Not mentioning other partners?

S

Softboom

New member
Ok so here is the deal. I went into a relationship not knowing where it was going at all. When we first meet he was honest and upfront about being polyamorous. At the time I had no idea what that really meant or how it worked. I've been slowly learning as we've gone along. I was only taught monogamy growing up. I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems that openness and honesty are two key ingridients to making it work. A little extra background. I am 24 and this is my first relationship. My partner is 44 so he has quite a bit more life experience than me. We are also in a long distance relationship. He says that I am his primary partner.

So here is the problem. Open and honest to me would mean he tells me about his other partners openly with out prompting. Like when he goes out on a date or hooks up with someone. To him he doesn't feel like he needs to share that. In his words he said in our messages last night.

Partner: Well I'm.certainly not hiding I just don't want to be letting yu in on each and every exhaustive detail of going after a girl. That then looses its luster on many levels. Plus if I bring it up it feels like I'm. gloating or rubbing it into yur face or disrespecting what we have. But I don't see it that way. I see what we have is independent and special. But the questions and curiosities have to come from yu. I'm just not about regurgitating my every move or interest. That would be epically crazy and endlessly boring and it would also take out the zest of life to be that under the radar. Meaning I feel entitled to my not feeling my every aspect of my dating life being monitored




I don't feel like I should have to dig for this information. To me when he does not say anything I feel like it's cheating. Especially when we talk about how our days went and what we did everyday! He doesn't even mention a peep about these other women. I don't feel like I need to harp and ask and ask and ask!

I don't want to know all the details! I just feel like I should know he has been with another women either physically or emotionally.

Am I being unreasonable?
 
You aren't being unreasonable...for you and how you want to do poly.

It sounds like he finds it unreasonable... for him and how he wants to do poly.

I get that it is your first relationship, but not everyone you date is going to be a long haul runner. From the sound of it, you are up for poly if there is a certain level of communication. He is not willing to provide that level of communication. So... why include him in your poly network? :confused:

He also isn't straight up. Be nice if he would just say it up front like "I see that you want me to do X. I am not willing to do that" rather than give you a whole song and dance about it that makes it sound like if you ask for info, you are a big downer putting a crimp in his style.

That would be epically crazy and endlessly boring and it would also take out the zest of life to be that under the radar. Meaning I feel entitled to my not feeling my every aspect of my dating life being monitored
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If it is really that torturous for him, why is he dating you? Someone who wants more communication? Rather than break up and go date someone who is up for a Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) model? :confused:

What's his motive? Is he gaslighting you? And how compatible are you two anyway?

I would ask yourself those things. Rather than asking if you are "unreasonable." You are allowed to have your personal preferences and personal standards just like anyone else can have theirs. FWIW, I don't think wanting open communication and not having to fish things out of people is unreasonable or unrealistic stuff to want in a relationship.

It is just that this person is not willing to provide those things.

I don't feel like I should have to dig for this information. To me when he does not say anything I feel like it's cheating.
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It sounds like his style of practicing poly does not align with yours. And he doesn't make the cut on your personal standard for what you are looking for in a dating partner. You want someone who communicates more/is more forthcoming.

Galagirl
 
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I don't think you're being unreasonable.

Him physically being with someone else could affect your health. You have a right to know about that.

Him emotionally being with someone else is a little iffier.

What I would suggest? Compromise. He tells you when he first dates someone. He tells you when they graduate to "in a relationship" vs "casually dating." If he's uncomfortable talking about anything else on the emotion side, fine. It doesn't really affect you. He DOES however tell you if it WILL affect you (i.e. talk of moving in with a partner which would limit use of his home, talk of moving away with partner which could end your relationship or make it long distance, talk of procreating with a partner which would affect his time and resources therefore your relationship, etc).

For the physical aspect, he should definitely be telling you when he's interacting with new people, when they were last tested, etc. If they do have any STIs, he should be telling you which ones so that you can decide if you still want to be physical with him since that would increase your risk of being affected by one as well. If it becomes an established relationship, then I would think telling you when/if they decide to forgo barriers and if there are any STI concerns that pop up that were not there originally would be the minimum that he needs to share with you.

You two come from very different relationship mindsets. You from monogamy where everything is typically shared, he from nonmonogamy where the rules/boundaries/expectations vary immensely. I would suggest you read "Opening Up." It has some good conversation starters and lists to help you prepare for various situations. It could help you have the conversations with your partner to determine if you two are compatible. If he refuses to budge on the communication aspect, you may just have to leave the relationship due to incompatibility.
 
Softboom said:
So here is the problem. Open and honest to me would mean he tells me about his other partners openly with out prompting. Like when he goes out on a date or hooks up with someone. To him he doesn't feel like he needs to share that.
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I don't think it's fundamentally unreasonable to want to know what is going on with our loved ones. However, I would ask myself why it is I feel like I need to know. Does this information directly impact you? Are you entitled to it (why)?

1) Health: if he's swapping fluids with someone that can immediately and permanently impact you.

2) I can't think of anything else.​

Softboom said:
Partner: Well I'm.certainly not hiding I just don't want to be letting yu in on each and every exhaustive detail of going after a girl. That then looses its luster on many levels. Plus if I bring it up it feels like I'm. gloating or rubbing it into yur face or disrespecting what we have. But I don't see it that way. I see what we have is independent and special. But the questions and curiosities have to come from yu. I'm just not about regurgitating my every move or interest. That would be epically crazy and endlessly boring and it would also take out the zest of life to be that under the radar. Meaning I feel entitled to my not feeling my every aspect of my dating life being monitored
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Be precise. Exactly what information is it you are looking for and under what circumstances do you think it should be offered (without provocation)? What information would be nice and what information must be expressed?
 
In my situation, we've set specific agreements about what to tell each other. If we're just chatting with someone, that doesn't have to be mentioned. If the chatting includes, "Hey, we should meet up in person/go on a date," we inform each other. That became part of the agreement after I was blindsided a couple of times by finding out a partner had a date when I hadn't even been aware they were talking to anyone. We inform each other about each date with another partner; not details, just when it's happening so we don't interrupt each other's time with someone else. And we inform each other the first time sex happens with a new partner, or if sex happens with a previous partner with whom it hasn't happened for quite a while.

None of those include any details. Just "This guy and I've been talking, and we're talking about meeting up," "This guy and I have a date Thursday at 6," and "This guy and I had sex after we talked about sexual health." For my situation, it's reasonable to ask to know these things. It wouldn't work for everyone.
 
Hi,

I hear you saying that your long distance partner considers you a primary. However, he goes on new dates without letting you know. I hear you saying you've tried to negotiate this with him unsuccessfully; when you ask about what he's done in the day, you also want to know about new women whilst he feels you don't need to know. Furthermore, you seem to find that his behaviour in hiding this makes you feel like he is cheating. Did I interpret what you've said so far accurately?

I apologise if I've understood the situation poorly. You'll find on the forums that it sometimes happens. We come with well-intentioned advice, but we sometimes get it wrong. Please just let us know if we've misunderstood something.

I'm not sure if you've come up against the concept of hierarchical poly versus solo poly. I'm probably not the best to explain it, but there are different poly models and sometimes labels help and sometimes they don't.

But to answer your question, like others who have written before me, I feel it's not unreasonable to ask him to let you know when he's dating new partners. You could also ask him to let you know when certain landmarks are achieved in each relationship (eg, first kiss, first sex, first "I love you", etc), just so you can get a gauge on how serious the relationship is (to give you emotional security) and with regards to sex, so that you can be safe yourself (sexual health). I'm saying you can ask him, but not that he necessarily needs to agree to it. Some people are uncomfortable sharing more than that - certainly, I can imagine that from a third person's perspective, they don't want someone they've never met knowing and following every intimate thing they're doing. Some may even say what I've suggested is a little too controlling, but everyone will agree that you can ask for it, although he doesn't have to give it.

In summary, he seems to be uncomfortable sharing what you're requesting. You're uncomfortable with the small amount of information he is sharing. If the two of you can find no consensus, then you are practicing different models of polyamory, neither necessarily unethical or wrong - just different. Just needs more discussion between the two of you.

Hope some of this helps,
Shaya.
 
Softboom said:
I am 24 and this is my first relationship. My partner is 44 so he has quite a bit more life experience than me. We are also in a long distance relationship. He says that I am his primary partner.
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This right here has all kinds of red flags on it - never mind his feeling "monitored" by your request for a little more transparency.
 
This needs to be evaluated in context. On this forum, sometimes we can get more suspicious than necessary - and of course, sometimes not suspicious enough. I can't say from what you cited if it's blowing the fog or an honest and vulnerable self-expression. Do you feel he's treating you respectfully and fairly in all the other areas of your relationship?

His intention could be being polite, or it could be based on his own insecurity, or both. IMHO having all the info is indeed not always best, and not talking on and on about your other interrests is often 'being a good hinge'. Consider, that knowing every detail of him flirting with others could lead to feeling more threatened - like there is a new girl approaching all the time, when in fact she's not even close. But there will be some level of "seriousness" when you certainly want to know. You probably don't need to know every time he gets a message online, but you certainly want to know if it comes to fluid-bonding. Your own line will be somewhere inbetween that - you mentioned making out, so maybe that's what you want to know. Or maybe you feel like 'having a date' should be approached the same way as 'watching football with a friend', and the secrecy bothers you.
You should be able to communicate about what that is you want to hear, and work on a compromise if your partner has a strong need for privacy (which is also valid). If you can trust your partner, you just work out an agreement.

But if you get a feeling that he's leading you on, not communicating clearly, breaking promisses? Watch out. Don't be in a relationship where there is a lack of respect.
 
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It's possible he has had very jealous partners in the past.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I think it's possible that you are not communicating effectively about what you'd like to hear. Maybe you need to be more precise- "I don't need to know all the details. I just want to hear about your day. You can say something like, 'Oh I went out with so-and-so last night. We had fun.'"

Unless you want to know more than that. Then you are getting into privacy issues with the people he's dating.
 
Softboom said:
I am 24 and this is my first relationship. My partner is 44 so he has quite a bit more life experience than me. We are also in a long distance relationship. He says that I am his primary partner.
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Hi Softboom,

I think Karen has a point when she brings this up as a potential problem. I don't want to make you uncomfortable on this board because you're coming here for help on polyamory, and we can stick to that aspect of the discussion, but do you have someone experienced and sensible you trust in real life to talk to about the age gap, experience gap and long distance aspect? These are all challenges because they are not societal norms.

Polyamory is also not a societal norm, and obviously what this forum specialises in.

In summary, you are probably struggling with multiple things that don't fit a societal norm. As your first relationship, this is probably more challenging than most first relationships. Polyamory is what this forum is good at, but you're a unique individual with a unique relationship and there are other aspects of this relationship you have that also look challenging. We're happy to talk about these issues if you feel you need a sounding board, but I can totally understand if you have a good friend or family member you prefer to discuss this with.

Good luck,
Shaya.
 
Hi Softboom,

It does sound like your partner is trying to withhold basic information from you. But I'm not sure how to convince him to do otherwise. You could repeatedly ask of course, but I don't know if that would work. Which means you may have to decide if you can stand his behavior, or if you'd rather break up with him. I know that's not a decision you want to make. :(

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you everyone!!!

Hey everyone thank you so much for all of your thoughts and input. My mind is eased a bit. As many of you said I can feel how I feel I don't have to change that.

I know that there is a lot here in the message so please bare with me
My partner and I have this quote we that he saw in a paper somewhere “Nothing happens, and nothing happens, and then everything happens.”― Fay Weldon
My life summed up into one quote.

Do you feel he's treating you respectfully and fairly in all the other areas of your relationship?
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He does treat me very respectfully and fair in all other areas of our relationship. There isn't anything else that pops into my mind that goes outside what usually probably happens in most relationships anyways.

In summary, you are probably struggling with multiple things that don't fit a societal norm. As your first relationship, this is probably more challenging than most first relationships
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Yes you are right. Nothing about this relationship even fits into the social norm. Or any norms of poly or long distance relationships. Our relationship so very very unique and I could probably write a book on how different it is. lol I think our relationship is a second or third layer away from the societal norms. I do lots of reading and research online in all sorts of communities and it's hard because nothing really suits what is happing in my life/in this relationship.

The long distance: My partner is never in the same spot for very long. His work takes I'm to one city to the next for a few days at a time. So this isn't a domestic relationship and I know that it will never will be. For that matter it has been very clear that this relationship is not a forever type of thing. I know that he cares for me a lot but his ideas of relationships seems very fluid. He has said in the past that I can come and go as I please as my life changes and as other relationships may come up. It will end eventually but besides the communication of other partners go I don't think its at its end point yet. I'd like to find a compromise, learn, and grow from this.


We're happy to talk about these issues if you feel you need a sounding board, but I can totally understand if you have a good friend or family member you prefer to discuss this with.
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Do to my job I also move around seasonally so I haven't really made any close friends that I feel comfortable talking to about my whole situation. The friends I do have live in different states hours away with busy live. So thank you for your support and offering a place to ask for advice and guidance.


Exactly what information is it you are looking for and under what circumstances do you think it should be offered (without provocation)?
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I do need to figure this out. I'm not exactly sure what information I need to be hearing from him. I think I would like to know when he is becoming more deeply emotionally involved with someone (though I think we both have different definitions of this too) and also when he has fluid bonded with someone so I can make the choice of what protection we need when we come back together. I don't think I need to know the details. I don't want anyone asking about our details so I would like to practice what I preach I guess. When I do ask he will tell me anything and everything depending on what I ask for.


I don't know if this clears anything up. If anything it probably creates even more questions and concerns.


Thanks for "listening"
 
I agree that you are not being unreasonable at all. You are not asking him for every tiny detail, as he is trying to say you are. It wouldnt hurt him to mention things like this. He could for example just say 'oh I met someone new I want to take on a date next friday'. You dont have to know every detail, and I am sure you dont want to know that much.

To me this hints at a lack of respect from him to you, and, assuming he treats other partners the same, them as well.
 
I don't think you're being unreasonable either in what you're asking from him.

> The long distance: My partner is never in the same spot for very long. His work takes I'm to one city to the next for a few days at a time. So this isn't a domestic relationship and I know that it will never will be. For that matter it has been very clear that this relationship is not a forever type of thing. I know that he cares for me a lot but his ideas of relationships seems very fluid. He has said in the past that I can come and go as I please as my life changes and as other relationships may come up. It will end eventually but besides the communication of other partners go I don't think its at its end point yet. I'd like to find a compromise, learn, and grow from this.

To me, this, along with the age gap, would make me NEVER make this person my primary, my rock, my life partner.

It sounds like his approach is closer to relationship anarchy. Which is fine - but for some people (me included) this is utterly toxic from a partner.

And this is your *first* relationship!! His age, plus his experience in both relationships in general, and in poly specifically, could be setting up a power imbalance, and he may not take your concerns very seriously. (I would assume that this IS the case until proven otherwise, given such a difference in life stages and experiences - even if he has no bad intent. I've just seen it happen, even with good people who were doing their best to nurture their much younger partner.)

Would you consider dating other people too? Or, as a thought experiment, ask him what he would want to know if you were dating others?

It's extremely reasonable to tell your partners that:
1. you have a date
2. you had a date
3. you had sex with a new person
4. your birth control failed with someone else
5. they need to get checked for an STD
6. that you have long-term plans with a partner (marriage, co-habiting, kids, co-parenting, a business venture)

Indeed, this guy may not be interested in sharing these details with you, maybe he did indeed have jealous and controlling partners in the past.

But you are not his past partners.

I have had several partners who didn't tell me about the other relationships they were in, and I found it really upsetting. Didn't they trust me? Didn't they want me to share in their happiness?

The less entangled a partner was in my life, the less I cared about being informed about their sex life or their romantic life. But generally I would even share with my friends details like "I have a date with a cool new person" or "I really like how my relationship with X is going" or "I wish I saw X more often".

If someone is fluid-bonded, they need to tell you when they have sex with a new person, and probably you want to know a little about this new person, at least enough to determine if they might be putting you at risk.

Your health is not a boundary he gets to go waltzing around because it feels a bit uncomfortable or boring for him.

You could take the approach that you should avoid certain risky behaviours with him altogether, because he doesn't want to share the information you would need to make an informed choice. This is fair, although please be careful about how you word it, it could come across as a passive-aggressive ultimatum.

In my own relationships - well, right now there's mostly just my primary. Who I have had stretches of long-distance relationshipping with. In those periods, he would tell me if he had a date, or if he met someone he liked. He's the kind of person who loves to share, he is very romantic. I would tell him if I had a date too, probably not if I met someone I liked, because I take usually several weeks or months to really know for sure if I like someone or not. But when it reached that point, I would let him know. It's never yet happened, but we would tell each other if one of us had sex with a new person. What does happen is we tell each other when we kiss a new person. We agree that we are fluid-bonded, that oral sex without protection is a risk we're both willing to take; but penetrative sex with any other partner requires condoms.

With other relationships, it depends on how private the person is, and how close we are. With my girlfriend, I guess she doesn't have anyone else right now. I would love to hear about it if she did, and be happy for her, because she's the kind of person who benefits from human touch, and she isn't getting so much right now.

With a long-term ex, I told him about everyone I was dating, or intending to proposition. He never dated anyone else (he was extremely passive), but he would tell me about a few women he'd met who he was interested in.

With another ex, the first I knew that she had another girlfriend, was that she asked to invite new girlfriend to a party that I invited her to. This was after months of feeling really distant from her, and like she wasn't very interested in spending time with me anymore. So that frankly hurt a lot. Partly I felt replaced and jealous/envious, and partly I felt like she didn't trust me, and that hurt.

With some sexyfriends, I don't really know who is their partner and who is their friend that they have sex with and who is just their friend. I assume the lines are all pretty blurred, and I'm not that invested in how much information they give me.

With close friends - whether we're sexually involved or not - I'd expect them to tell me that they were seeing someone new, or that they were falling for someone, or that they are getting engaged, or moving house/country.

Other people prefer a "don't ask don't tell" thing, but you'd have to ask someone who does that what they get out of it. I value honesty and being able to give informed consent, and knowing what to expect, and sharing your joys and disappointments with each other.

OP, I suggest that you find some poly support groups in real life if you can! Having that support network, and asking people who you actually know as people what they do, is really important to being happily poly. Or at least it really is for me!!
 
Some people do a more disengaged version of ethical non-monogamy. It's not don't ask, don't tell (DADT) but definitely not tell every detail kind of thing either.

There is broad axis of how much people want to know about what and who their partner is doing. Some want to know everything, down to the nitty-gritty sexual details. Some are happy to share that level of information back. Some just want to know if and when a connection becomes more 'permanent' or 'entangled' (for lack of better terms). Others just want to be informed when something happens that may affect their health (STI) or might dramatically alter the relationship (pregnancy for instance.)

No one is wrong for the level of disclosure they feel comfortable with. But there may be incompatibilties with partners on disclosure. Sometimes that can be massaged with compromises - one person tells more than they normally would while their partner gets less information than they desire.

Perhaps you can reach such a point with your boyfriend. But I don't think he is wrong for not wanting to give you the level of detail you want. It's possible he's hiding something or otherwise being shady, it's true. But it's also possible he just doesn't want to go into great details about things that he considers private between him and who he interacted with. His explanation of why he doesn't want to disclose more made sense to me. He doesn't want to feel like he's gloating to you (look at all the womens I banged!) and he doesn't want to feel controlled. While it might be reasonable for many, it can indeed feel controlling to those people comfortable with not sharing every detail.

You're not wrong either to want more information. But it may be helpful to figure out why you want more information? To be reassured he is being ethical? What would being ethical mean to you in this context? Be specific if this is a concern. Do you not want to hidden to his other partners, no matter how momentary they may be in his life? This is a common fear, of being the 'secret'. Do you want reassurances that you are important to him and not just the designated fuck buddy in that area? (Doesn't sound like that is who you are to him but given this is a long distance, un-entangled relationship, I can see how you might feel that way. Or fear it.) Do you want to feel part of his daily life and see asking him about what is going on for him as a way to do that?

The reason to ask yourself why is if you know what is underneath these fears and feelings, you can ask for exactly what you want. Let's say you want to hear about his day but are fine if he leaves out sexy details about a date he had. Or you are reassured that you are important and valued to him and enjoy hearing about dates he has but you don't 'need' that information to feel secure. Your mileage will vary, of course.
 
Softboom said:
Ok so here is the deal. I went into a relationship not knowing where it was going at all. When we first meet he was honest and upfront about being polyamorous. At the time I had no idea what that really meant or how it worked. I've been slowly learning as we've gone along. I was only taught monogamy growing up. I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems that openness and honesty are two key ingridients to making it work. A little extra background. I am 24 and this is my first relationship. My partner is 44 so he has quite a bit more life experience than me. We are also in a long distance relationship. He says that I am his primary partner.
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Sounds like you have no idea what you have got into and are simply taking his word for whatever he tells you you have and you are left uncomfortably unsure of where you stand.

So here is the problem. Open and honest to me would mean he tells me about his other partners openly with out prompting. Like when he goes out on a date or hooks up with someone. To him he doesn't feel like he needs to share that. In his words he said in our messages last night.

Partner: Well I'm.certainly not hiding I just don't want to be letting yu in on each and every exhaustive detail of going after a girl. That then looses its luster on many levels. Plus if I bring it up it feels like I'm. gloating or rubbing it into yur face or disrespecting what we have. But I don't see it that way. I see what we have is independent and special. But the questions and curiosities have to come from yu. I'm just not about regurgitating my every move or interest. That would be epically crazy and endlessly boring and it would also take out the zest of life to be that under the radar. Meaning I feel entitled to my not feeling my every aspect of my dating life being monitored

I don't feel like I should have to dig for this information. To me when he does not say anything I feel like it's cheating. Especially when we talk about how our days went and what we did everyday! He doesn't even mention a peep about these other women. I don't feel like I need to harp and ask and ask and ask!

I don't want to know all the details! I just feel like I should know he has been with another women either physically or emotionally.
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Sounds like a mismatch where you are supposed to make the adjustments. I wouldn't go for this if I were in your place.

Am I being unreasonable?
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I think you could do with more of a spine. You don't have some cosmic responsibility for making a relationship work if the guy isn't interested in meeting you halfway about it.
 
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