fun to work on.

We let her go. Within a month, we found a younger skinnier girl that became orally obsessed. My girl would be up against the wall in the hallway. She would be on her knees, giving oral service to my girl the minute the door was closed. So erotic to watch them. Seeing the satisfaction in my girl's smile was awesome, especially after she came all over the girl's face.

Little things like this mean a lot. So if it's not happening with her, don't feel obligated. Save your relationship. Just tell her, "You're fired!"

I hope nobody got wet reading this!

 

[dingedheart]

Cunning, where have you been? We haven't heard from you in a while.

"Don't laugh, but we even tried some BDSM, and whipped her ass & cunt and punished her breasts to force her to go down on her, but she said she couldn't."

Don't LAUGH? Really? That's all I've been doing.

Maybe you didn't punish her enough or correctly. More training was needed.

But seriously, firing someone for a preference doesn't sound too kind or loving.

I think you need a blog to let out some of these fantasies. Go into more detail on the fine art of breast punishment. Mouse traps, I bet.

As I said once before, every problem or thread doesn't have an erotic fantasy solution. Remember Penthouse Forum. Basement.

 

[BoringGuy]

I think you need a blog to let out some of these fantasies. Go into more detail on the fine art of breast punishment. Mouse traps, I bet.
As I said once before, every problem or thread doesn't have an erotic fantasy solution. Remember Penthouse Forum. Basement.

This.

I wish Cunning would take it somewhere else too. It seems like his solution to everyone's problems is "Find women who want to eat each others' pussies always, no matter what, under any circumstances."

Go find some good amateur porn or something. It's out there.

 

[evelinkfalls]

Wow. That was some advice. Umm... I hadn't really thought about the whole her going down on me thing. I have, but I haven't.

I think I would like this. Of course, I mean, who wouldn't? But I am ok if it takes her time to reciprocate that. I've only done it twice, and am not really sure it is for me. Maybe, though. I mean, I never thought I would do that anyway, so, surprise.

After speaking to both gf and hubby, I just needed to be reassured. I needed to know he still loved me, and that she loved me too and isn't interested in doing a 1 on 1 with him. She also apologized for not being there and hurting my feelers. Hubby has agreed to back things up to where I'm comfortable. I understand now after actually communicating with him he has friends feelings for her. And a fantasy of it would be cool, if he were able to be with her, then tell me about it. I don't find this to be a turn-on. Sorry, I'd like to, and maybe one day I will. But she and I both feel girl on girl way hotter, and way hotter to talk about to hubby.

So, right now, I think things are mending. I feel calmer about the situation than I have in weeks and am starting to be able to let some of my hurt go.

I really needed to stop being mad at myself for not listening to hubby when he was trying to tell me to take things slower. We both moved very fast. So now we have backed up and are sorta starting over, with good communication between the three of us, not just me to her, or me to my hubby, or her to my hubby.

I need to trust that neither of them is trying to hurt me. That's a scary thing, to have to trust not just one person, but two.

I think it has also helped me tremendously to know how she feels towards me. It's nice to hear you are loved.

So we will just go on from here, and try for better, more honest communication, on all sides.

 

[evelinkfalls]

Update to the craziness

It's been a few months since I was on here. I must say things went downhill very quickly.

After we all sat down and talked about what we wanted out of the relationship, and what our relationship was, and that it was exclusive, Gf did a complete 180 and ended up not talking to either of us and having casual unprotected sex with a few different people. Absolutely a dealbreaker.

Then apparently she had been telling her friends she was going to take hubby for herself, and that they had been screwing around behind my back, and her new baby could be his, and she was hoping she was, cuz then I would be out of the picture. All of which I know was not true or possible on hubby's part. I have no doubts she was saying things. Just what remains a mystery. But hubby and I have a pretty good idea.

Anyway, so after a couple of months of not speaking to one another, gf and I buried the hatchet, so to speak. Things are weird. Like she is trying to get her gf status back. It's hard to not fall back into how things were.

How do we handle this situation? Hubby and I are not interested in any more drama or lies being told. We are not interested in a second or a serious gf relationship at this point. We went through a lot to make room for her in our marriage. I went through hell being ok with things and then it was just thrown away and walked all over. I also feel like now she is husband chasing, and not in a "I'm happy to share," way.

I would be lying if I said I didn't miss the physical connection we all had, tho.

That being said, I can't get past how disposable she made not just my friendship, but also my family and marriage.

Is it wrong of us to shut her out sexually and keep her at arm's length? She has stayed over a couple of times. The first time, we (hubby, gf and I) talked and cuddled and slept, nothing else. The next time, hubby didn't want to sleep with us. He doesn't want to lead her on in any way. She got agitated that he wouldn't come to bed, then ended up by leaving early morning, without saying bye or anything.

Is it best to at this point to keep her out of our bed? How do we handle this? We like her, and don't want to lose the kids, but we are just at a loss on things should be.

 

[Anneintherain]

I don't understand. If something is a dealbreaker, it means if the other person does it, you don't date them anymore. Period. End of sexual relationship. It means you can't be involved with them anymore for your own sanity.

Usually in this case most people wouldn't even want to be friends with somebody who lied or was disrespectful like that, or risked your life by having unprotected sex with other people. I really can't see why you'd be having her sleep over or even giving her the time of day.

I'm confused about why you need other people to tell you that keeping her in your life is a really questionable decision, but I'm going to guess that is what 99% of all people in the known universe would say.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Yes, if someone ignores you, breaks the boundaries that you jointly set, and then spreads disrespectful lies about you, you shouldn't sleep with them. Or even be friends with them. How does this not go without saying?

 

[GalaGirl]

I think your lingering romantic feelings for her could be clouding your judgement here.

You miss her. I get that. But here are your current goals and behaviors you list in your post. Examine it through the lens of "Which behavior am I choosing that supports my goal? Which behavior does not?"

CURRENT GOALS:

• We buried the hatchet, made peace. We like her and her kids and want to be friendly.
• Hubby and I are not interested in any more drama or lies being told.
• We are not interested in a second or a serious gf relationship at this point.
• We want to shut her out sexually and keep her at arm's length.

BEHAVIORS:

• You invite the ex-gf for a sleepovers. (caution ahead!)
  • If in guest room or couch? (Great. Friend zone. Supports arm's length. Supports less drama.)
  • In your bed? (This is not friend zone behavior. Could lead to drama. Not honest with yourself or her, if goals is friend only.)
• DH opts out of the next cuddle sleepover not wanting to lead her on. (Supports less drama, supports arm's distance.)
• Ex gets upset and leaves. This is you and DH protecting yourselves from drama and misunderstandings HOW? Have you...
  • Communicated your boundaries and goals to the ex clearly and honestly? (Did you set her up with mixed messaging, or was that her own faulty expectation alone?)
  • Is she honoring your boundaries/goals even after being told them? (You can't control her behavior. You can control hanging around with her.)
  • Are you honoring your own boundaries/goals? (You could control your own behavior.)

If she is not looking out for her own health by not accepting mixed messages from you and asking you to clarify first -- that's on her.

But you and DH do not seem to be choosing behavior consistent with your goals all the time here. That is on you two.

Everyone has to hold their own baggage. Inviting ex-gf, now friend, into bed is giving her a mixed message. You are giving yourself mixed messages like that and not giving yourself the environment you need to stop missing her as a gf and opening yourself to her as a friend only.

• You could apologize to her for giving mixed messages and clarify that you want to be only friends and keep it in the friend zone. Ask her to call you into account if you move out of the friend zone unaware, and do the same for her.
• You could consistently choose behavior (in words and actions) that helps move you forward toward your goals instead.

If the goal has changed (e.g., "get back together with my ex") that's another story and you'd have to re-evaluate.

But if those are the goal, the bottom line, maintain good boundaries, not send mixed messages, keep your own behavior in the friend zone, call her into account if she does not keep her expectations/behavior in the friend zone, and not invite her into your bed at all.

Cuddles or casual sex? Most people don't do those with platonic friends.

 

[BoringGuy]

Things went downhill very quickly. After we all sat down and talked about what we wanted out of the relationship, and what our relationship was, and that it was exclusive, gf did a complete 180, ended up not talking to either of us, having casual unprotected sex with a few different people. Absolutely a dealbreaker. Then apparently she had been telling her friends she was going to take hubby for herself, and that they had been screwing around behind my back, and her new baby could be his, and she was hoping she was, cuz then I would be out of the picture. All of which I know was not true or possible on hubby's part! I have no doubts she was saying things, just what remains a mystery, but hubby and I have a pretty good idea.
After a couple of months of not speaking to one another, gf and I buried the hatchet, so to speak. Things are weird, like she is trying to get her gf status back; it's hard to not fall back into how things were.
How do we handle this situation? Hubby and I are not interested in any more drama or lies being told. We are not interested in a second or a serious gf relationship at this point. We went through a lot to make room for her in our marriage. I went through hell being ok with things, and then it was just thrown away and walked all over. I also feel like now she is husband chasing, and not in an "I'm happy to share" way. I would be lying if I said I didn't miss the physical connection we all had.
I can't get past how disposable she made my friendship, my family and my marriage.
Is it wrong of us to shut her out sexually and keep her at arm's length? She has stayed over a couple of times. The first time we (hubby, gf and me) talked and cuddled and slept, Nothing else. The next time hubby didn't want to sleep with us. He doesn't want to lead her on in any way. She got agitated that he wouldn't come to bed and then ended up leaving early morning without saying bye.
Is it best to to keep her out of our bed? How do we handle this? We like her, and don't want to lose her kids, but we are just at a loss on things should be.

Just tell her the part that I bolded up there.

I can't believe how well you articulated the problems you have/had with her, and then turn around and say "Should we or shouldn't we?" Read your post again and imagine that your best friend or a close relative wrote that. What would you tell them to do?

 

[evelinkfalls]

Thanks

I know my questioning probably irritates some of you who have been doing this for awhile. I have not. This was my first relationship like this, and my first with a woman. I am finding it hard to be in the friend zone when I still find myself attracted to her.

GG, thank you for breaking things down like that. It does help.

We have told her we are not interested in a relationship like that. But we did say we missed her and were confused by how things should be now. We also told her about another girl who is interested in us, that we would like to get to know better, not in a sexual way. Is it ok to say this? She wanted to know who she was and why she was hanging around me.

The first time she stayed over, she was going to stay on the couch. Yes, it was my fault for the confusion. I did invite her into our bed. However this was because we had all been drinking, her more than us, and we also had another person over who creeped her out who was staying on the other couch. The second time she came over, hubby and I had no idea she was staying the night. She just stayed. I know I could have, should have said, "You get the couch," but she just went and jumped into my bed. I know I should have asked her to hit the couch, but it seemed rude somehow.

As far as the rumors, and things she said, she denies everything. She does say she told the third party some things, and regrets doing so, but I honestly don't get why someone whom I don't know and who was and is her friend would say the wild and vicious things she said without them being said to her, or at least some of it being said to her.

The reason I asked for advice is because I really did value the friendship we had. I am so confused by my feelings. Part of me loves her as my friend, part of me is attracted to her, and part of me wants to hate her. I have mixed feelings so I am sending mixed messages, I guess. I feel guilty that I still have feelings for her. I feel guilty that I don't trust her intentions. I question if I even if I should.

I know if the situation were with a family member, I would tell them to stay the hell away from her. Our family members have told us this, but we don't know if this is because they see what kind of person she is, or if they are upset with what our relationship was with her.

There is this part of me who wants to believe this third party made everything up, and my friend would have never done that, or anything to hurt me. I feel dumb for feeling this way, but I do.

Questions--
Will these feelings I have for her go away?
How can I make them go away?
Will the hurt that I feel from her betrayal go away?
Will I ever be able to trust her?
I know they say to forgive and forget, but I am finding this difficult.
Or is it really just cut and dried, and I should just walk away from her?
I hate being a noob and having feelings.