New to poly

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Mark1npt

New member
Hello, everyone. I'm looking to see if anyone has experience with our type of setup.

My wife and I have been married for 27 years. Our kids are out of the house, but not out of the area.

My wife's best (female) friend of 25 years, who is a very good friend of mine, is now divorced, and living with us in a poly relationship. It is strictly one man/one woman (at a time). There is no desire on anyone's part to make sex a three-way, or to ever have any other partners in our triad. I guess you could say we all have a great deal of love for one another and have embraced the idea of a monogamous triad.

Does anyone have similar experiences to share? My wife is still having a difficult time at moments here and there, but generally is very supportive. It's just so new to all of us. We try to communicate as much as possible, but there are still times we don't do enough. Is anyone else living this way and surviving, healthy and happy?
 
Mark1npt said:
I guess you could say we all have a great deal of love for one another and embraced the idea of a monogamous triad.
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The word triad is generally used by people within the polyamory community to refer to a situation in which three people are each loving, romantic and sexual partners with each of the others in the grouping of three. A grouping of the sort you described is known as a V, with the top two ends of the V shape indicating your two women lovers, and the point of the V being yourself. A triad would have a line crossing at the top, indicating that all are romantically involved with one another.

When more than two people practice fidelity, it is known as polyfidelity, rather than monogamy of any sort. "Monogamy is the state of having only one husband, wife, or sexual partner at any one time." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamy

Are the two women in your arrangement free to have other partners, if they wish? That's something to consider, since you are uniquely the beneficiary of the multiple partner situation you have-- at least in some respect. I'm all for what you have, so long as everyone is truly happy with it. But I can't say much from experience on your situation, because most of my loverly relationships have been with other men, and the dynamic is just different -- mainly due to gender enculturation and issues. Example, men together as lovers don't have any trouble worrying about sexist attitudes manifesting as power issues, based on who has what sort of plumbing.
 
Thanks for the input. I guess being new to this alternative lifestyle, I was bound to use the wrong terminlogy somewhere. I totally understand the "V" now. Yes, the women are free to find another male partner, but it appears neither one of them is all that interested. I used the "monogomous" wording because each of the women here are monogomous in their relationship with me.
 
This comment is made with all due respect, River. I find your resistance to the word monogamous interesting. I understand the politics to some degree, but find nothing wrong with the word monogamous, and use it with pride when I speak of my own polyamorous relationship. The same pride is invoked when I speak of my polyamorous lover.

Wikipedia even states (and I quote your own quote): "Monogamy is the state of having only one husband, wife, or sexual partner at any one time."

That is my case, and the case of his two lovers to him. I don't see the ambiguity.
 
I think it is good to work out the terms. It avoids so much confusion when people are saying something and it sounds like something else.

I commonly hear poly/mono couples imply that one of the people is open to outside relationships, while the other is not looking and does not desire any. This doesn't mean that the poly one is really dating someone else, and it doesn't mean that the mono person will never date someone outside the relationship.

At least, that's what I have seen.
 
Thanks for the input, Mono. That's really about how I've felt with this lifestyle. We are all monogamous at this moment in time.

One of the issues we're going thru now in this V is that my wife can't help but wonder if the 2 of them (women) are going to be enough for me, going forward. I have assured each of them that they are. However, I guess my wife's insecurity in dealing with this arrangement after 27 years of having me to herself leads her to think this way. I can't blame her, and have reassured her of this numerous times in our open communication sessions. I guess, with the passage of time, this will get easier for her to accept, enjoy, deal with? Any input?
 
MonoVCPHG said:
I find your resistance to the word monogamous interesting.
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I have no "resistance" to the word at all when it is used to designate a situation or thing that resembles the dictionary definition, or how the word is generally used. A person is monogamous when they have just one lover or spouse. If a person has two or more lovers/spouses at the same time, with whom they practice 'fidelity,' it's not monogamy the person is practicing, but polyfidelity. My saying so is not "resistance," but merely pointing out a fact found in dictionaries. Facts are not mere opinions, and my pointing them out is not a personal preference.
 
River, I think we are agreeing on this for the most part. "A person is monogamous when they have just one lover or spouse." This is, in fact, my case. To be clear, this is the dynamic of my mono/poly relationship. I have and want only want one lover. I am not open to sharing that intimate love for anyone else but her, because that is how I love. My lover is polyamorous and intimately loves more people than me. She has the personal choice to consider adding more.

This means that I will never date outside of this relationship unless the intimate nature of it changes. That's a part of my monogamous nature.

Mark1pnt, I too had similar concerns about the addition of new lovers, and the uncertainty of wondering if any number of lovers would ever be enough for my partner. I have chosen not to worry about this issue any more and just enjoy her to the fullest, with abandon. This took a lot of communication and allowing myself to be vulnerable.

If I continued to play the "What if?" game, or saw a new relationship forming around every corner, I could not stay in this relationship, because I would honestly go insane! I did feel comforted when my lover told me there actually was a cap. I'm not saying I am it, but it felt good, regardless.

There are things she does not have, and I understand those and want her to have them. I would step back if that is what it took to make her happy to the fullest extent.

I know how important I am; she knows how important she is. We both know how fortunate we are, all of us, everyone, in her life and my life.
 
Mono, Mark said

I guess you could say we all have a great deal of love for one another and have embraced the idea of a monogamous triad.
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By definition, a triad is a polyamorous relationship. Mark is practicing polyamory (and is, himself, polyamorous). My comments were in no way disparaging of anyone who considers himself monogamous while also involved with a polyamorous person, such as yourself.

What Mark has and wants, according to his words, is a polyfidelitous V.
 
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River, I do appreciate your clarification. Again, is there anyone or any resource out there that I can turn to for guidance regarding this polyfidelitous V relationship? Thanks.
 
Mark,

I think most of the advice concerning polyamorous relationships and their unique challenges, etc., is universally useful. But some of it concerns unique or particular situations or conditions. I don't have enough experience with heterosexual loving relationships to feel that I'm familiar with the nuances of those which differ from my experience as a queer man. (I'm bi-, and although I had a brief loverly relationship with a woman, all of my long-term loves have been male.) So, I'm hoping the poly heteros in here will chime in with guidance for you and your two women lovers.

Anyway, there is tons of stuff on polyamory to be found on the internet. Try a www.google.com search of polyamory, polyfidelity, Vs. Also, there are a bunch of books on the topic, and some of them are mentioned and discussed in our topic in here on books and online articles/websites.

I'd be happy to answer any particular questions which you may have about polyamorous practices, though it will all be uniquely from my perspective. I think most of the insights I have on the subject probably apply to all sorts of configurations and gender mixes.

Do your lovers experience any jealousy toward one another, fear of loss, insecurity, related to your non-conventional love-style? Are there particular problems which need addressing?
 
I agree, River. He is, in fact, in a polyamorous relationship, as am I. I may have got hung up on identifying my monogamous natur,e and that of his partners, and did not focus on the larger polyamorous nature of both relationship structures.

I also recognize your accurate description of his V relationship, which reflects my own. The difference being in:

The word "triad" is generally used by people within the polyamory community to refer to a situation in which three people are each loving, "romantic" and sexual partners with each of the others in the grouping of three.
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This validates sex as a core component in polyamory. Thank you for this clarification.
 
Mono, things are actually just a little more complex than you may realize. This is because it is NOT the case that all "romantic relationships." or even "passionate bonded relationships," have a sexual component, per se.

While it is less common, and less commonly understood, today in America and in the world/west, as contrasted with, say, the 19th century, there is a tradition of "romantic friendship" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship . This tradition makes me wonder whether it is at all proper to call people "lovers" simply because they have a sexual relationship. After all, many sexual relationships aren't all that damn loving.

So sex, again, isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is. Whether a group is a V or a triad, I suppose, depends more on the quality of love than the quantity of sex between the participants.
 
Do your lovers experience any jealousy toward one another, fear of loss, insecurity, related to your non-conventional love-style? Are there particular problems which need addressing?
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My wife has some issues. She's trying to figure out why I'm so happy now. She's feeling a little badly that, after 27 years, she was not able to be everything and more, to keep me totally happy and fulfilled all by herself.

My/our best friend is still trying to figure out how she fits in, feels alone sleeping by herself most nights, even if I make love to her and sleep with her part of the night, before going to the master bedroom (and my wife) so that I can get up on time and off to work in the AM. She says she can live with half of me, as that's better than all of the men she's ever had. But she still struggles.

We are trying to communicate our needs and wants, but obviously there are some gaps, struggles, etc.
 
So sex, again, isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is. Whether a group is a V or a triad, I suppose, depends more on the quality of love than the quantity of sex between the participants.
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I must say there is definitely love amongst all 3 of us. We have been friends for more than 20 years. This should be the most fulfilling situation in the world for each of us. I hope we can make it work for the rest of our lives. Is that being too optimistic?
 
Of course it is possible! Redpepper, her husband and I are living it and it is amazing! It's worth working for if you are all genuine and open. Think positive and communicate lots.
 
"Sex isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is."

Love with sex/sexual components is a different type of love. It does not relate to any other. Generally the only thing that would preclude sex from an intimate relationship is age or medical condition.

Without the intimacy of sexual energy/contact, I don't think there would even need to be a term for these relationships we have. Sexuality is integral to the relationships formed in polyamory. It is the defining difference that separates it from deep friendships.

With respect, River, I'm more than willing to agree to disagree. We simply have different views.
 
Mark1npt said:
Wife has some issues. She's trying to figure out why I'm so happy now. She's feeling a little badly that, after 27 years, she was not able to be everything and more to keep me totally happy and fulfilled, all by herself.
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I think there is a powerful false myth afoot in our culture which says that one person ought to be able, in every case, to provide for all of our love and intimacy needs for a whole lifetime. There are numerous other associated false myths which make polyamory challenging for all of us. One of these is that really deep and satisfying loving intimacy must include sexual expression. My way of thinking is "Why not?" -- which is to say, "Why should it not?" if that's what all involved are open to/okay with, and all involved are willing to "dance" with the challenges involved. "Dancing" with these challenges provides all of us polyamorists with plenty of opportunity to explore what love and intimacy are about--for us. What's wrong with that? Nothing!

Love is made possible because of empathy. Without empathy, there can be no loving. So it is important for all of us who are choosing an approach to loving which is different from the conventional mode to accept our responsibility to keep opening up in empathy with all with whom we are involved in loving relationship.

That means, as I see it, that your wife could benefit all involved, including herself, by exploring empathetically why it is that you're happier now than previously, if such is the case. Ideally, she'd be able to see through any jealousies or fears generated in this arrangement. But it is also incumbent upon you, in your gift of love to her, that you empathize with her challenge in seeing you so happy. She may react with a feeling-thought of "Aren't I/wasn't I good enough?" Let her know that she is, and has been, more than good enough, and that the additional love only allows you to know more about your capacity for loving, to meet challenges, explore your own depths, etc.

Avoid framing it all in a story or drama of "lack." What's wrong with being even more fulfilled, more blessed, more joyous, and having more love from more people? Nothing! More love is always a good thing.


Mark1npt said:
My/our best friend is still trying to figure out how she fits in. She feels alone sleeping by herself most nights, even if I make love to her and sleep with her part of the night, before going to the master bedroom (and wife) so that I can get up on time and off to work in the AM. She says she can live with half of me, as that's better than any of the men she's ever had. But she still struggles. We are trying to communicate our needs and wants, but obviously there are some gaps, struggles, etc.
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My first thought is to change the "to" to "with" in the making love. I'm a little petty about word choices, sometimes, but I'm not sure the difference is petty in this case. Never make love "to" anyone! Always make love "with" instead. Nobody with self-love wants to be made love "to". Everyone with self-love who enjoys lovemaking finds making love "with" much better than "to." But enough nitpicking.

My advice is to empathize. Open even more to both of these women with empathy, kindness, and warmth. You've accepted the challenge, and that's what the challenge amounts to. They both want your love, and your challenge is to give it fully to both, which means both need your empathy.

Because you all are good friends, I have complete faith in all of you to meet your challenges. Stay open. Love more. Give all you've got!
 
This should be the most fulfilling situation in the world for each of us.
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The important thing here, I believe, is that you accept that what you feel "should be" is not necessarily what other people want, or can even understand. This statement is from your perspective.

Have you thought about why it should be the most fulfilling situation? What would be the difference between living in a loving relationship with your wife and friend without the aspects that make it polyamorous between all three of you?

What is in it for each individual, you, your wife and your other lover? You can even go as far as to write it down individually and then compare. See how close they are. Just a thought.
 
I really appreciate the input and varied views guys. Thanks. You have both made me stop and think, and realize from a different angle or two, all that is going on in this arrangement, what a different viewpoint, different sets of experienced eyes are able to see. And make me see, glass half empty or half full?

Like "making love to." D'oh! Of course! It makes sense to me now. In the past 10-15 years, as work and family pressures/medical worries crept into our lives, I always felt that I was more making love "to her," right or wrong, that she had become almost entirely passive in the lovemaking process. But it was and is still great with her and I don't want that to end! Our love life meets certain innate needs for both of us, that's for sure. She has been incredibly understanding to take on this relationship so far into our own marriage.

I am a healthcare provider and it's in my wiring to give. I can't be any other way. On the other hand, our third, our best friend is very active in the lovemaking process. It is different in that it's more "making love with" her, because her wants and needs after coming out of her own failed long-term marriage were very different.

It is very fulfilling to me to be able to participate in/provide. Not that it's "better" than with my wife, more like "complementary," really rounding out my inner soul, if that makes sense. It is also fantastic and meets other needs I seem to crave/have. I am so lucky to have the love of both of these fantastic women.

I need to make sure I can continue to meet all their needs and be the person they both need me to be. I really can't afford to mess this up. And yes, above all the sex and lovemaking, the camaraderie and friendship we three share on a daily basis is very gratifying, on many levels. That's living life LARGE... and it's great!
 
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