Please help me get over the hump

T

Token

New member
Backstory: 4 years ago after a loaded kiss I asked my defacto partner of then 17 years if he would allow me to go sleep with the kisser. He said no, I had had something awakened in me and I asked him to open our relationship... I had said I could not promise that another sexual encounter would not occur and so we started swinging.

He was hesitant but after a few months of emotional turmoil we started the journey and it seemed to be working for us. I certainly discovered that I am innately non-monogamous, and he seemed to be enjoying himself, although the hit and miss element of connecting was not fun for him.

Our main rules were no locals (small town); no friends/colleagues and veto - which he used to keep visiting single guys 'once only'. We moved at his pace and although I was the one pushing boundaries it would always be a gentle nudge and then a willing retreat back to his safety zone.

We're quite open with letting others know about our choices and so a question that came up was 'what if the other had feelings for someone' and I would reply like gospel that we'd stop seeing that person. Because I let go of my connection to the kisser...

More recently:
My parents live overseas and my father has had a terminal diagnosis which lead to us spending lots of time apart. We decided to put in place 'permission to play' which works well for me out in a world with no locals and not so well for my partner stuck back at home. Although he got out to a lush party and also had interactions with a female friend of ours.

We always joke and share attractions and there was a local girl who is loosely a colleague but not really who he found attractive. He asked me if he could ask her out and despite my alarm bells ringing loudly I agreed because I trusted him.

I was really worried for her, I thought he was playing with fire and she'd get hurt. Our permission to play rules were that there could only be 3 dates. He didn't tell her anything besides we were ok with the other being intimate with others. She spent her 3 dates kissing only and I voiced my concerns that it was too datey and put of my comfort zone but I did not pull the pin.

So I arrive off a 14+ hour flight with lots of timezone difference and in the car he drops the p-bomb on me. That he wants to keep seeing her. I was not in the best headspace and totally freaked out.

Turns out that I was right that he was playing with fire and what I couldn't see was that I was the one (so far) to be hurt. It has floored me that he's willing to risk 20+ years for 3 kissy dates. I'm experiencing all of the pain that other newcomers have for their lost relationship and it is the same pain he suffered 4 years ago.

He basically told me that only he or she can end it and that he wants to see it played out. He gave me an ultimatum, told me that I was going to see her whether I liked it or not. That tore me apart. I had to extract it out of him that he had a crush.

I am resentful of the fact that I stayed inside every rule and boundary we had and the ONE time he actually really plays solo he throws them all out the window.

And it's killing me that he's being so self absorbed at a time when there's huge things happening in my life.

But he has been consistent with his positive messages, that he doesn't want to leave me, that he loves me and sees us being primary and that he is ok with one date a week. He's been honest although he did push for a 4th date without telling me before I came home. He cut off contact to work on us but it is with a ticking clock and fortunately the date I picked for contact was 2 days before the date he picked. That's coming up soon, but first we're going away together to focus on us.

I have identified as being monoamorous and I think this is a one off connection. I identify myself that way because I love very deeply and have never had a casual love. There's a 15 year age gap between them, I can't guarantee it but I don't think she's looking for anything too deep (could just be wishful thinking).

There's so much more to all of this but the bottomline is:

He supported my journey of exploration, I am not going to be a partner who doesn't support back.

If I dig my heels in he'll just fall out of love with me because I won't really be the woman he needs right now.

He came to me first. This is not cheating I had sanctioned the connection and even made a suggestive comment to her before I left to open the door for him.

He does love me. I love him endlessly. This is not a huge leap from where we've come from.

I've been spiralling, I spent two weeks in bed crying and have not been able to be motivated at all. I was convinced he was going to leave me. Then I realised reality had to be better than what I was playing out in my head and I reluctantly let him know I'm coming along for the ride. I still wake up crying and I have been able to really do some self-analysis about my fear of abandonment and my own issues with actually fearing love (love hurts so why seek more of it than you actually 'need').

I'm really interested in hearing your perspective on what I can focus on the help make sure I walk the path that keeps us solid.

As I said there's more I could add...
 
It sounds like you are, as you say, just trying to get over the hump. You seem to have your head screwed on right, but it can be hard to maintain a clear perspective in the moment. I would say to let yourself feel what you feel, but monitor yourself and make sure not to dwell on things. He's going to be bouncing around full of the joys of spring and new relationship energy, and like all people new to poly, you will both make mistakes. All you can do is keep talking about how you want your polyamorous relationships to go, ask him to take it as slowly as you need, and explore this thing with caution. Even if you are, as you say, monoamorous (I am too, to a large extent) this is still an opportunity for you to start to have deeper connections with others too - I vastly prefer having lovers who I can be good friends with rather than casual hookups who I only see once or twice, and the way you describe yourself makes me think you might be the same. When you are struggling, focus on the fact that this is an opportunity for you too. Maybe even make a list (with or without him) of all the positives you hope having a fully open relationship may bring, to remind yourself of the good stuff when you are having a tough day. Above all, be sure he realises that in opening this door, he's not allowed to just slam it shut again if things don't work out with this woman. If he's still not ready for you to explore something similar with another man, then he's not ready for this period.

In my first poly relationship I experienced something similar to you, albeit from a slightly different angle. I got together with a woman who had lots of rules with her other partner - like no sleep overs, only meeting when it wasn't possible for him to be there, a lot of intrusion into our relationship, stuff like that - and we did the best we could with those restrictions for more than a year. Then the minute he got a girlfriend, BOOM, all those rules just went right out of the window. At the time, it was a relief to finally be able to have some of the things long denied to us, but my girlfriend at the time still felt quite bitter about it. To a large extent, it meant that we missed out on a lot of that lovely NRE together - every step was tentative and drama-filled - and it seemed very unfair that he could then just explore without limits. I wonder how much of the discomfort you are feeling now has to do with having to let go of that first crush you mentioned, and of suppressing your feelings for others to keep things in line with his comfort level for all those years? That's a separate thing to the 'normal' sense of worry and insecurity that might come with transitioning to a poly relationship, and a particularly painful emotion to deal with. If you feel resentment to him for all those times, it's best not to suppress it. I hope he has the awareness to acknowledge that this is an extra burden for you to process, but if he doesn't, it's ok to let him know that there is an element of injustice that you need to work through.

Hang in there, I think you are doing just fine!
 
A couple more points

Thanks TenK!

I should add that he sees this as a way to address the imbalance towards me in swinging and that he's well versed on compersion and being happy for your partner and I am well versed in disattaching from sexual connections.

BUT on the subject of resentment he didn't even know it but he now feels he's been hurting still from me opening us to start with and from the focus from my side on guys (classic case of me initially thinking I wanted girls as I'd never tried). He also handed me control years ago and wants it all back, which I am happy to do but there are all kinds of issues for him around this and frustration (aka short temper).

Also what's come up is that we're not in as strong a place as a couple as we both thought, there's lots of communicational dysfunction and still anger towards me on his part that he acknowledges he's not let go of yet... but in our 3 nights away next week he's ready to try and let go, we're planning on turning screens off and working solidly on us.

I'm really up for changing myself and us for the better. He says swinging is like a hobby we do together and it opened the door for communication but did not force us to have deep introspection... This does....
 
Hi Token,

I think you'll need to renegotiate your rules and think about what you want now that some things have changed. Possibly the book More than Two would be helpful.

It is okay for you and your partner to focus on each other for awhile. Don't rush anything.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Trying not to rush

I arrived back from overseas 5 weeks ago, we'll be at a function with the lass tomorrow and he wants to ask her out for a coffee to discuss further...

We'll have next week away to focus on us. Because this is not a mutual decision I think I'll probably never be truly ready and that rather than have the 'what if's' hang over our heads we should rip the bandaid off. She may not be interested...

I think the false security of rules took us here better to go for guidelines...
 
A few things I'd like to point out...

  • Fear often has a worse effect than the object of the fear. Also, be careful not to react to your fears too much, or you might just manifest them into reality.

  • You both seem to genuinely love each other. That, coupled with your willingness to focus on each other and communicate would make things work. Love is the catalyst for some amazing antifragility. It can turn confusing, scary and seemingly damaging situations into a stronger, better, and closer relationship.

  • I personally do not see any viability in rules that are intended to govern or prevent emotion or emotional ties. Some here might disagree with me, and that's fine. Even if one manages to follow such a rule despite their feelings, doing so can create visible or invisible problems, and/or sustain a lack of emotional development. Rules governing emotion are often due to insecurity - when that is the case, the real solution is personal development and relationship development rather than creating a structure (rule) to surround, protect and coddle ones insecurities. This connects to the previous point - there's no need to coddle insecurities if you two share genuine love. You two can make the choice to face your fears and help each other through them, to the betterment of yourselves and each other. A foundation in harmony with reality is strong.
 
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Blow up

Thanks Elksun, I totally get what you're saying re:fear. I do like to think we'll go the distance but my worry is that my model of loving is so deep and encompassing that he's opening the door for me to find the oneness monoamory provides me with elsewhere.

We're not fixed, he resents me and the journey I took him on, he sees this as a gateway to balance while I just see that once again one of us is 'telling' the other what our next step as a couple is and then expecting the other to simply adapt. Because I hurt him it makes it ok to hurt me... He says this is something he wants for himself, fair enough I guess given what I did for 'myself' but I feel sorry for the vanilla girl he's dragging into this mess.

Although I was initially worried he was going to hurt her earlier and so far I'm the one whose been in a world of pain, so maybe my concern is misplaced.

So this morning I mentioned something was on the weekend before his coffee date, he suggested I go with a girlfriend and then suggested he push the coffee forward to that date. I pointed out that I was comfortable with the coffee date we'd agreed on that was still days earlier than the date he'd mentally picked. I got upset because it felt like once again something we agreed on was up for renegotiation just because it was what he wanted. He bit back with the fact that his coffee could only be a coffee but the earlier date was something that could be a date. The idea of the coffee was to give her a chance to process his proposal without romantic pressure.

I was upset, next thing I know he's saying he doesn't want to go away next week because there's no point. This obviously hurt me deeply. Now his story is that he meant because I was firey and emotional and that he didn't want 3 days of that.

Anyway I do feel that he's looking for acceptance elsewhere because he feels everything I say is loaded, which it isn't. We have had very dysfunctional communication for many years, since he had a bout of deep depression which I was ill equipped to handle. I can't help but feel like he is punishing me. But he also comes back to the fact that by bringing it back to us I am saying he's incapable of feeling something in his own right.

He says the mistake we made was swinging before we were both ready and now he's seeking to repeat the same pattern as if two wrongs will make a right.

He's so in his place of 'rightness' about this whole situation that none of what I think is allowed to have any bearing on 'reality'.

But if we continue to swing then I understand why this feels right for him, I've brought it all back to us, have completely lost interest in exploring that right now especially as all his hidden resentment has come up and I don't feel good about putting my wants before my partner's feelings.

My instinct with this situation from the very beginning is that he's playing with fire. With this girl, this situation, this timing combined with his trampling over my emotions it's only going to implode at some stage. I'm not going to sabotage it though, he's doing that all by himself it seems.
 
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Sorry to hear about that blow-up. I'm confused by some of it ... You say you got into swinging before you were (both) ready?
 
clarification

kdt26417 said:
Sorry to hear about that blow-up. I'm confused by some of it ... You say you got into swinging before you were (both) ready?
Click to expand...

Yes, I kind of dragged him into it after he said no to my requested fling/sanctioned affair (which never happened).

Seems he thinks he had dates mixed up and that he feels we was no talking about pushing things forward. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, today is a big day since we'll be at that function altogether and so I am touchy but this incident has shone light on how aware he needs to be of what is being said.

I've said from the beginning his actions will reveal the reality of how he is behaving...
 
It reads like you feel Pandora's Box has been opened in the relationship between you two.

As far as the seeking or expectation of balance/justice, I know exactly how that feels in relation to polyWhatever. That said, balance is brief at best - the scales are always moving from one side to the other - life is dynamic and moving. Trying to sustain balance is usually futile. There is always giving and taking.

But perhaps one of you could stop and wait for the other (self-sacrifice) to find that sense of balance in the hope of a greater sense of security in the relationship... or you can both continue the journey into the abyss of delights and frights and challenge yourselves.

You say you can only love one person so deeply. Well, that's one way to be. I think humans are more 'softwired' than 'hardwired', as controversial as that might seem. I think identity, taste, composition and tendencies are all malleable, and we as humans have the amazing power of transforming ourselves with the exercise of will and experimentation... except for 'pray the gay away' (obviously a frequently failed method of reprogramming oneself). Reinventing oneself can be interesting. Not saying you SHOULD do that... just throwing the possibility - and the possibilities are endless... because humans are pretty fucking cool.

Are you SURE you can only love one person so deeply? You could be adventurous and fling open Pandora's Box all the way. It could be magical. It could be disastrous. But it should be interesting.
 
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How did the function go?
 
Not so scary

The night went well, (thanks for asking) seeing them together definitely gave me perspective that besides being a nice girl she's not really 'soul mate' material for him. This seems to be my biggest fear, being replaced as a life partner. I have no issues with jealousy, because swinging has helped me deal with that previously, I am happy for him to have intimacy, sex, share time and to care for and be cared for by/with someone-else.

It's not just that I've invested half my life into this relationship and I want a return on that investment, I want our dreams of growing old together to play out, I want us one of us to be there for the other at point of death and to be a couple for the grandchildren who are coming. I want all those hopes and desires we had together for our shared future to still play out.

Funnily enough another girl hit on him in front of me, and the lass so he's flying high right now. I guess if his new interest was able to deal with us being out as a couple she'll actually be a good candidate for the girlfriend role. I can't help but wonder whether this journey is going to be harder for us because we have been together so such a long time. Or maybe it will be easier because our relationship is so established and recognised within our community that a degree of understanding context is almost guaranteed for anyone coming in.

Thanks Elksun for your comments they've been very helpful and I am curious as to what my connections might look like once I stop trying to ensure I put barriers up.

What last night did show me is that besides focusing on what our new guidelines are - that we should stop projecting on the future and be here in the now a bit more. That's partly been blocked because I have been fearful but also he's been hopeful and keeps playing scenarios out in his head... Neither approach really helps us gauge what is actually happening. Plus then our focus is too much on this new relationship and not enough on ours.
 
I am a planner. When I started dating my second husband, PunkRock, it was important for me to know how he would fit in to my long term goals, including the ones I shared with DarkKnight. This became more urgent feeling to me after he moved in, and as we decided to have a handfasting ceremony. I know for me, having a solid plan with DarkKnight made me feel more secure, even though we both recognize it as dynamic and not set in stone.

Does your guy recognize your dreams/wants of this future with grandbabies and having matching rocking chairs on the porch? Is there room in your mental picture for another woman there, with their shared dreams?

DarkKnight was really great articulating to me what he wanted, and so I could craft a future that included all of us, and that made both guys feel more secure with me, and me feel like everything was going to be fine. :)

In your posts it sounds like you want reassurance and recognition that you are his primary relationship still. Definitely focusing on the now is important, but I wouldn't do well myself on ignoring the future for that. Others might counsel not to get too far ahead of yourself, but for me and mine, having that discussion and continually making sure we are on the same page for later was crucial for our positive successes with poly.
 
Hey Token,

I'm sorry to hear you've been so depressed. I understand how intense this must feel for you right now, but please know that it will settle and that time heals all. That your boyfriend has disregarded the rules you laid out clearly is really not hot, but I hope that you can look past your relationship and look toward your family, friends and fellow loved ones for support.

Sometimes the best thing to do is just to take a mental step back, go into nature or at least someplace secluded outside of the house and be alone to meditate. Think about what you truly want and what is right for you then act accordingly. Living fully is so much more important than any relationship :)

Solidarity!!
 
:(

Having another shitday. Tears and anger. We go away tomorrow. Because I was not and am not involved in the decision to go ahead, besides choosing at this point not to leave or ask that he does, it just feels like betrayal to me.

I believed so many things about our relationship, and they're a lie. Or that's how it feels. His best friend describes his attachment to this girl as a sickness. He doesn't shut up about her in his presence. He's kissed her three times, knows very little about her and her motives and is willing to risk our relationship for this, because it makes him feel good. To me having read up it sounds like limerance. It hurts that his logical brain refuses to even contemplate that this is like the scenario where I walked away from my 'interest' because he asked me to and because I could see the pain the concept caused.

And I'm not a loving supportive partner if I don't let him explore something that is tearing me apart. He says I'll get used to the pain and adapt.
 
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Clarity

I'm very interested to get feedback on this.

A huge part of my torment is that I don't feel ready for this. I've been given less than 7 weeks into total from when he dropped this on me to the date he's taking her out to adjust to an idea that is alien to me, and against everything we agreed to as a couple before (cue his argument that we were already sexually open so I shouldn't need so much time to adjust as a totally monogamous couple).

He's desperate for me to say I am supportive of his 'journey of self exploration' but as much as I try to feel supportive I can't because we're still really broken as a couple. We've had over a decade of dysfunctional communication and that can't be fixed overnight. Warning bells are me saying we should go to anger management together and him saying we won't need to as we should just treat each other better.

We can't start any new journey while our relationship is in turmoil. Yes he said yes to me 4 years ago, but that doesn't mean I HAVE to be supportive of this. He can, as he said he will, go see her anyway, but not with my blessing. It's not a 'no' it's just nothing that I will be a part in.

He's been saying that he wouldn't share any of the negativity in our relationship with her, and he wants me to be ok so that he won't be lying to her that I'm ok with it. (That's my take on the driving force for him wanting to be sanctioned).

But I'm not and I'm not going to be in 10 days time when he goes on his date, they say, with swinging, to always move forward at pace of the slowest partner. I imagine it's a good guideline here too. So if he can't give me that respect I will move at my pace, he can move at his.

What I will commit to is working on our relationship. I have zero interest in swinging right now, I had no idea my dalliances were hurting him so much and now I know there's no shine to it. So he can see her and I will focus on myself and us and down the road when we're ready as a couple if he's still seeing her I'll dip my toe in the water of dating too.

So that's not a no from me, but he's not got my blessing either, it's his decision not mine so why should I HAVE to be supportive when all this comparison to the past runs just one way? There has been almost zero acknowledgement that my point of view on any of this has any relevance or bearing. He is literally stuck in this sense of rightness and 'balance'. I don't need to be right about anything but it would be nice to feel like my point of view might actually really reflect my feelings and therefore have a little relevance. I will put my focus on myself, and developing a healthier relationship if the commitment to one runs both ways.
 
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Token said:
He says I'll get used to the pain and adapt.
Click to expand...

And he'll get over the NRE with the lass and quite possibly lose interest.

Stop talking to his best friend, that's not helping you right now.

It sounds like you're very, very afraid. Even with the NRE he's got going on, I posit that he has a responsibility to you, to care for your feelings, your need for reassurance. That's where the 'amory' part comes in; love, expressed. Let him know that you need to feel his love. And be aware that he might be trying to show it in a way that you're not necessarily receptive to right now. Be clear with what you need and recognise that he is also feeling the need right now to get to know this lass a bit more. That doesn't mean he's going to leave you for her. It he's going to leave you, or you're going to leave him, she's simply a catalyst, not the reason.

So, unless you're actually wanting to end your relationship with him because of how broken it was and is, then don't give up on him. Feel what you feel, and if you can't support the journey, still support the man. Don't lose sight of the fact that you're feeling like this *because* you love him. And don't stop showing him you love him - make him a cuppa; rub his shoulders; get in the shower with him; do whatever things it is that you two do together that you've always done to show your love. You don't need to get creative, just do what you do that is a part of you two.
 
It sounds like you are less afraid that he will lose you because he wants to be polyamorous, but more because this is shining the proverbial torch upon all the cracks in your own relationship with him, and he's not of a mindset to make things better between you two. I think you need to explain this to him in those terms. Yes, he is in NRE lalaland. However, the underlying issue here seems to be that there's lots to fix between the pair of you. If he can summon up enough energy, drive and focus to address those things AND continue his other romance, then there doesn't seem to be that much of a problem here. Most people find handling a transition from mono to poly much easier when their existing relationships are on secure and strong footing. Right now his new romance is on insecure footing: he feels he needs to invest, show up, try to woo her, be a good partner, before she loses interest. And he does. At the same time, he's probably thinking the two of you are unshakeable, that you've been around the block together enough times (so to speak), that it's ok for him to DE-prioritise you guys for a while. The problem is, you guys are NOT unshakeable.

If he chooses to prioritise the budding romance over your collective issues, then he is taking your relationship for granted and that shit won't fly forever. Right now he's asking for your goodwill. There's only so much mileage he can get out of the fact that you two have been together for a long time, been through a lot of things and come out stronger, before you start to get all tapped out of goodwill. It sounds like you are approaching that point. Does he know that?
 
Thanks Evie & TenK

I'll take all that on board. I do feel drawing the line in the sand and not giving permission for something he's told me he doesn't need my permission for will help me move forward more authentically. If I've got no choice in the matter then there's no real need for me to validate a decision that is not mine if it goes against what I am feeling. It's just a mechanism by him to feel better about HIS choices.

And like I said I'm not saying no, and it's ok for me to say no to trying to force myself to feel ok about it. I'll try not to resent him, I was resenting him anyway when I've been trying to be ok with it all.

I'm also not saying I'll never be ok with it or try it out for myself, just that I'll assess how I am feeling in my own time, and as our relationship mends...
 
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