Partners' Envy

K

KC43

New member
First, although I've said this elsewhere in these forums, I want to clarify that for *me* (and my partners), "jealousy" means wanting what someone else has and wanting them to NOT have it; while "envy" just means wanting what someone else has but not having a problem with the other person also having it. Others' definitions vary, but those are the definitions I'm using in this post.

I have completely open communication with all three guys that I'm involved with. Sometimes I probably cross the line into oversharing, but I don't know this for sure; my boundary with them is to just say what's on my mind. All three of them have assured me that they don't mind if I talk about the others, as long as my primary focus is on whichever one I'm actually talking to. And I don't know about S2 yet, but both Hubby and Guy tell me they aren't the type to be jealous or envious, so nothing I say will bother them.

Except apparently it's bothering them.

Yesterday I was talking to Guy and mentioned something about S2. He cut me off in the middle of a sentence and said, "I need to stop you. I'm not mad, but I'm feeling very envious right now because he's able to see you and I'm not."

Last night, I was talking to Hubby (on the phone, because he was at work) about a text I'd sent him, something on my mind about him, Guy, and S2. He told me it was TMI and said sometimes hearing about S2 and Guy makes him "twitchy" because he isn't always as okay with the situation as he wants to be.

This is the first time either of them has really expressed any envy or jealousy, and I'm not sure how to deal with it. Both of them assured me that they love me, and that they know what they've signed up for by being involved in this. Both assured me that they want the situation to continue.

They have a right to feel however they feel, and I'm not questioning that. But now *I* feel as if I've hurt them. I hate hurting anyone, especially someone I love. I don't know what to do about it.

I have asked Hubby to sit down with me today and clarify what he wants communication-wise, because apparently I'm sharing too much. Yesterday, Guy simply said that he has to "get over it" because he doesn't want this to end; I emailed him earlier and told him I don't want to do anything to hurt him and that I hope he'll tell me if I can make this easier for him.

Any other suggestions? Have you had to deal with jealous or envious partners?
 
I would just slow down on the sharing. It might not be who you are with but instead it's what you are saying to the other person that is bothering them.

Here is my take on it. Hubby and I are very different when it comes to things.
I support him in everything he decides to do with his life. Does that mean I do have done the same thing? No but it's his life. Now I like hearing about his stuff but sometimes it's too much. Sometimes it ok to leave stuff out. Maybe on a Monday I'm stressed about my own stuff and I don't need to hear every detail about his stuff. That doesn't mean I don't care it's just bad timing. Does it also mean he has hurt me with his choices? Also no. I respect him and love him enough to let him be who he wants to be. I just don't want to hear about it all the time. As I'm sure he feels the same way about me.
 
I think that the best thing you can do is talk to each of them personally and have them give you examples of the kind of things they want to hear/don't mind hearing, or definitely DON'T want to hear.

Some things that make them uncomfortable are just going to be things that they need to adjust too. For instance, early in our relationship Dude was envious of mine and MrS's long history together, we would tell stories of things we did together and Dude would feel "left out". This was something that he had to get used to - we DO have a long history and many events and experiences that led me to be who I am today MrS was present for. If I were to leave those out of my history then how would Dude get to know the real ME? I would gently remind him that he and I are now building our OWN history - that it just takes time.

Guy may not LIKE hearing about the others who have more ready access to you IRL - but it is a FACT. Not that you need to rub his face in it, but things WILL come up in conversation and he will learn to adjust to that. And it sounds like he is on board with that - it's good that he can stop you and say, "I need you to stop (for the moment), we can come back to this later." - You don't need to feel bad that you "hurt" him, just respect his need in that moment to have a break and process things, and you can feel good that he feels comfortable enough to TELL you that.

Dude is an OVER-sharer, the guy has no filter and doesn't understand why anyone would NOT want to hear the nitty-gritty details of everything. We've had conversations where I have to explain exactly what I do and do NOT need to hear about his relations with Lotus (or anyone else). These are my own preferences (Lotus is OK with any/all sharing - I've talked to her about this). I know they have sex, I know the activities that they enjoy can be different than the ones he and I enjoy. I REALLY don't need the details re: activities, sexual positions, the look on her face, etc. for intimate moments that I was not involved in (some of these just seem too private, and others may be actual "turn-offs" for me). He's learning - which I appreciate, to put in the effort to abide by my preferences, even if he doesn't understand them.

Lotus is MUCH more sensitive to my preferences. We've had a couple of conversations where we give each other feedback on how something was presented and what we want/need/don't want/don't need to know.

There was at least ONE instance, when I started becoming involved with Lotus as well, where Dude was jealous of the time I spent with her - because it detracted from the time that HE could spend with her. (Dude, me and MrS all live together - so the time that any of us spend with Lotus is limited due to distance). As time goes on (and NRE wears off) this isn't really an issue anymore - mainly due to her time management skills.

We have all gotten pretty good with making sure that BIG stuff is communicated in a timely fashion. I've screwed up here and there - apologized and been forgiven, and moved on.

It's a learning curve. I think that it helps that none of us are particularly jealous/envious to start and that we are not "high maintenance". As long as our (not very extensive) needs are being met in OUR relationships, then how people handle their OTHER relationships is up to them.
 
I agree with Belladonna. Slow down with the sharing.

Your partners seem to love you truly, and they want to be happy for your happiness. But, it is very understandable that Guy feels envious because S2 can see you and he himself can not. Also, it might take a while for your husband to get used to the new situation (S2 is a new person in the picture, right?).

I have had to deal with envy in my marriage. CJ has been envious because he has had no luck in dating and it was so easy for me to find another lover (or so he said). Even though my relationship with Mark started with CJ's consent, it took him time to adjust. He definitely did not want to know too much - so I did not tell too much. Little by little he got used to the new situation, and started being more and more okay with me+Mark being a reality. For example, the relationship had been going on for over half a year before CJ was willing to meet Mark.

Your partners might want to be totally cool with your new relationships, but it is not always that easy. Give them time! Also, it is totally ok if they never ever want to know much about your other relationships. They are your relationships, and do not need to be their business at all. How about not sharing information about S2 unless directly asked? Might be a good way right now.

Edit: JaneQ was faster typing than me, and her advice is excellent :)
 
Thanks for the advice so far :)

I do understand that not sharing *as much* would be helpful to both Hubby and Guy (and probably to S2 as well, but I don't share as much with him to begin with). My biggest problem with that is being unsure of the line between "enough" and "too much," which is why I've asked Hubby for clarification. There are some things I *have* to tell Hubby by the terms of the agreements we made when we initially opened the marriage, so if he isn't comfortable any longer with me telling him those things, we need to renegotiate the agreements.

I'm very literal/concrete; if it isn't spelled out, I'm not always sure how it's supposed to work, and if it *is* spelled out, I stick to the exact letter of it until told otherwise.

Likewise, as far as telling each other things, Guy and I have some of the same agreements as Hubby and I, so those need to be clarified as well.

Nadya, yes, S2 is new in the situation; he and I started seeing each other in July. And I'm sure that's part of Guy's envy. He was somewhat envious of Hubby being able to live with me, but since Hubby and I were well-established as a couple before Guy entered the picture, that was easier for Guy to accept. And the last man I saw other than those two was only a FWB who I saw once or twice a month, which was also easier for Guy to cope with. No emotions involved. Now I have an *emotional* as well as sexual connection with someone who can see me regularly, and I know that's hard for Guy. And for Hubby, whose main reason for accepting Guy in the beginning was that Guy and I wouldn't be seeing each other often.

I understand what you're saying about these being my relationships, but that isn't exactly how it's been established in my case. I am the one in a relationship with Hubby, with Guy, and with S2, but Hubby and Guy are platonic friends, and although neither of them has met S2, both have said they consider him part of the equation. And S2 has said he also considers himself part of the equation. So there's the friendship between Hubby and Guy, and the fact that all three of them have *said* they want to know about each other. They've all told me to feel free to share, and sometimes ask me about each other. So part of this on my end is I'm feeling a little off-kilter from what I'm perceiving as mixed messages from Hubby and Guy about what I can or can't talk about.
 
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They might find some details fine most of the time and yet other times find it difficult to hear. This doesn't necessarily translate to not wanting to know, nor does it mean they're being unreasonable or are not ok with what you are doing.

For an example, I have no problem with my husband eating ice cream without me, either alone or with other people. I'm not jealous of the ice cream or him getting to eat it normally.
However for the last six months he's been working away and I've been home with the kids and often struggling with never getting a moment of peace or freedom (we home educate them and have no family who can give me a break so when he's away it's all on me). At those times when he called and told me he walked along the beach eating ice cream with a (male, he's heterosexual) work colleague I was so upset and angry. Not at him, but because I couldn't be with him. It was tricky for us both even though he wasn't doing anything wrong and I wanted to know what he was doing even though it prompted difficult feelings.

I think your plan of talking to them and finding out from them exactly what they want to hear is a good one. Don't assume, ask. And then be patient if they've said they want to hear it but it isn't always easy.
 
Yeah, I definitely don't consider this unreasonable on either of their parts. I'm just confused about how to handle it, and feeling guilty because I feel like I've hurt them, even though Hubby flat out said he isn't hurt, just sometimes struggles.
 
I would probably forgo talking about the other guys at all if it makes them feel better not hearing about stuff
 
Inyourendo, that's my thought... But they tell me they *do* want to hear about stuff. Hence my confusion.
 
There is no reason to feel guilty. You did not hurt them. In fact, neither of them said they were hurt. Both of them simply expressed discomfort with certain feelings they were experiencing while hearing references to your involvement with another, or by not being able to be with you at that moment in time. Don't let yourself get caught up in reinterpreting their discomfort as hurt. No one is going to die from being uncomfortable. Their reactions to your honesty is simply that - their reactions, and each of the two men are responsible for owning their reactions - you did not cause them.

We can never really know how a person will choose to respond to communications we deliver. Your intent was not meant to inflict harm, so stop beating yourself up, as that doesn't do any good for anyone. You were being honest and so were they. How wonderful that they feel safe enough with you and the arrangement that they can be who they are and express their truths. It doesn't mean you need to adjust your behavior forever onward. They each asked that you adjust it at the moment it was needed, now move on and just be aware and present. You could ask before sharing if you can bring up a certain topic, but just make sure you don't wind up walking on eggshells around them for fear of "hurting" them.
 
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nycindie, thank you for that. "Walking on eggshells" is a long-learned response on my part; it has nothing whatsoever to do with my current men, but when I'm not mindful, it is a pattern I fall back into.

I am thankful that they're comfortable enough with me and the situation to be open and honest with me. And I'm probably overthinking their reactions.

I could definitely ask before sharing. I frequently do anyway, but can be more mindful and do this more often.
 
Hi KC,

I wrote my reply before the other responses came through, so have edited!

It makes sense that Guy is struggling given how new S2 is.

A person could be "not the jealous type", but could still have struggles from time to time based on other factors. For instance, you say that Guy asked you to stop talking about S2 because he was envious that S2 was able to see you. This is specific to a situation. Other times, a partner can just be having a bad day, or feeling particularly insecure, and it's not a good time to share. You won't always know what's going to go down well at what time.

As for hubby, it sounds like he's obviously having deeper problems - possibly insecurities? I know from experience that being the partner of a person who has three partners is a bit rough, to be honest.

It's good that you've asked Hubby to explain what kind of communication he wants.

In terms of advice, I will say that communicating poly/partner stuff is something my GF and I always inevitably mess up at times. In our early days, we had a "say everything that's on your mind!" policy, and it was not good. It caused completely unnecessary insecurities. Nowadays, what we do (and what seems to work) is to not say anything until the other person asks. If there's something we want to share or get advice on, we say beforehand "I would really like your opinion about this situation with X, are you in a position to hear about it right now?"

This might be a good technique for you to speak to your partners about and see whether they like it?

Also, in terms of getting mixed messages from your partners, I think perhaps one of two things has to happen. Either they insist that you can share almost everything, which means you will go ahead and do so, but they have to stop you if they're not up for it in that moment. If this happens, you have to agree not to get upset about hurting them - as someone else said, just respect their feelings in the moment and don't put yourself through turmoil. The other option is the option that GF and I take, which is to let the other person ask first, or ask before you raise something.
 
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Thanks, Sparklepop.

I think the fact that S2 is new to the dynamic is a factor. Almost like sibling rivalry, in a way, I guess. And the fact that Guy is long-distance (living and usually working in Michigan, while I'm in Massachusetts) and therefore he and I are rarely able to see each other, whereas S2 is 45 minutes away from me, is definitely a component for Guy as well.

I have spoken with Hubby. He said he wants to know "bare-bones basics". Our agreement--as well as my agreement with Guy--is that I will tell them before I see S2. When I come back from seeing S2, Hubby would prefer that I just say "I had fun" or, if necessary, tell him about something that happened that may or may not be a line-crosser, but then wait for him to ask questions rather than volunteering more information or details. So now I understand much better where he's at. I also thanked him for being willing to tell me that it was bothering him, and for owning his feelings rather than trying to pin them on me, which is a problem we've had in the past.

Hubby also said he was sorry I've been feeling guilty about this, and told me that despite all the times I've felt like a horrible person, the fact that my first concern in this situation was not hurting others proves me wrong about being horrible.
 
KC43 said:
Our agreement--as well as my agreement with Guy--is that I will tell them before I see S2. When I come back from seeing S2, Hubby would prefer that I just say "I had fun" or, if necessary, tell him about something that happened that may or may not be a line-crosser, but then wait for him to ask questions rather than volunteering more information or details. So now I understand much better where he's at.
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That's awesome! It sounds like you had a great conversation.

KC43 said:
I also thanked him for being willing to tell me that it was bothering him, and for owning his feelings rather than trying to pin them on me, which is a problem we've had in the past.
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I am sincerely very moved by this. Good for you for acknowledging him. People in relationships do not do this enough, probably because we think that our partners must know how much we appreciate them - but verbalizing it is important. That is part of maintaining a strong foundation.

Sniffle... [wipes a tear]... so mature!

KC43 said:
Hubby also said he was sorry I've been feeling guilty about this, and told me that despite all the times I've felt like a horrible person, the fact that my first concern in this situation was not hurting others proves me wrong about being horrible.
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Awwww, that is sweet. Now it's up to you to believe him! :)
 
Thanks, nycindie :) That honestly means a lot. I feel sometimes like I'm fumbling for a light switch while tripping over mousetraps in this situation, so it's good to hear I'm doing something positive.

I'm not always mindful of acknowledging what others do or expressing gratitude, but I try to do so frequently. It took me decades to realize that I deserve good things and good people in my life, and I've promised myself that I will never take those things or people for granted. Plus people like to hear positive feedback; I think it's human nature to point out the crap that doesn't work while not commenting on the things that do. So I try to do more of the positives.

Hubby also expressed yesterday that part of his problem with hearing me talk about S2 was that he did feel taken a little for granted. As soon as he said that, I recognized the symptoms of NRE... So I've also made a commitment to myself to show more appreciation to Hubby and assure him that he's still important to me. S2 and Guy are my lovers; Hubby is my *life*, and I want to make sure he knows that.
 
Guy called just after I finished the last post. I brought up the "envy" subject with him as well, and told him the boundary Hubby put in place for my sharing information.

Guy said that, knowing Hubby, he can understand that being the comfort zone, but that he doesn't share Hubby's thoughts on it. He said he doesn't mind me saying whatever I say, regardless of how much information it is. His only problem is that he and I are rarely able to see each other, while S2 can see me frequently. He also said, "I've accepted that this is how it is between us, and it just means I have to make the most of the times when we *are* together. It does NOT mean you can't talk to me about S2 or Hubby. If I have a problem with what you're saying, I'll just ask you if we can change the subject and come back later to whatever you're telling me." He also pointed out what's been said in this thread, that he and Hubby have known each other as long as he and I have, and they have a friendship and mutual respect, whereas S2 is new to the dynamic and neither Hubby nor Guy has met him.

Guy has been in "alternative" relationships before, though never polyamorous, so he's both more open than and better able to accept things than Hubby. He's also more in touch with his emotions and is more able--and willing--to express them, which makes navigating things with him a little easier than with Hubby sometimes.

I told him I was glad to know I hadn't hurt him, and that I also wish we had more time together but am thankful for the time we do have. And I thanked him for being willing to tell me clearly when he's struggling with something I've said, so that I know it's a matter of *his* feelings and not of *me* doing or saying something wrong.

I feel really, really fortunate at times like this that I have men in my life who accept the way I perceive things and are willing to communicate with me and negotiate situations so that we're all comfortable. I haven't had as much experience with S2 with that as I've had with Hubby and Guy, but S2's easy acceptance of my situation and his response to my telling him how I felt when he was out of contact and didn't answer my messages for several days tells me he will probably be equally willing and able to discuss things if need be.
 
It sounds like you're doing a brilliant job of communicating with each other openly and kindly and respecting each other's feelings :) yay!
 
Thanks, Confused :) I try...and I'm very lucky my partners are open to discussions as well. Even if Hubby does sometimes tell me I talk too much... Even he admits it's better than not communicating and having misunderstandings and crappy things happen.
 
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