Okay with being canceled on for a partner' feelings?

[1234567]

I assumed it was a universal truth that it was at best annoying when a meta's feelings motivated a partner to cancel a date.

I saw on this board another view.


Are people okay with this kind of cancellation who don't have intrinsic reward (like, your longstanding partner is jealous and it allows you to cancel on your partner if they cancel on you.)

Especially if you are solo poly, rather than nesting partnered yourself?

Assume no health or mental health or childcare challenges to mitigate the request.

And if yoi are okay. , how do you view that?

 

[Emm]

Could you re-state your question? I'm not sure I understand it.

 

[Tinwen]

It's situation to situation.
Yes, I do/would get annoyed, if I'm cancelled on because of the other partner (feelings or not).
But I can understand a miscommunication or a crisis sometimes. "Common knowledge" (I don't even dare say "universal truth") is a good guideline, but life's complicated.

 

[breathemusic]

If I had a meta who was having an emotional breakdown or it was a really serious problem, then I'd be bummed that I got cancelled on, but totally understand.

If my meta was just having a rough day, or feeling jealous or whatever, and I got cancelled on for that, I'd be pissed, but probably let it slide 1 time but have a conversation that just because my meta has some feels, doesn't mean that I should have to have my plans changed and that meta needs to do their own emotional labor. If it kept happening, I'd have to re-evaluate what I want from that relationship.

I currently have a partner where this has happened several times. He felt terrible, I was pissed, but I ultimately worked with them because it came to light that there were in fact some mental health issues going on due to side effects of a medication, and they were working on dealing with it. But the expectation was that this sort of thing was normally not cool as a "standard operating procedure."

 

[rosephase]

If it was a repeating pattern I would be concerned and talk with my partner about my needs and preferences. But I tend to have a lot of space for my partner's lives. Which includes their other partnerships. People get sick, jobs happen, kids happen, emotions happen. If I trust my partner to take care of our relationship then any number of things can change our plans and it doesn't bother me. If this partnership matters deeply to both of us we will find a way to hold space and meet each others needs... or we will part ways.

I find focusing on the "why" of needs not getting met to be a bit useless. If I'm continuously and constantly let down it doesn't matter if it's because of choices they are making around their other partners or if it's their job or if it's just their preference.

When I started dating my partner of seven years he and his wife opened their marriage so we could date. We didn't get to see each other often because we were long distance and his wife's needs came first. I went in with my eyes open. I knew I was going to need to be forgiving and generous. I trusted we were all on the same page and after some time and work it all got a lot easier. But I knew I couldn't come in demanding that they be perfect at poly already. On the flip side my partner of two years has been super understanding as my triad fell apart. I had to cancel dates. I had to change things at the last moment. He was kind and supportive and understanding. He got such a mess of a partner for awhile. But he trusted me and my intensions.

My questions for you are: Do you trust your partner and his intensions? Can you handle making space for his other partnership and their learning curve? Is it worth it to you?

Because if you need folks who are already really good at this complicated, anti-cultural relationship style... you might not want to date folks who are brand spanking new to it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi 1234567,

In general, I don't approve of being canceled on for a partner's feelings. There may be rare exceptions. It's not about dismissing the feelings, it's about keeping one's word. If one promises a date with me, one should keep that promise (unless it's a true emergency). Hopefully that makes sense.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Marcus]

I find focusing on the "why" of needs not getting met to be a bit useless. If I'm continuously and constantly let down it doesn't matter if it's because of choices they are making around their other partners or if it's their job or if it's just their preference.

For me, this is a critical point. If I want to come to a reasonable conclusion about what influences I want to have in my life, I need to look at the influence itself and not quibble about why it is the way it is. I get perspective, and it's important for us to understand the 'whys' of a given situation, but in the end, the influences of our environment are either welcome or they hit one of our boundaries. If they hit a boundary, the nature of our association is going to need to be adjusted until they stop hitting our boundaries.

This is a matter of understanding who we are, what we want in our lives, and what we will not endure. It's hard to get a clear understanding of these concepts, but the journey of figuring them out is worthwhile.

 

[vinsanity0]

For me, this is a critical point. If I want to come to a reasonable conclusion about what influences I want to have in my life, I need to look at the influence itself and not quibble about why it is the way it is. I get perspective, and it's important for us to understand the 'whys' of a given situation, but in the end, the influences of our environment are either welcome or they hit one of our boundaries. If they hit a boundary, the nature of our association is going to need to be adjusted until they stop hitting our boundaries.

This is a matter of understanding who we are, what we want in our lives, and what we will not endure. It's hard to get a clear understanding of these concepts, but the journey of figuring them out is worthwhile.

Same here. I would go so far as to say I would purposely not take into account (within reason) what the reasons are. If it becomes a problem it is simply a problem. I wouldn't make it a problem based only on it had something to do with a meta.

 

[Voyager]

I assumed it was a universal truth that it was at best annoying when a meta's feelings motivated a partner to cancel a date.

I saw on this board another view.


Are people okay with this kind of cancellation who don't have intrinsic reward (like, your longstanding partner is jealous and it allows you to cancel on your partner if they cancel on you.)

Especially if you are solo poly, rather than nesting partnered yourself?

Assume no health or mental health or childcare challenges to mitigate the request.

And if yoi are okay. , how do you view that?

It is possible that, depending on how my statements were read, I may have been the person whose "other view" you're citing. It's possible that I've got nothing to do with it and you're talking about somebody else entirely, of course! But, in case I was communicating unclearly, I want to try again and see if I can explain better.

I, personally, would not be okay with being cancelled on for any reason having to do with a partner that I wouldn't equally well be okay with being cancelled on for a platonic friend. That is, if either one were suicidal, or had just found out their dad had cancer, or something like that, then of course I'm okay with cancelling plans. If it's simply a matter of having a bad day, though, I'm not only not going to be comfortable with it, I won't accept it. I don't get into relationships in which I am put second to somebody else's relationship with my partner; and if I find myself in one by accident, I get out of it again as soon as I notice the situation.

The thing is, I consider it my own boundary that I won't date people who prioritize their other partner over me. I do not consider it my right to demand that my partner put my needs, or their plans with me, on an equal level with those of their other partner... it's completely their right to make that choice, and I won't argue or complain about it. But it's also my right to decide whom to date, and I don't choose to date people who do that.

So I do think there's something kind of wrong with complaining or objecting to a partner's choosing to prioritize their other partner's feelings over your plans with them, but that doesn't mean that I would feel okay with a partner who made that choice. In fact, I wouldn't even keep a partner who made that choice.

It's rather like partners who expect monogamy from their romantic relationships. There's nothing wrong with their doing that. I don't have the right to try and pressure them into not doing that. I do, however, have the right to choose not to date anybody who expects monogamy from their partners, and I exercise that right consistently.

Same with prioritizing another partner's bad day over my plans with them. It's not something I'd complain about, or demand different treatment. It is something I'd walk away over, at least if it were consistent.

 

[1234567]

Voyager, I had a reply that seems to have been eaten, but you really got me thinking.

I have long assumed that in a relationship, you are responsible for asking for what you need and want.

I'm starting to see that while there is good-- there is a level of asking that you should never have to do.

I think I need to figure out what crosses the line.

Here is the line for me at the moment.


------------


Destructive to have to ask:

Would you treat me with basic respect?

Would you keep your word to me when possible and in your control, and not actually harmful to you to do?

Would you apologize when appropriate?

There's this truth to poly or self-respect that I discovered years back. I'm immovable on it, and have communicated that. Would you stop asking me to deviate from it? Or alternatively: would you stop acting like it's optional?

Would you create space for my ideas in the relationship?

Will you take my view into account?

Will you take my feelings into account?

Will you do the work to fix a known problem?

If something needs an explanation to feel good- will you explain?

Can I have influence in my own relationship?


Acceptable to have to ask:

Could you use these words and say it in this way with me? (for situations where the words themselves are being triggers, but the idea works.)

There's this idea I've been tossing around- which is new growth to me- what do you think of it? Do you think that would be doable in this relationship?

Here's my experience and what I think is a good idea. How can we take what I know and what you know and create something that works?

I'm tempted to interpret things this way when I see you do y. That's not consistent with your words or who I know you to be. Is there more information that would shed clarity on this?

I need reassurance. Could you give it to me?

I need clarity. Could you give it to me?

These are my boundaries in poly and life. Do they work with yours?

 

[1234567]

I think a scheduling conflict probably brings up "can I ask for clarity- are you saying that your wife has power to veto our plans? Because that's something I can't live with. I know that to be destructive- how can we take what you know and I know and make it work?"

And I'm probably asking, "will you give me the basic respect of keeping your word to me" and feeling humiliated for doing that.

 

[dragonette]

I'd be upset if the feelings were jealousy of my relationship with the person, or general bad day type stuff.

If a death in the family or something like that where my partner would want to cancel for any friend, then I'd totally understand that (and presumably it wouldn't happen often enough to seriously affect my needs).

There's in-between stuff, though. More than a bad day, but less than a death in the family. In that situation, I think it would be important to be asked how I felt about it. Like "hey, my other partner is in a really bad way today. how would you feel if" [describe proposed solution that includes rescheduling with me or something]. Then I could say "this date is really important to me and I will be really upset if you cancel," or "sure, sounds good" or propose another solution.

Unilaterally canceling, as in "my other partner has an issue, so I'm doing this" would not go over as well. And I would expect to have the same ability to get my partner's time and attention if needed (although I'm used to dealing with my feelings alone, so that doesn't really happen).

 

[Voyager]

Voyager, I had a reply that seems to have been eaten, but you really got me thinking.

I have long assumed that in a relationship, you are responsible for asking for what you need and want.

I'm starting to see that while there is good-- there is a level of asking that you should never have to do.

I think I need to figure out what crosses the line.

I agree with pretty much all of this. One thing I try to be very conscious of, though, is that there are things which I've concluded are destructive for me to have to ask, or not be able to expect, in a relationship, which are also directly contradictory with other things which other people may have concluded are destructive for them to have to ask, or not be able to expect.

The basic mono/poly difference is one of the most obvious of these. It's a basic piece of the way I live my life, that I'm unwilling to have to ask my partner's permission to date somebody else. It is equally a basic piece of the way many other people live their lives, that they're unwilling to have to ask someone to be monogamously faithful to them... they feel it should be an inherent part of having a serious relationship.

I don't think that either of these is wrong. But they're totally incompatible. So I don't date people who see the world through that lens.

Similarly, there are people whose structure of polyamory is, I should not have to ask my partner to understand that I put my primary partner first. I should be able to expect that, if they're going to date me knowing that I have a primary partner, they are signing up for secondary treatment, and will not try to pressure me to do things which may be harmful to my primary partner or my relationship with them.

And I don't think this is an unreasonable boundary for them to set -- it's just one I, personally, choose not to accept. My own boundaries and my own self-respect are incompatible with it, and I move on and look for someone else to date if that's the kind of relationship I am offered.

What I don't do, however, is to take the relationship and then attempt to change their boundaries to suit my needs. That's not fair of me, any more than it would be fair for them to get involved with me and then try and change my boundaries to suit theirs.

We're both better off dating people whose boundaries mesh with our own in the first place.

 

[Ravenscroft]

that there are things which I've concluded are destructive for me to have to ask

This may be a topic for another thread entirely, so I hope I'm not dragging the topic too askew.

My thought, though, is that if something can't be discussed, then it's already toxic & the poison is spreading, rapidly or insidiously. Avoiding medical attention does nothing to cure a health problem.

 

[Voyager]

This may be a topic for another thread entirely, so I hope I'm not dragging the topic too askew.

My thought, though, is that if something can't be discussed, then it's already toxic & the poison is spreading, rapidly or insidiously. Avoiding medical attention does nothing to cure a health problem.

Well, can't be discussed isn't the same thing from shouldn't have to be requested. I mean, I can discuss consent issues with my husband comfortably when the subject comes up, but if I don't get my right to say, "Not now, thanks," respected automatically, without having to explicitly ask him, "When you ask for sex and I say no, won't you please consider respecting that and not pushing further?" then something is pretty badly wrong. I should not have to ask for that; I should get it because it's baseline human decency... but that still doesn't make it impossible to talk about.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

And I'm probably asking, "will you give me the basic respect of keeping your word to me" and feeling humiliated for doing that.

This is resonating with me, from the other end. I suspect I sometimes hurt people this way more than they let on...

I'm very spontaneous. I have a bad habit of making plans and then not wanting to keep them when the time comes, because I'm no longer in the mood.

I think it would be nice if I started answering "I'll try" or "that sounds fun, let's see how I'm feeling that day" rather than making commitments and then sometimes breaking them. I feel overwhelmed when I have a lot of plans in a single week. I need downtime.

This has nothing to do with other partners. Sometimes I break plans just so I can sit home alone and read.

 

[Voyager]

This is resonating with me, from the other end. I suspect I sometimes hurt people this way more than they let on...

I'm very spontaneous. I have a bad habit of making plans and then not wanting to keep them when the time comes, because I'm no longer in the mood.

I think it would be nice if I started answering "I'll try" or "that sounds fun, let's see how I'm feeling that day" rather than making commitments and then sometimes breaking them. I feel real overwhelmed when I have a lot of plans in a single week. I need downtime.

This has nothing to do with other partners. Sometimes I break plans just so I can sit home alone and read.

I have had to do precisely what you say you're thinking of doing... and so far, it works very well for me. Because of my fibromyalgia, I can't predict when I will be in any condition to be capable of doing something very much more than a few hours in advance. So, when I'm invited to an event a day or more away, my usual response is, "Sure, if I'm feeling well enough," or "Barring energy issues interfering, I'd love to," and that gives people enough of a heads-up that I might not make it for them mostly not to feel too bad if I don't.

Occasionally, I run into somebody who cannot cope with someone breaking plans on them, even with warning. Such people tend not to last long in my social circle, for both of our sanity.