New here. in search of relationship commonalities

S

speghettifriendly

New member
Hello all, I am a desert person, married 3 years, but relationship 15 years. Started out rather oddly and I have many questions and I hope I can find people who can maybe relate without any judging or criticizing, course, some criticism is necassary is welcomed but you know
 
Thanks everyone. Well, for starters, I am married , as stated earlier, but not happy, but ummm, happy....in a way. In a way that my wife when it comes to caring for our kids, for me, is what you'd want out of any spouse.

We started off as an "ooopsy" meaning, we met a couple times, me being early 20's hormones being the typical male and will screw anything. Her as your run of the mill girl with daddy issues, loner, nerdy, not popular, but smart but not bright. Met at party she threw, ....and well that happened. Ended up with a child and so started this weird relationship. Years gone, nothings perfect, not married, had another child, pretty much co habitating to the common law realm, till finally married in 2012. We had through out the years tried swinging, pfft (just a few times) but it was more of a conditional thing, more to make me happy but really, it was pick and choose on her part. Had one more child as of this year, sex life is moot now and rightfully so since she is very conscientious of herself and I respect that and understand. My hormones or sex drive has been flying off the wall lately. ..

This is very long but to try and make this short, I think out of pity and out of love for my first child then another, I stuck it out with her despite her having a fatal attraction on me. I know I made the mistake of sleeping with her but hell, I am a guy, but now cursed because of it. Not cursed but reaped what I sow kinda speak. I even told her as well that I dont mind, if she found or ran into a hookup "by mistake" and that I hope if she did she would learn something (more like learn how to have sex as she to this day makes love or f***'s like a newb ugh) not to make it sound bad but come on, before, i felt like I was having my way with some virgin girl who was afraid to have an orgasm let alone have sex at all.

We have talked about the whole poly thing, even last year , she had brought up about me going about hooking up but just as long as I come back home, or I dont knock anyone up, and I dont have some kind of long term relationship with them. I was not expecting her to out of the blue say such. I was elated in a way, as if a weight lifted off my chest. Even felt guilty about her even offering. I still to this day have not hooked up lol, I almost did with a friend, which originaly was supposed to be a musical hookup thing but started to head into the more sexual 4 play thing. It didnt happen that way, though it was very tempting but because we are or were freinds and I needed a female singer for a project, I wanted to lay it down on the table with her that I am married and I wanted to keep it professional. But texting and flirting back n forth with her led me to compliment her too much to where my wife saw the text on facebook she supposedly stumbled onto because it was "open" and I was not logged out pfft. I was not really attracted to my friend that much, but because the potential of getting naked and frolicking was really enticing. Plus we both shared a kind of common issue plagued by being abused some way or another so I could relate to her.

I have explained to my wife, as a guy, I am very sensual(i sound like a woman) , in that, just the very act of caressing another naked body , even without actual you know, is enough for me. Its not about bagging as many women as possible, to me, its just being with a total stranger, or being with another different woman, feeling the skin on skin, etc. To her, I guess in her mind, its all about losing me to someone else. Thats just it. The woman doesnt have to have a perfect body. Nothing else. But I think she gets some jealousy but its been more the thought of me starting a relationship with another, which I understand. I told her I'd have equal if not more jealousy for her because she's the one opening her legs, and has more to grab onto. Plus, which I thinnk every guy has the issue , is the fact because for women to get laid is easier for them. Its an ego issue lol.
The thing she doesnt understand is that what we've been though over the years,we are tainted and damaged from the get go. Its as if she lives in some imaginary world where everything is perfect between us , like some movie. Her whole personality basically falls into the Borderline Personality Disorder, and granted I think we are all broken due to some circumstance or another, I am not exempt from that which I will get to later.
 
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Greetings speghettifriendly,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like you are in a less-than-perfect marriage, but your wife doesn't mind if you have sex with other women as long as you don't develop relationships with them. This is fine as long as it is okay with you, and as long as you give due notice to the women you see.

Let us know if you have any questions.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Do you plan to have any more children ever? I would advise against it. Sounds like you have three kids with a woman that you've never really been madly in love with, though she plays the domestic role pretty darn well, and now she's ok with you getting some side action as long as nothing serious develops.

How do you think something serious might develop? Well if you get a girl pregnant...

I strongly advise you to seek and get a vasectomy.

And if you feel squicky about the idea, you need to get over yourself. I'm not even joking. I know half a dozen men who have had them, including my Dad, my ex husband, and several close friends. The procedure and recovery is not a big deal, the pain is minimal and nearly always gone within a few days, and it doesn't make you less masculine or mess with your sex drive.

You need to take ownership of the whole fathering children thing. And make sure it won't happen again. Unless you intend to deliberately make it happen again, which I don't think is a good idea.

And then you still need to use protection so you don't catch a disease and bring it home to your wife. But do not rely on condoms to protect you from pregnancy. That can be managed better, and you ought to.

I do not understand how you're saying you'd be more jealous because she'd be the one spreading her legs and more to grab onto. Sex is sex dude. Sure, she might have an easier time getting a casual sex partner, if she wants one. But trust me, women don't have it easy just because we can get what YOU want more easily than you can...because what you want might not be what she wants. She'd have her own challenges, I promise you. It's a human thing, dating, mating, courting and sex, and it's got human challenges. You seem very dismissive of her. It's no wonder she isn't giving you a good sexual experience, in my opinion. She probably doesn't feel like it, isn't that turned on, and doesn't really want to be vulnerable and adventurous with you.

Look at it this way man. Imagine a woman meets a guy, and she figures he's pretty stable, makes a decent living, and would father healthy kids. They get the house in the suburbs and he's working and providing, and they've got the whole white picket fence. And then she gets bored with him and starts bangin' some bad boy because hey...the sex is lame. Life isn't exciting. I would ask you to think what people would think about the tables turned on that one. You are lucky that your wife doesn't mind you seeking satisfaction elsewhere, you could speak a bit more kindly of her.
 
Yep, at first I thought I revealed too much, maybe I didnt reveal enough info. But to some either way isnt enough. But i guess as it may be, opinions are opinions and Spork, I have thought all the above left and right, up and down. What youve said isnt new. And as with all people, no one knows the real situation as well as you dont, although, it can be looked at differently. This is how I feel. And I havent disclosed everything but you sound a bit offended, which is interesting givin the type of forum. Like I said earlier, I am aware, I have looked at things from both sides, though it has to be totally different from woman pov. And yeah, I was expecting some high and mighty responses. I just dont jump to conclusions when I read others posts. Perhaps I joined the wrong forum or idea.
 
speghettifriendly said:
Yep, at first I thought I revealed too much, maybe I didnt reveal enough info. But to some either way isnt enough. But i guess as it may be, opinions are opinions and Spork, I have thought all the above left and right, up and down. What youve said isnt new. And as with all people, no one knows the real situation as well as you dont, although, it can be looked at differently. This is how I feel. And I havent disclosed everything but you sound a bit offended, which is interesting givin the type of forum. Like I said earlier, I am aware, I have looked at things from both sides, though it has to be totally different from woman pov. And yeah, I was expecting some high and mighty responses. I just dont jump to conclusions when I read others posts. Perhaps I joined the wrong forum or idea.
Click to expand...

Think of this whole thing as an object with many sides. You have looked at this side and at that one. I am trying to turn it another direction and show you a different side. It may not be a pretty side.

I'm not calling you any sort of a bad person. But some of the words you used to describe your wife and her sexuality did make me raise an eyebrow.

I was serious about the vasectomy thing. Very, very serious. It frustrates me that a lot of men won't consider it. Please consider it, unless you do intend to have more children. I'll say no more on that subject.

And yes, I speak from my place and not your place. My place is where I was married to a man for 18 years and even though I worked my butt off and sacrificed my life to care for his family, I was not in love with him. In fact I felt disrespected by him, and I did not respect him either. And so I had no interest in putting much energy into our sex life. And he came to the conclusion that there was nothing inside of me that wanted to enjoy sex. I had a low drive, I had not a romantic bone in my body, I didn't care about sex, it was not a priority.

The truth is, because I knew that he didn't respect me, I didn't give him access to my fantasies or my real sexuality. That door was shut to him. I was not interested in exploring or learning or trying anything. I put up with sex with him.

And then it ended, and I became poly, had for a year four relationships, joined a BDSM community as a masochist and exhibitionist and bottom, and ended up with a Sadist having amazing sex that is never the same exact experience twice, for hours and hours at least once if not twice a week as often as our schedules permit, and I crave his love and his touch and his time. And you tell me now who does not have a libido?

My ex husband was younger, had larger plumbing and at this point makes quite a bit more money. Nothing on heaven or earth could persuade me to let him touch me ever again. Not like that. It had nothing to do with skills, with stamina. It had to do with how I saw him. As a person I couldn't trust with my own true self.

So maybe she could be more, just not with you. You don't know. She probably doesn't know either. I didn't know until I left my ex.

But you assume she's just bad in bed, and pfft pff dismissive noises and talk about her having her pick of guys and stuff like that. Those were your words, I didn't make 'em up. Ya'll might be able to open up and make that work, but I'm suggesting you maybe be a little nicer in how you think about her, if that post was any indication. That's all.
 
For what it's worth though, I often say, I am not ashamed at all to sometimes be wrong. I'm as human as anybody. So if something that I say is food for thought, then cool. If not, please do disregard it.

Either way, you are definitely welcome here! And I hope that you and those in your life do succeed in finding happiness.
 
Good point

Yes I have to agree it's a nice place here friendly!😎👍
 
Hmm, well you still do not know the full skinny on my situation but rather your opinion sounds to be generated by bitterness. From the sounds of it, like you , I dont know your full personal issue, which is your own business, actually for some odd reason I feel if I knew you in person I would probably like you.

anyways

You see, I love my wife, but this love is much different than the typical lust we feel in the beginning of a relationship. And to her , I dont know what kind of a love she has for me, I know in the beginning it was probably a more infatuation, but then again, who has not felt that way from any start of a relationship. There was never any lust, except for horniness sorta speak, to put it in layman's terms to explain. But because of this first encounter, it was to be the first and only for her, as I had explained earlier, a "fatal attraction" , something you prolly never experienced, or if you have , then forgive me for being wrong.

There are more reasons I feel this way and joined this forum, or I am leaning toward this life style. But I apologize to everyone if this thread sounds more of a plight for some marital or relationship counseling rather than an introduction. I am not trying to find excuse in how I feel but because of taboos and the social norm of marriage, I feel almost alienated to even feeling this way. Here ("here" meaning, where I live) if I talked to someone other than a counselor , I'd be scorned with the letter A branded on my head. Everyone is so quick to judge and ridicule because they are married, yet, these same people go about looking and sounding miserable than ever with their relationships. People can be so hypocritical and quick to point the finger.

a little short, but when I have more time I will follow up.
 
speghettifriendly said:
Hmm, well you still do not know the full skinny on my situation but rather your opinion sounds to be generated by bitterness. From the sounds of it, like you , I dont know your full personal issue, which is your own business, actually for some odd reason I feel if I knew you in person I would probably like you.

anyways

You see, I love my wife, but this love is much different than the typical lust we feel in the beginning of a relationship. And to her , I dont know what kind of a love she has for me, I know in the beginning it was probably a more infatuation, but then again, who has not felt that way from any start of a relationship. There was never any lust, except for horniness sorta speak, to put it in layman's terms to explain. But because of this first encounter, it was to be the first and only for her, as I had explained earlier, a "fatal attraction" , something you prolly never experienced, or if you have , then forgive me for being wrong.

There are more reasons I feel this way and joined this forum, or I am leaning toward this life style. But I apologize to everyone if this thread sounds more of a plight for some marital or relationship counseling rather than an introduction. I am not trying to find excuse in how I feel but because of taboos and the social norm of marriage, I feel almost alienated to even feeling this way. Here ("here" meaning, where I live) if I talked to someone other than a counselor , I'd be scorned with the letter A branded on my head. Everyone is so quick to judge and ridicule because they are married, yet, these same people go about looking and sounding miserable than ever with their relationships. People can be so hypocritical and quick to point the finger.

a little short, but when I have more time I will follow up.
Click to expand...

I spoke to the things you said, pointed out specifically what I was replying to, and OF COURSE I don't know your life story. Unlike me, you have not provided it. And OF COURSE you don't know mine either. Unless you've been on the Life Stories and Blogs section and read it. Not that I advise you to, because it's rather long and won't likely help you, unless you really need something to occupy your mind while in the bathroom.

I do not like or dislike you. I don't know you. I'm not here to condemn you. I did however wish to make the point that your initial posts sounded a little harsh towards your wife. And also to point out that it's one of the cardinal observations you'll get from the overall poly community (which I've been part of here, and in real life with loads of polyfolk in my area)...that "relationship broken, add more people" is not a good philosophy. So when someone comes along and indicates that they are interested in poly because of problems A, B, C and D in their marriage, where they are not getting their needs met... Poly doesn't do very well as a bandaid to marriage problems. Does that make sense?

Better to look at the marriage problems first.

You bet I've got some bitterness. Walk a mile in my shoes...or rather don't, because I wouldn't wish that nonsense on anybody. But my shoes, and what you may think of them, are entirely irrelevant here. But as to my experience, which gives me many insights to draw from:

a.) I've had relationships where there was no infatuation in the beginning, or ever.
b.) I've had relationships that were like a bonfire of lust and feeling.
c.) I've had plenty of relationships, and they've come in many flavors, including polyamory.

I have enough experience to know of what I speak, at least somewhat, and I pay attention to the lessons others share, too. And I'm suggesting to YOU, that there might be more to your wife than the woman you think you know. The one who doesn't satisfy you.

This post:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=343733&postcount=4

Says to me "I don't respect this woman, I wish I hadn't ended up with her." You're judgy, calling her a nerd, talking about "Fatal Attraction" like basically you are saying, you just wanted to hit it but she wouldn't quit it and now you're stuck with her. Hell, why don't you just show her that post?

How do you think it would make her feel to read it?

I don't give a damn if I know the "full skinny" or not. You said those words I linked above. And when I called you on what you said, you're like "well you don't know" well dude...I know what you said. It's right there. And frankly the parts about how she can get laid easier than you can, because she's female, make YOU sound a little bitter.

In that post:
- You criticize her for being nerdy and unpopular.
- You say she has "daddy issues."
- You indicate she fastened onto you in an obsessive way.
- You indicate regret that you're with her. "Cursed" I think you said?
- You say she is bad in bed. Like a "newb".
- Yet she can get sex with others easier than you, and you don't like that one bit.
- And finally you indicate that she has BPD...is she diagnosed, or on meds, or is that just your opinion, that she is "crazy?" (Are you familiar with the term, "gaslighting?")

So it sounds to me like you have a good life/family partner, but a bad romantic partner. Which might be alright if you could just leave it at that and respect her as a person. I don't know how she feels, and I doubt if you do, either (you pretty much say you don't.) Has it occurred to you, to find out? The main question is... Is she, right now, romantically in love with you? Or is she wanting a secure foundation for the family? If she's clinging to security, she doesn't want you sleeping around because she's scared you will develop feelings for another woman, and transfer all of your resources (time and money) into the new woman. That would be the common road of a serial monogamist, which is far more common than polyamory. She might not believe that you can prevent that from even happening accidentally. At which point, what happens to her and your kid(s)? She might be a woman on a mission to just keep her nuclear family together long enough to get those kids raised.

Or, she might be clinging to romantic love for you, which you do not really return. And settling for whatever you have to offer her. Which is sad, but it happens.

But unless you get an honest answer from her, you can't say exactly what she feels, you'd be guessing...which is all that I can do too.

Here's the thing... You say you're not here for marriage counseling, you're here because no one in your area would "understand." Well, unfortunately it really sounds like what you NEED is marriage counseling. What you want, to have a lover outside of your marriage, doesn't make you a bad person. If that's what you came here to be told, well there you go. I just told you. Congrats, you're not a monster for wanting to be naked with somebody who isn't your wife. But I don't condone cheating, if you were to do it behind her back, most folks would consider that unethical. And frankly, either way, I believe that if you don't get right with your situation at home first, you're just making your mess, even messier.

You know one thing I found out, doing polyamory? I learned more about myself in one year than I had in 36 years leading up to it. Including some stuff that was not always very nice. Growing hurts sometimes. But those who try to do poly without also growing and learning, usually just flail around hurting themselves and others.
 
speghettifriendly, I think I sorta understand.Please excuse me if I ramble as I have severe ADD. I'm new too so feel free to read my introduction. At least you admit the whole "ego" thing and recognize it for what it is. Here's the thing.... women struggle with egos too, we just keep it bottled up much better sometimes. Maybe your sex life is boring because you just view her as the mother of your kids. You fell into a routine. This had happened at one point with my husband and I as well. I would rush him so I could continue my motherly duties and felt detached. I stopped loving myself and my confidence dropped.I honestly felt that my husband had betrayed me on such a level that he didn't deserve to know me so intimately. It wasn't until I quit tearing myself down that my sex life got better. I found a way to openly discuss the things I fantasized about with him. I also made sure that he understood that he could tell me his fantasies as well. Slowly, we started knocking them out and it's been amazing but there has to be a certain level of trust involved.

Another partner will not fix your marriage. If you both don't feel confident it will destroy it. I recognize that even though I'm open to everything in the bedroom sometimes you just want something different for the adventure of it all. At the same time, maybe try pursuing your wife all over again too. She's probably overwhelmed. I also understand the worry about someone being inside of her (you probably view it as more intrusive but I assure you she feels the same way about you being inside of someone else).

I agree that you should probably get a vasectomy unless lots of child support and broken relationships sounds fun. Try sitting down with your wife. Be sincere and ask her about her needs then do your best to fulfill them. Instead of figuring out what she can do for you ask yourself what you can do for her. It sucks for a while but then everything just sorta falls together. I look forward to following your journey.
 
Spork said:
I spoke to the things you said, pointed out specifically what I was replying to, and OF COURSE I don't know your life story. Unlike me, you have not provided it. And OF COURSE you don't know mine either. Unless you've been on the Life Stories and Blogs section and read it. Not that I advise you to, because it's rather long and won't likely help you, unless you really need something to occupy your mind while in the bathroom.

I do not like or dislike you. I don't know you. I'm not here to condemn you. I did however wish to make the point that your initial posts sounded a little harsh towards your wife. And also to point out that it's one of the cardinal observations you'll get from the overall poly community (which I've been part of here, and in real life with loads of polyfolk in my area)...that "relationship broken, add more people" is not a good philosophy. So when someone comes along and indicates that they are interested in poly because of problems A, B, C and D in their marriage, where they are not getting their needs met... Poly doesn't do very well as a bandaid to marriage problems. Does that make sense?

Better to look at the marriage problems first.

You bet I've got some bitterness. Walk a mile in my shoes...or rather don't, because I wouldn't wish that nonsense on anybody. But my shoes, and what you may think of them, are entirely irrelevant here. But as to my experience, which gives me many insights to draw from:

a.) I've had relationships where there was no infatuation in the beginning, or ever.
b.) I've had relationships that were like a bonfire of lust and feeling.
c.) I've had plenty of relationships, and they've come in many flavors, including polyamory.

I have enough experience to know of what I speak, at least somewhat, and I pay attention to the lessons others share, too. And I'm suggesting to YOU, that there might be more to your wife than the woman you think you know. The one who doesn't satisfy you.

This post:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=343733&postcount=4

Says to me "I don't respect this woman, I wish I hadn't ended up with her." You're judgy, calling her a nerd, talking about "Fatal Attraction" like basically you are saying, you just wanted to hit it but she wouldn't quit it and now you're stuck with her. Hell, why don't you just show her that post?

How do you think it would make her feel to read it?

I don't give a damn if I know the "full skinny" or not. You said those words I linked above. And when I called you on what you said, you're like "well you don't know" well dude...I know what you said. It's right there. And frankly the parts about how she can get laid easier than you can, because she's female, make YOU sound a little bitter.

In that post:
- You criticize her for being nerdy and unpopular.
- You say she has "daddy issues."
- You indicate she fastened onto you in an obsessive way.
- You indicate regret that you're with her. "Cursed" I think you said?
- You say she is bad in bed. Like a "newb".
- Yet she can get sex with others easier than you, and you don't like that one bit.
- And finally you indicate that she has BPD...is she diagnosed, or on meds, or is that just your opinion, that she is "crazy?" (Are you familiar with the term, "gaslighting?")

So it sounds to me like you have a good life/family partner, but a bad romantic partner. Which might be alright if you could just leave it at that and respect her as a person. I don't know how she feels, and I doubt if you do, either (you pretty much say you don't.) Has it occurred to you, to find out? The main question is... Is she, right now, romantically in love with you? Or is she wanting a secure foundation for the family? If she's clinging to security, she doesn't want you sleeping around because she's scared you will develop feelings for another woman, and transfer all of your resources (time and money) into the new woman. That would be the common road of a serial monogamist, which is far more common than polyamory. She might not believe that you can prevent that from even happening accidentally. At which point, what happens to her and your kid(s)? She might be a woman on a mission to just keep her nuclear family together long enough to get those kids raised.

Or, she might be clinging to romantic love for you, which you do not really return. And settling for whatever you have to offer her. Which is sad, but it happens.

But unless you get an honest answer from her, you can't say exactly what she feels, you'd be guessing...which is all that I can do too.

Here's the thing... You say you're not here for marriage counseling, you're here because no one in your area would "understand." Well, unfortunately it really sounds like what you NEED is marriage counseling. What you want, to have a lover outside of your marriage, doesn't make you a bad person. If that's what you came here to be told, well there you go. I just told you. Congrats, you're not a monster for wanting to be naked with somebody who isn't your wife. But I don't condone cheating, if you were to do it behind her back, most folks would consider that unethical. And frankly, either way, I believe that if you don't get right with your situation at home first, you're just making your mess, even messier.

You know one thing I found out, doing polyamory? I learned more about myself in one year than I had in 36 years leading up to it. Including some stuff that was not always very nice. Growing hurts sometimes. But those who try to do poly without also growing and learning, usually just flail around hurting themselves and others.
Click to expand...

Thank you again for your encouraging advice and on safe sex practice, such as a vasectomy, and I am considering it, as long as I can find out it will not do anything to affect testosterone. But from the sounds of it on this thread alone, you mean to tell me everyone here is fixed? Or does that only apply to me?

Like I said, its interesting from what Ive read about you, that you are even here, and from the looks of it, I might encounter you more than once on these forums should I decide to stay here, you take on the sound of a troll , to save everyone from themselves, to "control" to say the least, aside from someone who might give a nickles worth of advice,but I apologize for making that assumption or analogy. But I am glad to be a bit of source for your venting, it looks like whatever I said has struck one of your inner chords. Everything that you say I have considered to the very root. To the root of the cause, both sides of the coin, you name it. I've had 16 years of trying to figure it out, figure myself out,and still have yet to figure her out entirely like you mentioned, yet, you both have something in common, which is probably why you see yourself as to relate to her, you both display some controlling and possessiveness traits. With her, she has behavioral patterns that can be almost anticipated, but not quite figure out why, except for reasons going back to childhood. Same with myself.

I've pried, prodded, even went to marital and couple counseling but to no avail, both counselors seemed to want to "sell us a car" sort of speak. I have done research on her personality and you may have just touched on some key elements to why she may be the way she is. But you are well aware, YOU DO NOT KNOW HER. I do.

What it sounds as if you are suggesting settling, to just give up and except it or to make due. But from what you tell me, you settled and you hated it. So why should I? And I do not hate our relationship, we both resent each other to certain degrees, and if I came off sounding a bit insecure or just plain apathetic then Christ, I apologize. But I described in a nut shell and as an introduction. I'll have to go back and read what I typed. Like I said earlier, she is a different case, maybe similar to yours, but she sure hides things well. I have tried to get her to open up, to even explore, explore herself, others. She is a case of the "buttoned up", she's like a robot. Like I said, Id go MORE into details but it can be lengthy and from the looks of it, you seem to need more details, and even then, that may not be enough, you're still going to be judgmental no matter what...just like you suspect that I am.
Insensitive? far from it and in fact I am sensitive and very empathetic, I might be the sweetest and most charming gentleman of guys here, who knows.

And of course I come off sounding like I'm complaining but like you know as well as I do....you aren't in my shoes and if you are trying to discourage , shame, or guilt people like me who join these groups, you are far from discouraging me. Shame? I've felt shame long before. Guilt? Oh, plenty of it. I can go elsewhere or seek a different type of group i guess.

Oh, and I know seeking another relationship or alternative will not fix our marriage. In fact, I am not trying to fix it. Its not that kind of broken. We do meet half way or resolve things. This is just a different issue which isn't really an issue with us, but is...do you kind of get it? maybe? I dont think you all will.
 
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Still not sure what you hope to get here.

You will be told truths as people perceive them, from a combination of their perspective and experience, plus response to the words that YOU provide for us to respond to.

What else would you expect from anyone?

Again, "Relationship broken; add more people" is such a common...shall I say, mistake?...that there is a phrase for it, just like "unicorn hunters" is common. Some things we see crop up again and again with new posters and (in my case) with people new to my real life poly community, and we see them become messy and hurtful to those involved, again and again.

What do you want?

Validation that cheating on her is right? You will not find that. Validation that wanting others, in an honest manner, is not WRONG? I already said that.

But just as you accuse her of having mental issues, probably when she says things you don't like, you immediately jump to pointing at other people with speculations about them, and talking about how I'm "like her" which frankly...I doubt if our paths were similar really.

I'm not telling you to settle. I'm telling you to get real straight with each other, stop trying to defend yourself as perfect and point at her as the flawed one, and just negotiate fairly like adults and not manipulators. You seem to jump to this antagonistic place, if you do that with her as you've reflexively done here in a mere conversation with an uninvolved outsider like me, then that may be contributing to your ongoing hardships. So. Ultimately what are your choices in this situation?

You could just cheat. If you can live with that, then whatever.
You could explain to her how you feel, without blaming her for MAKING you feel that way. Maybe? You have a right to your feelings, and needs. If anything? I predict divorce. Your relationship sounds a bit codependent if not outright abusive to me. You seem to have a certain level of contempt for the marriage and the woman, and frankly it is hard to come back from that.

I don't see this as the foundation for healthy polyamory. I'm sorry to say the thing you maybe don't want to hear. I doubt if any of the experienced posters here would tell you different.

Does that make me a troll? Because I have said a thing you don't wish to hear? Are you, who have just arrived here, going to point to posters who have been around a while, for saying what you don't wish to hear, and say they don't belong on this forum? I think that sort of behavior kind of makes YOU a troll. You're not going to make me leave this place. But I can certainly stop speaking to you if you don't want my perspective. Would you like that? I'll block and ignore you if that would make you more comfortable here. Just let me know.

************************************************************

EDIT: I have a better idea, actually.

Absolute last clarification: I've no stake in this. I'm not interested in your feelings of shame or guilt or whatever. I was interested in helping you to broaden your perspective and see different angles on this situation besides just your own. As well as advising that you make peace with your marital issues BEFORE you try to do poly, whether by fixing things at home or getting a divorce. Whatever it comes to. Regarding the vasectomy, no of course not every guy here has one, not every guy here just wants to go have casual sex with strangers either. Any man who does want that, I would advise to get a vasectomy if he doesn't want more children in his future (actually it isn't a bad idea for any man who doesn't want more kids, regardless)...but the point being, that the alternative is to trust your female partner to be covering the birth control bases, and if you're having casual sex then you're not taking the time to form a trusting bond. Does that make sense?

But here is the deal. I've now become redundant. You've disregarded the substance of my posts in favor of a defensive position more than once. We have officially reached "agree to disagree" territory...where I am not providing anything useful to you. Which means that continuing to respond is, for me, now a waste of time. I'm not in this thread to defend myself from your opinions on what sort of person I might be, and you may feel free to think whatever you wish. I have nothing further of value to contribute and will no longer respond here.

As to whether you will continue to "encounter" me if you post here...well, I've no intention of leaving the site. I like it here. I like a lot of the people here. I won't seek you out though, so I guess it depends on where you post. ?? No one is persecuting you. But if you and I cannot have respectful conversations, I will block you, because I'm not here to engage in pointless arguments. I won't be baited by you trying to question my character. I know my character. I don't need to defend it to you.

Best of luck, and good day, sir.
 
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Wow, preachy and judgmental much?

Although you've hit on some valid points and I can agree with you on some but what how i view this is way over your head. And how you perceive me to be is totally off the mark. And if you were right about me being a certain way I'll admit some is correct, I don't care. But my wife read this and she even thinks your a little too too. But hey I'll give you credit for offering such appropriate advice. But my 2 cents to you...youre not going to solve world hunger. Out of context yes , but take that with a grain of salt. I'm at work so can't say much. 😜
 
First and final warning:

Enough with the name-calling. If this thread doesn't become civil again fast I'm going to lock it.
 
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