Poly Lessons We've Learned
- Thread starter redpepper
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DharmaBum23
New member
Things I've learned.
1. Be very very careful whom you trust and get close to.
2. Even if you learn lesson #1, it is almost a certainty that you will get hurt, maybe even very badly.
3. Compersion is highly overrated and too much emphasis on it can make you crazy (i.e., "Why am I irritated that I came home to my SO having sex with her OSO on my couch? What's wrong with me?").
3a. "Frubble" is one of the lamest words in the English language.
4. Sometimes when you try to get something and you can't get it, the reason you don't get it is mostly to do with you. Other times it is because of things beyond your control. Most of the time, though, the reason you can't get something is because of a little bit of both.
1. Be very very careful whom you trust and get close to.
2. Even if you learn lesson #1, it is almost a certainty that you will get hurt, maybe even very badly.
3. Compersion is highly overrated and too much emphasis on it can make you crazy (i.e., "Why am I irritated that I came home to my SO having sex with her OSO on my couch? What's wrong with me?").
3a. "Frubble" is one of the lamest words in the English language.
4. Sometimes when you try to get something and you can't get it, the reason you don't get it is mostly to do with you. Other times it is because of things beyond your control. Most of the time, though, the reason you can't get something is because of a little bit of both.
Derbylicious
New member
Define frubble, please.
DharmaBum23
New member
To quote Our Lady of Quick Defintions, under the entry for compersion:
Wikipedia said:
This word, btw, brought me closer to becoming monogamous again than anything else.
It's a synonym for compersion. I personally used to find grok to be the most annoying word used, this coming from a long-time geek, poly, etc. Grok should be THE word, and it annoys me to see it. I think frubble just passed that. What are we, cartoon characters?
DharmaBum23
New member
Yeah, grok isn't something I'm a fan of either, mostly because in order for someone to really understand the word they have to read Stranger in a Strange Land.
But frubble? Ugh. I tend to use that word in my circle when referring to unrealistic compersion expectations (i.e., if you find out that the SO that you have a house with has met the person of their dreams and is leaving you to be with them. And is taking the house. And the kids. And your dog. A proper response would be, "Well I'm just all frubbly for you!") or when making bad role playing game references to poly ("I'm sorry honey, but my frubble is low so I need to get a blue mana potion.")
Or it is mentioned from time to time on Poly Weekly.
redpepper
Active member
Its important not to judge other people's level of depth in their relationships against your own. After all, not everyone is in poly relationships because they want depth. Some just want company, but otherwise want to do their own thing. Some have never reached any depth and have no gauge with which to compare it, and others just simply have not met someone that makes them feel there is a world of depth to be achieved with them in their lives, why make it more serious than need be?
For me, it's all about depth. I don't do relationships half way. I can. But I prefer to work towards a bond that lasts a lifetime in the form of deep connected love. It simply is not like this for everyone.
I was told by a friend that not everyone wants a lifetime or even anything longer than the pursuit of a lover and the NRE. After that it's time to move on. I can see this being fun. But it's not for me.
I feel judged sometimes by those close to me in my local community because I am not interested in dating everyone. I have not left this open as an option and have found that some are simply uninterested in hanging out with me as a result, perhaps its because they don't know how to act around me. I don't know. Why am I not asked to do things with thrm, just because I am not relationship-worthy in a sexual sense? I don't see why friends can't be close without having sex. I have close friends that I am physically close with and don't have sex with. There is a level of depth there, but not as much as those I have sex with. Why judge that, though??
I'm off on a tangent of questions that can't be answered, I don't think. Again, it's important not to judge other people's level of depth in their relationships against your own. I want a few lovers of great depth, others want endless lovers with little depth. End of story. It's just different for everyone.
For me, it's all about depth. I don't do relationships half way. I can. But I prefer to work towards a bond that lasts a lifetime in the form of deep connected love. It simply is not like this for everyone.
I was told by a friend that not everyone wants a lifetime or even anything longer than the pursuit of a lover and the NRE. After that it's time to move on. I can see this being fun. But it's not for me.
I feel judged sometimes by those close to me in my local community because I am not interested in dating everyone. I have not left this open as an option and have found that some are simply uninterested in hanging out with me as a result, perhaps its because they don't know how to act around me. I don't know. Why am I not asked to do things with thrm, just because I am not relationship-worthy in a sexual sense? I don't see why friends can't be close without having sex. I have close friends that I am physically close with and don't have sex with. There is a level of depth there, but not as much as those I have sex with. Why judge that, though??
I'm off on a tangent of questions that can't be answered, I don't think. Again, it's important not to judge other people's level of depth in their relationships against your own. I want a few lovers of great depth, others want endless lovers with little depth. End of story. It's just different for everyone.
On grokking
(Wibbles and frubbles piss me off too.)
I actually love 'grok', and while it's pretty necessary to read Stranger in a Strange Land to get its full flavor, I can do a fast synopsis for those who can't/won't read it.
HEINLEIN SPOILER ALERT:
grok: Martian verb, literally 'to drink'. Abstract translations include (but are not limited to): 'to have sex with', 'to understand fully', 'to know and cherish the whole of', 'to accept'.
There's an idea in Stranger that grokking someone, 'knowing them in fullness,' is partially achieved through sex. A traditional phrase upon grokking someone through a meaningful sexual encounter is 'Thou art god.' I find that beautiful, and truthful, in that I see a side of each love in my constellation through sexual intimacy that I would not see otherwise.
If you can't stand Heinlein, I don't mind. He's dogmatic and idealistic to the point of naivete, but I still cry every time I read the last few chapters.
(Wibbles and frubbles piss me off too.)
I actually love 'grok', and while it's pretty necessary to read Stranger in a Strange Land to get its full flavor, I can do a fast synopsis for those who can't/won't read it.
HEINLEIN SPOILER ALERT:
grok: Martian verb, literally 'to drink'. Abstract translations include (but are not limited to): 'to have sex with', 'to understand fully', 'to know and cherish the whole of', 'to accept'.
There's an idea in Stranger that grokking someone, 'knowing them in fullness,' is partially achieved through sex. A traditional phrase upon grokking someone through a meaningful sexual encounter is 'Thou art god.' I find that beautiful, and truthful, in that I see a side of each love in my constellation through sexual intimacy that I would not see otherwise.
If you can't stand Heinlein, I don't mind. He's dogmatic and idealistic to the point of naivete, but I still cry every time I read the last few chapters.
Things I've learned from screwing up:
- Don't date people who would prefer you to not be dating someone you already are.
- Someone identifying as polyamorous, or as being part of the polyamorous community, is not really much of a predictor of whether or not they do poly relationships well.
- If I can't trust my partner to maintain our relationship even when things are hard, that relationship is already broken. If I can't trust my partner to be an ally and a sane reality check to me, that relationship is already broken.
- Rules beyond safer sex ones are so often counter-productive that it's probably best to just avoid them.
- Let your (and others') relationships be what they are. Trying to speed up or slow down relationships based on someone's whims of the moment is crazy-making.
- Communication is not problem solving. If someone is spending more time processing than they are actually enjoying relationships, they need to develop the relationship skills to actually use all that communication productively.
- Most poly dramas, or polyamorous relationship issues, aren't really about poly, even when it's jealousy about your partner being with someone else. Sex isn't the cause, it's a trigger.
- Dating people who would really prefer to be in a monogamous relationship is likely to get someone's heart broken. That said, heartbreak is always a risk in romantic relationships, and so that doesn't necessarily mean one shouldn't take a chance.
- It's really helpful to have other poly friends in your life. Being the only one you know who is doing it can be really isolating. People who only have LDRs or "platonic poly" relationships, or who are polyfi, don't really have a lot in common with my life either, but at least they're less likely to be weirded out.
- Being out is super important. People pick up on secrecy and defensiveness and reasonably conclude something sketchy is going on.
redpepper
Active member
Thanks, jkelly, for the food for thought!
I would add to my list, your #5-- let your and other's relationships be as they are. I think it is important to realize that my relationship with someone is going to be different than someone else's, and therefore I am valuable because of that difference, as much as I am in my sameness. I will find my own way in my relationships with people, but heads-ups are sometimes appreciated. Sometimes I tell Nerdist how things might work better in his relationships too. That kind of info can be really be helpful in determining success in a new relationship.
Your #9-- I agree, community is so important, even just on here! There have been times when I have relied entirely on the community on this forum to help me get through. There is nothing wrong with that, but actual tangible people in front of your face is very helpful, experiencing what goes on in their lives as it happens and being a part of that is a huge learning experience.
I would like to suggest, jkelly, that the result of your #4, that rules are "often counter-productive," and "that it's probably best to just avoid them," could be because of your #9, in that you don't have anything in common with poly-fi folk. Rules and discussion of boundaries seem to be big deal to that population because of primary relationships and family issues. Just a thought.
I would add to my list, your #5-- let your and other's relationships be as they are. I think it is important to realize that my relationship with someone is going to be different than someone else's, and therefore I am valuable because of that difference, as much as I am in my sameness. I will find my own way in my relationships with people, but heads-ups are sometimes appreciated. Sometimes I tell Nerdist how things might work better in his relationships too. That kind of info can be really be helpful in determining success in a new relationship.
Your #9-- I agree, community is so important, even just on here! There have been times when I have relied entirely on the community on this forum to help me get through. There is nothing wrong with that, but actual tangible people in front of your face is very helpful, experiencing what goes on in their lives as it happens and being a part of that is a huge learning experience.
I would like to suggest, jkelly, that the result of your #4, that rules are "often counter-productive," and "that it's probably best to just avoid them," could be because of your #9, in that you don't have anything in common with poly-fi folk. Rules and discussion of boundaries seem to be big deal to that population because of primary relationships and family issues. Just a thought.
Rules being counter-productive
I think that people make rules in relationships for two related reasons. One is to avoid having to deal with jealousy: "I agree to never do x with someone else because it makes you jealous." The other is to try to protect an existing relationship: "I agree to never do x with someone else because it might lead to them becoming a bigger part of my life."
But, really, you'll never cover every single thing that might make someone feel threatened. Then, when someone gets upset, you wind up in a fight over whether or not a rule was broken. Every minute spent arguing over whether or not someone broke the rules, or how the rules should be interpreted, is a minute wasted on not dealing with the real issues.
If you've got rules, and never wind up having to fuss with them, it's almost certainly because you're reasonably secure in the relationship, can trust your partner to make good decisions in order to maintain a healthy, satisfying relationship with you, and are open to the changes that come as people move in and out of your lives. If you're already there, why have the rules?
I think that people make rules in relationships for two related reasons. One is to avoid having to deal with jealousy: "I agree to never do x with someone else because it makes you jealous." The other is to try to protect an existing relationship: "I agree to never do x with someone else because it might lead to them becoming a bigger part of my life."
But, really, you'll never cover every single thing that might make someone feel threatened. Then, when someone gets upset, you wind up in a fight over whether or not a rule was broken. Every minute spent arguing over whether or not someone broke the rules, or how the rules should be interpreted, is a minute wasted on not dealing with the real issues.
If you've got rules, and never wind up having to fuss with them, it's almost certainly because you're reasonably secure in the relationship, can trust your partner to make good decisions in order to maintain a healthy, satisfying relationship with you, and are open to the changes that come as people move in and out of your lives. If you're already there, why have the rules?
There's a difference between rules and boundaries, at least in my view of things. A boundary is a first-person policy: "I won't have sex unless I love the other person," or "I won't date someone who refuses to use a condom." A rule is a second person policy: "You can't have sex with Jimmy," or "You may not take Paula to our favorite restaurant." I think a polyfi family and a gaggle of swingers (which word should I have used?) can wind up with rules, or boundaries, or both.
Personally, I prefer the first-person restrictions, those on oneself, to those imposed on others. I think relationships tend to be healthier when you realize you can only control your own actions, particularly once you've opened the Pandora's Box of poly and thrown the default version of monogamy out the window.
lamnidae
New member
I am still relatively new to this (3 months), but for me, the biggest learning curve has been that I have to be willing to give what I am asking for. If I want my husband and L to listen to my feelings without becoming defensive or frustrated, then I have to be willing to do the same.
Another lovely thing learned has been just what a truly amazing man my husband is. I have watched him tackle seriously uncomfortable emotions that he was not expecting, and do it while consistently telling us that he is not going anywhere. I have learned how strong and present he can be, even when dealing with emotions that would send most people running for the hills.
Another lovely thing learned has been just what a truly amazing man my husband is. I have watched him tackle seriously uncomfortable emotions that he was not expecting, and do it while consistently telling us that he is not going anywhere. I have learned how strong and present he can be, even when dealing with emotions that would send most people running for the hills.
Yeah, absolutely. My #1 in the post above is an example. My partner hasn't imposed on me a rule that I can only date people who appreciate that we're together, but I've adopted it as a guideline myself because I've discovered that not doing so results in a ridiculous mess that I don't want to be involved in.
And these boundaries or whatever can totally involve your partner, too. Like, I can get all NRE and overlook potential problems. If I have a partner I can trust not to act out and behave badly because I'm dating someone new, I can then say "Oh, I know about myself that when I am in NRE I can have some blind spots, so I should pay extra attention to what my partner is saying about this dynamic, because they may be seeing things that I am missing." This is super-valuable.
redpepper
Active member
Relationships become more of a challenge when the two people involved are not experiencing the same dynamic, when one is merged with another person and the other isn't.
When one is responsible for the investments they have made in others in terms of time, committed emotions and money (such as a marriage with joint finances and children) and the other is not, then there is sometimes work to do in the way of understanding differences that would not be there if the two were in a similar dynamic.
When one is responsible for the investments they have made in others in terms of time, committed emotions and money (such as a marriage with joint finances and children) and the other is not, then there is sometimes work to do in the way of understanding differences that would not be there if the two were in a similar dynamic.
redpepper
Active member
Taking things with a grain of salt seems to be the best policy and eases the tension of drama. Things have a way of working themselves out with time and aren't as troublesome as they originally appear.
Partners of any kind need to be treated as equals, not as an addition to an already established relationship, in my opinion. This, I think, is the nature of loving.
If someone is coming into a relationship for the expressed desire of rejuvenating their sex life, or their troubled marriage, then this, to me, is not polyamory, but a method sometimes used by people in an "open marriage." It isn't about the love of that new person, but a desire to be bonded and reconnected with their original partner. I think it's important to realize this before unsuspecting new partners come into someone's life expecting to be loved as an equal, and hoping to have that person or couple also become a part of their lives, when really, that was not their intent in the first place, at all.
Partners of any kind need to be treated as equals, not as an addition to an already established relationship, in my opinion. This, I think, is the nature of loving.
If someone is coming into a relationship for the expressed desire of rejuvenating their sex life, or their troubled marriage, then this, to me, is not polyamory, but a method sometimes used by people in an "open marriage." It isn't about the love of that new person, but a desire to be bonded and reconnected with their original partner. I think it's important to realize this before unsuspecting new partners come into someone's life expecting to be loved as an equal, and hoping to have that person or couple also become a part of their lives, when really, that was not their intent in the first place, at all.
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