Need advice please, quad boundaries, kids and polyamory

[Anna]

Well, for starters, hubby, Ace, and I are new to being in a poly relationship. We are currently dating another married couple (Becky and Bram) who we get along with great. Ace likes hanging out with Bram, like going out and having drinks with the guys. I like hanging out with Becky, but rarely have the time, since we do have young children. One is 12 and the other is 6 years old. Their kids are just out of high school.

So, on the outside, we look very happy. We like having fun with our kids, and more without the kids. We really only get to hook up without kids once a month, twice if we are lucky. We rarely get a babysitter for the whole night, that's why. This is okay, because we like hanging out and doing things as a big family/friends anyway. I would like my kids to get to know them. I would like to have them in our lives for a long time.

Ace and I tried being with another couple about six years ago. Long story short, we were all good friends, liked hanging out, lived very close by. One night, the woman got frisky with me and I went with it. So every now and then we would all hook up-- her and me; her and my hubby; and her hubby with me. This went on for a year.

Then she started to have regrets and said she didn't know if she wanted to continue. I said okay. But then she would always initiate sex with me anyway, and not wanting to reject her, we would all have sex. Finally they moved about 15 minutes away, and we never heard from them again! No closure, no reason, no nothing. It killed me. It took me another year even to want to make friends with anyone. I was afraid of being left again.

So, fast forward to our current couple. The only boundaries I have asked for, till I feel more comfortable, are no sexual interactions when we are in the presence of the kids.

The other one is no one-on-one alone time. Example: I cannot go out on a date alone with Bram, or have sex alone, and Ace cannot go out on a date alone with Becky, or have sex alone. We have group sex, all four of us. We do not have threeways either. The other couple doesn't care. These are not their boundaries. They are mine and Ace's.

The reason for those last two boundaries is that I feel left out because of a previous incident between them and Ace that hurt me very much. One night, we were supposed to go over for dinner with our kids. I became really sick with a fever and was in bed for two days. Since they had planned a huge meal, I felt bad about us not going and having to cancel on short notice. I told Ace to go ahead with the kids, and I would just stay home. So they went.

After dinner, apparently Ace and Becky started to make out. I called and asked when he might be home, since my fever was getting worse. He said, "I will be home in an hour." I said ok. Well, an hour and a half went by. I called in fear of something happening to him. He was still there. I was upset, angry and still feverish. When he got home, he said he was sorry, but didn't know we were not allowed to make out if the other was not there. Yes, we hadn't discussed this previously, but I thought he would respect me, and leave at the first notion of them wanting to make out without me there.

The reason for the first boundary of no contact while kids around is my kids once almost walked in on me making out with Bram, and Ace making out with Becky. One time, they broke that boundary. Bram was out of town, so Becky came over to hang and watch movies, since we didn't have a sitter. I left to get up and make a drink. I came back and she was making out with Ace. I was very upset and angry. I didn't say anything. But I left the room till Becky got the hint. I was upset. Becky left. Ace and I argued. I went for a walk to clear my head and make sure I was not overreacting.

So now I feel I cannot trust her. When Ace goes over to hang out with Bram and his other guy friends, I get nervous and anxious. I have lost countless nights of sleep and missed work due to being upset and just sick to my stomach. I trust Ace that he would not let it happen again. But I don't feel I can trust Becky.

I also sometimes get jealous of the emotional bond Ace and Becky have, since I don't feel the same kind of bond with Bram.

I am sorry this is so long. There is so much more to talk about. I just thought that getting this out and getting advice from others might help me. I have read a book on polyamory to help me, but I think I really could use some advice from real people.

If you have any other questions, please ask me.

Thanks,
Anna

 

[redpepper]

To have a boundary that you are not to do anything sexual unless you four are together is understandable, if Ace has broken boundaries before. I can see why some time should pass with this boundary so as to build trust. It sounds like you had no boundaries at first, and then decided to make some because of your emotional reaction. Actually, this sounds more like a rule, to me, which is a bit different.

I think you are being a bit hard on them for something that was a learning curve, not broken boundaries. I would hope that you have a bit of give in your new boundary, sooner rather than later, unless you are swinging, and there is to be no emotional connection allowed between you all. Some swingers agree to no one-on-one sex outside of the group of four (or three) so as to assure (apparently) that connection won't happen and it all will just be about sex. It sounds like your situation is a bit different, however and that you do have emotional connections.

What do you hope to gain by this situation? I don't see any room for a future here. Quad sex gets old pretty fast, usually. It's fun at the beginning, but eventually those involved develop more feelings for certain members than others and want alone time. It sounds like that is happening. Why not go with that? They are not those other people you dated before. If there is not some give, I would think that they might want to move on to people that have fewer rules and more fluid boundaries. Either that, or they will start expressing their own desires to change things.

I don't get why you are calling all the shots here. It sounds a bit controlling to me. On the other hand, if they are willing to wait it out until you are comfortable, then that is a lovely gesture. I just think that you would be doing everyone a favour if you pushed through and opened it up a bit. Maybe it's time for some one-on-one dates.

As for no sexual/overly romantic gestures in front of the kids, that makes sense to me, especially at this early stage.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

She started to have regrets and didn't know if she wanted to continue. I said ok. But then she would always initiate sex with me, and not wanting to reject her, we would all have sex. Finally they moved about 15 minutes away and we never heard from them again. No closure, no reason, no nothing. It killed me. It took me another year even to want to make friends with anyone. I was afraid of being left again.

This sucks, but it's in the past. These are different people, different dynamics. Hopefully there is more emotional maturity and ability to deal. Are you clear with them that you wish this to evolve beyond swinging? That's what I took your comment about your kids getting to know them to mean.

I told Ace to go ahead with the kids, and I would just stay home. So they went. After dinner, apparently Ace and Becky started to make out. I called and asked when he might be home, since my fever was getting worse. He said, "I will be leaving and home in an hour." I said ok. Well an hour and a half went by. I called in fear of something happening to him.

How are you with mobile phones? I have people in my life who have real probs with mobile phones, in that they use them to alleviate anxiety around close relationships. Their near and dear need to be always just a call away, and if for whatever reason cannot be reached, their anxiety will increase to a breaking point and they will lash out.

You said that they "apparently" started to make out? So you don't know for sure what they were doing?

I left the room till she got the hint I was upset. She left...

This is not a healthy communication pattern in the long run. I suggest you stop 'giving hints' and start talking when something upsets you.

I trust Ace, that he would not let it happen again. But I don't feel I can trust her.

So you think she would jump Ace and rape him if the two of them were left alone? Not trusting her is not trusting him. It takes two to tango.

I also sometimes get jealous of the emotional bond that Ace and Becky have, since I don't feel the same kind of bond with Bram.

I think you could really benefit from some advice on jealousy management. Do a search on that here. Loads of people struggle with the same issues.

It sounds like you had no boundaries, and decided to make some because of your emotional reaction. Actually, they sound more like rule to me. That is a bit different.

Making rules after the fact might create resentment. Talk about your jealousy. Sometimes just talking helps loads.

What do you hope to gain by this situation? I don't see any room for a future here. Quad sex gets old pretty fast, usually. It's fun at the beginning, but eventually those involved develop more feelings for certain members than others and want alone time.

I'm all for group sex, but it has its time and place. For me, it's best in the getting-to-know-you phase, and can be really hot in moderation. But for me, real connection happens in one-on-one sex. If you'd allow yourself to go more with the flow, you might find yourself developing more of an emotional bond with Bram, also.

As for no gestures in front of the kids, that makes sense, especially at this early stage.

Yep, the kids are definitely old enough to start asking questions. Good call.