New and struggling

[BBMUF]

Hi.

So I've been struggling with the idea that I might be poly for about 4 or 5 years now and finally something happened which confirmed it for me.

Although I appreciate the open sex/relationship aspects, I'm pretty sure that's not what poly is to me.

I just happen to be capable of being in love with more than one person at once and see sex as something completely separate to that.

I guess the bit I struggle with most at the moment (and led me on a search which led me here) is how do I know I'm really poly and not just an awful person?

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

The short answer to that is because you're willing to give your partner space to have multiple loving relationships too.

I mean of course you'd have considered that part of it.. right?

 

[BBMUF]

Yes, of course.

She's very mono minded though. I broached the subject of me possibly being polyamory about 4 years ago and she was extremely upset. That I didn't see an issue with her being with others actually made it worse.

It's come to a head again recently though and we discussed the polyamory thing again.

She's actually pretty awesome, she says that she doesn't think she would ever be happy in a relationship with someone like that because, in a monogamous relationship when your partner goes off with someone else, there's an issue with the relationship. In a poly relationship, nothing is broken to fix, you just love someone else.

But she also said she doesn't want me to have to suppress part of who I am or my sexuality just to keep her, and I guess I've already tried that and it really doesn't work for me.

Controlling behaviour is difficult but far from impossible. Controlling how you feel is infinitely more difficult.

I feel awful because I'm putting someone I love very much through this.

(Sorry, I should have had a more detailed intro).

 

[Magdlyn]

I've been struggling with the idea that I might be poly for about 4 or 5 years now, and finally something happened which confirmed it for me.

What happened? Have you "fallen in love" with someone other than your current partner, or gotten a crush? Lots of normal people get crushes on others, even if they are already partnered. There are lots of attractive people in the world, after all.

Although I appreciate the open sex/relationship aspects, I'm pretty sure that's not what poly is to me. I just happen to be capable of being in love with more than one person at once, and see sex as something completely separate to that.

While it is true love and sex are 2 different things, they often or usually go hand in hand, for adults. Do you desire another relationship? Do you also sexually desire this crush person?

I guess the bit I struggle with most at the moment (and led me on a search which led me here) is how do I know I'm really poly and not just an awful person?

In our culture we are quite often labelled as "evil" if we get crushes and have fantasies about others. But our biology is set up that way. And the current 50% divorce rate and all the "cheating" that goes on proves that. It's not awful, it just is.

Get a hold of a copy of Sex at Dawn. It is a socio-anthropological book which clearly shows that humans are wired to be promiscuous. It's only patriarchal culture and certain religions that have imposed monogamy on us.

The short answer to that is because you're willing to give your partner space to have multiple loving relationships too. I mean of course you'd have considered that part of it, right?

That is an extremely short answer, and not very helpful.

Yes, of course. She's very mono minded, though. I broached the subject of me possibly being polyamorous about 4 years ago and she was extremely upset. That I didn't see an issue with her being with others actually made it worse.

It's come to a head again recently though and we discussed the polyamory thing again. She's actually pretty awesome, she says that she doesn't think she would ever be happy in a relationship with someone like that, because, in a monogamous relationship when your partner goes off with someone else, there's an issue with the relationship. In a poly relationship, nothing is broken to fix, you just love someone else.

But she also said she doesn't want me to have to suppress part of who I am or my sexuality just to keep her.

I guess I've already tried that, and it really doesn't work for me.

It's great that your mono partner was able to articulate that so well. Some people want to be in a poly, or mono/poly relationship, and some don't. Key is finding people to date who are fine with a poly partner. Life is too long to not be authentic. We have choices now.

Controlling behaviour is difficult but far from impossible. Controlling how you feel is infinitely more difficult.

I feel awful because I'm putting someone I love very much through this.

It is sad when you realize you're incompatible with a partner after several years of investment.

 

[BBMUF]

Thanks so much for your response.

What happened? Have you "fallen in love" with someone other than your current partner, or gotten a crush? Lots of normal people get crushes on others, even if they are already partnered. There are lots of attractive people in the world, after all.

Yes. It happened gradually over the last few years. I ignored it because I'm in a relationship and she had never shown any indication of interest. Until she did and we were both very surprised that she could feel that way about me. She's mono too so that's an extra complication.

This isn't the first time I've been in love with more than one person at once though.

While it is true love and sex are 2 different things, they often or usually go hand in hand, for adults. Do you desire another relationship? Do you also sexually desire this crush person?

Yes but as part of the whole rather than as the objective if that makes sense?

In our culture we are quite often labelled as "evil" if we get crushes and have fantasies about others. But our biology is set up that way. And the current 50% divorce rate and all the "cheating" that goes on proves that. It's not awful, it just is.

Get a hold of a copy of Sex at Dawn. It is a socio-anthropological book which clearly shows that humans are wired to be promiscuous. It's only patriarchal culture and certain religions that have imposed monogamy on us.

I loved that book. My friend bought me a copy when I first raised it 4 or 5 years ago. I understand, anthropologically, why it's normal, however it also feels like in the current world I'm destined to a series of failed monogamous relationship where loving too much is an issue.

That is an extremely short answer, and not very helpful.

Perhaps but it does speak to the issue with polyamory in general, where some people use it to just do whatever the hell they want while expecting different behaviours in others.

It's great that your mono partner was able to articulate that so well. Some people want to be in a poly, or mono/poly relationship, and some don't. Key is finding people to date who are fine with a poly partner. Life is too long to not be authentic. We have choices now.

She has friends who are poly. I think she understands this all better than I do, which is part of the reason she was so upset the first time round - she appreciated the gravity of it all and I didn't.

It is sad when you realize you're incompatible with a partner after several years of investment.

Is it really that final though? We're incompatible and that's the end of it?

The idea of losing two people I'm very much in love with because I'm polyamorous and they're not is incredibly unfair - I know, life isn't fair and it may seem naive but the prospect of losing one was bad enough.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings BBMUF,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I promise, you are not an awful person, you're really poly and that is okay. You just need your mono partner to accept your polyness, it may take awhile, but if you keep talking to her about it from time to time, she may eventually come around. It could take a year.

Poly does not always mean sex. It does usually mean romance. If you are in love with someone besides your partner, you are polyamorous. It is okay to be polyamorous.

Hopefully the posts you have received have been helpful so far. Keep reading and posting.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Yes a good number of people have thought all about how they'd be brilliant at having multiple partners but never considered that their partner is entitled to the same. Especially when sexual incompatibility (be it frequency or kink) fuels a good part of the desire.

People ask why the other person should be allowed the liberty to have other partners when it is them who has the lower sex drive or willingness to explore a specific kink or kinky sex in general. They never consider that they may want another partner where sex isn't something that happens frequently or they keep it vanilla or explore other kinks together.

My first question to anyone exploring polyamory is whether they've got their head around their partner having other partners because to me, that's the tricky bit.

 

[Al99]

My first question to anyone exploring polyamory is whether they've got their head around their partner having other partners because to me, that's the tricky bit.

Yep. I've heard it said that one is not really polyamorous unless they can find joy in the joy that their partners experience with their other partners (i.e., compersion).

I would actually alter that to say that one is not really "practicing ethical polyamory"...... And, that is because there is a strong argument to be made that everyone is poly at some level - that is - everyone experiences or has the capacity to experience romantic attraction to more that one person at some points in their life. I would guess that almost every adult in modern western civilization has experienced that at some time in their life - certainly sexual attraction to more than one if not actual romantic attraction. It is the human condition - so, no, you are not an awful person for having these feelings, only human.

The key issue in practice, however, is whether one acts on these feelings and engages in more than one romantic/sexual relation at the same time. Polyamorists make the choice to do so - monogamists make the choice not to. Neither is right or wrong - although poly may be more natural, and a strong orientation for monogamy is most likely almost always a matter of cultural conditioning. Polyamory is better thought of as a practice or lifestyle choice rather than as orientation - since virtually everyone experiences multiple romantic attractions at some point. (Mentioned in this thread already - "Sex at Dawn" is an excellent resource on this subject).

Having said this, in marrying your wife you most likely established a contract for monogamy with her (most people marry with the expectation of monogamy). And while you can certainly renegotiate that contract if you are both willing (and it sounds like you are in that process perhaps), she is under no obligation to do so. And, if she refuses, you obviously have the choice to terminate the contract, be content to remain a practicing monogamist (even if not in spirit), or go the unethical route and cheat.

I would suggest that although you say that she is very mono, that you encourage her to date as well (and it is a well established truism that poly women have a much easier time finding dates than poly men) - it will make it much easier for her to come to terms with poly, rather than just trying to find a way to be "ok" with you having another partner. And, who knows - once she thinks about what it would be like for *her* to have another partner, she might give it stronger consideration.

And - welcome to the Forum!

Al

 

[BBMUF]

Thanks for the welcome and all the helpful comments.

I feel slightly better already and will revisit Sex At Dawn.

I was also recommended The Ethical Slut, I haven't read it as it seemed more sex oriented than love/relationship oriented.

Any other resources I am open to suggestions?

 

[Magdlyn]

It happened gradually over the last few years. I ignored it, because I'm in a relationship and she had never shown any indication of interest. Until she did. And then we were both very surprised that she could feel that way about me. She's mono too, so that's an extra complication.

This isn't the first time I've been in love with more than one person at once though.

Of course it's wrong to be expressing "I love yous" to another person while you're both in supposedly mono relationships. But in our current culture, we often do this while feeling guilt, anyway.

Happily, this is, very slowly, changing, in all age groups. Even senior citizens, especially women, do not want to be tied down to living with one other person for the rest of their lives. But it's not easy being a pioneer in this revolution of how to love.


Sex?

Yes but as part of the whole rather than as the objective, if that makes sense?

That makes sense on this board. Personally, I have known about polyamory since 1999 when The Ethical Slut first came out. I've been practicing it successfully since 2008.

Swinging is well known and (kinda) accepted, and while it is under the same umbrella of consensual non-monogamy, it's actually usually very different. There the objective is sex with no feelings allowed. In polyamory, it's many lovers who all consent to being in this kind of relationship, usually but not always, with sex on the table.

I loved that book. My friend bought me a copy when I first raised it 4 or 5 years ago. I understand, anthropologically, why it's normal, however it also feels like in the current world I'm destined to a series of failed monogamous relationship where loving too much is an issue.

Why do you feel "destined" to have to live that way?

She has friends who are poly. I think she understands this all better than I do, which is part of the reason she was so upset the first time round - she appreciated the gravity of it all and I didn't.



Is it really that final though? We're incompatible and that's the end of it?

I can't answer that. That's what you will find out. You can't coerce her. If she really doesn't want to date a poly person, it's cruel to her to coerce her. And it's cruel to yourself to bend into a pretzel to accommodate her wishes.

The idea of losing two people I'm very much in love with because I'm polyamorous and they're not seems incredibly unfair. I know, life isn't fair and it may seem naive, but the prospect of losing one was bad enough.

I'm sorry you're suffering.

We can be attracted wherever our heart takes us, but we have to choose people who are willing and ABLE to date us in the way we need. That is why dating is so hard. Believe me, I know.

 

[Al99]

Any other resources I am open to suggestions?

Here's a link to a list that I put together of some of the best poly web sites.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108191

Books -

The Ethical Slut is a classic poly text and the latest edition is somewhat more poly/relationship oriented than earlier versions - which did often seem more about poly-sexuality. Nevertheless, a worthwhile read at some point for the well read polyamorist. But probably not the first one that you should read.

Many of us here recommend Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships by Tristan Taormino as the best introductory book for poly. (Available in hard copy or digital at Amazon et al).

Next, especially if you decide to move forward with poly as a lifestyle, I would recommend Cunning Minx's Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory: Before I Tried It and Frakked It Up. Relatively short, entertaining, and informative read for those moving into the poly lifestyle. Minx's podcast/website is included in the list linked above.

If - and only if - you pursue the poly lifestyle in earnest, you should read Veux's "More Than Two". I personally find it overly long, verbose, ponderous, and opinionated. Nevertheless, it is considered by many to be the definitive text on poly ethics and relationships. It is worthwhile alone just for the "food for thought" and discussion points that it raises - and, despite its not insignificant flaws, a must read for the committed polyamorist. Also, Veaux does have an excellent website for those new to poly - also included in the list linked above (Morethantwo.com).

That should get you started. Do also check out the many free poly podcasts on Minx's site as well as the multiamory.com site.

Al

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks for the welcome and all the helpful comments.

I feel slightly better already and will revisit Sex At Dawn.

I was also recommended The Ethical Slut, I haven't read it as it seemed more sex oriented than love/relationship oriented.

Any other resources I am open to suggestions?

I mentioned having read The Ethical Slut. It was the first poly book, but it's not the best. In fact, I found it more disturbing than truly helpful.

A much better newer book is Opening Up.

As a woman, I'd say that we get more offers for dates, on say, OK Cupid. But having been on there for about 10 years, I had very few really successful relationships with men (or women) who understood polyamory. It's not a wonderland out there for women.

If your wife is really appalled by the idea of polyamory for herself, encouraging her to date might backfire. If she's not drawn to it, you need to respect that. She might be approached by a bunch of creepy guys who are looking for a cheap fuck with an "easy" woman. And then she'd be even more opposed to "polyamory" for herself.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Yep. I've heard it said that one is not really polyamorous unless they can find joy in the joy that their partners experience with their other partners (i.e., compersion).

I would actually alter that to say that one is not really "practicing ethical polyamory"...... And, that is because there is a strong argument to be made that everyone is poly at some level - that is - everyone experiences or has the capacity to experience romantic attraction to more that one person at some points in their life. I would guess that almost every adult in modern western civilization has experienced that at some time in their life - certainly sexual attraction to more than one if not actual romantic attraction. It is the human condition - so, no, you are not an awful person for having these feelings, only human.

The key issue in practice, however, is whether one acts on these feelings and engages in more than one romantic/sexual relation at the same time. Polyamorists make the choice to do so - monogamists make the choice not to. Neither is right or wrong - although poly may be more natural, and a strong orientation for monogamy is most likely almost always a matter of cultural conditioning. Polyamory is better thought of as a practice or lifestyle choice rather than as orientation - since virtually everyone experiences multiple romantic attractions at some point. (Mentioned in this thread already - "Sex at Dawn" is an excellent resource on this subject).

Having said this, in marrying your wife you most likely established a contract for monogamy with her (most people marry with the expectation of monogamy). And while you can certainly renegotiate that contract if you are both willing (and it sounds like you are in that process perhaps), she is under no obligation to do so. And, if she refuses, you obviously have the choice to terminate the contract, be content to remain a practicing monogamist (even if not in spirit), or go the unethical route and cheat.

I would suggest that although you say that she is very mono, that you encourage her to date as well (and it is a well established truism that poly women have a much easier time finding dates than poly men) - it will make it much easier for her to come to terms with poly, rather than just trying to find a way to be "ok" with you having another partner. And, who knows - once she thinks about what it would be like for *her* to have another partner, she might give it stronger consideration.

And - welcome to the Forum!

Al

Find joy? No. That isnt a necessity by any means. However, I'd say that acknowledging how you'll feel about that and taking steps to prevent yourself obstructing your partner having other relationships is a necessity if you want to do this thing with integrity.

The rest I agree with.

 

[Al99]

I wrote:

Yep. I've heard it said that one is not really polyamorous unless they can find joy in the joy that their partners experience with their other partners (i.e., compersion)

SeasonedolyAgain replied:

Find joy? No. That isn't a necessity by any means. However, I'd say that acknowledging how you'll feel about that and taking steps to prevent yourself obstructing your partner having other relationships is a necessity if you want to do this thing with integrity.

I was actually just quoting/paraphrasing something that I had heard early on in my poly adventure - probably from one of Minx's podcasts. I don't remember the exact wording - it might have been more like "that one is not really polyamorous unless they can be happy ...." ("happy" instead of "joy") - but the point remains the same. But, in reality, I agree this may not always be completely possible - although it perhaps may remain a lofty goal in general terms, even if not for each particular situation. I've been lucky enough to reach that point in my feelings about my wife's relationship with her boyfriend - but, then again, that didn't happen overnight.

But SeasonedpolyAgain does make an excellent point - that even if you don't find joy or happiness from your partner's situation, you still have to do the work to not obstruct their relationship - if one is to be ethical in their polyamorous relationship.

I think the important issue is that for those individuals in a committed mono relationship who believe they would like to open their relationship and transition to polyamory because they feel that is who they are - that careful thought should be given about how one really feels about their long term partner also having new partners. I suspect most would find that to be the more difficult part of the equation. (It was for my wife - who asked me to open our marriage so she could ethically explore her resurgent feelings for an old college boyfriend, but then later really struggled when I also began a new relationship).

Al

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I wrote:


SeasonedolyAgain replied:



I was actually just quoting/paraphrasing something that I had heard early on in my poly adventure - probably from one of Minx's podcasts. I don't remember the exact wording - it might have been more like "that one is not really polyamorous unless they can be happy ...." ("happy" instead of "joy") - but the point remains the same. But, in reality, I agree this may not always be completely possible - although it perhaps may remain a lofty goal in general terms, even if not for each particular situation. I've been lucky enough to reach that point in my feelings about my wife's relationship with her boyfriend - but, then again, that didn't happen overnight.

But SeasonedpolyAgain does make an excellent point - that even if you don't find joy or happiness from your partner's situation, you still have to do the work to not obstruct their relationship - if one is to be ethical in their polyamorous relationship.

I think the important issue is that for those individuals in a committed mono relationship who believe they would like to open their relationship and transition to polyamory because they feel that is who they are - that careful thought should be given about how one really feels about their long term partner also having new partners. I suspect most would find that to be the more difficult part of the equation. (It was for my wife - who asked me to open our marriage so she could ethically explore her resurgent feelings for an old college boyfriend, but then later really struggled when I also began a new relationship).

Al

Yes some people do think compersion is a necessary for one to qualify as poly.

 

[Magdlyn]

Just a note that this thread has gone way off topic. It's not a problem for the OP to contemplate his wife having other partners. She doesn't even want other partners. If this is so important to you guys, maybe you should start a thread about compersion.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Actually the thread deviated when you butted in and called my topic unhelpful because you disagreed with it,Magdyln. Maybe next time offer your perspective without commenting on other people's posts and there'll be no issues, eh?


Many if not most initially mono partners do explore dating other people at some point. Even just joining a dating site. A good amount decide they are happier mono, and some continue dating. It is often a surprising point of anxiety for the poly partner when their mono partner decides to explore. It is worth thinking about for sure.

I stand by my original comment that the way you handle your partner(s) dating other people is the best way to judge their ability to have healthy poly relationships.

 

[Al99]

Many if not most initially mono partners do explore dating other people at some point. Even just joining a dating site. A good amount decide they are happier mono, and some continue dating. It is often a surprising point of anxiety for the poly partner when their mono partner decides to explore. It is worth thinking about for sure.

I stand by my original comment that the way you handle your partner(s) dating other people is the best way to judge their ability to have healthy poly relationships.

I think this is the point - and well said. The OP has said that he has an interest in ethical multiple relationships - but that his wife does not. I would just suggest, as SeasonedpolyAgain mentions above, that could easily change. Watching your spouse have an additional relationship would easily prove for many, I suspect, to be a strong motivation to explore the idea of having an additional partner themselves - even if initially not so inclined (and whether there is any encouragement or not). This is exactly what happened to me. I initially had no desire to open our marriage when she requested that we do so - and when I agreed, I had no expectation of having another partner myself. However, it did not take long for me to become open to that idea - and eventually come to have partners myself (and, as I mentioned before, my wife struggled with that - because she was only focused on her own additional relationship and had given no thought as to how she would handle me having additional relationships - although she did ultimately adjust).

So, regardless of his wife's initial statement, the OP would probably be wise to give some thought to his own feelings about her eventually having another partner. I think it is really important for anyone who wants to open their marriage to give this topic some very serious thought.

Al

 

[Magdlyn]

OK, guys. I see you're determined to not believe the OP when he said early on:

She's very mono minded though. I broached the subject of me possibly being polyamorous about 4 years ago and she was extremely upset. That I didn't see an issue with her being with others actually made it worse.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

No. Nobody is ignoring that. At least I am not and fro. What A199 is saying, they aren't either. For me, that is side information that the partner is currently monogamous and actually only part of the reason I would say considering the shoe on the other foot is wise. The other thing it does is inspire empathy in the now poly person. It can be easy to have NRE with polyamory and that makes you an asshole most of the time. You know the types that start the "poly is more evolved" threads?

In a mono/poly relationship, that poly person lacks compassion for their mono partner, ignores the fact that opening a relationship is quite different to starting a poly relationship from the outset and generally becomes a shitty partner to the mono person. They are so critical of the mono partner's shortcomings as a "good at poly" person because they've never actually tried it. They've never experienced that unexpected pang of jealousy or the reality of having 1 partner while that person has 3 great relationships and you haven't got that for whatever reason.

This actually reminds me, the person I've seen argue most vehemently that compersion is a necessity was a guy with a harem and a strict OPP. The irony!