Need advice from polys

[DeltaStar]

I'm looking for advice from other people from a poly perspective.

My wife wanted to open our marriage up two years ago so she could have a relationship with a long-distance online friend. I was hesitant at first, but slowly allowed the boundaries to expand. Not going to lie, it was rough dealing with the emotions and jealousy at first. I communicated this with my wife and she understood, and also said that I was allowed to see other women. COVID definitely put a stop to that for me, but my wife still went to see her friend every few months when COVID numbers weren't horrible.

During the pandemic, I started chatting with a woman within my local friend circle. We met before the pandemic and were acquaintances, but I never felt comfortable messaging her because it seemed inappropriate in a mono relationship. But with my wife opening the marriage, I no longer felt an issue with casually chatting with her. Honestly, I like her and would want to try a relationship with her if the opportunity came up.

My wife knows this, at first she seemed ok with it, but now she is upset because she feels this woman is better than her. The participating event for my wife becoming upset was that the woman shared a personal issue she was having with a mutual friend. It didn't seem like a big deal to me, I just wanted to be supportive, I empathized with her and even recommended for the woman to talk my wife since my wife has more experience with the particular problem. After I told my wife, she got upset and told me she doesn't want me to be close friends or more with her. I don't know if in poly relationships the partner can veto the other's choices in outside partners. She was clearly jealous and asked if this is how I felt when she started seeing the other guy because it felt so horrible. I told her that I definitely felt bad back then, but over time I was able to feel better about it. She spent all night up with anxiety, and the next day not only repeated she didn't want me to be closer friends with the woman, but to not become friends with other women anymore. I honestly was taken completely aback and had no clue how to respond.

Right now I'm feeling lied to because one of the agreements on opening the marriage is that I have the same opportunities/freedom as her. But once she actually had to face jealousy in a real sense, she rescinded it. I am also angry and resentful because it wasn't easy working through my jealousy for her, and she won't even try to do the same for me.

I guess the most important questions are:
In a poly relationship, how much control should a partner have over who the other is allowed to see?
Any advice on how to handle this situation without overly upsetting my wife?

 

[ref2018]

Basically, I am your wife until this point:

My wife knows this, at first she seemed ok with it, but now she is upset because she feels this woman is better than her.

I haven't been seeing anyone else for like six years, but my husband has had the same girlfriend since 2012. So I am in the position to say that this is definitely not right. What it comes down to is that she doesn't have enough confidence or trust in your relationship with each other. It isn't about other women being "better".

I didn't feel any jealousy to "work through" in the first place. In fact, I was glad and relieved that my husband found someone (they were already friends). I don't have any advice except "pull up your big-girl pants," close the marriage for both of you, or break up.

 

[Inaniel]

Poly can sometimes be used as an excuse for having an affair. It sounds like your wife may have had an affair with no intention of reciprocity.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello DeltaStar,

I think maybe you should put your foot down, and tell your wife that if you are not allowed to date other women, then she is not allowed to date other men. Or say to her that as long as she is dating her online friend, you will be dating the woman your wife thinks is "better." I'm not sure how to do this without "overly upsetting your wife," I just know that she is laying down the law, and it is an unfair law. Maybe you could start by pointing out to her that she is making an unfair demand, and ask her what she would suggest that would be fair. Let her think about it (for a while, not forever).

Some couples have veto power with each other, others don't. In most cases, poly folk do not recommend having veto power. However, you have to make a decision as to whether you will have it in your own marriage. Based on what I have read of your situation, I would recommend that you do not allow veto power in your marriage. Your wife should not have control over whom you are allowed to see.

Such are my thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[Marcus]

She spent all night up with anxiety, and the next day not only repeated she didn't want me to be closer friends with the woman, but to not become friends with other women anymore. I honestly was taken completely aback and had no clue how to respond.

Here's a version of my response to this "request":

"I get that you are having an emotional response, that's pretty reasonable, but I decide how I utilize my time/body/emotions/energy. I do not ask for permission in what relationships I form, and any attempt to monitor or restrict my life in this way is a hard no"​

Any advice on how to handle this situation without overly upsetting my wife?

Don't coddle her. You are responsible for being honest, setting healthy boundaries, and being a good receiver of bad news. You are not responsible for whether or not she is feeling insecure.

I suspect that coddling and walking on egg-shells for years is the path you took to get here, so if you want to end up in a different place you are going to need to try a different approach. Just doing more of the same will get you more of the same.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? Here's what I think.

My wife knows this, at first she seemed ok with it, but now she is upset because she feels this woman is better than her.

Your wife's emotional management? Is her stuff to do. Not yours.

the woman shared a personal issue she was having with a mutual friend. It didn't seem like a big deal to me, I just wanted to be supportive, I empathized with her and even recommended for the woman to talk my wife since my wife has more experience with the particular problem.

Some long standing couples need to work on detangling.

Just because my DH works in X? Doesn't mean he feels like doing it free for all my friends, family or other partners. He also wouldn't want me funneling people toward him. He's only gonna say "Nope, not available." It's inconsiderate for me to assume that his time and energy are mine to give away to whoever. I don't run his calendar. He does.

In future? I suggest you NOT to volunteer your wife's time, expertise, or energy FOR your wife. You can ask her if she is willing to do something as a favor for someone. Better if they just ask her themselves and you stay out of it. But you don't just assume and give away her time without her even knowing. Which includes time taken up dealing with people she wouldn't have to deal with if you didn't point them at her.

It would have been enough to say something like "That's too bad. I'm sorry this is happening" to the lady. That demonstrates sympathy/empathy.

After I told my wife, she got upset and told me she doesn't want me to be close friends or more with her.

If it had been me? I would have been mad at YOU. Rather than pass the buck on to the lady.

I would tell YOU just because I work in X? Doesn't mean I feel like doing it free for your friends, family, potential partners, etc. Don't presume and don't volunteer my time FOR me.

The part where you reveal you were sharing emotional/mental intimacy with the lady? I'd be fine. Because that's what poly IS.

Or.... Was this meant to be just extra casual sex on the side, no feelings? And that's why wife is wigging out? Because her idea of open marriage and yours are not the same?

I don't know if in poly relationships the partner can veto the other's choices in outside partners.

Veto is not a good practice, IMHO. It's better to just list the messy people ahead of time. Like please don't date my parents, my siblings, my boss, my best friend, etc. And in return I won't date your messy people. That's fair enough. There's enough people to date in the world without going right for messy ones. And it's not like you are asking me to dump someone I already started seeing.

She was clearly jealous and asked if this is how I felt when she started seeing the other guy because it felt so horrible. I told her that I definitely felt bad back then, but over time I was able to feel better about it. She spent all night up with anxiety, and the next day not only repeated she didn't want me to be closer friends with the woman, but to not become friends with other women anymore. I honestly was taken completely aback and had no clue how to respond.

You could say nothing while she's upset.

When calmer in a few days? Could say

"We agreed it is open on both sides. This isn't open for just you and not for me.

I'm willing to talk about messy people you don't want me to date like not dating your parents or boss before I date them. I am not willing for you to tell me who to dump after I already started dating them.

I see you are struggling because now you have catch up on the metamour skills part. I do sympathize, and I'm willing to be supportive as you process that in appropriate ways. You can expect me to decline if you start asking me to do inappropriate, unreasonable, or irrational things though.

Asking me to dump my current potential just because you feel jealous or because you didn't do all the work of preparation for open marriage? It's not my fault if you got caught up in the hinge skills part, and didn't think about the meta skills part. You are responsible for your own preparedness. "

Right now I'm feeling lied to because one of the agreements on opening the marriage is that I have the same opportunities/freedom as her. But once she actually had to face jealousy in a real sense, she rescinded it. I am also angry and resentful because it wasn't easy working through my jealousy for her, and she won't even try to do the same for me.

It does stink to feel that way. But common enough. It might not be outright lies. Just newbie ignorance or naivete.

Partner 1 tries to sell poly as great for all because they want to be the one to have two sweeties. They don't think it out well or prepare fully all the way. Just excited to be a hinge for the first time. Then later when they realize "Oh... there's more to it than just that" when the shoe is on the other foot. It isn't only about learning hinge skills. But meta skills too when it comes times to share Partner 2's time and attention because now they have a potential new partner.

Which annoys Partner 2 who had to do meta skills first (which is sometimes ugh), and then hinge skills second. From their end it might be like "Duh. What did you think this was? And you get to have fun exploring and I don't?"

Note how you are writing and framing this. It might fuel misplaced resentment.

But with my wife opening the marriage, I no longer felt an issue with casually chatting with her.

No she didn't. She may have asked you to consider. But YOU agreed to go there. So you BOTH agreed to open. You could have said "No, thanks."

I'm feeling lied to because one of the agreements on opening the marriage is that I have the same opportunities/freedom as her. But once she actually had to face jealousy in a real sense, she rescinded it.

What did she rescind exactly? If she doesn't want to do poly anymore? She can quit. Her willingness and consent to do things or not belongs to her.

If you want to keep going? You can. You still have the freedom to date whoever you want so long as they want to date you back. You do not have to agree to go back to closed/monogamy. YOUR willingness and consent to do things or not belongs to you.

It might mean breaking up, if you want to keep going and she wants to stop. But you could stop framing this like wife is in charge of all your decisions or is taking things away from you.

it wasn't easy working through my jealousy for her, and she won't even try to do the same for me.

You didn't do it for her. You did it because it's something you have to do in open/poly marriage. Deal with the stuff, work on the skills. And yes, it was challenging for you. So? It's your responsibility to do the work and prepare if you are going to undertake this relationship model.

You did meta skills first, and now are trying to learn hinge skills.

Wife did hinge skills first, and doesn't sound like she thought about how to develop her meta skills. Now wife has to catch up some of her work. So? It's her responsibility to do the work and prepare. You can't learn her skills FOR her. She can't learn your skills FOR you. You learn them for your own selves.

In a poly relationship, how much control should a partner have over who the other is allowed to see?

What do you mean "allow?" You aren't each other's parent.

I'm not ok with veto. I'm ok with "messy people lists" discussed ahead of time. I don't want DH dating my sister. He doesn't want me dating his brother. Just too weird.

Any advice on how to handle this situation without overly upsetting my wife?

Detangle from her emotions. It doesn't mean you don't care about her at all. It means you understand you cannot do her emotional management FOR her, and it isn't your job to make the whole world cushy for her so she never ever experiences any upset. Let some days pass for her to regain composure. Then talk.

If she failed to think it through and prepare? I think it's ok if she experiences a little discomfort as a result of her lack of foresight. It may motivate her to catch her things up.

You could apologize for volunteering her time and energy without her consent. That behavior was not appropriate.

You could tell her "I am sorry you are struggling to learn metamour skills, and I sympathize. It was challenging for me too. "

If she wants you to dump your potential? And you don't want to? "No, thank you. I will not be dumping this potential."

If in your NRE lalas, you gush about your new potential to wife and tell her too many TMI details? Stop telling so much. Some people in NRE? Get obnoxiously twitterpated and go on and on and on about the new interest. Like they are NRE drunk babbling or something.

If you are doing anything like that? Dial it down some. It's ok to be excited and all. But your time with wife could be about the (you+wife) connection and not wife having to listen to all your lalalala about (you + new potential) connection.

Detangle. Some long term couples are used to telling each other eeeeeverything and not maintaing boundaries with each other. But once there's other partners? This sloppy comes to light.

Do you really want wife telling her BF TMI things about you without your consent? Even if you gave consent for her to tell? He hasn't given consent to hear. She can't just go blurting TMI things at him.

You want to hear TMI things about her BF? Does wife want to hear TMI things about you GF? Does GF want to hear TMI things about your wife?

Every dyad needs some privacy and personal boundaries.

Those are my suggestions.

Galagirl

 

[Jeansandsneakers]

I'm looking for advice from other people from a poly perspective.

My wife wanted to open our marriage up two years ago so she could have a relationship with a long-distance online friend. I was hesitant at first, but slowly allowed the boundaries to expand. Not going to lie, it was rough dealing with the emotions and jealousy at first. I communicated this with my wife and she understood, and also said that I was allowed to see other women. COVID definitely put a stop to that for me, but my wife still went to see her friend every few months when COVID numbers weren't horrible.

During the pandemic, I started chatting with a woman within my local friend circle. We met before the pandemic and were acquaintances, but I never felt comfortable messaging her because it seemed inappropriate in a mono relationship. But with my wife opening the marriage, I no longer felt an issue with casually chatting with her. Honestly, I like her and would want to try a relationship with her if the opportunity came up.

My wife knows this, at first she seemed ok with it, but now she is upset because she feels this woman is better than her. The participating event for my wife becoming upset was that the woman shared a personal issue she was having with a mutual friend. It didn't seem like a big deal to me, I just wanted to be supportive, I empathized with her and even recommended for the woman to talk my wife since my wife has more experience with the particular problem. After I told my wife, she got upset and told me she doesn't want me to be close friends or more with her. I don't know if in poly relationships the partner can veto the other's choices in outside partners. She was clearly jealous and asked if this is how I felt when she started seeing the other guy because it felt so horrible. I told her that I definitely felt bad back then, but over time I was able to feel better about it. She spent all night up with anxiety, and the next day not only repeated she didn't want me to be closer friends with the woman, but to not become friends with other women anymore. I honestly was taken completely aback and had no clue how to respond.

Right now I'm feeling lied to because one of the agreements on opening the marriage is that I have the same opportunities/freedom as her. But once she actually had to face jealousy in a real sense, she rescinded it. I am also angry and resentful because it wasn't easy working through my jealousy for her, and she won't even try to do the same for me.

I guess the most important questions are:
In a poly relationship, how much control should a partner have over who the other is allowed to see?
Any advice on how to handle this situation without overly upsetting my wife?

Hi Delta

A couple of years ago, I too approached my husband wanting to look into ethical non monogamy- so there’s parallels here.

The difference is that I didn’t have someone lined up that prompted the asking - I read ‘ethical slut’ and identified with the perspectives contained in the book. I then read ‘more than two’ and have just finished ‘smart woman’s guide to polyamory’. Amongst those three titles I’ve read articles, had many talks with my husband, been to a marriage psychologist with him to help ensure he and I are ok before I actually get to see anyone. I don’t necessarily agree/wish to adopt every principle I read - but even what I don’t identify with helps me refine my thinking and helps me consider scenarios that may come up in advance.

Im not saying two years of research is the way to do it before starting (it’s frustrating as hell, actually) - but it sounds a bit like your wife advocated to begin something straight away without doing any real homework because she was chomping at the bit for an opportunity present in that moment.

Now it’s bit her in the ass because it’s your turn to have an opportunity and she’s not equipped to deal. That’s not fair. I’m not saying she’s bad person, jealousy (from what I’ve researched) strikes even the most seasoned poly folk, but enforcing veto powers backfires big time and pandering to insecurities (unsurprisingly) does very little to improve them.

My theoretical advice is to gently stand your ground. Call out the disparities. Do some reading together and convene to discuss your take aways from each chapter. You could choose to slow your roll with new lady to an extent to appease your wife a little- but on an agreed temporary basis with the understanding that it’s not permanent (or something). I think if you both do your homework, you’ll find things resonate with you. And when things come up that you don’t agree on - you can have the discussion preemptively on how to compromise (as opposed to waiting until you’re knee deep in a situation and surrounded by drama).

I dunno. That’s just my two cents worth. Hope you’re ok

 

[DeltaStar]

I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? Here's what I think.



Your wife's emotional management? Is her stuff to do. Not yours.



Some long standing couples need to work on detangling.

Just because my DH works in X? Doesn't mean he feels like doing it free for all my friends, family or other partners. He also wouldn't want me funneling people toward him. He's only gonna say "Nope, not available." It's inconsiderate for me to assume that his time and energy are mine to give away to whoever. I don't run his calendar. He does.

In future? I suggest you NOT to volunteer your wife's time, expertise, or energy FOR your wife. You can ask her if she is willing to do something as a favor for someone. Better if they just ask her themselves and you stay out of it. But you don't just assume and give away her time without her even knowing. Which includes time taken up dealing with people she wouldn't have to deal with if you didn't point them at her.

It would have been enough to say something like "That's too bad. I'm sorry this is happening" to the lady. That demonstrates sympathy/empathy.



If it had been me? I would have been mad at YOU. Rather than pass the buck on to the lady.

I would tell YOU just because I work in X? Doesn't mean I feel like doing it free for your friends, family, potential partners, etc. Don't presume and don't volunteer my time FOR me.

The part where you reveal you were sharing emotional/mental intimacy with the lady? I'd be fine. Because that's what poly IS.

Or.... Was this meant to be just extra casual sex on the side, no feelings? And that's why wife is wigging out? Because her idea of open marriage and yours are not the same?



Veto is not a good practice, IMHO. It's better to just list the messy people ahead of time. Like please don't date my parents, my siblings, my boss, my best friend, etc. And in return I won't date your messy people. That's fair enough. There's enough people to date in the world without going right for messy ones. And it's not like you are asking me to dump someone I already started seeing.



You could say nothing while she's upset.

When calmer in a few days? Could say

"We agreed it is open on both sides. This isn't open for just you and not for me.

I'm willing to talk about messy people you don't want me to date like not dating your parents or boss before I date them. I am not willing for you to tell me who to dump after I already started dating them.

I see you are struggling because now you have catch up on the metamour skills part. I do sympathize, and I'm willing to be supportive as you process that in appropriate ways. You can expect me to decline if you start asking me to do inappropriate, unreasonable, or irrational things though.

Asking me to dump my current potential just because you feel jealous or because you didn't do all the work of preparation for open marriage? It's not my fault if you got caught up in the hinge skills part, and didn't think about the meta skills part. You are responsible for your own preparedness. "



It does stink to feel that way. But common enough. It might not be outright lies. Just newbie ignorance or naivete.

Partner 1 tries to sell poly as great for all because they want to be the one to have two sweeties. They don't think it out well or prepare fully all the way. Just excited to be a hinge for the first time. Then later when they realize "Oh... there's more to it than just that" when the shoe is on the other foot. It isn't only about learning hinge skills. But meta skills too when it comes times to share Partner 2's time and attention because now they have a potential new partner.

Which annoys Partner 2 who had to do meta skills first (which is sometimes ugh), and then hinge skills second. From their end it might be like "Duh. What did you think this was? And you get to have fun exploring and I don't?"

Note how you are writing and framing this. It might fuel misplaced resentment.



No she didn't. She may have asked you to consider. But YOU agreed to go there. So you BOTH agreed to open. You could have said "No, thanks."



What did she rescind exactly? If she doesn't want to do poly anymore? She can quit. Her willingness and consent to do things or not belongs to her.

If you want to keep going? You can. You still have the freedom to date whoever you want so long as they want to date you back. You do not have to agree to go back to closed/monogamy. YOUR willingness and consent to do things or not belongs to you.

It might mean breaking up, if you want to keep going and she wants to stop. But you could stop framing this like wife is in charge of all your decisions or is taking things away from you.



You didn't do it for her. You did it because it's something you have to do in open/poly marriage. Deal with the stuff, work on the skills. And yes, it was challenging for you. So? It's your responsibility to do the work and prepare if you are going to undertake this relationship model.

You did meta skills first, and now are trying to learn hinge skills.

Wife did hinge skills first, and doesn't sound like she thought about how to develop her meta skills. Now wife has to catch up some of her work. So? It's her responsibility to do the work and prepare. You can't learn her skills FOR her. She can't learn your skills FOR you. You learn them for your own selves.



What do you mean "allow?" You aren't each other's parent.

I'm not ok with veto. I'm ok with "messy people lists" discussed ahead of time. I don't want DH dating my sister. He doesn't want me dating his brother. Just too weird.



Detangle from her emotions. It doesn't mean you don't care about her at all. It means you understand you cannot do her emotional management FOR her, and it isn't your job to make the whole world cushy for her so she never ever experiences any upset. Let some days pass for her to regain composure. Then talk.

If she failed to think it through and prepare? I think it's ok if she experiences a little discomfort as a result of her lack of foresight. It may motivate her to catch her things up.

You could apologize for volunteering her time and energy without her consent. That behavior was not appropriate.

You could tell her "I am sorry you are struggling to learn metamour skills, and I sympathize. It was challenging for me too. "

If she wants you to dump your potential? And you don't want to? "No, thank you. I will not be dumping this potential."

If in your NRE lalas, you gush about your new potential to wife and tell her too many TMI details? Stop telling so much. Some people in NRE? Get obnoxiously twitterpated and go on and on and on about the new interest. Like they are NRE drunk babbling or something.

If you are doing anything like that? Dial it down some. It's ok to be excited and all. But your time with wife could be about the (you+wife) connection and not wife having to listen to all your lalalala about (you + new potential) connection.

Detangle. Some long term couples are used to telling each other eeeeeverything and not maintaing boundaries with each other. But once there's other partners? This sloppy comes to light.

Do you really want wife telling her BF TMI things about you without your consent? Even if you gave consent for her to tell? He hasn't given consent to hear. She can't just go blurting TMI things at him.

You want to hear TMI things about her BF? Does wife want to hear TMI things about you GF? Does GF want to hear TMI things about your wife?

Every dyad needs some privacy and personal boundaries.

Those are my suggestions.

Galagirl

Thanks for your reply and perspective. I didn't think to ask her before suggesting the woman talk to her, but I see that was wrong. I'll be more mindful in the future. My wife was upset at the idea of any emotional intimacy though.

I'm fairly emotional right now, so I don't trust my thoughts 100% and not always choosing the best words. She didn't lie to me, she just didn't prepare herself because I don't think she thought I would do anything.

As for what I share with my wife, I don't go into detail, I just give a general overview so she knows what is going on.

 

[DeltaStar]

My wife and I did have conversation. I told her it's unfair to request I stop talking to the woman and she does need to work on her jealousy. She seems to understand more now, but I feel there's going to be more hard conversations in the future. She said she trusts me, but doesn't trust the woman, and feels the woman might try to unintentionally steal me away. She brought up how I asked that she not talk to one of her exes and she thinks it's the same. It's not because I'm jealous, I only asked her to stop talking with him a lot (check ins are ok) because they had a toxic relationship and I don't want to see her hurt again.

 

[GalaGirl]

She said she trusts me, but doesn't trust the woman, and feels the woman might try to unintentionally steal me away.

Wife saying she trusts you but not the other person? Might be projecting. It's always easier to make the "outsider" the bad guy. Rather than say "I WANT to trust you, but I've never been with you as hinge before. I don't know what your hinge skills are like yet. I'm nervous. I need reassurance you aren't just gonna dump me for the New Shiny Person."

Wife could trust you are not like a sweater, a possession she owns. Like a sweater someone is gonna come and steal away. And the sweater can't say or do anything about it.

You a person of your own will who chooses to participate here. While common enough jealousy reaction? Even if people want to steal you away? You are "un-stealable" because YOU do not want to go off with them and just dump wife. Right? You aren't a sweater. You CAN say and do things. You can tell the person trying to rope you off for themselves "Look, this is poly. This is not you roping me off. So please respect my limits on that. If it's that you say you want to do poly but actually want a partner to yourself? I'm not that person. Best you seek monogamy and not polyamory."

If they really do steal you, that's kidnapping, and a whole other thing apart from learning to do polyamory and share the hinge partner's time and attention.

She brought up how I asked that she not talk to one of her exes and she thinks it's the same. It's not because I'm jealous, I only asked her to stop talking with him a lot (check ins are ok) because they had a toxic relationship and I don't want to see her hurt again.

Not the same. This woman is not your ex. If you and wife agree to "no exes" and put them on the messy people list, that means no exes then.

Besides, if she requests you dump the potential? That's a request. You can either say "Ok" or you can say "No, thank you. I won't be doing that."

Same as her. If you request she not talk to her ex? That's a request. She can either say "Ok" or she can say "No, thank you. I won't be doing that."

She seems to understand more now, but I feel there's going to be more hard conversations in the future.

That is to be expected when you are newbies, and especially when she didn't think all the way through. Some catch up work needs to happen. It's ok to have the conversations that need to happen.

I'm fairly emotional right now, so I don't trust my thoughts 100% and not always choosing the best words.

Good you are self aware and see that.

Could make it a practice to take a time out when either one gets emotionally overloaded. I know it takes me at least 3 days to get past emotional flooding, anxiety, or a big stress hormone dump. My body needs time to clear it away. My mind needs rest and not be thinking about problems solving or what if this and that.

It's ok to go through some growing pains. Take it one step at a time.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from DeltaStar):

"She brought up how I asked that she not talk to one of her exes and she thinks it's the same."

Hmmm. It kind of is the same.

Re:

"It's not because I'm jealous, I only asked her to stop talking with him a lot (check-ins are okay) because they had a toxic relationship and I don't want to see her hurt again."

It's nice that you don't want to see her hurt again, but that is really her problem, she knows she had a toxic relationship with him, she is capable of making the call of risking a repeat situation. It sounds like both of you are trying to micromanage each other's choices of who to see/date. I consider this an unhealthy practice all around. You are both grown-ups, you can both make your own dating decisions.

 

[Marcus]

She brought up how I asked that she not talk to one of her exes and she thinks it's the same. It's not because I'm jealous

This kind of back and forth is a bad habit.

I think a more reasonable approach is to move away from the balancing act, and instead just state clearly what kind of relationship structure you want. Then, she discusses what kind of relationship structure she wants. If you find that your two interests overlap then you can proceed. If you find that they don't overlap then make adjustments to how you relate to each other.

The tit for tat, score keeping thing doesn't work. I've only ever seen that it prompts competitiveness (what you are currently experiencing).