Please help a noob

As gently as I know how to say it, when you dismiss him as 'inflexible,' 'having no room for logic,' and believing something only because he has been 'conditioned' to think so, isn't that pretty insulting? Isn't that dismissing him as a human being?

Aren't you yourself, in fact, being a little inflexible by (apparently) taking the attitude that the only possible correct answer for a man in his position is to embrace another man being sexual with his wife, and your friend must therefore be inflexible and illogical if he can't see that?
 
I almost chimed in with my 2 cents earlier but I wasn't feeling up to it.

Why don't you just leave him alone? Stop trying to explain, encourage, share stuff with him. If a metamour was nonstop trying to get me to see their viewpoint, or reassure me, when I just wanted them to leave me alone and give me space to think, I'd be beyond pissed off. Nathan needs time. He's not going to feel like he's getting it if you're spending HOURS talking to him. You're not dating him. You want to date his wife. Men don't like to spend hours processing their feelings in general, from what I understand. So just back off and keep your conversations with him in the neutral friend zone. Go back to topics you discussed before you got involved with his wife.
 
I'm not saying that you need to be gentler with him. I'm sure you're doing your best to be kind. But people can often sense, even subconsciously, how you feel about them, which will obviously color things. Your words here are very negative, which doesn't seem like a good sign. Maybe that's just you venting and doesn't reflect how you really feel. That's cool. It's important to have a place to vent safely. But maybe you really do look down on him, and that's making things harder, for both of you, because for you it means you're abiding by a rule you don't like, put in place by someone you don't respect, which is gonna be harder to follow than a rule requested by someone you do respect.

I could be totally off base. But rather than trying to treat him differently (which, if your thoughts stay the same, would just mean being fake, which most people can pick up on), I would suggest trying to put yourself in his shoes, really imagining how you might have felt if your wife had always given you less cause to feel secure and satisfied in your marriage, and you had never once thought of non-monogamy, until suddenly you find out she's in love/lust with your best friend, and needs him to be happy and turned on. Yikes. Anyone would need time to adjust, time to be a little scared and sad and unsure, time to come to trust that no one involved is looking to make a fool of you (which is just what you were proposing to do in your first post!).

Remember, three months is really no time at all when it comes to making an adjustment like that. Of course, it feels like an eternity to two people newly in love/lust/NRE. Your reality and his are very different right now.
 
graviton said:
Both Esther and Ruth have been present during our interactions. They have never once told me I was overly harsh, bullying, disrespectful or anything. They have only told me that they admire how gentle I am. Reading my frustration on a forum, and actually seeing our interactions, are two different things.
Click to expand...

Given all you've said about him here, and trying to imagine you speaking with him for hours, regarding him as inflexible for not loving the thought of his wife being with/having sex with another man, and the idea that you're being 'gentle' with him... I'm imagining a man who's feeling very condescended to, who gets the feeling he's being treated like a foolish child who's a little bit slow and can't quite get it, and being told he should stop being difficult, while everyone is being oh-so-patient with him.

I'm not there. I don't know you or him. But from your own descriptions, it's very easy to believe this may be how it feels to him.
 
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Okay, as a wife who opened her marriage in the wrong way, with an emotional affair, and is now looking back at how things went, and kicking myself, I have a couple of things to bear in mind.

First of all, all marriages have issues. No one teaches you how to have a relationship, how to talk, how find a way to communicate. Language is just part of it. Often what you are saying is not what is heard. Knowing what you want to communicate, and how to get rid of the assumptions you have about relationships, and learn that the ones you have are not the same assumptions as other people have, is hard!

Now, a little more than five years later, our marriage is better. We learned a lot to help our marriage. But it wasn't easy; it was rough. It still is. Yes, opening up to polyamory was an instigation to a lot of these good changes. That doesn't mean that my husband sees poly as a good thing. These were changes we needed, regardless. We just had no idea how to make them, or how communicate them well.

Maybe now Nathan is learning where the cracks are in his marriage, and how to deal with them. However, that doesn't mean he has to like that it took an outside relationship to get the information they needed to help their marriage.

Also, you seem to be falling into a pretty common newbie poly trap. Some never fall out of it, sadly. That trap is pretentiousness. You come off as very pretentious. You may think you don't, but I read it in every one of your posts, so I can't believe Nathan doesn't pick up on it. You are talking about how you have been nothing but honest, and the women in your life think you are nothing but kind and considerate. You are discussing things, and trying so hard to get him to see things in your light, obviously because it's the right light, the more evolved light!

Don't stay in that trap. The truth is, he doesn't need to see things from your point of view, anymore than you need to see things from his. If what you want is so right and honest and makes sense for you, why can't what he wants be right and honest and make sense for him?

That this sounds like you have all the answers, and are doing everything right, and just don't know why he can't get on board, seems so pretentious, and honestly, from his POV, probably a little douchey.

You want him to respect you and believe that you respect him? If this, bringing all of this up, is causing Nathan and Ruth to work on issues that have long needed that work, okay. Back off. Let them. No one wants to be told their marriage is saved or made better because someone else wants to bone their spouse. Brutal, but true.
 
similar reaction...

I don't have much to say other than to relate to what you're experiencing. My husband and I are new to poly (8-9 months?). I recently began seeing someone, after months and months of just talking about it incessantly.

His reaction was similar to Nathan's reaction-- he loves me and wants me to be happy, and is trying to adjust to my needing to have a relationship with another man. Every day it was a new emotion, very wishy-washy. My lover has been understanding, then puzzled, then irritated and frustrated. And then he felt guilty for "causing our marital strife" - not true. He is now keeping himself at arm's length as my husband and I try to work through my NRE with lover and our new-to-poly adjustments.

All I can say is, it takes a lot of time and work to make these relationships successful. A lot.

Be patient with Nathan. He deserves it.

My husband deserved it. Sometimes I'm not very good at being patient, and that's not fair to him. He's trying to accept all of this with the hope that our love and relationship will be sustained and remain strong.

I imagine this is what Nathan feels. It really is a struggle. I'm sure it's putting him through an emotional ringer.

You might want to just lie low for a bit and give him/them some space. For us, talking about it every single night was not a great thing. Everyone needs a respite sometimes.

Good luck.
 
Update: it's over. I broke up with Ruth.

I discovered Esther has been cheating on me. Now I have to decide what to do with our marriage and children.

Right now, she is the ugliest person on the planet to me. Oh, the irony.
 
I'm confused. Why break up with Ruth because Esther cheated on you? Was Ruth party to the cheating? Did she help enable it?
 
I did it because I didn't want to cause Nathan even a fraction of the pain that I feel. I had more love and respect for this man than my own wife had for me. It turns out, Ruth was also going to end it because she didn't want to be a distraction for our attempt to stay married.

I have only loved two women in my life, and I lost them both today. I have never felt so alone. :(
 
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How long has Esther been cheating on you?
Do you know her bf?
Does she plan to break up with him, or at least put him on hold while you figure out your new poly dynamic?
Have Esther and her new partner declared their love for each other, or is it too new, or just about the sex?
 
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graviton: My sympathies for this difficult time. I have some experience with what you might be feeling. Hopefully, this is damage that's not unrecoverable.

Don't make any big decisions until you've had a couple of days to get your feet back under you.
 
Thank you. This is singularly the worst experience of my life. I would be suicidal if I didn't view such things with contempt.
 
Graviton, cannot even begin to imagine how devasting something like that can feel. I wish there were words that could convey the heartfelt feelings of sympathy I have for you during this difficult time. There are many words swirling around in my mind of what could be helpful hints to try and make the situation tolerable, then livable, then hopefully enjoyable. But right now it's too early. Feelings are too raw.

When you're ready, have a little more mind working than raw emotions leading, I, and I'm sure many more on this forum, will be here for you. Until then, you have the virtual hug I'm sending you, and my earlier posts in this thread reminding you that you really are a good man, and with time things will get better, even if it doesn't feel that way this moment.

Even though it's probably hard on the kids, I'm so glad you have them; feel and find comfort in their unconditional love. Since you are a good man (as opposed to a lesser evolved guy), I have faith that you will put their well-being and feelings of security and love above your own turmoil. I hope you'll find they can help soothe the burning anger, frustration and pain. They are your special gift/silver lining that comes from the union, regardless of whether that union stays together or not.

You are not alone.
Delph
 
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