New and feeling uncomfortable

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RedLioness17

New member
I need to know if I'm acting crazy or controlling. My fiancé and I have been in a relationship for several years and have a family together. We've always been open and usually have great communication.

Last month, a women came back into his life and he made some very poor decisions. He lied to her about our relationship and he lied to me about the situation as well. This blew up (of course), but somehow she decided to keep seeing him. I still feel hurt by this and honestly very threatened by his feelings for her. He admits to loving her and I can tell it's true.

She honestly believes that "if I loved him as much as she did, I wouldn't let him stray", so obviously I don't love him. She's convinced that he's going to leave me and our kids to marry her. And he doesn't refute this at all. He doesn't agree with her, but he won't dissuade her.

This bothers me beyond belief. I love him and want him to be happy, but in my head our family comes first. When we discuss this, he tells me that I'm trying to control him and I need to "let him have his fling".

Advice? Experience? I'll admit that I'm not thinking 100% logically due to being 8 months pregnant.
 
Hi RedLioness17,

That sounds like a real mess. I'm sorry your fiance isn't being loving and kind to you. Whether or not you're in a polyamarous relationship, lying is NOT OK to a partner. He lied to you. Now it sounds like he is not being humble and apologetic, but instead is being defensive (saying you should "let" him have his fling). To me, lying is not just about the lie, it is about the message of disrespect that goes along with the lie. He disrespected you and he disrespected this woman. He needs to rebuild the trust with you. He needs to show you he understands why lying isn't OK, because without that, your relationship doesn't have the foundation of solid trust to stand on. He should be trying to heal his mistake at the moment, not bullying you into a situation you're unhappy with.

He should also be stepping up to be a father, and putting his attention on baby coming (I am assuming the baby is his and yours?). Even if it's not his baby, he should still be being supportive of you at this difficult time of you being pregnant. As a father with a new baby on the way, this isn't the time to be adding messy people to your lives.

It sounds to me like he's being childish and trying to escape responsibility by acting like a brat.

One thing you didn't mention in your post, is whether the two of you actually have a polyamarous relationship, and if so, what the agreements in it are. I am unclear whether you have a monogamous relationship, in which he cheated on you, and is now trying to make it into polyamory - or whether you guys are polyamarous, and he had a sexual relationship with this lady within the bounds of that agreement - but lied about some 'smaller' things. It would help to have more clarification.

Either way:

1. Lying is a NO.
2. It is up to the person who lied to rebuild trust. He's not doing this.
3. You need his help, love and support with a new baby on the way.
4. He needs to step up.
5. He is trying to bully you into something you don't want and are not OK with.
6. This is NOT polyamory, because he's bullying, not treating you with love and respect.
7. MOST IMPORTANT: You don't have to put up with this or stay with him. You need to get some help and support for yourself in the way of family, close friends, support networks like women's shelters, so you can be ready to leave him if it doesn't work out and if he doesn't meet your standards.

You are not overreacting. He is being a douche.
 
Hi again, Lioness,

I must say, I am wondering if I jumped the gun a little. More because there's information we don't have, which wasn't shared in your original post.

I'm going to ask a few additional questions and then leave it for the more experienced members of the board. I am a newbie to poly myself, but I have to say it SOUNDS like your fiance isn't being kind or respectful to you (or other lady).

Questions:

1. Do you have a polyamarous relationship (as in, BEFORE this happened, you agreed on that structure and what it would look like, ground-rules, agreements, boundaries etc)?

2. If yes to #1, did you both go into this joyfully? Was there any bullying or pushing on either of your parts to make it happen?

3. What lies did you fiance tell the other lady?

4. What lies did he tell you?

5. How has he shown he is sorry and made amends to either / both of you? (As in, shown he really understands why the lying is wrong and what he has done to show a true change in his character, that it won't happen again?)

6. Is the baby his? (I ask because if you're already poly, it's of course possible that the baby is another one of your partner's)

7. Have you discussed how (or IF) your lifestyles will change because of the baby coming? (I read here that many poly couples take dating off the table for a period of time when new baby arrives, such as 2 years or 5 years etc - enough time to give all energy to being parents). Have you agreed on what each of your responsibilities and commitments are to new baby and are you both on board with this?

8. What kind of relationship structure do YOU want (poly? mono? specific kinds of poly but not others?)

9. How are your communication skills with each other? Are you good at talking and listening or are most 'conversations' about difficult issues actually fights?

10. I read that the other lady isn't poly friendly - that is, she believes that he is 'straying' and not 'part of a committed, poly relationship'. What has he done / is he doing to let her know he is poly, is your fiance and is marrying you? Has he made your relationship structure clear to her, as to what she can and can't expect from him?

11. How long have you and he been together?

12. What are his feelings about the baby? What about yours?

I think once you answer these, other members of the board might have more to offer in terms of advice.
 
I am sorry you deal in this. :(

I cannot quite tell what the other woman's role is from your post.

  • Did he cheat? And the woman knew it was cheating? So she was his cheating accomplice?
  • Or did he cheat and he lied to both you and the woman. So she didn't know she was being taken for a ride and being made his cheating accomplice?

Either way, it doesn't much matter what her role was.

For sure it sounds like he did some poor behaviors. So the details don't seem to much matter. Whether or not he takes some personal responsibility or not is what matters as you evaluate if this is a good long term partner for you or not.

Instead of apologizing and cleaning up his messes? It sounds like he continues to string her along. Who knows what stories he continues to tell her.

And he ignores your upset despite the fact that you have mad him aware of it, you have a romantic relationship together than is getting dinged, and you have co-parenting responsibilities together than need attending to. AND you are pregnant with a new baby. He's dropping all kinds of balls there with you.

This bothers me beyond belief. I love him and want him to be happy, but in my head our family comes first. When we discuss this, he tells me that I'm trying to control him and I need to "let him have his fling".
Click to expand...

I don't think you are overreacting. I would be bothered by this behavior too! It's expecting to have an actual PARTNER, and then trying to deal with a ghost who isn't there and isn't holding up his end of various sticks.

He's basically using the both of you. Nobody likes to be used. :(

During engagement time people are usually on their BEST behavior because they are trying to see if they are compatible long haul and really wanting to try to make a match. If this is his "best" he can offer you? It's a poor, poor offer. In your shoes I would be rethinking "fiance" and I might not want to go through with marrying him. Dealing with him as a disrespectful coparent sounds like it would be enough of a drag. :(

IME, when selfish people are asked to exercise some self control, demonstrate consideration for others, and/or meet responsibilities they don't want to meet? They have a tendency to "flip it around" and play the "blame game" like you are the one at fault. You are supposed to look the other way and let them slide. But you are "playing wrong" -- because you aren't looking the other way. So they flip it around and blame you for "not playing right."

If they succeed in getting you to defend yourself or make you mad or exhaust you with circular arguments and you give up talking to them about stepping up to meet their responsibilities and exercising self control? Then the spotlight is no longer on their poor behavior and they are off the hook.

Bottom line? He lied to her, he lied to you, and he continues to behave poorly toward you. You don't seem to like it. So you have to figure out what you want to do.

It's challenging enough to try to transition from a cheating start to some kind of poly model without him shirking his responsibilities to you and the babies on top of it.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

You cannot "let him" have his fling. You are not his parent. You also have NO CONTROL over his behavior. He is the one who controls his behavior. Right now it sounds like he is behaving poorly and does not choose to change that behavior. I think what he means when he says that you should "let him have his fling" is "I want to do whatever I want without having to listen to you tell me I am behaving poorly even if I am behaving poorly."

He might prefer you shut up, but you don't have to. You control YOUR behavior, YOUR boundaries, YOUR consent to participate in things or not.

You could restate your boundaries:

  • You could say you do not appreciate being lied to.
  • You could say you don't want to be mixed up in his shenanigans with the other woman

Then you figure out the consequences YOU can do are.

  • Maybe you decide you are NOT up for changing to a poly model with him and this woman so you tell him you are bowing out it
  • Maybe you decide on a trial separation. Wait and see if he comes to his sense or changes his behavior.
  • Maybe you decide to end the engagement right now and not bother to wait and see. Just not date him any more and only deal with childcare things.

You might also revise this belief:

I love him and want him to be happy, but in my head our family comes first.
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because he does not seem to share that belief. It seems he thinks HE comes first.

So you might update your belief to be "In my head, my well being and the kids well being come first. Even if it means not being involved too tight with their father because he brings unhealthy drama into our lives."

Not fun, and I'm sorry you deal in a mess like this.

But if he's not going to work with you to work something out? Best that you accept he's not the reliable partner you were hoping for and accept he has no interested in being a partner to you in this family. He's out for only himself.

So change your definition of "family" to be just you and the kids. And you move on with sorting out your new life.

I do not suggest you say nothing and accept poor treatment from him. All that teaches him is that you will make some initial noise, but you will eventually pipe down. You are basically "ignorable" and "usable." And he can keep on doing whatever he wants whether it hurts you or not. :(

Might be a great arrangement for HIM, but I don't see how that is healthy or loving for YOU. :(

Galagirl
 
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Infinity said:
Questions:

1. Do you have a polyamarous relationship (as in, BEFORE this happened, you agreed on that structure and what it would look like, ground-rules, agreements, boundaries etc)?

2. If yes to #1, did you both go into this joyfully? Was there any bullying or pushing on either of your parts to make it happen?

3. What lies did you fiance tell the other lady?

4. What lies did he tell you?

5. How has he shown he is sorry and made amends to either / both of you? (As in, shown he really understands why the lying is wrong and what he has done to show a true change in his character, that it won't happen again?)

6. Is the baby his? (I ask because if you're already poly, it's of course possible that the baby is another one of your partner's)

7. Have you discussed how (or IF) your lifestyles will change because of the baby coming? (I read here that many poly couples take dating off the table for a period of time when new baby arrives, such as 2 years or 5 years etc - enough time to give all energy to being parents). Have you agreed on what each of your responsibilities and commitments are to new baby and are you both on board with this?

8. What kind of relationship structure do YOU want (poly? mono? specific kinds of poly but not others?)

9. How are your communication skills with each other? Are you good at talking and listening or are most 'conversations' about difficult issues actually fights?

10. I read that the other lady isn't poly friendly - that is, she believes that he is 'straying' and not 'part of a committed, poly relationship'. What has he done / is he doing to let her know he is poly, is your fiance and is marrying you? Has he made your relationship structure clear to her, as to what she can and can't expect from him?

11. How long have you and he been together?

12. What are his feelings about the baby? What about yours?

I think once you answer these, other members of the board might have more to offer in terms of advice.
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1. Yes.

2. No. We both were of the same mindset when we started our relationship.

3. He told her (a) I was a very good friend, (b) the baby wasn't his, (c) he and I did not have a preexisting relationship.

4. He told me that she was 100% aware of our relationship/our family and that she was comfortable with the situation.

5. Yes, he feels horrible. Honestly I can understand what he meant to do, but I think everything moved too fast for him (with her) and he got caught up in the whirlwind. He's apologized multiple times.

6. Yes, the baby is his. We have multiple children.

7. Yes, we have discussed that I will need move of his time due to the added responsibilities of having a baby on top of our other children. He is on board.

8. I don't tend to want full relationships just because they take time and it's usually something I don't have an abundance of. He enjoys the full experience.

9. Our communication is usually so amazing, that is what made the situation worse in my mind. We talk about everything and anything, never fight, and then bam, it turns out he was keeping things secret. I think it's probably the first real "fight" we've had in years.

10. She knows now. She was super upset at first, but now she seems to be of the opinion that, even though we both explained everything to her, I'm a bad partner for "letting him stray". So she knows we are poly, but thinks it's silly and thus, if she loves him enough he'll realize she's the love of his life and thus drop me (and the kids) to marry her. He has explained to her that he will never abandon his family (his words), but obviously she thinks her love for him will conquer all.

11. Several years.

12. Very excited about the baby. Honestly I think he's more excited than me at the moment. The baby was very much planned.
 
GalaGirl said:
I am sorry you deal in this. :(

I cannot quite tell what the other woman's role is from your post.

  • Did he cheat? And the woman knew it was cheating? So she was his cheating accomplice?
  • Or did he cheat and he lied to both you and the woman. So she didn't know she was being taken for a ride and being made his cheating accomplice?

Either way, it doesn't much matter what her role was.

For sure it sounds like he did some poor behaviors. So the details don't seem to much matter. Whether or not he takes some personal responsibility or not is what matters as you evaluate if this is a good long term partner for you or not.

Instead of apologizing and cleaning up his messes? It sounds like he continues to string her along. Who knows what stories he continues to tell her.

And he ignores your upset despite the fact that you have mad him aware of it, you have a romantic relationship together than is getting dinged, and you have co-parenting responsibilities together than need attending to. AND you are pregnant with a new baby. He's dropping all kinds of balls there with you.



I don't think you are overreacting. I would be bothered by this behavior too! It's expecting to have an actual PARTNER, and then trying to deal with a ghost who isn't there and isn't holding up his end of various sticks.

He's basically using the both of you. Nobody likes to be used. :(

During engagement time people are usually on their BEST behavior because they are trying to see if they are compatible long haul and really wanting to try to make a match. If this is his "best" he can offer you? It's a poor, poor offer. In your shoes I would be rethinking "fiance" and I might not want to go through with marrying him. Dealing with him as a disrespectful coparent sounds like it would be enough of a drag. :(

IME, when selfish people are asked to exercise some self control, demonstrate consideration for others, and/or meet responsibilities they don't want to meet? They have a tendency to "flip it around" and play the "blame game" like you are the one at fault. You are supposed to look the other way and let them slide. But you are "playing wrong" -- because you aren't looking the other way. So they flip it around and blame you for "not playing right."

If they succeed in getting you to defend yourself or make you mad or exhaust you with circular arguments and you give up talking to them about stepping up to meet their responsibilities and exercising self control? Then the spotlight is no longer on their poor behavior and they are off the hook.

Bottom line? He lied to her, he lied to you, and he continues to behave poorly toward you. You don't seem to like it. So you have to figure out what you want to do.

It's challenging enough to try to transition from a cheating start to some kind of poly model without him shirking his responsibilities to you and the babies on top of it.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

You cannot "let him" have his fling. You are not his parent. You also have NO CONTROL over his behavior. He is the one who controls his behavior. Right now it sounds like he is behaving poorly and does not choose to change that behavior. I think what he means when he says that you should "let him have his fling" is "I want to do whatever I want without having to listen to you tell me I am behaving poorly even if I am behaving poorly."

He might prefer you shut up, but you don't have to. You control YOUR behavior, YOUR boundaries, YOUR consent to participate in things or not.

You could restate your boundaries:

  • You could say you do not appreciate being lied to.
  • You could say you don't want to be mixed up in his shenanigans with the other woman

Then you figure out the consequences YOU can do are.

  • Maybe you decide you are NOT up for changing to a poly model with him and this woman so you tell him you are bowing out it
  • Maybe you decide on a trial separation. Wait and see if he comes to his sense or changes his behavior.
  • Maybe you decide to end the engagement right now and not bother to wait and see. Just not date him any more and only deal with childcare things.

You might also revise this belief:



because he does not seem to share that belief. It seems he thinks HE comes first.

So you might update your belief to be "In my head, my well being and the kids well being come first. Even if it means not being involved too tight with their father because he brings unhealthy drama into our lives."

Not fun, and I'm sorry you deal in a mess like this.

But if he's not going to work with you to work something out? Best that you accept he's not the reliable partner you were hoping for and accept he has no interested in being a partner to you in this family. He's out for only himself.

So change your definition of "family" to be just you and the kids. And you move on with sorting out your new life.

I do not suggest you say nothing and accept poor treatment from him. All that teaches him is that you will make some initial noise, but you will eventually pipe down. You are basically "ignorable" and "usable." And he can keep on doing whatever he wants whether it hurts you or not. :(

Might be a great arrangement for HIM, but I don't see how that is healthy or loving for YOU. :(

Galagirl
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I guess I should have mentioned that he really is an amazing partner and father. Several years of being together and this is the first time he's ever done something like this.

I did explain my feelings on the matter and why I was hurt. He recognized this and has made an effort to "fix" things. It's just that now that we've talked and cleared the air, he thinks that everything is magically better and we should move on. I don't know about y'all, but I can't just "move on" like that. I still feel cautious about trusting him 100% because it's only been a week!

When everything was coming out into the open, I did tell him that if he did not change his behavior I was more than willing to uproot everyone next summer and move back with my family (several states away). I refuse to be treated like less than an equal, and I would not allow my sons to grow up thinking that his behavior was normal or appropriate. While it may have been a bit extreme to actually use that kind of threat, I was very serious and he knew it.

As of now, he wants to continue his relationship with the other woman and "see where it goes". I'm not thrilled about it, and I've said so, but at the end of the day it's not a hill to die on from my point of view. I just want to make sure boundaries are set and that I am not pushing him away with my emotions/opinion of the relationship.
 
You say your relationship is amazing and he just got swept up in this, but something like this just doesn't come out of the blue. It sounds to me like you two were perhaps on different pages than you thought. The fact that he was willing to lie, to pretend you and your baby were not who you are...and lie to the other lady...and expect it all to be fixed after a week....

Errr...he doesn't sound like a very nice person. Actions speak louder than words...look at his actions towards you. What on earth would prompt him to lie like that, to deny who you are to him?

What about his current actions of thinking you should just get over it? I don't think he is who you think he is. Because if he was, he wouldn't have done what he did.

What do you need from him to actually make this better?
 
This whole situation is so out of character for him, it's hard to describe. There's a part of me that does want to just label him the bad guy and move on, but he isn't. He made a ridiculously stupid decision that got out of control and ended up hurting everyone. But he's a good guy.

In the end, I just need to be confident in our relationship. I need him to show me that he is committed to our family and that one mistake won't be the end.
 
Infinity said:
Why did he lie to each of you?
Click to expand...

He lied to her because it was easier than explaining everything. She's the "one that got away" in high-school and he wanted to have her back.

He lied to me because he knew I would throw a fit if she didn't know what was going on.
 
Infinity said:
You say your relationship is amazing and he just got swept up in this, but something like this just doesn't come out of the blue. It sounds to me like you two were perhaps on different pages than you thought. The fact that he was willing to lie, to pretend you and your baby were not who you are...and lie to the other lady...and expect it all to be fixed after a week....
Click to expand...

As always, there is a lot more going on here and Infinity is right; something like this does not just come out of the blue. Ever. People lie when they feel backed into a corner and are convinced that the truth is going to cost them a dreadful price, not because they are horrible people. The way out of messes like this isn't to assign and weigh blame, but for each to step back from fault finding and take responsibility. Nobody can just jump out of the bushes at you with a situation that you had no hand in creating. It may feel like it at first, but "out of the blue" just cannot happen.

There is a LOT more to this story.

I also wanted to mention that we see quite a few "poly" men come through here who suddenly need to explore outside relationships just as a baby is on the way in the family. I'm not sure what that is all about, but it's a thing.




RedLioness17 said:
I still feel hurt by this and honestly very threatened by his feelings for her. He admits to loving her and I can tell it's true....She's convinced that he's going to leave me and our kids to marry her. And he doesn't refute this at all. He doesn't agree with her, but he won't dissuade her.....This bothers me beyond belief. I love him and want him to be happy, but in my head our family comes first. When we discuss this, he tells me that I'm trying to control him and I need to "let him have his fling".
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Read what you wrote here again, RedLioness. My take on your feelings is that you are not OK with being poly at all, at least not right now, and given that you're eight month's pregnant, that's very understandable. Just because you've had an open relationship these years doesn't mean that you can't agree to close it up during times when the focus needs to be 100% on the family. This is definitely one of those times! Lots of poly people agree to close up during baby making and early childhood years - by far the most stressful, mind-blowing and challenging of many couples' lives together. I am sensing from your words in your OP that you're not as cool with poly as you've said that you are (or that you perhaps have been in the past.) Your husband senses this, despite your agreement that an open relationship is OK as long as there is "honesty." He is (perhaps) more sensitive to what is true about you right now more than he is a shit head and that's why he felt back into this lying corner.

So again, the way forward is not to assign blame to one another or worry that you're being "too controlling," but to understand the part that each of you has been playing in creating an impossible situation. Bringing a new life into the world and poly often do not mix well. Of course you need your husband to focus completely on the family right now. This is perfectly OK for you to need. The key is for you to get right with yourself about needing this and to take an honest look to see if there's any guilt or uneasiness in you about wanting his full attention right now. I rather imagine that you're worrying about the accusations of "controlling" him because you are not 100% OK with needing/wanting your man to be with only you right now. Focus more on what you are feeling about this and not so heavily on his "poor behavior." You'll find plenty of people who agree that he is "wrong" but that doesn't help you get to a better place in yourself. You've got some conflict in yourself about him being fully committed to you when you're most vulnerable. If you had zero internal conflict, your relationship would reflect that and there would be no issue.
 
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He recognized this and has made an effort to "fix" things. It's just that now that we've talked and cleared the air, he thinks that everything is magically better and we should move on. I don't know about y'all, but I can't just "move on" like that. I still feel cautious about trusting him 100% because it's only been a week!
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Of course! Healing takes TIME. Expecting you to be over in it a moment is unrealistic. Has he done all the steps? Have you?

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

When everything was coming out into the open, I did tell him that if he did not change his behavior I was more than willing to uproot everyone next summer and move back with my family (several states away). I refuse to be treated like less than an equal, and I would not allow my sons to grow up thinking that his behavior was normal or appropriate. While it may have been a bit extreme to actually use that kind of threat, I was very serious and he knew it.
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That is not a threat.

That is stating what you will and will not put up with. Did he change his behavior at your request? Not so much. And he doesn't have to. He is free to say "Yes, I will do that" or "No, I will not do that."

Then you get to decide your next choice. You are both free to choose what you do.

As of now, he wants to continue his relationship with the other woman and "see where it goes". I'm not thrilled about it, and I've said so, but at the end of the day it's not a hill to die on from my point of view.
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You are correct. Not a hill to die on. You simply decide if you want to be in this network or you do not.

I just want to make sure boundaries are set and that I am not pushing him away with my emotions/opinion of the relationship
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What are the boundaries? So far it sounds like treating you with respect is one of them. And him showing you that he is committed to your family is another.

But when he expects you to get over it in a week, and he will not reassure you in the way you need reassuring, and when he allows his new GF to talk like she's going to rope him off and he doesn't correct her... he's not meeting the boundaries. He is not being respectful toward you or showing commitment to the family.

In the end, I just need to be confident in our relationship. I need him to show me that he is committed to our family and that one mistake won't be the end.
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You are not confident in the relationship at this time.

He is not showing that he is committed to the family.

He may have behaved like an amazing/great guy in the past, but in the present moment, his behavior is less than amazing and great. :(

The choices I can see are

  • Give him more time to get it together and wait there with him
  • Give him more time to get it together, but don't wait there with him. Go home to your family.
  • No more time given. You end it now.
  • Something else I cannot think of.

I get that this is hard to feel right now, and it has only been a week. But if you can step away from the emotions a bit -- it isn't a hill to die on. Don't sacrifice your happiness and well being just to stay in his orbit.

If this new situation does not meet your needs? You have every right to withdraw your participation and no longer consent to be here.

That is not threatening him. That is taking care of YOU.

Galagirl
 
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When a person breaks your trust in them, an apology is not enough to rebuild that trust. He needs to make amends, which means actively working towards becoming trustworthy again.

So, I recommend you figure out what he would need to do to prove his trustworthiness, and then tell him that is what you need to feel like you've got a partner you can trust again. You might also want to show him this thread.
 
What bothers me most about this situation is that the other woman STILL actually hasn't got the "Whole Truth". Your husband may have told her, but she doesn't seem to have heard it anyway. She doesn't seem to get poly and expects him to leave you for her, even though he seems to deny it.

I may be picky, but I wouldn't be comfortable with my partner getting into such a relationship. With something as important as a relationship, merely considering polyamory as stated because it was said, regardless of whether the partner understood may technically be correct, but it is misleading anyway, because she simply doesn't seem to be capable of understanding even when told.

In such a situation, if my partner were to engage with a woman who expects him to leave me - whether he plans it or not - in my view would count as still not entering a relationship with honesty. The question would always remain in my mind who he is being dishonest with. Her or me.

This is me being finicky about ethics.

On a level of ego, I would definitely not want a partner who wants to get close to someone who sees me as disposable. No matter how hot he is for her. The idea of the girl who "got away" sees women as conquests. To be pursued when opportunity presents regardless of whether the situation allows for it - namely her not being okay with your relationship with him, you being pregnant and needing him, blah blah whatever. In your place, I'd definitely not be okay with this. For that matter, she is headed for heartbreak too, if she discovers at the end of the day that he acted as he said and not as she imagined.
 
Hi RedLioness17,

My impression is that you mostly just need some time to recover. More than one week, obviously.

What about your fiancé? Do you want to "let him have his fling?"

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
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