Opening up a mixed-orientation marriage?

TurnedTurte

New member
Hi, I'm TurnedTurtle (M59), married to W (F56) since 1993 (first date in 1987), with one adult son.

Two years ago we came to realize that ours is a mixed-orientation marriage (W is ace) -- we came to this conclusion while trying to bring sex back into what had largely been a sexless marriage during reconciliation from W's asymmetrical emotional affair with another man (asymmetrical, because it was basically W experiencing limerence for the OM). D-day was about three years ago.

For many reasons divorce is not very palatable, and our attempt at sexual compromise didn't really work out (see above), so that leaves either me accepting a life without any physical intimacy (which is also not very palatable), or opening up our marriage ...

So here I am exploring and trying to learn whether and how we could maybe make this work. Unfortunately W is not very enthusiastic about the idea -- she's said "you keep bringing this up, you must really want it, so just go ahead..." Of course, I don't want to "just go ahead," I want to talk about it and find out more about what her concerns (etc.) are...
 
I get confused when things are not in chronological order. Let me repeat back what I think you said in my own words.

Three years ago, Wife had an emotional affair. It ended.
Somewhere in here -- the marriage had become largely sexless.
Two years ago -- you and W realized that this is a mixed orientation marriage. W is asexual. You are not.
Some kind of compromise was attempted. Didn't pan out. (<-- I'm not clear on what the compromise actually was.)
So now you are at this place:
  • Stay in a sexless marriage? Not palatable.
  • Same compromise that didn't work before? Not palatable.
  • Open the Marriage?
    • W is not enthusiastic. Says to "just go ahead" like stop talking to her about it. Like she just agrees to make this conversation go away.
    • But you want to talk about it and find out what her actual concerns are. Obtain actual consent.
    • So... not palatable to you without talking this out.
  • Give her some time to become more willing to talk to you about Open Marriage.
    • How much time is reasonable?
    • Is this palatable?
  • Give up trying to talk to her about it and "just go ahead" into Open Marriage then. Not palatable.
  • Divorce? Not palatable.
Is that true? If so... and I'm guessing... Are the choices in order of least stink to greatest stink? Or would you change the order? Any you would simply strike out and not bother with?

I think you could do your soul searching and get that list of options in order.

If there was a great smelling choice you'd pick that first right off the bat.

But when there isn't and all the choices stink? Sometimes one has to reflect and then pick the least stinky choice then. And try to move their life forward.

Galagirl
 
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Greetings TurnedTurte,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Opening up a marriage is quite a challenge, in this very monogamous world. Even more of a challenge when your wife won't talk to you about it. Have you asked her what her concerns were? and if so, how did she respond? Maybe she just wants you to try it and have something go wrong, so that she could say, "I knew something like this would happen," or, "I told you so." But, if putting sex back in the marriage doesn't work for her, you need to do something.

I hope Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

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Welcome aboard!
 
@GalaGirl - a detailed timeline for you ;-)

-1987 first date
-1989 move in together -- looking back now, I can recognize her asexuality even back then -- never initiating, starfishing, just going along with it because she knew that's what guys wanted, etc... She was my first (and so far my only); she had had sex with a bf the year before I met her.
-1992 I finish grad school and got a job
-1993 we move closer to job, W gets a job, we buy a house, and get married.
-1998 son born -- this, when we were actively trying to get pregnant, really was the only time W had much interest in sex
-2003 I came across a book title "The Sex-Starved Marriage" and asked W to read it with me and discuss -- she did not want to talk about it.

-2006ish, tired of the rejection, I largely stopped trying to initiate and took care of things myself (even more). I still paid attention to the cryptic symbols she used on the family calendar to keep track of her menstrual cycle and would try to use that information to my advantage. Sometimes I would get lucky if a) I remembered and got the timing right, b) everything else was going well, and c) the moon was in the right phase (or whatever other random factor might have been at play....). So we're down to having sex somewhere between 2 times a year to once every two years....

-2011 W and I took over the management of her family's (seasonal summer) business in another state while maintaining our residence and my "day job", splitting our time a lot. A lot of commuting for me in the spring and fall every year. We make a good team in the business, with complimentary skill sets.

-2016 son goes off to college (first semester on another continent!) - so empty nest syndrome kicking in for W

-late 2016 into 2017, W starts new (seasonal winter) job with a new charismatic boss (OM), meets new friends associated with him, etc... Clearly a lot of distance had opened up between W and me by this time, she has subsequently said she felt like we were just roommates...

- spring 2017 something triggers me to ask if she is having an affair with OM, she says no, so I say "so you are not sleeping with him, then?" she leans in to me and says "we have become very close, but I am not going there" (i.e. the bedroom). I think you're not going there with me either, so what's the diff... rugsweep

- fall 2017 I'm pre-occupied dealing with my mother's situation (getting her into nursing home, arranging for medicaid, cleaning out her house and trying to give it back to the reverse mortgage company)

- winter 2018 my mother dies, and now I have her insolvent estate to deal with....

- late july 2018 something else triggers me to start digging in to what's going on with W. I find some e-mails that are pretty suspect but not smoking guns, join an internet support group for people experiencing infidelity, and finally get to make a trip back home from summer job to a) meet with divorce attorney, b) get detailed phone logs from provider, c) meet with the local private investigator (raises eyebrows at phone logs, but really not much he could do for me, besides he knows the OM so conflict of interest), d) borrow the book "NOT just friends" from the library, and e) meet with a friend of mine who knows both W and OM. Three years ago today (August 5) I confront her about her relationship with OM. I did talk to OM's wife to get her perspective as well; she explained that OM was indeed a charismatic person who talks to a lot of people; she had see all the communications between them; she did think that the first season W and he might have been too close, but she had no concerns about the second season... this was largely consistent with everything else I had been able to gather.

- fall 2018/spring 2019, we are working on reconciliation, I am seeing a psychologist for individual counseling, reading books, getting support online. We had a lot of talks, and I think some epiphanies for both of us about the other and where were coming from. On my list for W was that we try having sex again. I would ask her hours in advance, she would agree (or not), and then we'ld do it when the time came, about once every two weeks (or so). It was pretty perfunctory. There were times when she might start humping me harder and I would think, oh wait, maybe she is actually getting something out of this, I need to hold out longer -- but in reality I think she was just trying to get it over and done with sooner. In a discussion on another forum about the difference between merely having sex and making love, I had used the word "asexual" to describe her without knowing it was a thing -- further research lead me to the AVEN site and the community there of sexual partners of asexuals. Sex with W was now off the table, we'ld tried it, it was very hard for her. While I am not sure she has actually declared herself as asexual (she doesn't need a label, she knows who she is), she has agreed that ours is indeed a mixed-orientation marriage.

- summer 2019 as I learned more about asexuality, all the "hopium" that I had been on for the last couple decades (that somehow things would magically get better and we could have a vibrant sex life) all drained away, and I became very depressed - my life sucked, divorce would suck worse, and committing suicide was the suckiest option but an option none-the-less.

- fall 2019 I rescued an old dog and he was what I needed to get me out of my funk, he really bonded with me.

- end of winter 2020 before covid really got going, there was an event where W said something to me with clear contempt in her voice. In that moment I knew I needed to leave; I couldn't sleep and spent the night looking at real estate. As I was looking at apartments, I realized none of them would take my dog (and where would I set up my woodworking tools?), so I started to look at houses, old fixer-uppers on some acreage, and I started to imagine making a new life for myself. This new vision of a not so bad alternative gave me the strength to step back from the precipice and talk to W about our options going forward. But then covid changed everything.

- spring 2020 We were all thrust suddenly into working and learning remotely, but we had an amazing experience with a bunch college students (our son and his friends) living with us in quarantine to finish their senior year together. We were very worried about our business(es) and whether we would be able to open at all (so I put in for PPP funding), but eventually we were able to open and ultimately flourished -- it was on one of our best years ever.

- fall 2020 my "day job" went back to work in person, but needing to reduce staff, they offered an attractive early retirement package. I put in for it, waiting to hear -- our long term plan had been that when I retired, we would move to our summer business place and build a new home there (replacing an old one). Then W's father (with whom I was very close) died, and so W has been dealing with his estate (much more complicated than my mothers, but she will inherit the business that we run together, among other things). Ultimately, I was offered the retirement package effective June 25, 2021. W thought we should sell our house there while the market was hot, so late fall and early winter were devoted to preparing the house for sale. Unfortunately, my dear old dog, my buddy, died at the end of January, just before our house went live on the market. The house sold quickly for a good offer, respecting our timeline (June 1 closing date), so we went to work moving, taking a truck load over pretty much every weekend (we had been in that house for 28 years, so it was a lot of work).

- I am still contemplating my options for making our mixed orientation marriage work (I say my options because I'm the one who is not being satisfied in the situation) -- compromise sex is off the table (see above), I continue to live a celibate life (unsatisfied), I divorce her (which now, given the commitments made, would leave me as a lonely old unemployed homeless person...), or we open up the marriage. At some point W said that she didn't think an opening up would work for her, and I shared that I had concluded that opening up would not (by itself) help me (directly) with being able to express my love for her (you know, physically), or feel loved by her; further I worried that having a physical relationship with someone else would pull me away from W.

- Taking opening up off the table, too, leaves me with two choices - continued celibacy (unsatisfactory) or divorce (would suck) -- I love her, I love the businesses we've built together, we get along well, we work well together, we compliment each other (skill-wise, etc..), I love this place and the joint friends we have -- but I just want to be touched, to feel loved, to have an intimate connection -- with someone (her so much more than anyone, but she's just not up to it <cry>). Physical touch, not necessarily sex, seems to be my primary love language.

- I don't like the options. But I have to take action to make change happen, it won't happen magically by itself. Thus I asked if we could reconsider the idea of opening up. This is when she responded "you keep bringing this up, you must really want it, so just go ahead..." It's not the enthusiastic consent that I read about as being a necessary pre-requisite for successfully opening up.
 
Wow. Did not expect that. I was just trying to figure out if my reading comprehension was ok enough.

But perhaps writing out a detailed timeline for yourself helps you decide what to do next.

I'm sorry at one point you felt suicidal. (If it happens again and you are in the US please consider calling 800-273-8255 for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.)

It is one thing to get married already knowing your partner is asexual.

It's another thing to discover this after marriage and have to figure out if that's a dealbreaker because that's not the marriage you signed up for.
Or if it is something that you can live with, and make new marriage agreements that allow you to have other lovers in an ethical way with all parties consenting. Which is ALSO not the marriage you signed up for from the sound of it.

You have been through A LOT. I'm sorry to hear about death of your mom, her dad, and your dog.

You JUST retired this summer and moved out of a 28 year old home. You had your mom's estate to contend with. And now W is dealing with her father's estate. It's ok to take some time to REST. Just kinda mull things over but not pull the trigger on anything just yet.

We expect our relationship with our children to change. They don't stay infants. Your son grew up and went off to college right? Well... your relationship with your wife is changing too.

You sound worried about "things pulling me away more from W" but you know what? In some ways that's been going on a while.

Perhaps it's ok to let go with one hand and catch hold with the other. Maybe letting the marriage part go. And reaching out for the parts that DO still work. Don't bend into pretzels trying to "save the marriage." Think more about "save the people" instead.

What would that look like? If the marriage relationship shape doesn't fit anymore, what relationship shapes COULD fit better?

Do you really want to open up and do open relationships? Or is that part of the bargaining stage of grief talking? Like trying to pretzel to make it so you don't have to divorce her?

I guess because I'm just some internet stranger and I don't have the emotional connections in this situation than you do... have you thought about this way to move forward?

Yes. It is ok to be sad that you love her and want that intimate sexual connection with her... but as an asexual person she doesn't want it, you can't force yourself on her or force her to want it... so it's something to grieve. No more "hopium."

And since she's not up for open marriage talk/consent in a way that would make you feel ok doing that? Either move forward with it because that's the best you can get or skip it because you weren't really into that anyway. HOW you date other people? You can deal with that later on. You don't have to be doing that right now.

Give yourselves permission to move on and change what doesn't work -- a marriage shape that is now not fitting right -- like a coat one outgrew or something. That seems to be the most important thing. (Is it?)

And talk about keeping what DOES work -- coparents to son, friends who love each other, being good business partners that work well together and have complimentary skills, sharing a community of friends, etc.

Then review the long term plan and talk about adapting it to present conditions and what separated and/or post divorce life might look like.

You retired already. Where are you living now since you house sold and you moved out? A temporary apartment? Her dad's house while she sorts the estate stuff? How long do you expect to be here in this place? (You don't have to actually say here. Just trying to help you think things out.)

The plan to move to the summer business place and thinking about building that new home. Where are you in that process?
  • How about the original floor plan with a "mother-in-law cottage" in back for one of you?
  • Or two smaller homes that are separated but on the same property?
  • Or a duplex floor plan situation?
  • However it works out so you each have your own home / space at the property? Space that allows for grandkid(s) to visit if son goes down that path?

I know finances can be an obstacle especially with two recent parent funerals, and then thinking out this remodel thing, and then thinking out the costs of divorce.

Some people function as "separated, married just on paper" because they can't afford a divorce or they want to stick with some of the benefits being "married on paper" provides. That might be something else to talk out with W.

It's a tough place to be in. I do sympathize.

But life isn't a dress rehearsal. You only get the one. So I suggest you do your soul searching and figure out how you want to be living the next chapter of your life. Not RUSHING it, but also not stuck in limbo forever either. You are right in that you have to take action to create the changes because YOU are the author of your own life.

Galagirl
 
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