Opening Up a Mono Marriage and Wanting a Non-Hierarchical Poly Relationship

K

kat1234

New member
Hi, this is my first time posting.

My wife and I (both females) have been in a monogamous relationship for 14 years (10 of which we've been married). We have a 10 yo son, whom we parent together really well and we have a really strong, solid, loving, and caring relationship. We love each other deeply.

I have suspected for decades (even before she and I got together) that I am polyamorous. This side of me has mainly ebbed during during our relationship, though I have had a couple of instances where it became more dominant when I was crushing hard on someone else. Each time, she and I, through hard work and therapy worked through it and continued to deepen our monogamous relationship.

About a month ago, my need to be polyamorous resurfaced with a vengeance. At that time, I wasn't attracted to anyone in particular, I just knew with certainty, for the first time, that I need more than what my current, amazing wife could give. We talked and decided to start researching, exploring the concepts, and finding a poly and queer friendly therapist.

Since then, I met a man with whom I'm feeling a real emotional/romantic connection. The feeling is mutual. We haven't kissed or beyond yet, but we've been talking/texting daily. My feelings for him have made me almost certain of what I've known all along: I'm polyamorous and I don't want to wait any longer to start living my life that way. And, I don't want to do any hierarchical stuff (primary/secondary relationships). I want non-coercive, non-hierarchical relationships.

So, last week, I told my wife all this. She, like the amazing woman she is, responded that even though she is 100% monogamous, she's willing and open to explore opening the relationship, but she needs me to put him on hold, which, to me, feels hierarchical and coercive. Although I COMPLETELY get where she is coming from and am amazed by her generosity and openness, I am not willing to put things with him on hold. I do, however, want to talk about what boundaries Jess needs to set for herself and vice versa (not rules for the other).

We went to a couples therapist yesterday who has a lot of poly experience and she said she wouldn't work with us unless I agreed to not have sex with him. I've been saying all along that I'm not interested in jumping into bed with him, but my wife and the therapist wanted my promise that I would not become sexually involved with him. The therapist said, the minute I do that, it becomes an affair and that's the only thing we'll be able to focus on in therapy.

Here are my questions:
1. Am i being unrealisitc, selfish for feeling this way: I love and adore my wife and want very badly for us to stay together. However, after decades of denying my poly identity to myself and others, i don't want to wait any longer, especially when I've met someone I really like. And, liking him is actually deepening my attraction, love, and appreciation for my wife.
2. What are some specific things folks have done to comfort and reassure their existing partner that you can both feel the NRE AND still be so happy and grateful in your existing relationship?
3. What does "FWB" mean? I couldn't find it in the glossary.

Thank you very much for any advice you can offer
 
FWB stands for Friend With Benefits, which is can mean anything from someone you do friend things with and also sex, to someone who you see semi regularly but only for sex.

I think I know how you are feeling. When I realized I was in love with a friend who clearly loved me back, I felt incredibly driven to find a way to be together. I did not want to hurt my husband but had I found myself in the same time zone as my boyfriend I did not think we could keep our hands off each other.

It is known as New Relationship Energy, basically falling in love. It involves all kinds of happy chemicals flowing through your system. It can be very intoxicating and fun but, like other forms of intoxication, can lead to poor decision making.

You are not willing to give up the chance to be intimate with your new guy, but could you manage to be willing to postpone it? If your mutual feelings are solid they will still be there later, and if they are not then you may not want to mess up your relationship with your wife over them. The important thing is to try to connect with your rational side through the "I NEED this NOW" fog. You may need it but it is probably not as urgent as it feels. That was my experience anyway.

Leetah
 
Yes, you are being a little unrealistic. You can't just jump into this thing full force and leave your wife in the dust. That is, if you want to keep her.

These things take time. One way to reassure her is to postpone things with this guy as she requested. The therapist is correct. Without her consent to non-monogamy it would just be an affair. After that she would have zero trust in you. That is no way to start out poly.

I get your wanting non-hierarchical, but that is something you will need to ease into. No, I don"t think her asking you to wait is hierarchical. She just needs time to process it. Try putting yourself in the shoes of someone who is being told all they believed about their relationship is not true. That is not something that can be overcome overnight. Maybe not even 100 nights.
 
Hello kat1234,

Is it possible you could promise to temporarily refrain from sex with this new guy? If it's only a temporary promise, then it could expire after your wife gets a little more comfortable with the idea. When your wife says, "Put him on hold," what does she mean? Does she just mean no sex? Does she mean no contact at all? Something else? What's her reason for wanting you to put him on hold?

It isn't easy when you want to go poly, you know it is you, you know you don't want to wait any longer. And your wife is putting the brakes on the whole thing. I am sure you do not want to lose your wife, so what can you do? I sympathize with your situation, you are walking a tightrope. I hope you and your wife can get things worked out, and that (this site and) the therapist can help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Well, kat1234, this isn't going to be pretty, & for that I apologize, but there's many things going on here, most mutually exclusive of other points.

You're standing at the end of your marriage. You really ought (IMO, anyway) figure out how you got here, what your next steps will be, & what your intended goal actually is.

kat1234 said:
What does "FWB" mean?
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It's "friend with benefits," the polite term for fuck buddy, someone handy for getting occasionally laid but recurrent enough to avoid guilt over "casual sex" yet generally free of messy emotional entanglements. Not judging: I've got a few FWBs that I treasure.

However, as this was at the end of your post, I came away with the feeling that this question is a "yellow flag" after repeated protestations of how important your wife (& your relationship with her) is to you. So I went back through, attending to nuance.

First of all, CHOOSE ONE --
  • Opening Up a Mono Marriage
OR
  • Wanting a Non-Hierarchical Poly Relationship
I advise against "opening up" a mono dyad -- the "marriage+1" myth usually fails badly in any case. But defining the situation in that hierarchal fashion thus entirely excludes any chance of being non-hierarchal.

I advise against attempting it in the name of "trying poly": nothing wrong with mutually agreeing to shift from strict monogamy to "exceptions" (swinging, open marriage, etc.). However, generalized nonmonogamy is MUCH easier than learning the polyamory skill set: communication, introspection, honesty, compassion, risk, etc. All those things can be acquired, but take some measure of time AND experience.

kat1234 said:
I have suspected for decades that I am polyamorous.
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You're not, if you haven't worked to develop the skill set. More likely, what you are is "not naturally monogamous." It has taken much effort (from both of you) to suppress that "unnatural craving."

Now, polyamory has become a rationalization for breaking free of the strictures of monogamy, & incidentally for moving along from a tired old relationship (probably "with deep regrets") & into something shiny-new & idealized.
kat1234 said:
my need to be polyamorous
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As you have presented the situation, there is no such thing. Your "need" is to be free from monogamy, & maybe free from your former partner.
kat1234 said:
after decades of denying my poly identity to myself and others
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If this were the NHL, that'd get a penalty for embellishment. You CHOSE that denial, whether from some sort of fear or in hopes of dishonestly gaining benefit from others. You need to own that choice, as well as the decision to change your mind.

kat1234 said:
We decided to start finding a poly and queer friendly therapist.
Click to expand...
Your situation won't be solved in one or two sessions, much less one or two months. Generally, looking for "friendly" shrinks is a dodge, a stall, a way of delaying the situation until it gets irreconcilable.

Though I'm glad you did begin therapy in this specific context, you seem to hope for someone here to say the "ground rules" are unfair, & even leaving outs for yourself:
kat1234 said:
I'm not interested in jumping into bed with him, BUT...
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Your therapist is being quite strict -- good thing; you might actually derive longterm benefit if you stick with it.

Your relationship is over, was over some time ago. It was premised upon monogamy: the two of you had a contract. Your overwhelming desire to not be tied down to one person already effectively ended that contract, though she's hung in there gamely. You can attempt to start a new relationship with her, with mutual understanding of the ACTUAL premises.

kat1234 said:
I want non-coercive, non-hierarchical relationships.
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You have unilaterally decided that what you feel you need to do for yourself is of utmost priority, & that your wife needs to get on board with that, & that any hesitation on her part is unfair & belittling to you:
kat1234 said:
she needs me to put him on hold, which, to me, feels hierarchical and coercive.

I am not willing to put things with him on hold.
Click to expand...

kat1234 said:
What are some specific things ... to comfort and reassure their existing partner that you can both feel the NRE AND still be so happy and grateful in your existing relationship?
Click to expand...
You earn trust by demonstrating trustworthiness. You work WITH a partner rather than making "my way or the highway" demands. You show, every step of the way, that your words aren't empty sentiment. You recognize that NRE is by definition NOT "a real emotional connection."

Unless your Shiny New interest is extensively experienced in polyamory, my (experienced) guess is that he won't want to be a separate relationship in addition to your marriage.
 
I am going to guess. I might guess wrong. To me it sounds like you are a bit impatient.

1. Am i being unrealisitc, selfish for feeling this way: I love and adore my wife and want very badly for us to stay together. However, after decades of denying my poly identity to myself and others, i don't want to wait any longer, especially when I've met someone I really like. And, liking him is actually deepening my attraction, love, and appreciation for my wife.
Click to expand...

Well, how are you waiting? Wife agreed to Open and she's willing to go there. You guys are transitioning and talking to therapist so there's suport during the transition. Where is waiting? :confused: It seems to be chugging along.

but she needs me to put him on hold, which, to me, feels hierarchical and coercive. Although I COMPLETELY get where she is coming from and am amazed by her generosity and openness, I am not willing to put things with him on hold. I do, however, want to talk about what boundaries Jess needs to set for herself and vice versa (not rules for the other).
Click to expand...

You were the one denying your poly identity to self and others. I get wanting to break free of that and live more authentically. But does it have to mean you rush your wife in HER process just because you were denying yourself on yours before and now feel like you want to hurry up and move on? :confused:

I don't get the "feels hierarchical and coercive." Was she demanding you put things on hold or making a request ?

It's like you want to already be there and done without doing the actual work of opening well for ALL parties. Perhaps impatient or something. How would being impatient and rushing help you remain in right relationship with wife during transition so you can attain what you want in the end -- a non-heirarchical poly thing with wife in your network?

If she's coming across as demanding -- ask her in therapy to stop doing that and make requests instead.

If she's made a request and asked you to put stuff on hold but wasn't clear? You can ask clarifying questions to find out what she means by that in better detail so you know better what she's seeking. Maybe you want something very specific (ex: dates, kissing and cuddling are fine, but hold off on intercourse until we all have clean sex health labs and do X therapy appointments to talk about sex health info and boundaries. )

Maybe she needs some time to get her thoughts together before she can be specific.

If she was super clear already? You can say "No, I'm not willing and able to do that. I am willing to do this instead __(your list of things)____." Reply honestly. Negotiate.

2. What are some specific things folks have done to comfort and reassure their existing partner that you can both feel the NRE AND still be so happy and grateful in your existing relationship?
Click to expand...

You could ask your wife what she needs to be reassured about directly. Because every person is different.

She says to hold him off... On hold how long? In what way?

You say you don't want to jump into bed with him. If wife wants you to hold off for X weeks, or X therapy appointments... is it that big a deal to wait? If you have already waited years, waiting a bit more doesn't seem like much esp if ultimately it gets you want you want. :confused:

Or maybe you want some clarity like hold off on WHAT? Like these activities are green light NOW... just hold off on THOSE activities for a bit....

http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf

Maybe you could both go through the list and color code what is green, what is yellow and what is red light. Then after X weeks update it to expand options. You get to do some more stuff, wife gets to see you don't go NRE bonkers with it, everyone can relax and get through the transition time with less upheaval.

It may be wife wants to see that you can handle NRE and not get all crazy. There's enough posts on here from NRE gone wrong. It's not unreasonable to worry about poly hell things. Is that what it is? Wife is worrying about poly hell?

And on your side it may be you don't want wife foot dragging or throwing up walls. That would be a problem from your side. Is that what it is? You worry that wife will keep throwing up walls and that will feel constricting? Maybe you want to read this together. http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf

I think you guys could talk this out and find common ground in the middle. Where things move fast enough for you and slow enough for her.

Galagirl
 
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I think everyone above has offered you great food for thought, as well as some empathetic advice, taking into account how BOTH you and your wife may be feeling.

The one thing I'll stress is that... yes, I believe you're being rather unrealistic to expect that a long-term partner in what hitherto seemed to be a relatively healthy and happy relationship (i.e. your beloved wife) will have already processed her feelings and the attendant questions and insecurities a situation like this must surely conjure in her mind and heart, after only a few weeks.

I really do think it's asking too much at this stage, to expect her willing compliance when it comes to "converting" her primary/preferential status within the relationship to the same level as a man you've only just met, and who she presumably hasn't, or knows very little about. That must seem like a pretty threatening situation to someone who's been your "one and only" for so long, as well as the co-parent to your child.

She probably feels like you're rushing/pressuring her or being too demanding, too early - instead of allowing her time to process each step of this transition in a gradual fashion - and I think this is where the therapist is coming from also.

However, when they (therapist, wife) asked you not to become sexually involved with your new love interest, or to hold off on progressing the relationship... what exactly do they mean by this, in your eyes?

Does it mean you're required to have ZERO contact with this new man EVER; essentially ending the relationship before it's begun? No contact (including sex, dating) for a specified period of time, while your wife adjusts from a monogamous to a polyamorous mindset? OR something else? Get your wife (and the therapist) to specify their terms. You do not have to abide by unreasonable terms, but I don't see asking you to wait a little while, while you and your wife attend therapy and do some reading on the subject as a couple, as being unreasonable - especially given the length of time you've been in a mono relationship.

After that time (a few weeks - a couple of months, perhaps), if Mr New and Shiny is still waiting in the wings, you'll know HE is seriously interested and therefore worth the wait, AND you'll have had time to assure your wife of her importance in your life and that you value her emotional health. This is all presuming you're being honest with yourself here and do NOT want to end your marriage. If your wife is truly open to the idea and works on her side of things, you will then be free to date this guy... though I still think it'd be wise to not to rush from dating/making out to full penetrative sex and insisting your new partner be "equal" in the (non)hierarchy, straight off the bat.
 
Ravenscroft said:
Based on odds alone, admittedly. No mention of the man's other partners seems to indicate none; same for no mention of poly experience. It has earmarks of a variant HBB script; my gut says cowboying, or looking for a threesome.
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Interesting -

So, kat1234, what is Mr. New Guy looking for in all of this?
 
Thanks, everyone, for your responses. You've given me a lot to think about. BTW, the "What's 'FWB'?" question was completely unrelated. I just didn't know the acronym.

If you're reading this and you practice non-hierarchical, non-coercive polyamory, would you mind indicating that in your post. I could use some role-models. Thanks.
 
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of the regulars here believe that poly is non-coercive by definition.
 
vinsanity0 said:
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of the regulars here believe that poly is non-coercive by definition.
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Agreed.

I am in a non-hierarchical poly V.

Kat, I was in a monogamous marriage for over a decade with Kay prior to going poly. My wife is still monogamous and is happy with my extra relationships. It can be done. That being said, I know that one of the reasons it worked was I waited on a sexual relationship for six months while we read the books and had conversations. The idea that we were changing from monogamous to non-monogamous felt like I was really breaking the rules and she had to internally figure out whether it was "breaking the rules" that caused a problem or being non-monogamous caused the problem. Had I rushed or forced it, I don't think we would be in the same place now.
 
kat1234 said:
https://www.morethantwo.com/polyamorywithoutrules.html
https://www.morethantwo.com/blog/2014/10/relationship-bor
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You linked to a website that is often given out as a referral here, so I'm familiar with it. Still, I'm not sure what you mean by non-coercive polyamory.
I'd say that most people here recognize the different roles and aspects of each relationship, but don't have a hierarchy or rate their relationships in order of worthiness and importance. For instance, you won't see any regular member using the terms primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. and you won't see any regular member supporting the concept of veto power. You also won't see any regular member throwing her weight around because she got there first. Everyone who sticks around here has a pretty clear sense of the importance of emotional generosity and respect for the needs of all partners, simply because they are human beings.




vinsanity0 said:
I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of the regulars here believe that poly is non-coercive by definition.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've never heard of coercive poly. How would that even work?
 
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Re (from kat1234):
"If you're reading this and you practice non-hierarchical, non-coercive polyamory, would you mind indicating that in your post."
Click to expand...

I guess I would fit that category. I am in a closed V, and all three of us are primary partners. If you have any questions about that just let me know.
 
I think of coercive non-monogamy in the context of fundamentalist religions where some groups emphasize having multiple wives - the wives do not have a choice or much input in who they marry. They are not allowed other partners and same sex activity is banned. These groups at least in the west tend to be splinter groups and so are extreme even for fundamentalist religions. (An example is the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. I categorize these as coercive religious polygamy. It is very different from polyamory in intent and practice. I don’t consider these groups ethically non-monogamous at all. (While I would never choose it, if women have the free choice to become a wife and are ok with the religious restrictions, I would put that in the ethical non-monogamy category despite my complete disagreement with that worldview.
 
The religious example is one way.

I also see what has been previously discussed in this forum as nonconsentual as being coercive. For example "do this or I will leave you high and dry". It may have been referred to as "coerced consent".
 
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